Originally Posted by EWL5
There's enough confusion concerning the LFE bug and the -5dB when Source Direct is OFF that I think now is the right time to post. Lee (RBFC), if you can add a link to your first post, this may help a lot of current and future owners.The Best Audio Choice for YOUR Situation
With this post, I hope that everyone can make an informed decision as to which audio choice would be the best choice for your
particular situation:Bitstreaming (ie. HDMI Multi (Normal))
1) You own an HDMI 1.3 AVR/prepro capable of decoding ALL HBR codecs
2) You don't really care for secondary audio and don't watch PIP commentary or special features much
3) You want decoding of DTS-ES and/or Dolby Digital EX tracks
4) You want the simplest audio setting possible from the player (receiver will take care of speaker delay, level, bass management, etc.)
5) Your AVR/prepro has decent automatic calibration and you would rather make use of those settings instead of manually setting delay, level, etc.Player decodes over HDMI with Source Direct ON (ie. HDMI Multi (LPCM)+ BD Audio Mode set at Mix Audio Output)
1) You want the player to decode the audio.
2) You own an HDMI receiver that is at least HDMI 1.1 and can handle MCH LPCM over HDMI.
3) You enjoy special features and want the player to do the mixing of primary and secondary audio (retaining lossless quality).
4) You want the receiver to handle speaker delay, level, bass management, etc.Note: This mode used to have the LFE bug but is fixed with latest firmware.
Player decodes over HDMI with Source Direct OFF
Same as above except:
1) You want the player to handle speaker delay, level, bass management, etc.
2) This mode WILL create a -15dB LFE level relative to the other channels due to redirected LFE when any speakers are selected as SMALL (If all speakers are LARGE, then you are similar to Source Direct ON with the exception that delay/channel levels are still taken). You have essentially created a mode similar to analog but this is in the digital realm! LFE must be boosted by +15dB. Since the max the 3800 can boost in LFE is +10, you have to further boost in the receiver/prepro by an additional +5dB! This is not a bug since you will experience this in analog as well!
3) Your AVR/prepro has no further capability of boosting LFE (ie. analog is a passthrough with no LFE boosting capability). If this is the case, you will want to set all speakers to LARGE as the max that the 3800 can boost is +10dB and NOT +15dB! Setting speakers to LARGE will prevent redirected LFE and the additional -5dB drop.Player decodes and outputs over MCH Analog Outs and Source Direct OFF
1) People who own non-HDMI receivers or can't handle MCH LPCM over HDMI.
2) The DAC's in the player are much better than the receiver's DAC's.
3) As explained in point 2 above, you WILL get -15dB drop if ANY speakers are set to SMALL due to redirected LFE. This has been a limitation of analog since the early days of analog decoding. People are just discovering this quirk because we've been digital for so long! Same necessity to further boost +5 in the AVR/prepro applies since the player maxes out at +10dB for LFE. If that additional +5 boost is a problem, set all speakers to LARGE.Player decodes and outputs over MCH Analog Outs and Source Direct ON
1) Similar to above with the exception that your AVR/prepro has the capability to post process over the MCH analog outs. It is rare to be able to redigitize and apply delay, BM, etc. after the player's DAC but these processors do exist. Most analog users will want Source Direct OFF.
Most of these findings I've discovered on my own but I wasn't able to connect the similarities b/w HDMI Source Direct OFF and analog MCH out until I read Kris' review of the 3800:
"All 7.1 channels feature full bass management and level controls for PCM signals sent via the HDMI or analog outputs. In my experience, level adjustments over HDMI are unique to the DVD-3800BDCI."
That little passage made me realize that for better or worse, Denon gave the user much more flexibility than anyone could possibly imagine. It also gave the possiblity of users like sharok discovering the "-5dB hole" that is normal to analog users but unique to HDMI until you consider that with Source Direct OFF, it acts exactly like analog!
So in conclusion, this "-5dB hole" is easily accounted for by:
1) Boosting LFE by +5 in the AVR/prepro
2) Setting all speakers to LARGE (prevents redirected LFE and the -5dB)
3) Simply turning Source Direct to ON and letting the receiver do all the work.
Remember, this "-5dB hole" is normal when redirected LFE is involved. It is not like the common LFE bug but we took notice because what we should have expected in analog was happening to HDMI with Source Direct OFF.
Edit: If you would like further reading on the common -10dB for LFE vs the -15dB LFE w/redirected bass, please read the first post of this thread:http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748147
Remember, that it comes from the analog angle but fits very well with what is happening with HDMI and Source Direct OFF (with at least one speaker set to SMALL of course).
Edit: Note that the -15dB referenced above for LFE is due to the fact that LFE is recorded -10dB to begin with and there is a further -5dB drop from redirected LFE. If Source Direct is ON, then LFE will be the conventional -10dB lower than the other channels as expected; if you are doing HDMI LPCM, then the +10dB must
be provided by the AVR/prepro.