blu ray not *super* sharp? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 42 Old 11-21-2007, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I have my PS3 hooked up via HDMI to my Onkyo 605 receiver and then HDMI out to my display Bravia LCD.

Blu ray looks great! However, I am not "blown away" as everyone seems to be. It looks better than SD, and the details are amazing. But I am missing the incredible 3D pop and amazing stuff that the hype led me to look for. I am missing something? Should I (gasp!) test out a Monster HDMI cable to see if there is a difference (using Monoprice now)?

Even in the B&M stores, with the settings cranked too high (on showroom Vivid settings) things sometimes seem to pop more. Though watching at those settings for too long can make your eyes bleed.

So is this as good as it gets and the hype made me expect to much, or should I do anything different?

(as reference, I've watched some top BD discs such as Apocalypto, Kingdom of Heaven, etc. Black Hawn Down was amazing though)

Jeff
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post #2 of 42 Old 11-21-2007, 09:04 PM
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I dunno man. Apocalypto looks mind-blowing on my RPTV. Is your Bravia a 768p set by any chance? maybe it has a not-so-great scaler.

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post #3 of 42 Old 11-21-2007, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jizaref1 View Post

Should I (gasp!) test out a Monster HDMI cable to see if there is a difference (using Monoprice now)?

No.

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post #4 of 42 Old 11-21-2007, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jizaref1 View Post

I have my PS3 hooked up via HDMI to my Onkyo 605 receiver and then HDMI out to my display Bravia LCD.

Blu ray looks great! However, I am not "blown away" as everyone seems to be. It looks better than SD, and the details are amazing. But I am missing the incredible 3D pop and amazing stuff that the hype led me to look for. I am missing something? Should I (gasp!) test out a Monster HDMI cable to see if there is a difference (using Monoprice now)?

Even in the B&M stores, with the settings cranked too high (on showroom Vivid settings) things sometimes seem to pop more. Though watching at those settings for too long can make your eyes bleed.

So is this as good as it gets and the hype made me expect to much, or should I do anything different?

(as reference, I've watched some top BD discs such as Apocalypto, Kingdom of Heaven, etc. Black Hawn Down was amazing though)

Jeff

What resolution are you outputing on the PS3?
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post #5 of 42 Old 11-21-2007, 10:33 PM
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.. or even 1080p tv's?

just asking b/c the standalone set up to a samsung and sony lcd playing PoC in the store looked pretty crazy with it's 3d like effect (maybe also b/c of the CG features?)... whereas my sony a3000-ps3 set up hasnt quite had the completely jaw dropping effect i was hoping for- definately very nice.. but different- if you know what i mean.

also tried out ratat and blackhawk down - the former being pretty darn good

thanks for any input
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post #6 of 42 Old 11-21-2007, 10:35 PM
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can anyone briefly summarize rec's for the ps3 settings?

like the rgb full.. wide

white...

etc...

forgot the details and specifics- as i've probably messed up the feature names- but it's in the xmb part for tweaking certain things...
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post #7 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 04:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geko29 View Post

I dunno man. Apocalypto looks mind-blowing on my RPTV. Is your Bravia a 768p set by any chance? maybe it has a not-so-great scaler.

My display is a Sony 52XBR2 1080p.
My output on PS3 is also 1080p.
My Onkyo605 is not set to do any video processing.
And I have sharpness and color turned up on LCD settings.

Again, things look great, but not mind blowing.

Considering connecting the PS3 direct to my display, but since it only has one HDMI out I would lose out on the hi bitrate audio through HDMI to my receiver (would need to use optical).

Anyone else have input?

Jeff
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post #8 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 04:51 AM
 
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You're a videogame player, who is used to seeing real 3d "pop", talking to movie people, who are not used to seeing 3d "pop", theres a little lost in context of what to expect.

That being said, the movies should be notably much better than dvd.

Buying a monster cable however, would make you into an idiot. I assume you don't want to be an idiot, so don't do that.
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post #9 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 05:29 AM
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Just a question like that, is your set in any way or form calibrated or are you on default settings? My A2000 looked good new but so much better after DVE. And I go from my PS3 to my Denon 987 to my A2000 and I think the PQ ( as is the AQ) amazing on the titles you mentionned, Apocalypto being one of my favs.
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post #10 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 10:34 AM
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Funny, I also am experiencing the impression that my BR picture (new Panny 30 thru HDMI) is not as sharp as the better HD cable channels (FIOS thru component...). Both to a 768 Panny 50" plasma.

Just a little surprised, still tweaking

Chuck
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post #11 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jizaref1 View Post

My display is a Sony 52XBR2 1080p.
My output on PS3 is also 1080p.
My Onkyo605 is not set to do any video processing.
And I have sharpness and color turned up on LCD settings.

First off, turn the sharpness down to zero, all it does is add false ringing.

Does your Sony have a dot-for-dot, pixel-for-pixel, or just-scan screen mode to get pure 1920x1080 on the screen?

I think you probably need a good calibration and some better demo material. Blu-ray does indeed look "super sharp" with the right setting and material.
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post #12 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jizaref1 View Post

My display is a Sony 52XBR2 1080p.
My output on PS3 is also 1080p.
My Onkyo605 is not set to do any video processing.
And I have sharpness and color turned up on LCD settings.

Again, things look great, but not mind blowing.

Considering connecting the PS3 direct to my display, but since it only has one HDMI out I would lose out on the hi bitrate audio through HDMI to my receiver (would need to use optical).

Anyone else have input?

Jeff

I have my ps3 going through my 705 on hdmi to my 52 XBR 4 and it is simply stunning. I thought apocalypto looked beautiful. Especially the seens in the mayan village the colors just popped off the screen. Have you tried planet earth if that doesn't pop there is something seriously wrong with your setup.
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post #13 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 11:45 AM
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Keep in mind that HD originally shot on video (Discovery HD etc) has a very different look than HD movies shot on film.

Steve S.
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post #14 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 11:46 AM
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I don’t know anything about that receiver but is it outputting 1080p to the TV? There are receivers which converts 1080p to 1080i although a lot of the newest receivers will do 1080p. If your receiver does output 1080p, then maybe it’s on 1080i and you need to change it to 1080p in the menu.

You could also try hooking up the PS3 straight to the TV just once to see if it’ll make a difference. It’s a quicker way to see if it’s the receiver or not.
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post #15 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 12:13 PM
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I think the op is used to having his sharpness settings maxed out, and is expecting to see that hyped, artificial sharpness in every release.
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post #16 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 12:20 PM
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Calibration has a lot to do with a good look. Often, displays are set to "torch mode" which is good for games, not good for movies. Some DVDs and BD disks come with a calibration utility. If you have The Incredibles, there is a THX optimizer which will get you in the ballpark.
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post #17 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 03:03 PM
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With the OP's current setting I doubt he will get the same WOW factor on an HD DVD player. I have tried the Tosh A35 and by far the panny has a better PQ...both hi def and SD disks.

cheezz

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post #18 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 03:49 PM
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Sharpness too high + EE don't look good, it look Digital and processed... film don't look like this at all...

The goal of HDM is to bring the quality of the master closer to the original film stock. DVD failed miserably doing this, and the more the time advance, the worst it's getting by month, in 2007 i've seen one of the worst DVD encode i ever saw, just for the sake of include special features..

89+ Blu-ray Disc ;)
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post #19 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jizaref1 View Post

My display is a Sony 52XBR2 1080p.
My output on PS3 is also 1080p.
My Onkyo605 is not set to do any video processing.
And I have sharpness and color turned up on LCD settings.

Turn the sharpness down ALL THE WAY. It serves no purpose except to add noise.

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post #20 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 06:49 PM
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I have the PS3 and Onkyo 605 going to a Samsung 5884 (plasma) and it looks great. I'm forcing 1080p/24 to the TV from the PS3 and it works great. Blu-ray movies are fabulous and so is HDTV. Maybe your expectations were too high or maybe you're TV isn't doing a very good job. Maybe it needs a tune, I don't know. I've seen some movies on blu-ray that look fabulous and some that are OK, but still much better than DVD.
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post #21 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mosman22 View Post

I have my ps3 going through my 705 on hdmi to my 52 XBR 4 and it is simply stunning. I thought apocalypto looked beautiful. Especially the seens in the mayan village the colors just popped off the screen. Have you tried planet earth if that doesn't pop there is something seriously wrong with your setup.

What settings do you use for:
1) your XBR, especially color, sharpness, edge enhancement, etc. I followed petmic XBR settings in another forum thread, except I keep my color and sharpness higher.
2) your receiver, anything I should be adjusting here?
3) Your PS3 - there are so many settings such as RGB, BTB, etc etc I want to make sure I didn't mess something up.

Planet earth was truly amazing, I am just looking for the pop and depth in everything else...
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post #22 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 09:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okiedigger View Post

I have the PS3 and Onkyo 605 going to a Samsung 5884 (plasma) and it looks great. I'm forcing 1080p/24 to the TV from the PS3 and it works great. Blu-ray movies are fabulous and so is HDTV. Maybe your expectations were too high or maybe you're TV isn't doing a very good job. Maybe it needs a tune, I don't know. I've seen some movies on blu-ray that look fabulous and some that are OK, but still much better than DVD.

I guess my question is what someone else stated above: sometimes an HD broadcast on FIOS TV looks better than my BD played from a PS3. Is this sometimes the case?

BDs are way better than DVD, just not what the hyper led me to expect. I guess that is why I turn sharpness up some, to get some edge without distortion that brings out the sharp detail clarity.

Thanks.
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post #23 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 09:58 PM
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Some HD broadcast can look better than some BDs.

But sharpness needs to be at zero. There might also be to much contrast on the thing. I think you might want to check the LCD area for some calibration settings.

You want image depth. That's what gives it the 3D look.
Apocalypto and KoH are sharp so it's definently a calibration thing.

You can't cant have too high expectations with BD. Every image is mind blowing. I actually sat through all of Hairspray.

Ridiculous codec tier sig gone. Still AVC/24bit lossless fanboy.

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Most Major studios>Small Studios>dogs>cats>Warner(the guys that do new movies)
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post #24 of 42 Old 11-22-2007, 10:09 PM
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Sounds like you don't have dot by dot or 1/1 mode enabled. Without this feature enabled the set overscans and scales the picture up, reducing overall sharpness and clarity. Also, try some different discs. Some movies are just not that sharp. i thought the Prestige and Corpse Bride are two very great looking BD discs, very comparable to King and Transformers on HD (my two favorites from that side).

When I put my Sharp LCD in standard mode (as opposed to dot by dot) the sharpness is significantly reduced. Dot by Dot shows you exactly what the source looks like.

I Like Digital!
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post #25 of 42 Old 11-23-2007, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Category 5 View Post

Sounds like you don't have dot by dot or 1/1 mode enabled. Without this feature enabled the set overscans and scales the picture up, reducing overall sharpness and clarity. Also, try some different discs. Some movies are just not that sharp. i thought the Prestige and Corpse Bride are two very great looking BD discs, very comparable to King and Transformers on HD (my two favorites from that side).

When I put my Sharp LCD in standard mode (as opposed to dot by dot) the sharpness is significantly reduced. Dot by Dot shows you exactly what the source looks like.

I checked, I do have Dot to Dot enabled, XBR2 "full pixel".
Corpse Bride looked very sharp with good color saturation, one of the best really. I am just not seeing the 3D depth as much. Most 3D pop effects comes with large landscape scenes, trees and grass and distance. Other action and human scenes seem more flat. That is why I turned sharpness up, but I guess everyone says to turn it down to look more "natural". Maybe it is just personal taste.
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post #26 of 42 Old 11-23-2007, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jizaref1 View Post

I checked, I do have Dot to Dot enabled, XBR2 "full pixel".
Maybe it is just personal taste.

I think you've hit the nail on the head and what others have been trying to say. When you combine personal taste with perception/expectations...I think that maybe what is at issue.

I would try to run directly to the TV...just to rule out the receiver causing some change in the image.

There are so many factors that can effect an image from the source to the screen, that we all won't agree with what I are seeing for a given image. I normally agree with Widescreen Reviews take on image on dvd etc. I recently read their take on Evan Almighty's SD release....they liked the PQ....NO WAY....it sucked.

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post #27 of 42 Old 01-02-2008, 05:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rboster View Post

I think you've hit the nail on the head and what others have been trying to say. When you combine personal taste with perception/expectations...I think that maybe what is at issue.

I would try to run directly to the TV...just to rule out the receiver causing some change in the image.

There are so many factors that can effect an image from the source to the screen, that we all won't agree with what I are seeing for a given image. I normally agree with Widescreen Reviews take on image on dvd etc. I recently read their take on Evan Almighty's SD release....they liked the PQ....NO WAY....it sucked.

Ron


Could it also have something to do with the connections?

My Verizon FiOS Motorola HD DVR is connected via optical. Would HDMI make any difference?
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post #28 of 42 Old 01-02-2008, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jizaref1 View Post

My Verizon FiOS Motorola HD DVR is connected via optical.

OPTICAL has NOTHING to do with your PICTURE quality ... it is for the SOUND!
Quote:


Would HDMI make any difference?

HDMI/DVI will likely be the highest quality connection available. What are you using now for the video??

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post #29 of 42 Old 01-02-2008, 06:51 AM
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I currently own HDTVs with all of the major technologies (Toshiba LCD, Panasonic Plasma, Toshiba DLP RPTV, JVC LCoS RPTV and previously Sony CRT front projectors), and I really do not believe that any LCD flat panel HDTV can produce the WOW factor that you can get from the best of the other technologies. Generally this is due to the poorer black levels and contrast ratio of the LCDs as compared to the best TVs of the other technologies. Also the full benefits of 1080p from BD or HD-DVD can best be realized with a large screen (e.g., 65" and up) at the viewing distances most typical in a living or family room setting. Unless you are watching a 52" LCD with full 1080p native resolution from less than approx. 7 ft. away you aren't really seeing the full benefits of the 1080p resolution.

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post #30 of 42 Old 01-02-2008, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

I really do not believe that any LCD flat panel HDTV can produce the WOW factor

What he said.
Quote:


Unless you are watching a 52" LCD with full 1080p native resolution from less than approx. 7 ft. away you aren't really seeing the full benefits of the 1080p resolution.

This applies to all technologies.

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