OFFICIAL "HELP ME CHOOSE A PLAYER" THREAD: Can't decide? Start HERE. - Page 102 - AVS Forum
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post #3031 of 17333 Old 12-01-2008, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max1227 View Post

Regarding posts #3005, 3007, 3008, 3009: I guess we should rename this thread The read Official "Help the guy pick a Blu-Ray Player" but only after he has spent hours researching the question first Thread.

IMO - if you don't want to answer a question don't - but don't be rude to someone asking for help on this post!

I don't think people mind helping others, we're here to share information. But to state that you don't have time to read anything except replies to your own question just rubs me the wrong way.

Flame off
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post #3032 of 17333 Old 12-01-2008, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by hipchecker View Post

They have boxes of them at the store, not online. I read somewhere the BD35 is going on sale soon.

Also, Costco does NOT have a lifetime warranty on electronics anymore. It's now one year I believe. Too many people were breaking items on purpose and then returning them.

If I was Costco I would have changed it too. Nothing lasts forever.


If I call can they get me one? there is no Costco anywhere around here?
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post #3033 of 17333 Old 12-01-2008, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by hipchecker View Post

They have boxes of them at the store, not online. I read somewhere the BD35 is going on sale soon.

Also, Costco does NOT have a lifetime warranty on electronics anymore. It's now one year I believe. Too many people were breaking items on purpose and then returning them.

If I was Costco I would have changed it too. Nothing lasts forever.

Wrong. Costco still offers a "lifetime" warranty on almost all electronics (and other products) that they sell, with the exception of a few things as other people mentioned (mp3 players, televisions, computers, etc).

Let me put it to you this way. I returned a two year old Toshiba A2 HD DVD player to them with original box, receipt, etc, and they simply said "ya, they lost that format war didn't they" and I left with $250 cash in my pocket.

DVD players (and by proxy BD players) have a LIFETIME warranty at Costco. It is without a doubt the best place to buy a BD player, period as long as you plan on maintaining your membership with them (you won't get a refund if you don't maintain your membership).
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post #3034 of 17333 Old 12-01-2008, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max1227 View Post

Regarding posts #3005, 3007, 3008, 3009: I guess we should rename this thread “The read Official "Help the guy pick a Blu-Ray Player" but only after he has spent hours researching the question first Thread.”

IMO - if you don't want to answer a question don't - but don't be rude to someone asking for help on this post!

I 2nd that.........

And after reading just a Few of these recent Post it all comes back to me.....

Why I Stopped coming to this Forum.........

(SOME)........ Extremely RUDE Members.............

tigerhonaker
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post #3035 of 17333 Old 12-01-2008, 08:52 PM
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Hey all,

I'm thinking about asking for a player for Christmas and I had a few questions. First of all, I'd prefer not to have my family spend more than $200. Sam's Club has the Sony BDP-BX1 for $197 and Amazon has the Samsung BD-P1500 for $199. However, I'm not sure if Sam's Club is an option or how long the Amazon deal will last.

Are the Sony BDP-BX1 and Samsung BD-P1500 decent at those price points? If for some reason I can't get one of those and decide to just ask for a Blu-Ray player, how much of a loss in player quality would result from getting a non-Sony/Samsung/Panny? Are the $150-$199 Magnavox/Memorex/Insignias/etc. worth getting? Should I watch local retailers (Best Buy, Target, Wal-Mart) for sales over the next three weeks - how likely is it that I'll see a particularly good model drop to around $199?

Secondly, for the next couple of months I'd be using the player with a 19" monitor that I use for my PC/360. I use VGA for both of those and have a free DVI port. Should a general HDMI to DVI cable work fine? Would there be a significant loss in quality?

I'm still trying to decide if it's worth getting a player this Christmas, but my options are basically get a Blu-Ray Player or get a bunch of stuff I don't really need or want. Thanks for any and all help you can provide. I appreciate it.

-Eric
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post #3036 of 17333 Old 12-01-2008, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric WK View Post

Hey all,

I'm thinking about asking for a player for Christmas and I had a few questions. First of all, I'd prefer not to have my family spend more than $200. Sam's Club has the Sony BDP-BX1 for $197 and Amazon has the Samsung BD-P1500 for $199. However, I'm not sure if Sam's Club is an option or how long the Amazon deal will last.

Are the Sony BDP-BX1 and Samsung BD-P1500 decent at those price points? If for some reason I can't get one of those and decide to just ask for a Blu-Ray player, how much of a loss in player quality would result from getting a non-Sony/Samsung/Panny? Are the $150-$199 Magnavox/Memorex/Insignias/etc. worth getting? Should I watch local retailers (Best Buy, Target, Wal-Mart) for sales over the next three weeks - how likely is it that I'll see a particularly good model drop to around $199?

Secondly, for the next couple of months I'd be using the player with a 19" monitor that I use for my PC/360. I use VGA for both of those and have a free DVI port. Should a general HDMI to DVI cable work fine? Would there be a significant loss in quality?

I'm still trying to decide if it's worth getting a player this Christmas, but my options are basically get a Blu-Ray Player or get a bunch of stuff I don't really need or want. Thanks for any and all help you can provide. I appreciate it.

-Eric

Well Amazon has the BD35 for $199 right now.I would take that over the Sony or Sammy IMO.
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post #3037 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric WK View Post

Hey all,

I'm thinking about asking for a player for Christmas and I had a few questions. First of all, I'd prefer not to have my family spend more than $200. Sam's Club has the Sony BDP-BX1 for $197 and Amazon has the Samsung BD-P1500 for $199. However, I'm not sure if Sam's Club is an option or how long the Amazon deal will last.

Are the Sony BDP-BX1 and Samsung BD-P1500 decent at those price points? If for some reason I can't get one of those and decide to just ask for a Blu-Ray player, how much of a loss in player quality would result from getting a non-Sony/Samsung/Panny? Are the $150-$199 Magnavox/Memorex/Insignias/etc. worth getting? Should I watch local retailers (Best Buy, Target, Wal-Mart) for sales over the next three weeks - how likely is it that I'll see a particularly good model drop to around $199?

Secondly, for the next couple of months I'd be using the player with a 19" monitor that I use for my PC/360. I use VGA for both of those and have a free DVI port. Should a general HDMI to DVI cable work fine? Would there be a significant loss in quality?

I'm still trying to decide if it's worth getting a player this Christmas, but my options are basically get a Blu-Ray Player or get a bunch of stuff I don't really need or want. Thanks for any and all help you can provide. I appreciate it.

-Eric

Between the two, I'd avoid the Sammy.
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post #3038 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 09:00 AM
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I have a Sunfire Ultimate receive which lacks HDMI inputs, but has optical digital inputs. For video I can use the HDMI output directly to my projector. Audio is my concern. I know the 55 has analogue audio outputs which my sunfire would accept as inputs. But if I buy the BD35 and use HDMI only for video, will it still output digital through the optical outlet, or will it only output higher res digital signals my Sunfire won't be able to process?

Thanks in advance for your answers.
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post #3039 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LifewithMusic View Post

I have a Sunfire Ultimate receive which lacks HDMI inputs, but has optical digital inputs. For video I can use the HDMI output directly to my projector. Audio is my concern. I know the 55 has analogue audio outputs which my sunfire would accept as inputs. But if I buy the BD35 and use HDMI only for video, will it still output digital through the optical outlet, or will it only output higher res digital signals my Sunfire won't be able to process?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

This question has been covered ad naseum. For the (literally) hundredth time. You can't pass the new audio codecs over optical or coax, only HDMI or via analog outputs from the player to your AVR.
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post #3040 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LifewithMusic View Post

I have a Sunfire Ultimate receive which lacks HDMI inputs, but has optical digital inputs. For video I can use the HDMI output directly to my projector. Audio is my concern. I know the 55 has analogue audio outputs which my sunfire would accept as inputs. But if I buy the BD35 and use HDMI only for video, will it still output digital through the optical outlet, or will it only output higher res digital signals my Sunfire won't be able to process?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

If you get the BD35 you'll still get standard DD/DTS. If you plan on keeping the Sunfire for awhile I'd get the 55 and take advantage of lossless audio.
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post #3041 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LifewithMusic View Post

If I buy the BD35 and use HDMI only for video, will it still output digital through the optical outlet, or will it only output higher res digital signals my Sunfire won't be able to process?

Yes, all BD players output DD and DTS over optical. The player software knows to use the DTS core or a companion DD 5.1 track instead of the lossless version for output over optical or coax. These legacy formats are encoded at higher bitrates than DVD and sound excellent. You may or may not hear an improvement using analog for lossless.
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post #3042 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Donnie Eldridge View Post

If you get the BD35 you'll still get standard DD/DTS. If you plan on keeping the Sunfire for awhile I'd get the 55 and take advantage of lossless audio.

I was at a hi end a/v store and was told the same thing. Sales guy said for anyone with receivers that DONT have HDMI that you should defnitely purchase a bd player that can decode everything and that the order of audio offering the best results in sound is in this order:

1st- HDMI
2nd- Analog Input (if you have 7.1 inputs on receiver)
3rd- Optical/Coaxial
4th- L/R RCA (used for those getting sound thru tv)

I was surprise to see that analog was 2nd choice over optical.
Can anybody explain this?
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post #3043 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by kclark View Post

I was at a hi end a/v store and was told the same thing. Sales guy said for anyone with receivers that DONT have HDMI that you should defnitely purchase a bd player that can decode everything and that the order of audio offering the best results in sound is in this order:

1st- HDMI
2nd- Analog Input (if you have 7.1 inputs on receiver)
3rd- Optical/Coaxial
4th- L/R RCA (used for those getting sound thru tv)

I was surprise to see that analog was 2nd choice over optical.
Can anybody explain this?

Optical doesn't pass through the new lossless formats like True HD and DTS MA. HDMI does, and if the player decodes these formats and your receiver has 7.1 analog inputs it can be transmitted that way as well.

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post #3044 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by kclark View Post

I was at a hi end a/v store and was told the same thing. Sales guy said for anyone with receivers that DONT have HDMI that you should defnitely purchase a bd player that can decode everything and that the order of audio offering the best results in sound is in this order:

1st- HDMI
2nd- Analog Input (if you have 7.1 inputs on receiver)
3rd- Optical/Coaxial
4th- L/R RCA (used for those getting sound thru tv)

I was surprise to see that analog was 2nd choice over optical.
Can anybody explain this?

First of all, HDMI is not better than analog. With HDMI, digital is converted to analog in the receiver. With analog, the conversion happens in the player. It doesn't matter where the conversion takes place. The differences are introduced by the quality of the DACs and the processing that takes place prior to the digital-analog conversion. Usually, receivers have better DACs and processing tools, which makes HDMI the preferred path. But, if the player is better in those areas, then it will produce better analog audio than the receiver.

Optical is third because of politics, not engineering. The studios will not permit HD codecs or multichannel PCM to be sent over optical because there's no copy protection. HDMI and analog are better because the specs permit them to send better audio.

Also, it's not certain that lossless is actually better that the versions of DD and DTS that are used on BD. The legacy formats are encoded at higher bitrates on BD than DVD. Some say they sound every bit as good as lossless.

Finally, stereo can still be lossless and very high quality. It's only two channels. But, that's not a measure of audio quality.
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post #3045 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 10:50 AM
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It's quite the hot topic whether the DSP and DAC in an AVR will somehow produce better audio than if the player decodes the audio and sends it as analog or PCM over HDMI.

I'm personally under the impression that even the snobbiest of audio snobs would have a hard time in a blind test telling the difference between audio decoded by a player and sent as PCM or bitstreamed digital audio sent to an AVR for decode and processing.
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post #3046 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

It's quite the hot topic whether the DSP and DAC in an AVR will somehow produce better audio than if the player decodes the audio and sends it as analog or PCM over HDMI.

I'm personally under the impression that even the snobbiest of audio snobs would have a hard time in a blind test telling the difference between audio decoded by a player and sent as PCM or bitstreamed digital audio sent to an AVR for decode and processing.

LOL -- Especially if they are close to my age! My wife speaks in 7.1 stereo and I hardly understand her at all (she says).

It would be really smart for people to purchase an inexpensive hearing test CD (you can get one for about ten bucks or prob download free). Test your hearing and see if you hear well enough to spend all the money. In my case, if I can understand what the actors are saying without having to turn on the subtitles, that is an excellent audio rendering!

I think jmpage2 hits the nail squarely on the head.
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post #3047 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 12:35 PM
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I'm awaiting the arrival of a Denon AVR-1909 and am now looking at a blu-ray player. Two seem to stand out for the price.

Panasonic BD35 and the Sharp BD-HP21U, both are around the same price and I was wondering if people had opinions of one over the other.

Oh, my TV is an older Sony Wega HDTV KD30XS955. I'm still waiting to see if anyone will ever make a LCD that will in a 37 1/3 W x 39 1/2 H armoire and have 120hz refresh rate (I watch a lot of sports). So far I only see 60hz 37" wide screens.
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post #3048 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

It's quite the hot topic whether the DSP and DAC in an AVR will somehow produce better audio than if the player decodes the audio and sends it as analog or PCM over HDMI.

It's only hot amongst people who spent too much money for useless features, and are trying to justify the wasted money.

The receiver's DACs still have to process PCM (which is still a digital format), and the receiver's DSP still (usually) processes the MCH LPCM, all just the same whether the decoding happens in the player or in the receiver (assuming there's any decoding at all; sometimes the disc's lossless audio is already uncompressed).

Decoding DTS-MA or TrueHD is an either/or situation: either the result is lossless audio identical to the original in every way, or the decoder is broken. Not really a subjective matter.

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post #3049 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

The receiver's DACs still have to process PCM (which is still a digital format), and the receiver's DSP still (usually) processes the MCH LPCM, all just the same whether the decoding happens in the player or in the receiver (assuming there's any decoding at all; sometimes the disc's lossless audio is already uncompressed).

Decoding DTS-MA or TrueHD is an either/or situation: either the result is lossless audio identical to the original in every way, or the decoder is broken. Not really a subjective matter.

I think you missed the part about using analog out of the player, which introduces two variables - the player's digital processing and the player's DACs.
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post #3050 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 12:59 PM
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Hi all,

I'm going to get my dad a blueray player for Christmas to go with his Pioneer Kuro. I have chosen three and of the three which one would you get. We're in Vancouver so I don't believe the Netflix option on the Samsung would be a relevant. He does have an extensive DVD collection though. He has an older Denon receiver that he will be using. The choices are

Samsung - BD-P2550
Sony - BDPS550

Both of these player are the same price. Or

Panasonic - DMPBD35 (this player is $20 cheaper)

Thanks.
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post #3051 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 01:21 PM
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I'm dumping my Samsung 1400 after one year because I'm so tired of it not playing discs that play fine in other players. I don't care about audio being HD, lossless, etc., so I've narrowed it down to...
~ Panasonic 35k OR
~ Sony 350

So, "help a guy pick a Blu-Ray player" lol
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post #3052 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

I think you missed the part about using analog out of the player, which introduces two variables - the player's digital processing and the player's DACs.

No, I was referring to the quoted "...or PCM."

If you have a receiver or pre/pro that only has analog inputs, then obviously analog outs on a player aren't a "useless feature," and I wasn't talking about them.

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post #3053 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by sigmaace01 View Post

I'm dumping my Samsung 1400 after one year because I'm so tired of it not playing discs that play fine in other players. I don't care about audio being HD, lossless, etc., so I've narrowed it down to...
~ Panasonic 35k OR
~ Sony 350

So, "help a guy pick a Blu-Ray player" lol

They are both outstanding players. The Sony has a slightly better menu system for some of the features, setup, etc.

The Panasonic sports marginally faster load times, slightly better up-conversion and internal decoding of the DTS-MA format.

If both players were at the same price I would buy the Panasonic, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy the Sony if it was available for a better price.
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post #3054 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

They are both outstanding players. The Sony has a slightly better menu system for some of the features, setup, etc.

The Panasonic sports marginally faster load times, slightly better up-conversion and internal decoding of the DTS-MA format.

If both players were at the same price I would buy the Panasonic, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy the Sony if it was available for a better price.

I'm in the same boat (looks like both BD35 from Sears and S350 from Sony may ship) Both were the same price.
Would the fact that I am keeping Pioneer 1014 receiver for a couple more years make one more appropriate than the other?
OM
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post #3055 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ObviousMan View Post

I'm in the same boat (looks like both BD35 from Sears and S350 from Sony may ship) Both were the same price.
Would the fact that I am keeping Pioneer 1014 receiver for a couple more years make one more appropriate than the other?
OM

Actually since your Pioneer has 5.1 analog inputs and no HDMI you want the Sony BDPS550 or the BD55K from Panasonic if you want to take advantage of the new lossless audio formats.

Alternatively either player will pass DTS and old DD over coax or toslink to your Pioneer AVR.
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post #3056 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

I think you missed the part about using analog out of the player, which introduces two variables - the player's digital processing and the player's DACs.

Right. I'm approaching 50 years old, with tinitus from too much and too loud rock-n-roll in my younger days, and I can still EASILY discern a good DAC from a crappy one. In some (many) cases I would take the DTS 1.5 on SPDIF into a good AVR over lossess analog out of a budget player into ANYTHING. Once the damage is done, no amount of clean power can fix it.

To answer the question about a $100 player vs. a $1000 player, I would guess (hope) it's mostly in the reference clock and power supply (the essential elements to good D/A conversion!).
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post #3057 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 04:03 PM
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An update. I am still trying to understand the audio part of this Blue-Ray deal and thought this info would help. Again have narrowed my choices down to the Sony 55/35 or the Panny 35k/55k but am not sure which one I should go with given my receiver. Can someone give me an idea of how I would hook it up to my Onkyo HT-S780. Pic of the rear can be found here (http://tairona.idg.com.au//mim.php/p...resid/2/s/1707). It does not have HDMI but Optical and COAX only? Here are the audio specs on it.

Processing
Dolby
*2
Digital EX and Dolby Pro Logic IIx
DTS, DTS-ES Matrix/Discrete, DTS Neo:6, and DTS
96/24 processing
*3
Cinema Filter function
Linear PCM 192 kHz/24-bit D/A converters on all
channels
Pure Audio listening mode (not North American
model)
Powerful and highly accurate 32-bit DSP Processing
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post #3058 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mlw911 View Post

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An update. I am still trying to understand the audio part of this Blue-Ray deal and thought this info would help. Again have narrowed my choices down to the Sony 55/35 or the Panny 35k/55k but am not sure which one I should go with given my receiver. Can someone give me an idea of how I would hook it up to my Onkyo HT-S780. Pic of the rear can be found here (http://tairona.idg.com.au//mim.php/p...resid/2/s/1707). It does not have HDMI but Optical and COAX only? Here are the audio specs on it.

Processing
• Dolby
*2
Digital EX and Dolby Pro Logic IIx
• DTS, DTS-ES Matrix/Discrete, DTS Neo:6, and DTS
96/24 processing
*3
• Cinema Filter function
• Linear PCM 192 kHz/24-bit D/A converters on all
channels
• Pure Audio listening mode (not North American
model)
• Powerful and highly accurate 32-bit DSP Processing

After finally getting a good look at the back of the receiver it appears to have 7.1 analog inputs as stated by minuccims. Go for the S550 or the BD55.
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post #3059 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 08:30 PM
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Okay, so I've been looking at BD players for a while now, and I think I'm settled on the BD35. I have an extensive DVD collection, and want a player with excellent upconversion. The BD35, I've heard, is decent in upconversion, but there are others with better upconversion. I have a dedicated upconverter, the Phillips DVP5990. Does anyone know if the Phillips does upconversion better than the BD player? If it does I'll keep it. If not, than there is no reason for me to keep both.
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post #3060 of 17333 Old 12-02-2008, 08:39 PM
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I was unable to open your picture but I did find several refererences that indicate the Onkyo HT-S790 has 5.1-channel audio inputs for connecting an SACD or DVD-Audio player. If so, then the 7.1 analog outputs of the Panny 55K will decode the latest formats and sent the analog outputs to your receiver. Your receiver will amplify each channel as received; all surround processing is bypassed.

The 35k pushes both multichannel audio and HD video thru HDMI 1.3a. If you had a newer receiver that supports HDMI 1.3a, this is the best option. I'm in a similar situation as you; I have a HTR-6090 with HDMI 1.2 and 7.1 multichannel inputs.
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