Marantz to launch BD player: BD8002 - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 724 Old 09-17-2008, 08:24 AM
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I thought a couple of folks recently tested the 3800 for LFE bug and it is still there..

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post #452 of 724 Old 09-17-2008, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I thought a couple of folks recently tested the 3800 for LFE bug and it is still there..

No, the LFE bug was fixed. You are referring to a user who was doing bass management in the player and outputting PCM via HDMI and had a -5dB in LFE (this is expected). If he had done Source Direct ON for HDMI, he would have been OK.

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post #453 of 724 Old 09-17-2008, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

No, the LFE bug was fixed. You are referring to a user who was doing bass management in the player and outputting PCM via HDMI and had a -5dB in LFE (this is expected). If he had done Source Direct ON for HDMI, he would have been OK.

So, when 'Source Direct' is OFF, the bug is present.... But when "source Direct' is ON, the LFE bug is elminated??

If so, I'll try it out and see.

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post #454 of 724 Old 09-17-2008, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

So, when 'Source Direct' is OFF, the bug is present.... But when "source Direct' is ON, the LFE bug is elminated??

If so, I'll try it out and see.

When Source Direct is OFF, the HDMI output is treated like the analog outs because bass management is applied. All bets are off when you apply bass management in the player. There is no "bug" when Source Direct is OFF.

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post #455 of 724 Old 09-17-2008, 10:57 AM
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Ok now i am getting confused.

I have HDMI 1.1 (7.1 receiver) and was going to use PCM through HDMI (using HDMI 1.3 capable cable) from the BD8002 to let the player do the decoding of the Dolby True HD and DTS Master Audio. What settings should I be using for best audio? Would I be better off using analogs vs. PCM through HDMI.
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post #456 of 724 Old 09-17-2008, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awre View Post

Ok now i am getting confused.

I have HDMI 1.1 (7.1 receiver) and was going to use PCM through HDMI (using HDMI 1.3 capable cable) from the BD8002 to let the player do the decoding of the Dolby True HD and DTS Master Audio. What settings should I be using for best audio? Would I be better off using analogs vs. PCM through HDMI.

Best audio for your situation is:

HDMI Multi (LPCM)
Source Direct ON

This way, your receiver will handle all the bass management and speaker settings. This method assumes that your receiver doesn't have an LFE bug using PCM over HDMI. Some earlier receivers had this bug and did not provide the proper +10dB boost to LFE.

There's absolutely no reason for you to use analog when HDMI is available on your receiver (assuming it can handle multichannel LPCM over HDMI correctly).

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post #457 of 724 Old 09-17-2008, 07:56 PM
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EWL5 - I thought you said the 8002 has the LFE bug via its PCM output.

I have to admit that I don't fully understand the LFE bug yet. I am traveling a lot right now and figured on getting that sorted once I am forced to stay home for a while coming up in October...so sorry for being so clueless.

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post #458 of 724 Old 09-18-2008, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave7 View Post

EWL5 - I thought you said the 8002 has the LFE bug via its PCM output.

I have to admit that I don't fully understand the LFE bug yet. I am traveling a lot right now and figured on getting that sorted once I am forced to stay home for a while coming up in October...so sorry for being so clueless.

I know Denon issued the fix for the LFE bug for the 3800 but I'm not sure if Marantz issued the same fix for the 8002. Since they're the same company, I'm sure a fix is on its way if it hasn't arrived already. For your reference, the Denon fix was issued Aug 1 so it's been well over a month.

I see some updates were posted on the Marantz website dated 8/21 but I can't confirm it fixes the LFE bug not owning the Marantz model myself.

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post #459 of 724 Old 09-18-2008, 07:56 AM
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The 8/21 update looks to be just remote control codes for the RS-232 control. We haven't yet gotten anything more substantial from what I can tell.

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post #460 of 724 Old 09-20-2008, 12:40 PM
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Thanks, I will go with this and hope that it works well. Appreciate all these forums very much and each day find I am learning more and more little by little. You all do a great job and it is not unappreciated!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

Best audio for your situation is:

HDMI Multi (LPCM)
Source Direct ON

This way, your receiver will handle all the bass management and speaker settings. This method assumes that your receiver doesn't have an LFE bug using PCM over HDMI. Some earlier receivers had this bug and did not provide the proper +10dB boost to LFE.

There's absolutely no reason for you to use analog when HDMI is available on your receiver (assuming it can handle multichannel LPCM over HDMI correctly).

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post #461 of 724 Old 09-22-2008, 02:32 PM
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I posted this in the 3800 owner's thread but it should apply 100% to you Marantz owners as well (well...maybe 90% if Marantz hasn't fixed the LFE bug. ). Happy Reading!

Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

sharok/thebland,

There's enough confusion concerning the LFE bug and the -5dB when Source Direct is OFF that I think now is the right time to post. Lee (RBFC), if you can add a link to your first post, this may help a lot of current and future owners.

The Best Audio Choice for YOUR Situation
With this post, I hope that everyone can make an informed decision as to which audio choice would be the best choice for your particular situation:

Bitstreaming (ie. HDMI Multi (Normal))
1) You own an HDMI 1.3 AVR/prepro capable of decoding ALL HBR codecs
2) You don't really care for secondary audio and don't watch PIP commentary or special features much
3) You want decoding of DTS-ES and/or Dolby Digital EX tracks
4) You want the simplest audio setting possible from the player (receiver will take care of speaker delay, level, bass management, etc.)
5) Your AVR/prepro has decent automatic calibration and you would rather make use of those settings instead of manually setting delay, level, etc.

Player decodes over HDMI with Source Direct ON (ie. HDMI Multi (LPCM)+ BD Audio Mode set at Mix Audio Output)
1) You want the player to decode the audio.
2) You own an HDMI receiver that is at least HDMI 1.1 and can handle MCH LPCM over HDMI.
3) You enjoy special features and want the player to do the mixing of primary and secondary audio (retaining lossless quality).
4) You want the receiver to handle speaker delay, level, bass management, etc.
Note: This mode used to have the LFE bug but is fixed with latest firmware.


Player decodes over HDMI with Source Direct OFF
Same as above except:
1) You want the player to handle speaker delay, level, bass management, etc.
2) This mode WILL create a -15dB LFE level relative to the other channels due to redirected LFE when any speakers are selected as SMALL (If all speakers are LARGE, then you are similar to Source Direct ON with the exception that delay/channel levels are still taken). You have essentially created a mode similar to analog but this is in the digital realm! LFE must be boosted by +15dB. Since the max the 3800 can boost in LFE is +10, you have to further boost in the receiver/prepro by an additional +5dB! This is not a bug since you will experience this in analog as well!
3) Your AVR/prepro has no further capability of boosting LFE (ie. analog is a passthrough with no LFE boosting capability). If this is the case, you will want to set all speakers to LARGE as the max that the 3800 can boost is +10dB and NOT +15dB! Setting speakers to LARGE will prevent redirected LFE and the additional -5dB drop.

Player decodes and outputs over MCH Analog Outs and Source Direct OFF
1) People who own non-HDMI receivers or can't handle MCH LPCM over HDMI.
2) The DAC's in the player are much better than the receiver's DAC's.
3) As explained in point 2 above, you WILL get -15dB drop if ANY speakers are set to SMALL due to redirected LFE. This has been a limitation of analog since the early days of analog decoding. People are just discovering this quirk because we've been digital for so long! Same necessity to further boost +5 in the AVR/prepro applies since the player maxes out at +10dB for LFE. If that additional +5 boost is a problem, set all speakers to LARGE.

Player decodes and outputs over MCH Analog Outs and Source Direct ON
1) Similar to above with the exception that your AVR/prepro has the capability to post process over the MCH analog outs. It is rare to be able to redigitize and apply delay, BM, etc. after the player's DAC but these processors do exist. Most analog users will want Source Direct OFF.

Most of these findings I've discovered on my own but I wasn't able to connect the similarities b/w HDMI Source Direct OFF and analog MCH out until I read Kris' review of the 3800:

"All 7.1 channels feature full bass management and level controls for PCM signals sent via the HDMI or analog outputs. In my experience, level adjustments over HDMI are unique to the DVD-3800BDCI."

That little passage made me realize that for better or worse, Denon gave the user much more flexibility than anyone could possibly imagine. It also gave the possiblity of users like sharok discovering the "-5dB hole" that is normal to analog users but unique to HDMI until you consider that with Source Direct OFF, it acts exactly like analog!

So in conclusion, this "-5dB hole" is easily accounted for by:

1) Boosting LFE by +5 in the AVR/prepro
2) Setting all speakers to LARGE (prevents redirected LFE and the -5dB)
3) Simply turning Source Direct to ON and letting the receiver do all the work.

Remember, this "-5dB hole" is normal when redirected LFE is involved. It is not like the common LFE bug but we took notice because what we should have expected in analog was happening to HDMI with Source Direct OFF.

Edit: If you would like further reading on the common -10dB for LFE vs the -15dB LFE w/redirected bass, please read the first post of this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748147

Remember, that it comes from the analog angle but fits very well with what is happening with HDMI and Source Direct OFF (with at least one speaker set to SMALL of course).

Edit: Note that the -15dB referenced above for LFE is due to the fact that LFE is recorded -10dB to begin with and there is a further -5dB drop from redirected LFE. If Source Direct is ON, then LFE will be the conventional -10dB lower than the other channels as expected; if you are doing HDMI LPCM, then the +10dB must be provided by the AVR/prepro.


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post #462 of 724 Old 09-23-2008, 09:37 AM
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Getting my BD8002 on Saturday. Looking forward to this and hoping no problems between this and my Marantz SR9600. Does anyone know the latest firmware update (if any)--just want to be sure I have latest update when it comes Saturday.

Thanks EWL5, theBland, John, et al for all your good input, help and assistance. Will let you all know how it works next week.
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post #463 of 724 Old 09-26-2008, 09:40 PM
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Hi I just got my new BD-8002 today been waiting awhile for this to come in. I have to do alot more reading here for more info , I have read through the user guide abit, I feel I have a good idea what needs to be done, But I thought I could cheat alittle and ask for any input for my setup before I try & set it up ( & mess it up LOL) Heres my set up I'm running , THANKS FOR ANY HELP ! .....PS. I'm really happy now..

Marantz- SR-7002 Running HDMI
speaker setup is set for Small for all & sub on
Crossover set at 60HZ

Klipsch - REFF speakers - 5.1 setup- RF-82 - RC-64 RS-42 RW-10

Marantz BD-8002 (blu-ray) running HDMI (want bitstream out for the SR-7002 to do the decoding)

TV. HP 42" Plasma- running HDMI (input from SR-7002) 1080I
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post #464 of 724 Old 09-27-2008, 11:15 AM
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well I got it all set up this morning after reading all night , It looks really good and the audio is working for the new codecs going to the recv.

BUT.. I read that i need to turn off the DEEP COLOR , Mine is grayed out and set in AUTO , It won't let me turn it off , Any help ? Please LMk thanks so much .

As for any one that has set the picture color , I changed my IRE to .0 , but has any one made any futher adjustments in pictures setting . Like brightness contrast ETC... just curious if anyone has made the pict. better.

Any other help would be thankfull ...
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post #465 of 724 Old 09-28-2008, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman6662 View Post

well I got it all set up this morning after reading all night , It looks really good and the audio is working for the new codecs going to the recv.

BUT.. I read that i need to turn off the DEEP COLOR , Mine is grayed out and set in AUTO , It won't let me turn it off , Any help ? Please LMk thanks so much .

As for any one that has set the picture color , I changed my IRE to .0 , but has any one made any futher adjustments in pictures setting . Like brightness contrast ETC... just curious if anyone has made the pict. better.

Any other help would be thankfull ...

In general, aside from the IRE change, you should leave all other video settings on the player alone and make the adjustments to your display (ie. Brightness, Contrast, etc). Use something like DVE: HD Basics BD edition to calibrate.

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post #466 of 724 Old 09-28-2008, 07:46 AM
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Well, finally have my 8002 and very happy with it although I could not use HDMI and get 7:1 through my Marantz SR9600 -- it would only pass 5:1 PCM via HDMI so I ended up using analogs and I now get full audio capabilities. In talking to Marantz previously they had assured me I would be able to pass 7:1 via HDMI - PCM. Am not sure they understand their own products.

I understand the latest firmware version is 1.103 and my dealer will get me latest update but I can not find way to check my current version. How do I check my software version ???

Using my Sony 52XBR4 and DefTech Mythos speakers I am very pleased so far with both video and audio quality as well as build quality of the 8002.
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post #467 of 724 Old 09-28-2008, 07:58 AM
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FWIW - I definitely get 7.1 via HDMI in both bitstreamed and PCM outputs.

I'd also like to know about any firmware versions/updates.

Dave
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post #468 of 724 Old 09-28-2008, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

In general, aside from the IRE change, you should leave all other video settings on the player alone and make the adjustments to your display (ie. Brightness, Contrast, etc). Use something like DVE: HD Basics BD edition to calibrate.

I was thinking the same , But also tried a few things ,but put them back .LOL I figured that it would only be for that movie anyways. But I did read about the enhance mode will try this later.

What about you'r deep color did you get to trun it off or is it grayed out in the menu ? LMK on this
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post #469 of 724 Old 09-28-2008, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awre View Post

Well, finally have my 8002 and very happy with it although I could not use HDMI and get 7:1 through my Marantz SR9600 -- it would only pass 5:1 PCM via HDMI so I ended up using analogs and I now get full audio capabilities. In talking to Marantz previously they had assured me I would be able to pass 7:1 via HDMI - PCM. Am not sure they understand their own products.

I understand the latest firmware version is 1.103 and my dealer will get me latest update but I can not find way to check my current version. How do I check my software version ???

Using my Sony 52XBR4 and DefTech Mythos speakers I am very pleased so far with both video and audio quality as well as build quality of the 8002.

Congrats on your new player also. I just got mine too. Alot to play with . Not sure of my frimware version either , But my unit has a build date on it August 2008 so it's only one month old .so I hope it has the most current frimware , I know a few things I tried to do I cant do , but I was hoping they fixed them so you don't need to do it. Lmk if you find out anything on it .
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post #470 of 724 Old 09-29-2008, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soloman View Post

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your response. The DV9600 has a "pure mode" which turns off the video section when playing audio. You can hear the difference. I think I may have to pass on this player, which is is a shame because I have been using the 8400 and 9600 for the past five years.

I am going to wait for Esoteric to come out with a blu ray player. I will get a really high end one as it will likely be my last player. After that we should all likely be into servers.

Howard

I also owned a DV9600 and it was a fine player, though the audio with CD still wasnt upto my Sony XA5Es. The Sony had beautiful sound with totally separate transformers for each section. Totally agree with you about the separate supplies being essential for analogue and digital. Furthermore, I want LINEAR power supplies, not the switch-mode crap that they're all doing now. Am I asking too much? Still, there might be future modications available for us audiophiles.
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post #471 of 724 Old 09-29-2008, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman6662 View Post

Congrats on your new player also. I just got mine too. Alot to play with . Not sure of my frimware version either , But my unit has a build date on it August 2008 so it's only one month old .so I hope it has the most current frimware , I know a few things I tried to do I cant do , but I was hoping they fixed them so you don't need to do it. Lmk if you find out anything on it .

Congrats on getting your player and mine is sounding awesome through the analogs. Did not even look at build date on mine but am assuming that I do not have software version 1.103 -- will find out for sure when I find out how to check for software version in the BD8002. Since it is so close to the Denon I will check the Denon 3800 thread and see how they do it in the Denon and hopefully will be same in the Marantz.

So far I find myself very pleased with this unit and did as suggested, used DVD essentials and then did settings in the TV. Have been playing just BD's but will try some SD's later this week.
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post #472 of 724 Old 09-29-2008, 12:14 PM
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awre,

I notice you have a SR9600. Couldn´t you connect the 8002 through HDMI if you only had a 5.1 configuration? Isn´t the 8002 able to downmix/decode 7.1 tracks to 5.1 LPCM (lossless)?

I ask this because I am being offered a SR9600 for a very good price (1100 eur), and I think it´s really much better built than the new AV8002. Besides, I could connect my DV9600 through I-Link to it.

Do you pass the BD8002 video signal through the SR9600? I guess it doesn´t accept the High Speed option?

Thanks,

Joaquin
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post #473 of 724 Old 09-29-2008, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joaquin Mejia View Post

awre,

I notice you have a SR9600. Couldn´t you connect the 8002 through HDMI if you only had a 5.1 configuration? Isn´t the 8002 able to downmix/decode 7.1 tracks to 5.1 LPCM (lossless)?

I ask this because I am being offered a SR9600 for a very good price (1100 eur), and I think it´s really much better built than the new AV8002. Besides, I could connect my DV9600 through I-Link to it.

Do you pass the BD8002 video signal through the SR9600? I guess it doesn´t accept the High Speed option?

Thanks,

Joaquin

Yes, the HDMI worked for 5:1 but would not work for my 7:1 configuration.

Yes, it did seem to downmix/decode the 7:1 to the 5:1 LPCM (lossless).

Since I really wanted the 7:1 lossless capability I had to go to using the analogs.

I am using and HDMI 1.3 cable from the Receiver to the TV. I also use 1.3 cable between the BD8002 and the Receiver. I am very pleased with video in this configuration. The other alternative would be to run the HDMI 1.3 directly to the TV (I have enough inputs on the TV to do this) for video with the audio to Receiver via analogs. Since I am content with picture quality I will leave it going through the Receiver for now -- maybe one of these days I will experiment going to the TV direct from the BD8002 via HDMI 1.3.

I really like the SR9600 and like you did not want to change out receivers. I am very happy with performance now.

Have you figured out how to see what software version you are running on the BD8002?

bob
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post #474 of 724 Old 09-29-2008, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awre View Post

Have you figured out how to see what software version you are running on the BD8002?

bob

If it's like the Denon, this should work. Let everyone know if it does:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterEBM View Post

You press 1-2-3-4-Display on the remote (but you have to type it fast, or else it won't work)


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post #475 of 724 Old 09-29-2008, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

If it's like the Denon, this should work. Let everyone know if it does:

I will give it a try tonight. Thanks !!!!
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post #476 of 724 Old 09-30-2008, 12:04 AM
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HELP... Any one ...I still can't get the DEEP COLOR to turn off in the menu , It's grayed out, & stuck in Auto..

Last night I watched Transformers , And I feel my pic Qualty was really poor looking parts , grainy and also it was going light to dark like aflicker , any one else seen this ? lmk thanks
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post #477 of 724 Old 09-30-2008, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awre View Post

I will give it a try tonight. Thanks !!!!

You press 1-2-3-4-Display on the remote (but you have to type it fast, or else it won't work)


Hey did this work on getting the firmware ?

I'd try it but scared too.. LOL waiting for you
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post #478 of 724 Old 09-30-2008, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by awre View Post

Congrats on getting your player and mine is sounding awesome through the analogs. Did not even look at build date on mine but am assuming that I do not have software version 1.103 -- will find out for sure when I find out how to check for software version in the BD8002. Since it is so close to the Denon I will check the Denon 3800 thread and see how they do it in the Denon and hopefully will be same in the Marantz.

So far I find myself very pleased with this unit and did as suggested, used DVD essentials and then did settings in the TV. Have been playing just BD's but will try some SD's later this week.


I have to try that , but I feel it should be good , because my tv has been playing Blu-rays off the Sony BDP-S350 and the picture was stunning . beatifull ..I jst feel the Marantz is good but I'm missing something, It sould be like WOW , Awsome . perfect..know what I mean. maybe it's me , mind on alot of other things , I'll play with it this weekend.
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post #479 of 724 Old 09-30-2008, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by sandman6662 View Post

HELP... Any one ...I still can't get the DEEP COLOR to turn off in the menu , It's grayed out, & stuck in Auto..

Last night I watched Transformers , And I feel my pic Qualty was really poor looking parts , grainy and also it was going light to dark like aflicker , any one else seen this ? lmk thanks

If it's grayed out, that typically means your display doesn't support it and that's why you can't change it. You can test this by connecting a composite cable to the same display (while disconnecting the HDMI) and seeing if you get the same result.

Did you try changing IRE to 0? It is on 7.5 by default and many have changed it to 0 as a first (and sometimes only) adjustment.

Pioneer broke my heart.
Denon broke my wallet.
Oppo broke my thinking.
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post #480 of 724 Old 09-30-2008, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman6662 View Post

You press 1-2-3-4-Display on the remote (but you have to type it fast, or else it won't work)


Hey did this work on getting the firmware ?

I'd try it but scared too.. LOL waiting for you

Thanks EWL5, this code worked perfectly. Just turn on DVD, hit 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 and then "display" and the information comes up on the screen. My version is 1.103 and I believe this is the latest upgrade.
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