OFFICIAL "HELP ME CHOOSE A PLAYER" THREAD: Can't decide? Start HERE. - Page 178 - AVS Forum
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post #5311 of 16959 Old 05-11-2009, 08:39 PM
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After reading many of these pages I have learned this from you all ( many thanks, btw) that (1) Even though I have an older receiver( Onkyo tx-ds494 ) that will take analog 5.1 as well as optical and coax, that the analog 5.1 can give me lossless audio IF the BD player does the decode, and this is the superior audio quality to the other two, yes? (2) I have a Samsung HL61A750 and a lot of SD-DVD's so I should be particular on a BD players ability for upscaling PQ. My conclusion is, that since I cannot drop the $499 on the Oppo much as i would love to, I want to be under $300 USD so it is the Pioneer BDP-51FD or Samsung 2500. Did i miss a unit based on the criteria I used? Did I neglect an important criteria? (I'm thinking loading speed right now at which both are slow)
Thanks again fellow AVS'ers,
Lar
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post #5312 of 16959 Old 05-11-2009, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laramie55 View Post

(1) Even though I have an older receiver( Onkyo tx-ds494 ) that will take analog 5.1 as well as optical and coax, that the analog 5.1 can give me lossless audio IF the BD player does the decode, and this is the superior audio quality to the other two, yes?

The lossy DTS core and DD 5.1 at the bitrates used on BD also sound great, perhaps as good as lossless. So, sure, analog out of a player that decodes all formats gives you lossless. But, you may not notice much, if any, improvement over the optical or coax outputs.

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(2)I want to be under $300 USD so it is the Pioneer BDP-51FD or Samsung 2500. Did i miss a unit based on the criteria I used? Did I neglect an important criteria? (I'm thinking loading speed right now at which both are slow)

Take a look at the Panasonics and Sonys. If you want analog outputs, those units might not hit your $300 target price, though. I have BD55 and it's a great unit.

The 51FD still doesn't have dts-MA decoding, although it really looks to be finally on the way as soon as June. It's also very slow and doesn't handle DVD layer changes very well. But, of course, it gets strong reviews for video and analog audio.
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post #5313 of 16959 Old 05-11-2009, 10:24 PM
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It seem like Oppo is still a great BRP to get but I am still considering if I need those feature. Or rather, maybe Panny 60 might just fit in the bill.

I am still in e stage of dilemma.
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post #5314 of 16959 Old 05-12-2009, 05:16 AM
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Thanks for the reply BIslander. I have been quite satisfied with "lossy" audio up to now and have never heard "lossless" to compare. If it is not so dramatic as all that I could stand it a while longer and get in with the Sony BPD-s360 which supposedly does good upscaling and with (alleged) good loading speeds or the Panasonic 60 which seems to have a good reputation overall. Both these brands have been good to me since my first video decks in the late '70's. Guess I could even go cheap into the Sylvania and wait for this BD market to make more sense. Look at the Panny 55 on big river- costs more than the new to-of-the-line by far.
Thanks again,
Lar
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post #5315 of 16959 Old 05-12-2009, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josho View Post

Comparing with Panny BD60 and Oppo BD 83, which is the better choice to get it? It seem way better then LG370 in any way tho.

Or, I am thinking that I should maybe just go for PS3 but is true that having a dedicated BluRay Player is more appropriate?

josho,

You have a big gap both price and feature set wise between the Panasonic BD60 and the Oppo BDP-83. What features are important to you? Also, there are 2 players from Panasonic & Pioneer between the BD60 & BDP-83 that you may not have considered. A better comparison would include the Oppo BDP-83, Pioneer BDP-320FD or the Panasonic BD-80. I would line these players up side by side and see which best satisfy your needs. Since, you are considering the Oppo the other 2 players are definitely within your price range.


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post #5316 of 16959 Old 05-12-2009, 07:29 AM
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Ok, I set my mind on Panny 60 and hoping to see it in store real soon over at my country. Finger cross. Oppo may be good, but the cost does not justify for me since I am not actually running a real HT room afterall with great fantastic sound system.
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post #5317 of 16959 Old 05-12-2009, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

The lossy DTS core and DD 5.1 at the bitrates used on BD also sound great, perhaps as good as lossless. So, sure, analog out of a player that decodes all formats gives you lossless. But, you may not notice much, if any, improvement over the optical or coax outputs.

Also, lossless over analog 5.1 sounds worse than legacy DTS/DD 5.1 on my Sharp HP20, so buyers can't assume lossless over 5.1 is an improvement, it'll depend on the player and the receiver.
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post #5318 of 16959 Old 05-12-2009, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VarmintCong View Post

Also, lossless over analog 5.1 sounds worse than legacy DTS/DD 5.1 on my Sharp HP20, so buyers can't assume lossless over 5.1 is an improvement, it'll depend on the player and the receiver.

Excellent point. Most AVRs provide finer control of parameters like crossover frequency, speaker timing, bass management, etc. for the optical inputs than most BD players do for their analog outputs. Given that the legacy tracks on BDs are usually high-bitrate and therefore very close to the SQ of lossless already, it's no surprise when legacy sometimes still sounds better.

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post #5319 of 16959 Old 05-12-2009, 02:48 PM
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I haven't purchased blu-ray yet because I was under the false hope that an affordable blu-ray recorder would be released by now. As that's not about to come to pass, I'm hoping to pull the trigger on getting a blu-ray player.

My general question is whether the up conversion on blu-ray players is only to 1080p, or whether it will do just fine to a 1080i television. Like the heading says, I'm not inclined to upgrade the TV just yet.

The accompanying question is whether 1080p blu-ray discs will be down-converted to 1080i without much of a hitch.

So the punchline question is should I not even bother with blu-ray until I can upgrade my TV (hopefully the answer is no), and if not, what do I need to know about using blu-ray with a late HD CRT set.

If the answer depends on which player, which I imagine it might, then note that I'm looking in the $250-$300 range (leaning towards the Sony 360 or perhaps 550).

Thanks.

Jim
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post #5320 of 16959 Old 05-12-2009, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by zooey91 View Post

If the answer depends on which player, which I imagine it might, then note that I'm looking in the $250-$300 range (leaning towards the Sony 360 or perhaps 550).

Jim-

You are fine with just about any Blu Ray player. There really isn't any significant translation with Blu Ray discs at 1080p and the conversion to 1080i so the end result is identical. All Blu Ray players that I can think of will output 1080i over HDMI.

If your TV requires component video, note that not all Blu Ray players include component outputs...so shop carefully and you will be fine. Note: DVD's will typically not be up converted to 1080i over analog connections.
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post #5321 of 16959 Old 05-12-2009, 03:24 PM
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Thanks for the further feedback (no pun intended) on comparative audio tracks. I'm doing this HT while currently out of work so I've "upgraded" my speakers to (4) reasonably Polk M10's to go with a sub, which should give me a more noticeable improvement for the dollar. Now a simple $100 decision on the BD player. Upper end, the Sony s360 ( seems for my criteria(UPconv PQ, coax out) to edge out the Panny 60 ) while at the entry level the Syvania 500 or 501( whatever the diff is). Leaning toward the Sony b/c of better SDdvd PQ.
Thanks again, oh yeah, just tthought i'd mention that there is a "chart" thread here on AVS that seems to show the Sony s360 having 7.1 analog out. To best of my knowledge it doesn't. Don't see how to make link but here it is:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1050507

Regards,
Lar
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post #5322 of 16959 Old 05-12-2009, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluechunks View Post

Jim-

You are fine with just about any Blu Ray player. There really isn't any significant translation with Blu Ray discs at 1080p and the conversion to 1080i so the end result is identical. All Blu Ray players that I can think of will output 1080i over HDMI.

If your TV requires component video, note that not all Blu Ray players include component outputs...so shop carefully and you will be fine. Note: DVD's will typically not be up converted to 1080i over analog connections.

Thanks for the info.

My TV has a DVI input, which I believe will not degrade the HDMI video stream (right??). I just need to get an HDI-DVI cable, and use the optical or coax digital audio output of the player for audio.
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post #5323 of 16959 Old 05-12-2009, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zooey91 View Post

Thanks for the info.

My TV has a DVI input, which I believe will not degrade the HDMI video stream (right??).

Maybe.

You will be fine IF the DVI port supports HDCP copy protection. This was added to the DVI spec after it was introduced, and many early DVI sets do not support HDCP and many later ones do.
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post #5324 of 16959 Old 05-12-2009, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bluechunks View Post

Maybe.

You will be fine IF the DVI port supports HDCP copy protection. This was added to the DVI spec after it was introduced, and many early DVI sets do not support HDCP and many later ones do.

Hmmm, the plot thickens. . . . . I'm pretty sure it does, but not positive. I have the Sony KV-30XBR910.

So if it doesn't have HDCP I'm SOL until I get a new TV?
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post #5325 of 16959 Old 05-12-2009, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zooey91 View Post

I have the Sony KV-30XBR910.

So if it doesn't have HDCP I'm SOL ...

You are good to go, that set has HDCP.

(FWIW, I have had good luck with my HDMI-to-DVI cable from AVS sponsor Monoprice.com)
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post #5326 of 16959 Old 05-12-2009, 06:33 PM
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I need help.

I had an LG BD 370 for 2 weeks--it was our first Blu-ray player and owner-ship was bittersweet. We really appreciated the instant tray access, but issues with streaming DTS-HD MA to two different receivers frustrated me to the point of returning it.

So now I need a different player. Here's what I'm considering:
  • Pioneer BDP-51fd -- Owners seem really happy with it. I know SD DVD layer changes are slow, some players have been recalled, and there are a handful of Blu and DVD movies that have issues.
  • Pioneer BDP-320 -- It's the new version of the 51fd just in shorter clothes. Same load times, same SD DVD layer pauses. Provides Profile 2.0 that the 51fd doesn't, but I don't think that matters to me.
  • Panasonic DMP-BD60 - I admit to not knowing much about this one. I still need to research it, but I've had people tell me that Panasonic players are solid.

Any suggestions? My priority is that it works properly. If it's supposed to stream lossless audio, then it should work for all types. Profile 1.1 minimum--I don't think we'll use BD-Live. Netflix, Youtube, Pandora aren't necessary.

My Media Room Construction thread. Work began 2/15/05, finished 7.1 install 6/2005. Sold house 7/2007.
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post #5327 of 16959 Old 05-13-2009, 01:59 PM
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What is the best sub-$300 player with the best combination of durability and quality. Features aren't all that important, I just want it to be a damn good player. I do not have an audio receiver and I will be running it to a 37" 1080p television.
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post #5328 of 16959 Old 05-13-2009, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MrShackleford View Post

What is the best sub-$300 player with the best combination of durability and quality. Features aren't all that important, I just want it to be a damn good player. I do not have an audio receiver and I will be running it to a 37" 1080p television.

Panasonic BD60
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post #5329 of 16959 Old 05-13-2009, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Toeside View Post

I need help.

...

Any suggestions? My priority is that it works properly.

This says Panasonic to me. It's exactly why I went with them even though there were features on other players I really wanted (Netflix). When it comes down to it working is the most important feature by far. So far I'm not disappointed at all.
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post #5330 of 16959 Old 05-13-2009, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by maxBR View Post

This says Panasonic to me. It's exactly why I went with them even though there were features on other players I really wanted (Netflix). When it comes down to it working is the most important feature by far. So far I'm not disappointed at all.

Those other features, though not important to me, kept me from looking at Panasonic 2 weeks ago. I'm not sure why, either.

Today, I went ahead and bought the BD60 and just hooked it up. FW 1.5 is installing now and I'll be ready to test it out. (And my red2blu order arrived, so I have more movies to test with now, too!)

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post #5331 of 16959 Old 05-13-2009, 05:09 PM
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I'm down to deciding between the Sony BDP-S360 and the Panasonic DMP-BD60. Is one better than the other? I forgot to mention standard dvd playback is pretty important.
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post #5332 of 16959 Old 05-14-2009, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrShackleford View Post

What is the best sub-$300 player with the best combination of durability and quality. Features aren't all that important, I just want it to be a damn good player. I do not have an audio receiver and I will be running it to a 37" 1080p television.

For that size screen and no AV, almost anything is going to be over-kill. Go to amazon and look for refurb Panasonic BDK-30, about $160.00. Mine is great, but I also have much bigger screen than you.
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post #5333 of 16959 Old 05-14-2009, 10:00 AM
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I've been looking at the new players (mostly Oppo, Denon and Pioneer) and am curious/skeptical about some of these new features and was hoping you guys could chime in...

Any benefit or simply marketing at its best?

Deep color?
Native 4:2:2 output?
Denon 4th link?
Dual HDMI (one for audio, one for video)?
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post #5334 of 16959 Old 05-14-2009, 10:12 AM
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I think it would depend on your other gear... Most of those features will have to be supported by your display or receiver. Personally I wouldn't pay more money for a player with those particular features, except the dual HDMI, that one I would definitely like, but only if both HDMI outs can be used at the same time at least for video.
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post #5335 of 16959 Old 05-14-2009, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

I've been looking at the new players (mostly Oppo, Denon and Pioneer) and am curious/skeptical about some of these new features and was hoping you guys could chime in...

Any benefit or simply marketing at its best?

Deep color?
Native 4:2:2 output?
Denon 4th link?
Dual HDMI (one for audio, one for video)?

Why would you move this here mods? These are features several companies are pushing and should be discussed in its own thread.
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post #5336 of 16959 Old 05-14-2009, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

I've been looking at the new players (mostly Oppo, Denon and Pioneer) and am curious/skeptical about some of these new features and was hoping you guys could chime in...

Any benefit or simply marketing at its best?

Deep color?

I haven't tested it myself, but I suspect it is of negligible value. The OPPO manual says so as well.

Quote:


Native 4:2:2 output?

I'm actually surprised all players don't have that; it is what you get out of the decoder anyway.

The signal has to be upsampled to 4:4:4 somewhere and then to RGB before it is displayed. This can happen in the player, in the display, or in some intermediate box. There is always the chance for differences, but unless a device is absolutely broken, I suspect it is not very important.

Quote:


Denon 4th link?
Dual HDMI (one for audio, one for video)?

No experience, no opinion.

-Bill
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post #5337 of 16959 Old 05-14-2009, 11:17 AM
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Thanks for the help guys. The Panasonic BD60 seems like a winner.
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post #5338 of 16959 Old 05-14-2009, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Why would you move this here mods? These are features several companies are pushing and should be discussed in its own thread.

I disagree. Understanding all this stuff should "HELP ME CHOOSE A PLAYER". Maybe in the fine-tuning stage, but worthy of discussion here IMO.
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post #5339 of 16959 Old 05-14-2009, 01:27 PM
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Any recommendation between the Panasonic BD60 and the Samsung BD-P3600 (or another model)? CNET is in love wth the Sammy, but this forum seems to give the Panny an edge. I'm hooking up to a Pio 5080 Kuro (so not 1080P) and a Rotel receiver (2.1). I do like the Netflix capability of the Sammy, but could be persuaded by the BD60 if image quality, load time and other a/v qualities are superior. Would really appreciate recommendations from those in the know. Thanks.
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post #5340 of 16959 Old 05-14-2009, 01:37 PM
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PQ for Blu-Ray is the same; I believe the Samsung loads faster too. The Panasonic's advantage is build quality, reliability and near-certainty of long-term firmware support.
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