DTS-HD MA and current Receivers/Players - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 207 Old 08-02-2007, 10:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Hunter67 View Post

Ok, now I know the DTS website is wrong, this page says that a HD DVD or Blu-Ray player with HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 can pass a DTS-HD HR bitstream to the receiver to be decoded.

http://www.dtsonline.com/dts-hd/dtsh...tion-audio.php

WTF?

They seriously need to fix all this confusion.

Why isn't that possible? If a 1.1/1.2 chip can pass PCM it has plenty pf bandwidth for HR.
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post #92 of 207 Old 08-02-2007, 10:13 PM
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Slim

You have posted this "wrong or lying" question at least 5 times already. Some other fellow members have already answered but ,since you don't give up, I will too: DTS is not wrong or lying. Your interpretation reading the DTS text is wrong. It confirms you can get DTS-HD or DTS-HD MA if the player has the capability to decode the signal internally or bitstream it to a DTS HD/MA capable receiver (the new ones are).

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post #93 of 207 Old 08-02-2007, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim GoodBooty View Post

Why isn't that possible? If a 1.1/1.2 chip can pass PCM it has plenty pf bandwidth for HR.

it says bitstream, not PCM. DTS-HD as bitstream takes 1.3

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post #94 of 207 Old 08-02-2007, 10:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by slimoli View Post

Slim

You have posted this "wrong or lying" question at least 5 times already. Some other fellow members have already answered but ,since you don't give up, I will too: DTS is not wrong or lying. Your interpretation reading the DTS text is wrong. It confirms you can get DTS-HD or DTS-HD MA if the player has the capability to decode the signal internally or bitstream it to a DTS HD/MA capable receiver (the new ones are).

Sergio

I keep posting the question because no one answers it. The DTS page says that a player with a HD chip will send MA to a receiver now. All I can go on is what they say. Since, you guys have no interest in finding out what is going on with the audio or the DTS website, I have taken measures to find out. If all you care about is your version of things, you can put me on ignore.
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post #95 of 207 Old 08-02-2007, 10:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joffer View Post

it says bitstream, not PCM. DTS-HD as bitstream takes 1.3

Why is this so hard? In this case Hunter even admits that the DTS site says 1.1/1.2. Are they wrong or are they lying?
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post #96 of 207 Old 08-02-2007, 11:24 PM
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Why is this so hard? In this case Hunter even admits that the DTS site says 1.1/1.2. Are they wrong or are they lying?

I don't understand what the debate is about. If the player is capable of decoding DTS-HD Master, it will do just that, and pass is along as PCM via HDMI (1.1, 1.2, 1.3). So they aren't lying. But you have to have a player that is capable of decoding it. The DTS website clearly states that. And, unfortunately, as of now, there isn't one capable of doing so.

The other option is the signal will have to be passed via HDMI 1.3 as bitstream for the player to decode it.
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post #97 of 207 Old 08-02-2007, 11:30 PM
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This thread is giving us old-timers a big ha-ha.
I can see the heartache comin'....

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post #98 of 207 Old 08-03-2007, 01:17 AM
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hopefully the PS3 will get the DTS-MA upgrade soon and we can see for sure
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post #99 of 207 Old 08-03-2007, 04:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I am not mis-understanding anything. The DTS website is saying that with a DTS-HD decoder You can pass High resolution OR Master Audio through 1.1/1.2 HDMI as PCM. With the new 2.2 firmware upgrade, the Panasonic player DOES decode DTS-HD High Resolution...(says so on their web site and others)...So according to the DTS website I originally posted, If you can pass HR, then you can pass MA...Their is nothing confusing about it. They are either wrong, or they are lying as fellow poster "GoodBooty" keeps pointing out...
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post #100 of 207 Old 08-03-2007, 05:45 AM
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Are there any players that decode DTS-MA out the analog outputs? If not now, how about on the horizon? (Should I buy the pahhy now or wait for the next gen, xmastime maybe?)

Thanks, Pete
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post #101 of 207 Old 08-03-2007, 07:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Club Chapin View Post

Are there any players that decode DTS-MA out the analog outputs? If not now, how about on the horizon? (Should I buy the pahhy now or wait for the next gen, xmastime maybe?)

Thanks, Pete

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post #102 of 207 Old 08-03-2007, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim GoodBooty View Post

The page says what it says, and what it says is clear. Either DTS is right, wrong, or lying. You choose. Stop insulting people, and tell us why.

People have been told why, multiple times by multiple people. Repeating it again is pointless if they didn't get it the first 10 times.

No one's willing to read the rest of the DTS web site either. They are focused on this one page which doesn't deal with the specific deferences between DTS-HD and DTS-HD MA.
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post #103 of 207 Old 08-03-2007, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by eulogytool View Post

I don't understand what the debate is about. If the player is capable of decoding DTS-HD Master, it will do just that, and pass is along as PCM via HDMI (1.1, 1.2, 1.3). So they aren't lying. But you have to have a player that is capable of decoding it. The DTS website clearly states that. And, unfortunately, as of now, there isn't one capable of doing so.

The other option is the signal will have to be passed via HDMI 1.3 as bitstream for the player to decode it.

This is EXACTLY correct. Those of you with the Panny, call them and ask if the latest software is decoding DTS-HD MA.
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post #104 of 207 Old 08-03-2007, 12:02 PM
 
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Here is the scoop.
The site says exactly what HD and I said. However, it is wrong. The the text and the chips should say DTS-HD MA instead of DTS-HD (HR). It is older info and doesn't reflect the devices that are currently available. The site itself is in the process of being updated and this information will also be changed to reflect the way the decoders actually works.
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post #105 of 207 Old 08-03-2007, 01:14 PM
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Listen guys...It really does work. I have had HD-DVD since the beginning...(Hell I might have bought the first one)... I have also been with Blu-Ray since the beginning...When HD-DVD went to DD+, I was there. When TRueHD came next, I was there...I could tell the difference on Phamtom Of The Opera...TRUST ME!...On Xmen (BR) there is NO MISTAKING it works! When you go through the audio menu on the Panny and bounce back and forth from MA to 5.1 Dolby the difference is astounding and the rears have different sounds coming out than when on 5.1 DD. Also, when switched to DTS-HD all seven speaker lights come on the front of the Pioneer receiver panal... At this point, I don't care WHO believes me...I'm enjoying it. I can't believe someone else with a Panny player with 2.2 and a Pioneer Elite HDMI receiver hasn't tried and replied to this thread. I don't think it's such a big deal...TrueHD is here for Blu-Ray and DTS-HD MA isn't very different. BUT IT WORKS!...

Well Secrets heard DTS MA on Entrapment -

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...tml#Entrapment
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post #106 of 207 Old 08-03-2007, 01:43 PM
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Panasonic themselves have made it clear that BD10 decodes only DTS-HD HR. The chip used for audio is incapable of decoding DTS-HD MA. HR and MA are two completely different codecs. Both formats consist of a DTS core plus extension.

I'm still pissed off at Panasonic, because their early PR materials made no distinction between the two. By doing that they allowed many consumers to think that a future firmware upgrade will include decoding of both HR and MA. Everyone who's been reading the Panny thread knows now this is not the case, and neither BD10 nor BD10A will ever decode DTS-HD MA. This has been general knowledge for months, so I was quite astonished to see this thread.

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post #107 of 207 Old 08-03-2007, 01:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nakenergy View Post

Well Secrets heard DTS MA on Entrapment -

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...tml#Entrapment

Really? How did he do that?
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post #108 of 207 Old 08-03-2007, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nakenergy View Post

Well Secrets heard DTS MA on Entrapment -

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...tml#Entrapment

Secrets reviewed DTS-HD not DTS-HD-MA. They list it as DTS-HD-MA because that is what is offered on the release. I'm sure Kris Deering himself will tell you he hasn't yet had a chance to hear DTS-HD-MA.

Edit: I've sent a PM to Kris inviting him to comment on the Entrapment audio review.

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post #109 of 207 Old 08-03-2007, 02:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by WirelessGuru View Post

Secrets reviewed DTS-HD not DTS-HD-MA. They list it as DTS-HD-MA because that is what is offered on the release. I'm sure Kris Deering himself will tell you he hasn't yet had a chance to hear DTS-HD-MA.

Oops!
Quote:


The DTS-HD MA mix is very good and full of dynamics.

Poorly worded perhaps.
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post #110 of 207 Old 08-03-2007, 02:12 PM
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The DTS-HD MA mix is very good and full of dynamics.

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Originally Posted by Slim GoodBooty View Post

Oops!
Poorly worded perhaps.

Note he put the word "mix" at the end. Possibly inferring the downmix of DTS-HD-MA?

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post #111 of 207 Old 08-03-2007, 02:22 PM
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Kris was reviwing a disk, not a player or receiver. His comments are about the DTS MA TRACK on the disk, most likely downmixed to DTSHD or DTS core.

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post #112 of 207 Old 08-03-2007, 02:35 PM
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Please note that HR and MA are both "DTS-HD" audio codecs. We shouldn't talk of DTS-HD and DTS-HD MA, and use DTS-HD to refer to DTS-HD HR; that will only lead to more confusion. In the interest of clarity, I suggest we use "DTS-HR" and "DTS-MA", or simply "HR" and "MA." Or the full name, of course.

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post #113 of 207 Old 08-03-2007, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimoli View Post

most likely downmixed to DTSHD or DTS core.

I could be wrong about this, but posting with 99% certainty: DTS-HD MA cannot be downmixed to DTS-HD HR. If the player is unable to decode MA, you will get DTS core, and that's it. You see, for downmixing to HR, the player would first have to decode the MA track to have something to downmix. And since the player is unable to decode MA...

Also, it takes a bit of horsepower to decode DTS-HR alone. It would take quite a bit more horsepower to encode something into DTS-HR in realtime.

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post #114 of 207 Old 08-03-2007, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter67 View Post

Ok, now I know the DTS website is wrong, this page says that a HD DVD or Blu-Ray player with HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 can pass a DTS-HD HR bitstream to the receiver to be decoded.

http://www.dtsonline.com/dts-hd/dtsh...tion-audio.php

WTF?

They seriously need to fix all this confusion.

You missed the important part that it needs to have "Digital Out" logo.
"High Definition Player with DTS-HD Digital Out to New AV Receiver with DTS-HD High Resolution Audio"
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post #115 of 207 Old 08-03-2007, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

Please note that HR and MA are both "DTS-HD" audio codecs. We shouldn't talk of DTS-HD and DTS-HD MA, and use DTS-HD to refer to DTS-HD HR; that will only lead to more confusion. In the interest of clarity, I suggest we use "DTS-HR" and "DTS-MA", or simply "HR" and "MA." Or the full name, of course.

I've been trying to tell the OP and Slim that here !
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post #116 of 207 Old 08-03-2007, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

I could be wrong about this, but posting with 99% certainty: DTS-HD MA cannot be downmixed to DTS-HD HR. If the player is unable to decode MA, you will get DTS core, and that's it. You see, for downmixing to HR, the player would first have to decode the MA track to have something to downmix. And since the player is unable to decode MA...

Also, it takes a bit of horsepower to decode DTS-HR alone. It would take quite a bit more horsepower to encode something into DTS-HR in realtime.

Amen

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post #117 of 207 Old 08-03-2007, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

I could be wrong about this, but posting with 99% certainty: DTS-HD MA cannot be downmixed to DTS-HD HR. If the player is unable to decode MA, you will get DTS core, and that's it. You see, for downmixing to HR, the player would first have to decode the MA track to have something to downmix. And since the player is unable to decode MA...

Yeah, I think you are right about this. As you mentioned, I think the problem here lies with DTS' own ambiguois and confusing naming terminology. It's been causing miscommunication around here since it was announced, and now it's creating interpretation confusion within their own documentation.

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post #118 of 207 Old 08-03-2007, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHDMan View Post

Listen guys...It really does work. I have had HD-DVD since the beginning...(Hell I might have bought the first one)... I have also been with Blu-Ray since the beginning...When HD-DVD went to DD+, I was there. When TRueHD came next, I was there...I could tell the difference on Phamtom Of The Opera...TRUST ME!...On Xmen (BR) there is NO MISTAKING it works! When you go through the audio menu on the Panny and bounce back and forth from MA to 5.1 Dolby the difference is astounding and the rears have different sounds coming out than when on 5.1 DD. Also, when switched to DTS-HD all seven speaker lights come on the front of the Pioneer receiver panal... At this point, I don't care WHO believes me...I'm enjoying it. I can't believe someone else with a Panny player with 2.2 and a Pioneer Elite HDMI receiver hasn't tried and replied to this thread. I don't think it's such a big deal...TrueHD is here for Blu-Ray and DTS-HD MA isn't very different. BUT IT WORKS!...

There's no separate DD 5.1 track on Xmen3. How could you compare DTS-HD MA to it?
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post #119 of 207 Old 08-03-2007, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHDMan View Post

Here are the pics...





All seven speakers lit up...



Normally with any other BR or HD-DVD it looks like this...


1. Xmen3 is a 6.1 DTS-HD MA track. How did you get all 7.1 channel lights on the receiver?
2. Why do you have only 5.1 lights with "PCM + PLIIx" mode? You'd normally use this to get sound to all 7 speakers right? Isn't this what ProLogic IIx is supposed to do?

Thanks for your contribution.
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post #120 of 207 Old 08-03-2007, 03:38 PM
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Just for clarification, I did not have the ability to decode the DTS-HD MA soundtrack for any Fox title. That is the track I selected but like everyone else, I was listening to a mix down to standard DTS.

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