Official Sony Bdp-300/301 Owners Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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Blu-ray Players > Official Sony Bdp-300/301 Owners Thread
Garman's Avatar Garman 08:17 PM 06-20-2007
http://www.siliconimage.com/docs/Pro.../PSG_FINAL.pdf

I am not jumping out the window yet on this one.... I would love to see a picture of that chip taken from further away. There is no way of knowing what machine that chip is in at that close up of a shot.. I was told today that the BDP-S300 has HDMI 1.3, now if some one can prove this wrong I am all ears, but a close up shot isn't cutting it... I guess I will have to rip off the top myself... and take some real pics...

Garman's Avatar Garman 08:38 PM 06-20-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by risse View Post

Here is my Ques.

user has entered room

analyst Stefan. has entered room

Stefan.> user. Welcome to Sony Online Support. I'm Stefan. Please give me a moment to review your question.

Stefan.> I will be glad to assist you with your concern.

user> ok

Stefan.> In BDP-S300 Blu-Ray player has an HDMI version of 1.1 only.

Stefan.> And it will not support any DD true HD as well DTS HD format.

user> thanks

Stefan.> Is there anything else I may assist you with today?

Stefan.> If you need further assistance, feel free to contact us.

Stefan.> It was pleasure chatting with you today.

Well I concur with you... I got the same online tech support guy, he said it was his 5th question today..... BDP-S300 is only HDMI 1.1...... and that is it.... But what do you expect for a second generation player, hell the receivers are just starting to get released in HDMI and I don't even think my projector is compliant.... How really important is this on the video and audio side? Hell I am just happy with DTS and Dolby Digital!!

Guy also stated that all of Sony current models are 1.1/1.2 none are 1.3 till next year...
jnelson2000's Avatar jnelson2000 08:55 PM 06-20-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post

http://www.siliconimage.com/docs/Pro.../PSG_FINAL.pdf

I am not jumping out the window yet on this one.... I would love to see a picture of that chip taken from further away. There is no way of knowing what machine that chip is in at that close up of a shot.. I was told today that the BDP-S300 has HDMI 1.3, now if some one can prove this wrong I am all ears, but a close up shot isn't cutting it... I guess I will have to rip off the top myself... and take some real pics...

I just pulled apart a BDP-S300 and it does NOT have HDMI 1.3. The SO chip is the SiI9030-7

SiI9030
HDMI Ports 1

Audio Features
4xI2S inputs
DVD-Audio (2/6/8 ch, 32-192 kHz)
S/P-DIF input for PCM, Dolby Digital
DTS digital audio (32-96kHz sample rate)
2/6/8-ch, 32-192kHz
S/PDIF compressed audio

HDCP Features
HDCP encryption
Integrated keys

Other Features
Software compatible
with SiI 9190
Master I2C interface
3.3V Interface
DE Generator

Package Size
80-pin
TQFP
lrstevens421's Avatar lrstevens421 08:57 PM 06-20-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnelson2000 View Post

I just pulled apart a BDP-S300 and it does NOT have HDMI 1.3. The SO chip is the SiI9030

SiI9030
HDMI Ports 1

Audio Features
4xI2S inputs
DVD-Audio (2/6/8 ch, 32-192 kHz)
S/P-DIF input for PCM, Dolby Digital
DTS digital audio (32-96kHz sample rate)
2/6/8-ch, 32-192kHz
S/PDIF compressed audio

HDCP Features
HDCP encryption
Integrated keys

Other Features
Software compatible
with SiI 9190
Master I2C interface
3.3V Interface
DE Generator

Package Size
80-pin
TQFP

Wow, thanks for the info. I didn't have the heart to open mines
jnelson2000's Avatar jnelson2000 09:01 PM 06-20-2007
Of course the HD-XA2 has the SiI9134:

12/24/30/36-bit
RGB YCbCr
4:4:4, 16/20/24
/30/36-bit YCbCr
4:2:2, 8/10/12-bit
YCbCr 4:2:2

Dolby® True HD, DTS-HD and DVD-Audio
through 4xI2S inputs
Dedicated 8-pin interface for DSD and SACD
2-channel and 8-channel audio at 192kHz
IEC60958 2-channel PCM or IEC61937
compressed audio (Dolby® Digital, DTS, etc.)

36-bit color depth
and resolutions up
to 1080p @ 60Hz
or 720p/1080i @
120Hz
jnelson2000's Avatar jnelson2000 09:03 PM 06-20-2007
In case anyone cares, the drive is a Pioneer BDV-102SO 80pin IDE Drive
Garman's Avatar Garman 09:47 PM 06-20-2007
jnelson2000: Thanks for the info..... He also stated that the PS3 wasn't HDMI 1.3, but I have heard that it is..... hmmmm My question is what Blu-Ray units are using HDMI 1.3 and if so
does it really matter at this point?

Or I guess you can always buy this..... and not worry about it....

http://www.purelinkav.com/
bfdtv's Avatar bfdtv 11:35 PM 06-20-2007
Quote:


jnelson2000: Thanks for the info..... He also stated that the PS3 wasn't HDMI 1.3, but I have heard that it is..... hmmmm My question is what Blu-Ray units are using HDMI 1.3 and if so
does it really matter at this point?

The PS3 does have HDMI 1.3 hardware. It just uses an older version of the part (SiI9132) intended for game consoles. Silicon Image hasn't published specifications for that part. Some question whether it can output the undecoded TrueHD and DTS-HD MA bitstreams like the newer SiI9134, but haven't seen any definitive information on that subject.
kemiza's Avatar kemiza 11:56 PM 06-20-2007
Has anyone connected the Sony 300 using the 5.1 analog outputs? Will it pass uncompressed 5.1? What does it sound like compared to the HDMI output? Are there any limitations using the 5.1 analog outputs?
kemiza's Avatar kemiza 11:59 PM 06-20-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnelson2000 View Post

I just pulled apart a BDP-S300 and it does NOT have HDMI 1.3. The SO chip is the SiI9030-7

SiI9030
HDMI Ports 1

Audio Features
4xI2S inputs
DVD-Audio (2/6/8 ch, 32-192 kHz)
S/P-DIF input for PCM, Dolby Digital
DTS digital audio (32-96kHz sample rate)
2/6/8-ch, 32-192kHz
S/PDIF compressed audio

HDCP Features
HDCP encryption
Integrated keys

Other Features
Software compatible
with SiI 9190
Master I2C interface
3.3V Interface
DE Generator

Package Size
80-pin
TQFP

The Sony Bdp-300 isn't 1.3 compliant either? Is there any Blu ray player that is?
kemiza's Avatar kemiza 12:20 AM 06-21-2007
In about 2 years we'll finally get a Blu ray player you REALLY want. It will be 1.3. It will pass a signal to a DTHD/DTSHD receiver. It will load quickly. In the meantime electronic companies continue to give broken promises. They promise firmware updates that may or may not happen. If the player needs updating, thats like admitting its not ready to begin with. And if you do get the firmware update it won't be what you REALLY want it to do anyway. I doubt Sony will give you any FREE major firmware updates. If they did you wouldn't purchase another player from them in the future. Think about it....
bfdtv's Avatar bfdtv 12:57 AM 06-21-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by kemiza View Post

The Sony Bdp-300 isn't 1.3 compliant either? Is there any Blu ray player that is?

Aside from the PS3, only the Samsung BD-P1200.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kemiza View Post

Has anyone connected the Sony 300 using the 5.1 analog outputs? Will it pass uncompressed 5.1? What does it sound like compared to the HDMI output?

HDMI is the choice for highest quality output, as it is a direct digital path to the processing in receiver, which eliminates unnecessary D/A and A/D steps which can negatively impact sound quality. Newer HDMI receivers can apply their built-in bass management, room equalization, and surround modes to all signals input over HDMI.

Quote:
Are there any limitations using the 5.1 analog outputs?

You may lose your receiver's bass management, room equalization, and surround modes with 5.1 analog. You may need to use the more limited speaker (distance) and bass management settings in the player. It depends on your receiver.

Despite all that, 5.1 analog is often a noticeable improvement over optical when playing titles with LPCM and/or TrueHD tracks.
kemiza's Avatar kemiza 01:11 AM 06-21-2007
(Update 05-11-07): We originally reported that the presence of HDMI 1.3 might mean that the BD-P1200 can pass the bitstream of Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD-Master soundtracks to forthcoming compatible receivers, but according to Samsung it cannot. The BD-P1200, like all other Blu-ray players aside from the PlayStation 3, has no support for those highest-resolution next-gen audio formats.

It sounds like Samsung is in the same boat as Sony. And $300.00 higher.
bfdtv's Avatar bfdtv 01:13 AM 06-21-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by kemiza View Post

(Update 05-11-07): We originally reported that the presence of HDMI 1.3 might mean that the BD-P1200 can pass the bitstream of Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD-Master soundtracks to forthcoming compatible receivers, but according to Samsung it cannot. The BD-P1200, like all other Blu-ray players aside from the PlayStation 3, has no support for those highest-resolution next-gen audio formats.

It sounds like Samsung is in the same boat as the Sony. And $300.00 higher.

Well, that's the current situation, yes. Neither the BD-P1200 nor the PS3 supports undecoded bitstream output of DTS-HD MA or TrueHD with their current firmware. Neither Sony nor Samsung has given any indication whether that will change with a future firmware update.
kemiza's Avatar kemiza 01:17 AM 06-21-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Well, that's the current situation, yes. Neither the BD-P1200 nor the PS3 supports undecoded bitstream output of DTS-HD MA or TrueHD with their current firmware. Neither Sony nor Samsung has given any indication whether that will change with a future firmware update.

Like I said read post #465.
nakenergy's Avatar nakenergy 05:47 AM 06-21-2007
Quote:
Of course the HD-XA2 has the SiI9134:

12/24/30/36-bit
RGB YCbCr
4:4:4, 16/20/24
/30/36-bit YCbCr
4:2:2, 8/10/12-bit
YCbCr 4:2:2

Dolby® True HD, DTS-HD and DVD-Audio
through 4xI2S inputs
• Dedicated 8-pin interface for DSD and SACD
• 2-channel and 8-channel audio at 192kHz
• IEC60958 2-channel PCM or IEC61937
compressed audio (Dolby® Digital, DTS, etc.)

36-bit color depth
and resolutions up
to 1080p @ 60Hz
or 720p/1080i @
120Hz

Does the XA2 pass bitstream high def codecs to a compatible receiver? As for the Sony based on its Silicon Image chip it will only have on board decoders and can never pass bitstream but Samsung could if there is a firmware update since it has Si9134.
MrHifi's Avatar MrHifi 06:05 AM 06-21-2007
I used an XA2 for 27 days. It was a PIA to lod at 1080p. The 1080p mode is something Toshiba coulaged in the XA2. They change the 1080p to1080i then change that to 1080p. Believe me, it did not look any better than the 300 1080p 24 fps I am using. In fact the 300's HD picture was superior to anything I have ever seen on my 1080p HD81.

As far as the suggestion that I go analog with my system...When I use the analog outputs of the 300 orthe XA2, I lose volume control capability. My PrePro only has 6 Ch BYPASS and that takes volume away. Believe me when I say that the sound I heard via optical was outstanding. Until I buy a PrePro tat can process the HDMI input, I will stick with what I am using. Sometimes the theory that it should sound better does not work out beccause of practical matters. I love this machine. I will keep it if it keeps working. The menus are easy to wade through and the picture and sound are a significant step up for me. I am not sure what version of Dolby's many creations I am listening to when I watch Catch and Release but I do know it was superb via optical. It was far beter than the edgy DD from standard CD's and 16/48 DVD's. I have many discs I authored at 24/96. They work perfectly and sound superb.

Nakenergy,

The XA2 does not pass the advanced Dolby and DTS through te optical or coaxial connectors. Those have to transfer via HDMI or via 6 analog channels. The internal decoder processes the advanced Dolby's and DTS's and sendsthem as analog.. Unfortunately, it does not work correctly. The bass redirection and center phantom channel as well as the level setting were all screwed up in the one I returned. Te XA2 was a big disappointment because it just failed to do what was advertised.
joffer's Avatar joffer 07:43 AM 06-21-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by nakenergy View Post

Does the XA2 pass bitstream high def codecs to a compatible receiver?

no, it can't. HD DVDs are authored advanced. THEY HAVE TO BE DECODED IN THE PLAYER, doesn't matter if both devices are HDMI 6.5. I think blue-ray disks will also eventually be advanced authored. That's why i don't understand why everyone is so hung up on HDMI 1.3. It's mainly marketing hype. Decoding of the lossless codecs is the money feature that you should be wanting.
lrstevens421's Avatar lrstevens421 08:38 AM 06-21-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by joffer View Post

no, it can't. HD DVDs are authored advanced. THEY HAVE TO BE DECODED IN THE PLAYER, doesn't matter if both devices are HDMI 6.5. I think blue-ray disks will also eventually be advanced authored. That's why i don't understand why everyone is so hung up on HDMI 1.3. It's mainly marketing hype. Decoding of the lossless codecs is the money feature that you should be wanting.

I agree with you 100%, I think people just want to see the logos on their screen. I purchased the 805 for tons of reasons besides hdmi 1.3.
kemiza's Avatar kemiza 08:40 AM 06-21-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by joffer View Post

no, it can't. HD DVDs are authored advanced. THEY HAVE TO BE DECODED IN THE PLAYER, doesn't matter if both devices are HDMI 6.5. I think blue-ray disks will also eventually be advanced authored. That's why i don't understand why everyone is so hung up on HDMI 1.3. It's mainly marketing hype. Decoding of the lossless codecs is the money feature that you should be wanting.

My thoughts exactly.
RockStrongo's Avatar RockStrongo 09:50 AM 06-21-2007
Another small annoyance....forwarding (scanning) in a BD movie is very slow....takes a second or so to start. Odd.

I watched Donnie Brasco BD last night...no issues, great picture, good sound (not all that active, but its most likely the movie).
Clark Burk's Avatar Clark Burk 09:51 AM 06-21-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockStrongo View Post

Another small annoyance....forwarding (scanning) in a BD movie is very slow....takes a second or so to start. Odd.

The same as the BDP-S1.
whsbuss's Avatar whsbuss 09:58 AM 06-21-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrstevens421 View Post

I agree with you 100%, I think people just want to see the logos on their screen. I purchased the 805 for tons of reasons besides hdmi 1.3.

Me too. I just completed a 2nd Audyssey setup and I really love the quality sound the 805 produces. At least we'll be ready for HD bitstreams when the mfgrs make them.
mrgribbles's Avatar mrgribbles 10:01 AM 06-21-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by joffer View Post

no, it can't. HD DVDs are authored advanced. THEY HAVE TO BE DECODED IN THE PLAYER, doesn't matter if both devices are HDMI 6.5. I think blue-ray disks will also eventually be advanced authored. That's why i don't understand why everyone is so hung up on HDMI 1.3. It's mainly marketing hype. Decoding of the lossless codecs is the money feature that you should be wanting.

Even if they are not advanced authored the XA2 will still not pass the bitstream, despite what the manual implies.
nakenergy's Avatar nakenergy 10:40 AM 06-21-2007
Here is the Si9134 product brief -
The SiI9134 is an advanced HDMI 1.3 transmitter designed for next generation Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players and recorders that require high-definition audio and Deep Color capabilities. SiI9134 supports up to 1080p resolution at 60Hz and 36-bit color depth and Dolby® True HD and DTS-HD high bit-rate audio formats to deliver a rich digital video and audio experience.

Are you guys saying that even to pass bitstream to for e.g. 805 the player needs to decode? If I need 805 to decode what does the player need to do (besides having Si9134)? even for these advanced authored discs?
whsbuss's Avatar whsbuss 10:43 AM 06-21-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by nakenergy View Post

Here is the Si9134 product brief -
The SiI9134 is an advanced HDMI 1.3 transmitter designed for next generation Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players and recorders that require high-definition audio and Deep Color capabilities. SiI9134 supports up to 1080p resolution at 60Hz and 36-bit color depth and Dolby® True HD and DTS-HD high bit-rate audio formats to deliver a rich digital video and audio experience.

Are you guys saying that even to pass bitstream to for e.g. 805 the player needs to decode? If I need 805 to decode what does the player need to do (besides having Si9134)? even for these advanced authored discs?

The player needs to NOT decode but bitstream the HD audio to the AVR.
nakenergy's Avatar nakenergy 10:55 AM 06-21-2007
Quote:


The player needs to NOT decode but bitstream the HD audio to the AVR.

That's what I thought too and for that HDMI 1.3 (advanced transmitter) is needed.
MrHifi's Avatar MrHifi 11:01 AM 06-21-2007
You all are making this thing so complicated that even Dolby himself would have trouble deciphering what this machine can and can not do. I will take a shot at simplifying. Please correct my errors (as if I have to ask).

1. Audio encoded with Advanced Codecs like Dolby True HD are available via the HDMI connector. You need a receiver that will do the decoding.

2. Audio encoded with Advanced Codecs like Dolby True HD are available via the 6 channels of analog. These are decoded inside the player. All you need is a 6 channel volume control and 6 channels of amplification to use this connection method.

3. Audio encoded with Advanced Codecs like Dolby True HD are available via the optical and digital (SPDIF) connections but only in a diminished form, the "core". It should sound better than DD but not as good as what is available via HDMI and the analog cables.
whsbuss's Avatar whsbuss 11:17 AM 06-21-2007
For those using connected to the Onkyo 605/805 have you compared LPCM vs Bitstream on BD titles? Just wondering what sounds better(?) to your ears.
kelseyh's Avatar kelseyh 11:28 AM 06-21-2007
So I am using a Pioneer elite txs-72txv with hdmi version 1.1 for all my connections

will the player be able to decode dolby truehd, then send it out via hdmi into my reciever as pcm

thanks for the reply
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