Official PS3 FAQ Master Thread - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 4484 Old 09-18-2008, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by nealh View Post

Thank you

I set Dynamic range ON because it supposedly helps to hear the dialogue better(and my wife is so sensitive and misses some of the dialogue...then she is always asking what did they say)

Hey Nealh,

Sounds like your wife may benefit from a less reverberating room.

Try an experiment with her by introducing some sound absorption, or diffusion, into your room and see how she does with the dialogue.

Just an acoustic incursion into this helpful thread...

Thanks for the tech help guys.

creative>energy

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post #212 of 4484 Old 09-18-2008, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

.15 is also a fairly high rate.

To put it another way, if you watched 100 BDs a year on your PS3 it would cost you about an extra $3 a year on your power bill.

And actually the newest PS3 only uses about 150 watts during BD playback vs. 50 watts for a SA BD player, so maybe $1 a year extra in electric for 100 movies.

I used $0.15 per kilowatt hour since this probably represents about the highest rate for electricity in the USA. The 3 cents per movie was based on the 40GB (or new 80GB) model that consumes about 150W when playing a disc (about 100W more than a standalone player).

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post #213 of 4484 Old 09-18-2008, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post

Ok, I started playing some of the trailers and most are in Pro Logic, but some are in Dolby Digital. I guess it is the disc. However, on the Order of the Phoenix trailer, the audio was out of sync from one channel to the other, then half way through, one channel just went out. Very weird! I will keep playing around as well as playing another disc. Hope its not a bad PS3!

Did you get your problem resolved. I suspect you had the optical output set to "PCM" rather than to "bitstream". A PCM setting will only give you a 2-channel (stereo) output via optical and the AVR would then apply pro-logic to create the surround sound. The correct setting for your case is "bitstream" which will give you Dolby Digital output. You will also need to check off which formats you want to output via optical. See my earlier Post #127 in this thread.

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post #214 of 4484 Old 09-18-2008, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

The 'upscale' feature should do nothing for most BD material since most BDs are already recorded in 1080p format and the upscale is only there to convert lower resolution material up to 1080p. Some BDs are actually recorded in 1080i (e.g., at least some releases of Planet Earth are in 1080i) and a recent firmware update to the PS3 now allows 1080i BD material to be upscaled to 1080p. However, your HDTV will upscale 1080i sources to 1080p for display and depending on the quality of the scaling in your specific model of HDTV, it may do a better job at the 1080i -to- 1080p upscaling than the PS3. That appears to be case for your specific HDTV.


Thanks Ron.
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post #215 of 4484 Old 09-18-2008, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

Did you get your problem resolved. I suspect you had the optical output set to "PCM" rather than to "bitstream". A PCM setting will only give you a 2-channel (stereo) output via optical and the AVR would then apply pro-logic to create the surround sound. The correct setting for your case is "bitstream" which will give you Dolby Digital output. You will also need to check off which formats you want to output via optical. See my earlier Post #127 in this thread.

The only thing I don't have checked is AAC. Not sure what that is. I only have one Blu-Ray disc, but it played the movie in 5.1 Dolby Digital. It was weird though, because one of the little Disney clips before the movie was only Pro Logic. I can only guess it was that way on the disc. BTW I was watching The Nightmare Before Christmas BD.

Indecision may or may not be my problem.
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post #216 of 4484 Old 09-18-2008, 03:16 PM
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Has anyone come up with a work-around that would allow a PS3 to be controlled in a component closet with a Universal remote?
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post #217 of 4484 Old 09-18-2008, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by allredp View Post

Hey Nealh,

Sounds like your wife may benefit from a less reverberating room.

Try an experiment with her by introducing some sound absorption, or diffusion, into your room and see how she does with the dialogue.

Just an acoustic incursion into this helpful thread...

Thanks for the tech help guys.

Thanks for the idea

Wish I could but the room is too open..family room with a kitchen nook...besides doubt any acoustic material will work for her motif
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post #218 of 4484 Old 09-18-2008, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post

The only thing I don't have checked is AAC. Not sure what that is. I only have one Blu-Ray disc, but it played the movie in 5.1 Dolby Digital. It was weird though, because one of the little Disney clips before the movie was only Pro Logic. I can only guess it was that way on the disc. BTW I was watching The Nightmare Before Christmas BD.

AAC.. link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Audio_Coding
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post #219 of 4484 Old 09-18-2008, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Has anyone come up with a work-around that would allow a PS3 to be controlled in a component closet with a Universal remote?

Yes - we all have that functionality.
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post #220 of 4484 Old 09-18-2008, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

If the PS3 were to consume 100 watts more than a standalone player that would mean for a typical 2 hour long movie the PS3 would consume an extra 200 Watt-hours of electric. Even if you pay $0.15 per 1000 Watt-hours (i.e, 1 KW-Hour) that would mean it would cost you an extra 3 cents to play a BD movie on the PS3 as compared to a standalone BD player.

Great, thanks Ron.

I ended up picking up a standard PS3 80 gig unit the other day from Target (10% off opening with Target card too). I returned my Pioneer 51FD.

The PS3 was my very first Blu-ray player. I ended up moving along to several different standalone units, but arrived at the PS3 again. I missed its speed and operational smoothness for sure. My experience with it has been it's incredibly reliable.

It's also come to my understanding that its Blu-ray 1080p/24 output is accurate and reference with no enhancing. It appears many of the standalones are not quite at spec and/or are doing some sort of processing even in default modes. However, I've heard the PS3 is capable of outputting 12 bit emulating Deep Color upsampling. My question is, is this an option somewhere in the menu system? I thought it's default output is 8 bit.

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post #221 of 4484 Old 09-18-2008, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Great, thanks Ron.

I ended up picking up a standard PS3 80 gig unit the other day from Target (10% off opening with Target card too). I returned my Pioneer 51FD.

The PS3 was my very first Blu-ray player. I ended up moving along to several different standalone units, but arrived at the PS3 again. I missed its speed and operational smoothness for sure. My experience with it has been it's incredibly reliable.

It's also come to my understanding that its Blu-ray 1080p/24 output is accurate and reference with no enhancing. It appears many of the standalones are not quite at spec and/or are doing some sort of processing even in default modes. However, I've heard the PS3 is capable of outputting 12 bit emulating Deep Color upsampling. My question is, is this an option somewhere in the menu system? I thought it's default output is 8 bit.

The PS3 switches to using Deep Color output (12 bits per component, 36 bits per pixel, YCbCr 4:4:4) automatically when it discovers it is connected to a Deep Color capable display or AVR. There is no setting you need to make in the PS3 to turn on Deep Color. Just leave YCbCr output enabled (the Automatic setting works fine for this) and Deep Color will happen automatically.

The automatic HDMI setup in the PS3 will handle this for you.

There may be a setting you have to make in your display or AVR to enable Deep Color input.

If your display or AVR accepts YCbCr, but not Deep Color, what you will get from the PS3 is 8 bits per component, 24 bits per pixel, YCbCr 4:4:4.

Typically, the only video settings change you need to make in the PS3 from the factory defaults is to turn "SuperWhite" ON which enables output of Blacker than Black and Peak White data when using YCbCr output.
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post #222 of 4484 Old 09-18-2008, 07:05 PM
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Great explanation, Bob. Thanks.

So, if a purist doesn't want Deep Color, they need to utilize the display and/or AVR to block it, correct? Or could one just use an RGB mode on the PS3?

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post #223 of 4484 Old 09-18-2008, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Great explanation, Bob. Thanks.

So, if a purist doesn't want Deep Color, they need to utilize the display and/or AVR to block it, correct? Or could one just use an RGB mode on the PS3?

There's really no point in blocking it, but yes you'd need to do it in the display or AVR. You don't want to use RGB from the PS3 unless you have no other choice. Some displays insist on RGB, and some games insist on RGB. But the PS3 has a long-standing bug that clips Blacker than Black and Peak White data when you use RGB. So use YCbCr (with SuperWhite ON) when you can.
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post #224 of 4484 Old 09-18-2008, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

There's really no point in blocking it, but yes you'd need to do it in the display or AVR. You don't want to use RGB from the PS3 unless you have no other choice. Some displays insist on RGB, and some games insist on RGB. But the PS3 has a long-standing bug that clips Blacker than Black and Peak White data when you use RGB. So use YCbCr (with SuperWhite ON) when you can.
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So, you don't think it's 12 bit output can do any potential harm? This kind of goes back to the 51FD thread discussions about whether it's altering the source.

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post #225 of 4484 Old 09-18-2008, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

So, you don't think it's 12 bit output can do any potential harm? This kind of goes back to the 51FD thread discussions about whether it's altering the source.

I don't believe the PS3 is trying to do anything unusual with its Deep Color output. No "Deep Color Trick".

ETA: General discussion like this is probably better done in the main PS3 thread so that this thread can be left to enhancing and explaining the FAQ in the first post.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=650544

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post #226 of 4484 Old 09-18-2008, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Has anyone come up with a work-around that would allow a PS3 to be controlled in a component closet with a Universal remote?

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Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

Yes - we all have that functionality.

That's great to hear. Can you provide any details, or a location where the details are located?

Thanks.
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post #227 of 4484 Old 09-18-2008, 08:33 PM
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That's great to hear. Can you provide any details, or a location where the details are located?

Thanks.

You need two things: (1) A remotely controllable IR emitter that will work in the closet and receive signals from your remote control, and (2) an IR to BlueTooth converter that will talk to the PS3 since the PS3 does not have IR remote input -- only BlueTooth.

For the remotely controllable IR stuff there are lots of solutions. For example, Harmony has a version of their remotes that offer a radio interconnect. You put the radio receiver in the closet with your equipment and little IR light emitters plug into it to deliver IR to the devices in there. More elaborate systems like the Crestron stuff also exist.

For the IR to BlueTooth converter, check out this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1016741

You place the converter in the closet with the PS3 in a manner that it can see one of the IR emitters from the part described above. The converter "pairs" with the PS3's BlueTooth stuff and converts the IR it sees to the BlueTooth commands the PS3 requires.

By the way I found the link to that thread by looking at the first post of this FAQ thread under the "Remotes" section. Pretty easy really.

I use an IR2BT myself with a Harmony 880 remote. The Harmony 890 is the radio version of the 880.
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post #228 of 4484 Old 09-18-2008, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

You need two things:

Thanks Bob. I'm half way there.

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By the way I found the link to that thread by looking at the first post of this FAQ thread under the "Remotes" section. Pretty easy really.



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post #229 of 4484 Old 09-19-2008, 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

I used $0.15 per kilowatt hour since this probably represents about the highest rate for electricity in the USA...

I'd love it if I only had to pay $0.15/kwh! Your assumed max rate is off by half. Our rates here in Honolulu fluctuate wildly with fuel-cost-recovery charges every month, but last month I paid $0.306 per kilowatt hour. All of our power plants are oil-fired and we're getting nailed by the spike in oil prices. Even so, I'd say the costs of watching a movie on my PS3 are negligible compared to the cost of running my A/C!

Aloha
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post #230 of 4484 Old 09-19-2008, 04:22 AM
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I have some questions regarding RGB Full and Limited Range.

If I have understood this correctly:
Any Blu-Ray / DVD follows the YCbCr-standard, and the black-levels goes from 16-235. In other words: Limited Range (LR).
However, the PS3 (XMB and games) follows the sRGB/RGB-scale, and those black-levels goes from 0-255. In other words: Full Range (FR).

But what happens when you run a Limited Range-video on a Full Range PS3 and vice versa?

1. The PS3 is set to "Full Range" and I play a DVD/Blu-Ray. What happens? Does the PS3 amp the black-levels so level 16 (black in LR) becomes 0 (black on FR), and I do not need to recalibrate my display? Or do the PS3 pass the signal through without modification, so level 16 (black in LR) become level 16 (dark gray on FR)?

2. And what happens with the PS3 is set to "Limited Range" and I display a FR-picture/video? Does the PS3 decrease the black-level range from 0-255 to 16-255 and everything look normal, but information is discarded? Or will the PS3 just throw away everything above 235 and below 16, I get a "gray-crushing"-effect?

Or does the PS3 solve this in an other fashion? Because, no matter how I do it, the PS3 will either discard some information or add information one way or the other? So a 100% accurate picture for both Blu-Ray/DVD and PS3 games are impossible?

Or am I missing something?
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post #231 of 4484 Old 09-19-2008, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Larry523 View Post

I'd love it if I only had to pay $0.15/kwh! Your assumed max rate is off by half. Our rates here in Honolulu fluctuate wildly with fuel-cost-recovery charges every month, but last month I paid $0.306 per kilowatt hour. All of our power plants are oil-fired and we're getting nailed by the spike in oil prices. Even so, I'd say the costs of watching a movie on my PS3 are negligible compared to the cost of running my A/C!

Aloha

When I posted the $0.15 per KW-hr electric rate I suspected someone from Hawaii might respond. Having visited Hawaii a number of times, both on business and on vacation, I suspected electric costs would be high, like most everything else there (I noted that the Costco's are very popular there with their national pricing - I hope it's still that way). I know soaring energy prices have hit Hawaii far more than on the mainland.

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post #232 of 4484 Old 09-19-2008, 06:43 AM
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Sitron,
The Limited/Full setting has no effect when the PS3 is outputting YCbCr, just like the SuperWhite setting has no effect when the PS3 is outputting RGB.

The recommended settings (RGB Limited and SuperWhite ON) will each take effect only when the PS3 is sending out RGB or YCbCr respectively.

For most people, Blu-Ray movies will be output by the PS3 as YCbCr, and thus the RGB Limited/Full selection makes no difference.

However, some people have displays which insist on receiving RGB -- displays with DVI inputs being the usual culprits. And some games insist on RGB output. For those cases the RGB Limited/Full selection does make a difference (and the SuperWhite setting is ignored).

The key thing to remember when the PS3 (or any other device) is sending out RGB, is that the device at the other end of the cable has to be set to expect the same flavor of RGB.

For home theater use, what the PS3 calls RGB Limited and what everyone else calls "Studio RGB" is the proper default choice. There should be a corresponding setting in your TV or receiver -- and again it should only have effect when the PS3 is actually sending out RGB. The setting in the TV or receiver could be called just about anything as the marketing guys who come up with these names like to invent new names, but it will have just two choices. It will most likely be called something like Blacks with the choices being something like Lighter/Darker, Normal/Extended, 16/0, or perhaps something even more confusing.

There are a few displays and projectors out there which are designed primarily for use with computers that insist on RGB input *AND* do not have enough calibration range to handle RGB Limited (Studio RGB) input correctly.

And that's why the PS3 offers the RGB Full choice. If you find you can't make RGB Limited work with your TV or receiver when the PS3 sends out RGB, then switch the PS3 to RGB Full and try again.

Note that despite the way these things are named, they really have nothing to do with making the picture lighter/darker or even better/worse. The only reason you see a difference when you make the change in the PS3 is because you have not ALSO made the corresponding change in the TV or receiver.

RGB Limited (Studio RGB) encodes Black as digital 16 and Reference White as 235. The ranges from 0-15 and from 235 to 255 are used in video processing to hold the so-called Blacker than Black and Peak White data.

[NOTE: There is a long standing bug in the PS3 that prevents it from actually sending out Blacker than Black or Peak White data when RGB output is used. That's one reason why YCbCr output (with SuperWhite ON) is the preferred choice for Blu-Ray movie watching.]

RGB Full (Extended RGB) encodes Black as digital 0 and Reference White as 255. Since no pixel can have a value below 0 or above 255 there is no place to put Blacker than Black or Peak White data.

Now if the PS3 is set to send RGB Limited, and the TV or receiver is set to expect Black=0, then the image is going to look a bit washed out in the near blacks. You would have to compensate by lowering black levels (Brightness control) in the TV or receiver.

Similarly if the PS3 is set to send RGB Full, and the TV or receiver is set to expect Black=16, then the image is going to look too dark and with loss of near black details. You would have to compensate by raising black levels (Brightness control) in the TV or receiver.

But if both sides of the cable are set the same way then blacks will look correct USING EITHER SETTING.

---------------------------------------------------

Anyway, here's the formula:

1) Set the PS3 to RGB Limited and to SuperWhite ON. Set the PS3's output choice to Automatic (rather than either YCbCr or RGB).

2) Set the TV or receiver to expect Studio RGB whenever it realizes the signal coming in is RGB. Studio RGB is the one where Black=16

3) Using a Blu-Ray calibration disc (such as Digital Video Essentials Blu-Ray), set the basic levels in your TV or receiver. If you have no problem doing that then you are done.

4) But if you find you can't set Blacks properly, and if you discover the PS3 is sending RGB (perhaps because you have a DVI input display), then, and only then, try switching the PS3 to RGB Full output.
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post #233 of 4484 Old 09-19-2008, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sitron View Post

I have some questions regarding RGB Full and Limited Range.

If I have understood this correctly:
Any Blu-Ray / DVD follows the YCbCr-standard, and the black-levels goes from 16-235. In other words: Limited Range (LR).
However, the PS3 (XMB and games) follows the sRGB/RGB-scale, and those black-levels goes from 0-255. In other words: Full Range (FR).

But what happens when you run a Limited Range-video on a Full Range PS3 and vice versa?

1. The PS3 is set to "Full Range" and I play a DVD/Blu-Ray. What happens? Does the PS3 amp the black-levels so level 16 (black in LR) becomes 0 (black on FR), and I do not need to recalibrate my display? Or do the PS3 pass the signal through without modification, so level 16 (black in LR) become level 16 (dark gray on FR)?

2. And what happens with the PS3 is set to "Limited Range" and I display a FR-picture/video? Does the PS3 decrease the black-level range from 0-255 to 16-255 and everything look normal, but information is discarded? Or will the PS3 just throw away everything above 235 and below 16, I get a "gray-crushing"-effect?

Or does the PS3 solve this in an other fashion? Because, no matter how I do it, the PS3 will either discard some information or add information one way or the other? So a 100% accurate picture for both Blu-Ray/DVD and PS3 games are impossible?

Or am I missing something?

When set to RGB Full the PS3 re-maps the video range of 16 to 235 recorded on the disc into a 0 to 255 range (i.e., still will not pass blacker-than-black nor whiter-than-white values if they are encoded on the disc). In theory this re-mapping should result in some modest degradation of the video accuracy. If set to RGB Limited the video levels from disc are directly used for the output thus avoiding any re-remapping. However, with a limited setting the computer graphics functions of the PS3 (i.e., XMB and games), which follow the PC video range of values (i.e., 0 to 255) will be remapped to the more limited video range of 16 to 235. For optimum viewing of BDs your HDTV should be calibrated for video levels with the PS3 set to RGB Limited. Of course many/most HDTVs will accept Y Pb Pr format, instead or in addition to RGB, via HDMI and generally this is the better format to use for playing BDs (that's the format recorded on the BD). If your HDTV supports both formats via HDMI you can set the PS3's HDMI output format to Auto and video when playing BDs will be output in Y Pb Pr format and when showing the XMB and playing video games will be output in RGB fomat. In this latter Auto mode and with RGB set to full and Superwhite turned on for Y Pb Pr you are getting the best format output for each type of material, but in order to benefit from this your HDTV display would need to offer two different calibration memories that are set up individually for each format.

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post #234 of 4484 Old 09-19-2008, 04:23 PM
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Check out the discussion in the main PS3 thread beginning with this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post14697348

It looks like it might be a good idea to add a recommendation in the FAQ post for folks to turn the Dynamic Range Control audio setting OFF instead of the default Automatic. Apparently leaving it on Automatic can screw up certain audio tracks.
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post #235 of 4484 Old 09-20-2008, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Anyway, here's the formula:

1) Set the PS3 to RGB Limited and to SuperWhite ON. Set the PS3's output choice to Automatic (rather than either YCbCr or RGB).

I always assumed the HDMI output setting (YCbCr/RGB/Auto) under the BD/DVD settings menu would not effect game output over HDMI. In other words, even if you force YCbCr under BD/DVD settings, the PS3 will still output RGB if necessary for games and follow the RGB limited/full setting under Display settings.

Is that incorrect? I can't really test as I do not own a single game.
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post #236 of 4484 Old 09-20-2008, 06:50 AM
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A couple of questions from a new PS3 owner:

Regarding the Bluetooth remote control, how do I change the settings so that only one button turns the PS3 on? ATM, any button powers it up. Annoying when you accidentally sit on the remote and the PS3 turns on when not needed!

Also, how do I remove extra users that have been created?

I have noticed that the PS3 does not appear to play movies in their full aspect ratio. I have a good understanding of the technicalities involved, but I'm sure the PS is cropping the sides of the frame slightly compared to my Pioneer DV-696 upscaling player. Does the Pioneer overscan slightly where the PS3 does not? Then again, I could be imagining things...

Thanks in advance!

Mike, Oz
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post #237 of 4484 Old 09-20-2008, 07:35 AM
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I have updated Post #1 to change the:

- recommended setting for Dynamic Range Control is OFF

- current Firmware version to 2.43

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post #238 of 4484 Old 09-20-2008, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

I always assumed the HDMI output setting (YCbCr/RGB/Auto) under the BD/DVD settings menu would not effect game output over HDMI. In other words, even if you force YCbCr under BD/DVD settings, the PS3 will still output RGB if necessary for games and follow the RGB limited/full setting under Display settings.

Is that incorrect? I can't really test as I do not own a single game.

You may be right. I can't check that either.
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post #239 of 4484 Old 09-20-2008, 08:41 AM
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Well, at least with regards to the XMB it would appear my assumption is correct. The XMB still appears to utilize RGB irrespective of the YCbCr/RGB/Auto settings under BD/DVD settings. I tested this by toggling b/w Full and Limited RGB (the expected change in black level still occurs) and also by forcing colorspace selection on my display. Interestingly, I could not get the PS3 to output anything but RGB for the XMB.

This would tend to suggest the same would occur for games. Maybe someone else with games could confirm this.
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post #240 of 4484 Old 09-20-2008, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

Well, at least with regards to the XMB it would appear my assumption is correct. The XMB still appears to utilize RGB irrespective of the YCbCr/RGB/Auto settings under BD/DVD settings. I tested this by toggling b/w Full and Limited RGB (the expected change in black level still occurs) and also by forcing colorspace selection on my display. Interestingly, I could not get the PS3 to output anything but RGB for the XMB.

This would tend to suggest the same would occur for games. Maybe someone else with games could confirm this.

If you have your PS3 connected to the internet you can download free demo games.

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