Sony: Blu-ray set-top players out-selling HD DVD - AVS Forum

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Rich Peterson's Avatar Rich Peterson
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Video Business article:

Quote:


By Susanne Ault -- Video Business, 9/5/2007
SEPT. 5 | DENVERBlu-ray Disc set-top players within the last 12 weeks have begun out-selling HD DVD set-top players, according to recent NPD Group research cited by Sony Electronics.

Sony touted the reversal of HD DVD's long-running stand-alone dominance during its Wednesday press conference at CEDIA.

Sony VP Chris Fawcett declined to provide exact market share percentages of the two sides.

He said the change occurred mostly due to the introduction of Sony's $499 player.


Steverhcp02's Avatar Steverhcp02
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id like to see the NPD data they are citing. This is a bit surprising, imo.
mrseder's Avatar mrseder
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Nice!
gooki's Avatar gooki
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Oh so funny.
Slim GoodBooty's Avatar Slim GoodBooty
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Isn't this the same thing that Talk (I believe) admitted was revenue not units?
MichaelHDDVD's Avatar MichaelHDDVD
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"Sony VP Chris Fawcett declined to provide exact market share percentages of the two sides."

I wonder why they are probably using the revenue bs which is torn apart in this thread
Urza's Avatar Urza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim GoodBooty View Post

Isn't this the same thing that Talk (I believe) admitted was revenue not units?


Ding Ding Ding!
gooki's Avatar gooki
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Alternatively it's possible they used sold to retailers not sold to customers numbers.

Which would make some sense if you consider the rollout of the A3 may have ment no A2 orders, though personally I doubt they'd be silly enough to use such figures.
Customgamer1's Avatar Customgamer1
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THIS JUST IN!!!!!

Sony is saying this. I guess since they can only win so many times this is the new way to do it...

I loved this:

"Sony VP Chris Fawcett declined to provide exact market share percentages of the two sides."

Well Sony if you can't prove it, it's just a lie. You know you are not out selling HD-DVD with those prices.
Urza's Avatar Urza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Customgamer1 View Post

THIS JUST IN!!!!!

Sony is saying this. I guess since they can only win so many times this is the new way to do it...

I loved this:

"Sony VP Chris Fawcett declined to provide exact market share percentages of the two sides."

Well Sony if you can't prove it, it's just a lie. You know you are not out selling HD-DVD with those prices.

Exactly. Why would you not want to share the Data just to brag? LOL
GregApple's Avatar GregApple
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Great news for BD.

Now Blu-ray is beating HD-DVD in every single sales metric.

Software, Hardware, Standalones, Burners

everything.


This shows the consumer cares about more than just price.
Urza's Avatar Urza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregApple View Post

Great news for BD.

Now Blu-ray is beating HD-DVD in every single sales metric.

Software, Hardware, Standalones, Burners

everything.


This shows the consumer cares about more than just price.


Dude, did you just wake up? It's REVENUE, and Talkstr8 already mentioned this. Ever wonder why the Sony rep declines to show the figures? They actually DECLINE if you can believe that.
raaj's Avatar raaj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post

Video Business article:
Quote:


By Susanne Ault -- Video Business, 9/5/2007
SEPT. 5 | DENVERBlu-ray Disc set-top players within the last 12 weeks have begun out-selling HD DVD set-top players, according to recent NPD Group research cited by Sony Electronics.

Sony touted the reversal of HD DVD's long-running stand-alone dominance during its Wednesday press conference at CEDIA.

Sony VP Chris Fawcett declined to provide exact market share percentages of the two sides.

He said the change occurred mostly due to the introduction of Sony's $499 player.

Eek !! Have these people no shame at all?

Winners don't need to hide behind numbers. Looks like they are not as secure as they would let us believe.
Urza's Avatar Urza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

Eek !! Have these people no shame at all?

Winners don't need to hide behind numbers. Looks like they are not as secure as they would let us believe.

Hehe, yea my fav line


"Sony VP Chris Fawcett declined to provide exact market share percentages of the two sides"

Maybe because your talking about Revenue perhaps?

Boggles the mind. If I was crushing HDDVD, I would have a 1000 point font poster all over the place proclaiming it.
nithr's Avatar nithr
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seems more believable than those dodgy npd numbers tbh
bboisvert's Avatar bboisvert
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I feel fairly confident in saying that this is ********.

But I welcome any actual detailed sales data that proves otherwise.
Baccusboy's Avatar Baccusboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urza View Post

Dude, did you just wake up? It's REVENUE, and Talkstr8 already mentioned this. Ever wonder why the Sony rep declines to show the figures? They actually DECLINE if you can believe that.

And why don't YOU wake up?

Some people have theorized that it's revenue, and now you're believing it and stating it as fact.

We don't have the details as to what the numbers mean.
Neo1965's Avatar Neo1965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urza View Post

Dude, did you just wake up? It's REVENUE, and Talkstr8 already mentioned this. Ever wonder why the Sony rep declines to show the figures? They actually DECLINE if you can believe that.

This is the original quote :


Note the slide said BD leads both market share value (revenue) & units

Even parity on units would be surprising, but it might be simply a seesaw battle that keeps changing hands, so the data could be just shortly after the S300 launched and before Toshiba had to resume the HD-A2 sale.

The 63% : 30% was clearly revenue, not units. But $499/$230 almost looks like 63/30 doesn't it?
AodhFFXI's Avatar AodhFFXI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nithr View Post

seems more believable than those dodgy npd numbers tbh

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, rhetorical or serious, both Toshiba and Sony are using NPD numbers, the difference is that recently Sony has been using dollar share instead of unit share to say they are winning. The problem is that if you spend $1,000 or $100 on a player, you're still only buying one player, you're not outselling the competition 10:1.
bboisvert's Avatar bboisvert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baccusboy View Post

We don't have the details as to what the numbers mean.

That should be your #1 signal that this is just smoke-and-mirrors PR B.S. If there was actual data, they'd quote it. Again and again.


BD stand-alones are not outselling HD DVD stand-alones. Plain and simple. If Sony feels otherwise, they can feel free to prove it. That means actual data.


I don't dispute the 2:1 ratio because it is backed up by pretty reasonable stats. This, however, is crap.
AodhFFXI's Avatar AodhFFXI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baccusboy View Post

And why don't YOU wake up?

Some people have theorized that it's revenue, and now you're believing it and stating it as fact.

We don't have the details as to what the numbers mean.

Talk already admitted they were revenue share not unit share.
Michael Mullis's Avatar Michael Mullis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baccusboy View Post

We don't have the details as to what the numbers mean.

DING DING! So for all we know this is a ******** number in and of itself.

BTW, Toshiba pretty much said the same thing at their presser......EXCEPT:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=903461
Quote:


8. According to NPD data, BD stand alone players have 16% market share, HD DVD enjoys a 33% market share, while SD DVD holds 51%.

Apparently the HD DVD group had no problem giving marketshare percentages.

Nice try BDA Army. Nice try.
AodhFFXI's Avatar AodhFFXI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo1965 View Post

This is the original quote :


Note the slide said BD leads both market share value (revenue) & units

Even parity on units would be surprising, but it might be simply a seesaw battle that keeps changing hands, so the data could be just shortly after the S300 launched and before Toshiba had to resume the HD-A2 sale.

The 63% : 30% was clearly revenue, not units. But $499/$230 almost looks like 63/30 doesn't it?

Spidersense is tingling, they don't actually say that's standalone market share, just player, and possibly PS3 is included.

Edit: Just as a note, 99% of the time no company will actually flat out lie, but they will exclude and/or distort context to create the perception that something is not what it truly is. Talking players without saying standalone only then including the PS3 sales and highlighting the $499 player alters the perception of what the numbers mean without justifying them or giving proper context.
anotheraviator's Avatar anotheraviator
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Me thinks they are including the PS3 in those figures ONCE again.
Nowhere does it say "stand alone"
Neo1965's Avatar Neo1965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AodhFFXI View Post

Spidersense is tingling, they don't actually say that's standalone market share, just player, and possibly PS3 is included.

The chart says CE players. If PS3 was included, the ratio would be 90:10 (something like that).

Don't forget there was a lull when the HD-A2 sale stopped and the S300 was introduced, the HD-A2 sale resumed suddenly when the sales dried up after the sale ended. That was also the time when the reports of S300 selling in B&M started. The next NPD data could show the lead change again, but they look like it's closer than most assumed (and this is with < 1/2 the street price for HD-A2)
anotheraviator's Avatar anotheraviator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo1965 View Post

The chart says CE players. If PS3 was included, the ratio would be 95:5

Facts and links please.
MichaelHDDVD's Avatar MichaelHDDVD
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This is just another example of Sony desperation

"Crap you mean people are no longer believing the Universal going neutral rumor we told beatboy to spread!!! Oh no! Oh wait I got it! We'll have a press release saying HD DVD dead!!! Wait people aren't believing that as much any more because Paramount and Dreamworks both dropped our format? #$%&!!!! WHAT DO WE DO!"
anotheraviator's Avatar anotheraviator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AodhFFXI View Post

Spidersense is tingling, they don't actually say that's standalone market share, just player, and possibly PS3 is included.

..and just because the put that fancy shmancy quote about sub $500 stand alone BD player doesn't mean the figures are actually including PS3.

It's one of those fantastic marketing tricks to make things look much better than they really are.

Do you think Sony was about to show a slide with them lagging? They also knew the PS3 questions would come up, so they decided to add that biiiiiiiig sentance about sub $500 players creating a grand market for BD.... and then show a pie chart that includes PS3.

That's why they "decline" to comment how the percentages were derived.
AodhFFXI's Avatar AodhFFXI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo1965 View Post

The chart says CE players. If PS3 was included, the ratio would be 90:10 (something like that).

I believe the PS3 is a Consumer Electronic product which plays Blu-rays. The PS3 as Players number can be basically anything they want from 0-100% depending on the context.
Slim GoodBooty's Avatar Slim GoodBooty
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Isn't the PS3 a "sub $500 BD player"?

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