OFFICIAL "HELP ME CHOOSE A PLAYER" THREAD: Can't decide? Start HERE. - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 16844 Old 02-24-2008, 01:09 PM
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Newbie question couldn't find answer to in my searching... can Blu-Ray players output Blu-Ray Disc's at 1080i on Component Video outputs? Most of the articles/posts/specs mention upscaling DVD to 1080i or 1080p, but not specifically that HD Blu-Ray titles will play at 1080i Component Video . For some reason I thought the studios would not allow HD content out Component Video do to potential for copying.

Thanks!
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post #542 of 16844 Old 02-24-2008, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperM3 View Post

Ive read about the LFE bug but still cant get a grasp at how bad it really is. I live in an apt right now where I cant really listen to my movies at ground shaking levels anyway. Will I really get affected by an LFE bug? Cant I just up the volume on my sub to compensate?

First, an AVS member who's been doing testing for Panasonic reported on Friday that the bug has been fixed on the BD-30 and new firmware will be released next week. But, there's no official announcement yet. And, at this point, it is only known to be for the BD-30.

Second, if you use bass management, cranking up the sub will make the redirected bass too hot. But, if all your speakers are set to large with no redirected bass, then raising the sub by 5db is a solution.
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post #543 of 16844 Old 02-24-2008, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splinters View Post

Hmm, sounds like the analog outs is what is going to be the biggest factor for your purchase. I would recommend the Denon 3808, I believe it has 7.1 analog outs that can decode the newest codecs. Personally I would rather go with the BD50 (assuming no LFE bug) and get a newer AVR which will help everything vs. just spending it on a BD player though.

-Splints

ok why would i get a new avr receiver and spend about 1000 dollars when i can get a blue ray player with analogs out and it should sound great with my yamaha receiver correct.. will buying a new receiver make that much of a diff rather than going with a blue ray that does analog out and decodes most of the new formats vs having to get a new receiver..
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post #544 of 16844 Old 02-24-2008, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwerner View Post

Newbie question couldn't find answer to in my searching... can Blu-Ray players output Blu-Ray Disc's at 1080i on Component Video outputs? Most of the articles/posts/specs mention upscaling DVD to 1080i or 1080p, but not specifically that HD Blu-Ray titles will play at 1080i Component Video . For some reason I thought the studios would not allow HD content out Component Video do to potential for copying.

Thanks!

As of today, all Blu-ray players allow 1080i over component with BDs. The image constraint token (I believe that's what it's called) which will limit 1080i/p only over HDMI has not been mandated yet and it's not clear when it will be. I don't think that's going to be an issue for a while so go ahead and enjoy.
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post #545 of 16844 Old 02-24-2008, 05:01 PM
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well, at the beginning of feb, I decided hd-DVD was done, and was in the same boat as you are. I want the bd50, but I want to get into the format now. I was lucky enough to find an open box b10 for a good price, and after one quick fw upgrade, so far the only disks I can't play are some codefree anime that I didn't expect to work on that player anyway. So now I've converted my netflix queue over to BD, and I can stop jones'n for the BD50 in the meantime. When thats a reality, I'll relocate the BD10 to a non HT TV.

Now that the format war is over, those open-box BD deals might start getting hard to find, though.
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post #546 of 16844 Old 02-25-2008, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy13 View Post

ok why would i get a new avr receiver and spend about 1000 dollars when i can get a blue ray player with analogs out and it should sound great with my yamaha receiver correct.. will buying a new receiver make that much of a diff rather than going with a blue ray that does analog out and decodes most of the new formats vs having to get a new receiver..

I would say that it would cost 700-800 for a decent AVR that will help future-proof and provide consistent performance your home theater. Analog outs will probably work for one player, but then your subject to the DAC of the BD player as well as your AVR. By going to HDMI for audio and getting full 5.1/6.1/7.1 lossless audio in digital format you will only be dependent on the AVR's DACs. My thought was that the removal of one set of DACs would give you more consistent performance. Obviously having HDMI would be the future-proofing portion.

Now granted a BD player is probably the only lossless player you may have so it may not be a big deal to have one set of analog outs, but if you do have multiple lossless audio inputs, HDMI would be what I would expect the easiest route to go.

Of course this is all an opinion, but up to you what works best for your own situation.

-Splints
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post #547 of 16844 Old 02-28-2008, 08:44 AM
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Ready to buy Blu-ray and need to decide between PS3 and Panasonic BD30. Before making a final decision I want to make sure I understand the audio situation and how my receiver will handle it.

I have ordered an Onkyo 705. It will decode the newer lossless audio tracks from Blu-ray and HD DVD. I also have a Toshiba A30 HD DVD player that I will connect to the Onkyo via HDMI. And I will connect the Blu-ray via HDMI.

As I understand it, the PS3 internally decodes but doesn't bitstream, and the Panny doesn't decode but bitstreams. Given that I will have the Onkyo 705, does this mean that I will have the lossless audio tracks covered either way, regardless of whether I keep the decoding PS3 or get the bitstreaming Panny?

I am not sure whether the Toshiba A30 decodes or bitstreams, but I would want to get lossless audio from it too, so I am hoping that the 705 can handle the HD DVD player and a Blu-ray even if one decodes and the other bitstreams. Or do you have to set the receiver for either bitsteaming or decoding and both players need to either decode or both players bitstream --i.e, does it support having one player bitsteam and the other decode?
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post #548 of 16844 Old 02-28-2008, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemccl View Post

Ready to buy Blu-ray and need to decide between PS3 and Panasonic BD30. Before making a final decision I want to make sure I understand the audio situation and how my receiver will handle it.

I have ordered an Onkyo 705. It will decode the newer lossless audio tracks from Blu-ray and HD DVD. I also have a Toshiba A30 HD DVD player that I will connect to the Onkyo via HDMI. And I will connect the Blu-ray via HDMI.

As I understand it, the PS3 internally decodes but doesn't bitstream, and the Panny doesn't decode but bitstreams. Given that I will have the Onkyo 705, does this mean that I will have the lossless audio tracks covered either way, regardless of whether I keep the decoding PS3 or get the bitstreaming Panny?

I am not sure whether the Toshiba A30 decodes or bitstreams, but I would want to get lossless audio from it too, so I am hoping that the 705 can handle the HD DVD player and a Blu-ray even if one decodes and the other bitstreams. Or do you have to set the receiver for either bitsteaming or decoding and both players need to either decode or both players bitstream --i.e, does it support having one player bitsteam and the other decode?

Get the BD30. Now that the LFE issue is fixed, there's not reason not to since the receiver you ordered will decode the adv. audio codecs. Also, the PS3 can't decode DTS-HD MA, so no lossless audio on FOX movies.

The A30 decoded DD+ and TrueHD internally and sends the signal over HDMI as PCM. You'd have to get an A35 in order to bitstream the audio to your receiver. Either way will give you the adv. audio codecs.

Your receiver can handle both PCM or bitstream.

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post #549 of 16844 Old 02-28-2008, 04:27 PM
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Have Denon AVR 2807 and Samsung 5884. So which Blu-Ray for me? Kinda waiting for new PS3 or Panny BD50. Anyone know if new release PS3 will have SACD asbefore?
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post #550 of 16844 Old 02-28-2008, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khwiggins2 View Post

Get the BD30. Now that the LFE issue is fixed, there's not reason not to since the receiver you ordered will decode the adv. audio codecs. Also, the PS3 can't decode DTS-HD MA, so no lossless audio on FOX movies.

The A30 decoded DD+ and TrueHD internally and sends the signal over HDMI as PCM. You'd have to get an A35 in order to bitstream the audio to your receiver. Either way will give you the adv. audio codecs.

Your receiver can handle both PCM or bitstream.

Thanks. I believe I will go with the BD30.
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post #551 of 16844 Old 02-29-2008, 07:12 AM
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I'm in no hurry to get a blu-ray. I honestly don't see what the big deal is. They are still overpriced and underperforming as far as I can tell. I'm going to wait a couple more generations. Hopefully they will be more robust and reasonably priced by then. Standard DVD will be fine (for me) until then.
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post #552 of 16844 Old 02-29-2008, 09:33 AM
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I agree that I wouldn't buy a player unless it was 2.0 or a PS3... I have had a PS3 the whole time and I will likely get the Panny BD50 2.0 player when it comes out.

Anyone waiting for $100.00 Blu Ray players be my guest... but you get what you pay for to some degree. Personally I want to pay someone more money for higher quality, but that assumes it really is higher quality. at least I don't need analog outputs: not needing bass management and analog outputs is helpful... unfortunately it seems this is where the most expensive players put the extra money... into areas I don't need.
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post #553 of 16844 Old 02-29-2008, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wackymann View Post

I'm in no hurry to get a blu-ray. I honestly don't see what the big deal is. They are still overpriced and underperforming as far as I can tell. I'm going to wait a couple more generations. Hopefully they will be more robust and reasonably priced by then. Standard DVD will be fine (for me) until then.

the "big deal", at least for me, is that I have gotten a taste of the HDM life with HD DVD. Now that production will switch over to BD exclusively, I won't have new HDM content anymore.

My XA2 will make my SD DVD's look their absolute best for years to come, but I gotta have my HDM!

I recently saw where Panasonic patched the LFE problem with the BD30. The BD50 will be 2.0 and I would assume no LFE issue. I will be jumping on that bad boy as soon as it hits...
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post #554 of 16844 Old 02-29-2008, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z06_Pilot View Post

the "big deal", at least for me, is that I have gotten a taste of the HDM life with HD DVD. Now that production will switch over to BD exclusively, I won't have new HDM content anymore.

My XA2 will make my SD DVD's look their absolute best for years to come, but I gotta have my HDM!

I recently saw where Panasonic patched the LFE problem with the BD30. The BD50 will be 2.0 and I would assume no LFE issue. I will be jumping on that bad boy as soon as it hits...

With a lot of people wanting for one myself included you would think a shipment date
would have been issued by now
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post #555 of 16844 Old 02-29-2008, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wackymann View Post

I'm in no hurry to get a blu-ray. I honestly don't see what the big deal is. They are still overpriced and underperforming as far as I can tell. I'm going to wait a couple more generations. Hopefully they will be more robust and reasonably priced by then. Standard DVD will be fine (for me) until then.

I can appreciate the viewpoint, but why the trolling? If you have something useful to add, please do.

-Splints
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post #556 of 16844 Old 02-29-2008, 09:15 PM
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Okay I am new to blu ray, been using the hd dvd addon for the 360 and love it. But I guess it looks like if I want to continue to buy hd movies im gonna have to go blu. Can anyone point me towards a good fairly inexpensive player? I know, this is probably the most asked question in the universe but its really hard to dig through the mountain of info on this and with the diff. profiles etc. its a little confusing. I have found a samsung bdp 1400 for under 300, is this a solid player? Is it upgradeable to the current profile? Is there a better player for around this price, because price is def. an issue. Thanks for putting up with a blu noob. My sound is coming from an Onkyo txsr505.
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post #557 of 16844 Old 03-01-2008, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khwiggins2 View Post

Get the BD30. Now that the LFE issue is fixed, there's not reason not to since the receiver you ordered will decode the adv. audio codecs. Also, the PS3 can't decode DTS-HD MA, so no lossless audio on FOX movies.

The A30 decoded DD+ and TrueHD internally and sends the signal over HDMI as PCM. You'd have to get an A35 in order to bitstream the audio to your receiver. Either way will give you the adv. audio codecs.

Your receiver can handle both PCM or bitstream.

This is all correct, but keep in mind PCM is almost always preferred to bitstreaming if you like to hear secondary audio such as menu sounds and commentary tracks. When you send audio via PCM that audio is mixed with secondary audio inside the player prior to being sent to your Receiver/Pre-Pro as PCM. When the codecs are sent to the Receiver to be decoded they can only be the primary audio because the Receiver does not know what to do with the secondary audio. If you read the online manual for bitstreaming Blu-ray Players and Receivers/Pre-Pros that can handle a bitstream you will find a caveat mentioning no secondary audio. Still it's nice to have equipment that can deal with the new codecs just for dts-HD MA (Fox, many HD DVD imports) even if you can't use PiP or audio commentaries.

EDIT I missed this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessster View Post

Okay I am new to blu ray, been using the hd dvd addon for the 360 and love it. But I guess it looks like if I want to continue to buy hd movies im gonna have to go blu. Can anyone point me towards a good fairly inexpensive player? I know, this is probably the most asked question in the universe but its really hard to dig through the mountain of info on this and with the diff. profiles etc. its a little confusing. I have found a samsung bdp 1400 for under 300, is this a solid player? Is it upgradeable to the current profile? Is there a better player for around this price, because price is def. an issue. Thanks for putting up with a blu noob. My sound is coming from an Onkyo txsr505.

That is the million dollar question. The short answer is the PS3 is still the best Blu-ray device out there and one of only two currently on the market (The Dual format LG BH-200 being the other) that can be theoretically updated to be profile 2.0 compliant.

I like Samsung and the BD1400 is their best BD Player thus far, but they are notorious for not supporting their BD Players, which is why the BD1200 provoked a lawsuit. The BD1400 is a Profile 1.0 BD Player so no PiP, but it can decode all of the new audio formats (DD+, TrueHD, dts-HD) except dts-HD MA, but it can stream that format so you're covered there. It should also be noted that Samsung has supported the BD1400 better than previous models (2 firmware updates in February), but the PS3 is generally considered the best future-proof BD Player and the Panasonic BD30 is the best current stand alone BD Player; it can stream all advanced audio codecs and is Profile 1.1 compliant.

You will probably be able to get a good deal on the BD30 in the next few weeks when the BD50 (2.0) Player is released.

You can get a 40-Gig PS3 for $299 if you open a Sony Style Visa account; look in the deals thread for more details.

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post #558 of 16844 Old 03-01-2008, 08:38 AM
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wow thanks alot, I really appreciate it. So the bdp1400 cant be upgraded to 2.0?
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post #559 of 16844 Old 03-01-2008, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fistofsouth View Post

This is all correct, but keep in mind PCM is almost always preferred to bitstreaming if you like to hear secondary audio such as menu sounds and commentary tracks. When you send audio via PCM that audio is mixed with secondary audio inside the player prior to being sent to your Receiver/Pre-Pro as PCM. When the codecs are sent to the Receiver to be decoded they can only be the primary audio because the Receiver does not know what to do with the secondary audio. If you read the online manual for bitstreaming Blu-ray Players and Receivers/Pre-Pros that can handle a bitstream you will find a caveat mentioning no secondary audio. Still it's nice to have equipment that can deal with the new codecs just for dts-HD MA (Fox, many HD DVD imports) even if you can't use PiP or audio commentaries.

Are you actually saying that if you use Bitstream through HDMI on the BD30 that you won't be able to hear the audio commentaries or use PiP??
That would be a total deal killer for this player. Why even have it if you can't use the features? Can this be right?

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post #560 of 16844 Old 03-01-2008, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Sly View Post

Are you actually saying that if you use Bitstream through HDMI on the BD30 that you won't be able to hear the audio commentaries or use PiP??
That would be a total deal killer for this player. Why even have it if you can't use the features? Can this be right?

You can use them, but not with encoded lossless audio. The player will use a DD or dts core track when mixing in the secondary audio material. Remember, the extra audio is not part of the primary audio track, which is all that gets sent via bitstream to the receiver.
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post #561 of 16844 Old 03-01-2008, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

You can use them, but not with encoded lossless audio. The player will use a DD or dts core track when mixing in the secondary audio material. Remember, the extra audio is not part of the primary audio track, which is all that gets sent via bitstream to the receiver.

So can you mix-in the secondary audio core tracks through the HDMI? But then what happens to the lossless audio bitstream?

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post #562 of 16844 Old 03-01-2008, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Tim Sly View Post

So can you mix-in the secondary audio core tracks through the HDMI? But then what happens to the lossless audio bitstream?

I don't own one of these players. But, I believe if you select the main the audio track, you'll get the lossless bitstream over HDMI. If you select an audio commentary, you'll get a PCM version of the lossy track with the secondary audio mixed in.
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post #563 of 16844 Old 03-01-2008, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

You can use them, but not with encoded lossless audio. The player will use a DD or dts core track when mixing in the secondary audio material. Remember, the extra audio is not part of the primary audio track, which is all that gets sent via bitstream to the receiver.

You nailed it. This was just confirmed on the BD30 Owner's thread.
If you want the HD audio tracks bitstreamed through HDMI, you have to turn OFF the secondary audio tracks in the player's menu. Then if you want to watch special features or listen to commentaries, you have to go into the player menu and turn ON the secondary audio. Then to watch a movie again you have to go back into the player menu and reverse the audio setting.

That is way to much of a pain to me. I watch a lot of special features after a movie and I am not willing to go into the player's set up menu twice just to accomplish this. I will wait for the BD50 which does all the internal decoding for all the HD audio formats and mixes in the secondary audio and passes it through HDMI as PCM.

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post #564 of 16844 Old 03-01-2008, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Sly View Post

You nailed it. This was just confirmed on the BD30 Owner's thread.
If you want the HD audio tracks bitstreamed through HDMI, you have to turn OFF the secondary audio tracks in the player's menu. Then if you want to watch special features or listen to commentaries, you have to go into the player menu and turn ON the secondary audio. Then to watch a movie again you have to go back into the player menu and reverse the audio setting.

That is way to much of a pain to me. I watch a lot of special features after a movie and I am not willing to go into the player's set up menu twice just to accomplish this. I will wait for the BD50 which does all the internal decoding for all the HD audio formats and mixes in the secondary audio and passes it through HDMI as PCM.

Yes I should have been more specific. Bitstreaming is only used for the new lossless audio codecs (TrueHD, dts-HD MA) so you can still have the secondary audio if you go with a lossy track (DD, DD+) or if the disk has PCM.

So if you buy a bitstreaming (only) player you have two choices:

1. Listen to lossless codecs (TrueHD DTS-HD MA) via bitstreaming sans secondary audio.

2. Listen to lossy audio with secondary audio included.

If you have a player that decodes internally you can listen to the lossless codecs WITH secondary audio because the player will mix in the secondary audio prior to sending it to your Receiver/Pre-Pro. You can see the BD CEs lining up to fleece people for internal decoding already. For instance the Denon DVD2500 (Streams) has an MSRP of $999 while the DVD3800 (decodes and streams) has an MSRP of $1999. Another example is the the new Sony line-up; the BDP-S350 only streams dts-HD MA and retails for $399 while the BDP-S550 (decodes and streams dts-HD MA) retails for $499.

Keep in mind these same companies have been pimping bitstreaming audio as the cream de la cream in HDM for the last year. Why would they do that when internal player decoding is clearly superior? They did it to try and convince audio buffs to upgrade their Receivers and Pre-Pros to newer models that can handle the new audio codecs. Why take only $500 (BD Player) from consumers when they can take $1300 (BD Player+Receiver) from consumers?

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post #565 of 16844 Old 03-02-2008, 01:18 AM
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Can someone give me a heads up about which player I should keep an eye on for me to buy in the future? I'm looking to get one in the summer - between May and August hopefully. Here is what i'm looking for;

1. Profile 1.1. I have no need for 2.0 and probably never will.
2. Good upscaler. I've got a UK HD-E1 at that moment so anything that is the same as, or better than that would be good.
3. Don't mind about the sound outputs etc, as my reciever does not have HDMI. Just need something that sends all the normal codecs to my reciever via optical.
4. Price needs to be from low to middle of the range.
5. Not too many bugs, but hey, we wont know about bugs until the player is out.

I just want to narrow down my options and so if someone could post some players that will adhere to these points I would be grateful
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post #566 of 16844 Old 03-02-2008, 11:17 AM
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OK, I have a Marantz SR 7400 receiver. No HDMI, no HD surround format decoding. It does have a analoge 5.1 input (and optical and co-ax digital inputs). Are there Blu-ray players that can decode the newer HD surround formats so I can input that decoded pre-amp signal into my receiver? Will my receiver then be able to amplify that signal and send it to my speakers? (using a 6.1 setup at this time) or, will I end up having to purchase a new receiver that has the newer HD surround decoding? Thanks!
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post #567 of 16844 Old 03-02-2008, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by keyoctave View Post

OK, I have a Marantz SR 7400 receiver. No HDMI, no HD surround format decoding. It does have a analoge 5.1 input (and optical and co-ax digital inputs). Are there Blu-ray players that can decode the newer HD surround formats so I can input that decoded pre-amp signal into my receiver? Will my receiver then be able to amplify that signal and send it to my speakers? (using a 6.1 setup at this time) or, will I end up having to purchase a new receiver that has the newer HD surround decoding? Thanks!

There's a complete list of the decoding and output formats of all BD players HERE.

Your best bet at the moment is probably the Panasonic BD10A, which decodes everything except dts-MA and has analog outs. But, there are several players announced for later this year that may be worth waiting for.
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post #568 of 16844 Old 03-02-2008, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

There's a complete list of the decoding and output formats of all BD players HERE.

Your best bet at the moment is probably the Panasonic BD10A, which decodes everything except dts-MA and has analog outs. But, there are several players announced for later this year that may be worth waiting for.

Thanks!
My input is a 7.1, not 5.1. I will wait for the new players coming out in the next few months. At least I wont have to buy a new receiver for now.
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post #569 of 16844 Old 03-03-2008, 04:49 PM
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You will probably be able to get a good deal on the BD30 in the next few weeks when the BD50 (2.0) Player is released.

I thought I read in the BD30 topic that the Panny BD50 was not coming out until October. Is it actually coming much sooner? I just bought a BD30 last Friday thinking I didn't want to wait until October. If it is coming in the next few weeks, maybe I will return the BD30.

Edit: just saw in the BD50 thread that they are speculating April 1.
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post #570 of 16844 Old 03-03-2008, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by dalemccl View Post

I thought I read in the BD30 topic that the Panny BD50 was not coming out until October. Is it actually coming much sooner? I just bought a BD30 last Friday thinking I didn't want to wait until October. If it is coming in the next few weeks, maybe I will return the BD30.

I would like to know the source if the BD50 will be out in a "few weeks".
All I have seen is that it is expected in 2nd Quarter, 2008. Which would be April-May-June.

Anyone have the inside?

My dedicated home theater with an ancient Egyptian theme: http://myweb.arvig.net/sly/
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