OFFICIAL "HELP ME CHOOSE A PLAYER" THREAD: Can't decide? Start HERE. - Page 202 - AVS Forum
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post #6031 of 16807 Old 08-04-2009, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by boobtube View Post

to complete my ht system, i need to purchase a blu-ray.

my system consists of:

panasonic plasma g-15, pioneer elite sc-05, as well as 5 b&w speakers...six, if you count the sub.


my budget is about 500 bucks. i listen to music about 60 % and the rest movies.

for whatever reasons, i've narrowed my search down to either Panasonic or Pioneer bdp-fd23...or the step below.

please give me your thoughts. it seems i should stick with panasonic because that's who makes my tv....or....should i stick with pioneer since they make my a/v receiver?

I would try to avoid blind brand loyalties and buy based on the specific features, performance, and build-quality you're looking for within your budget range. One thing to remember for ALL audio formats over HDMI to your AVR, the player is just a digital transport sending bit-for-bit digital signal (decoded or bitstream, lossy or lossless, PCM or DSD). Does your music listening include much, or any, SACD and/or DVD-A? If so, you'll probably want to either strongly consider the Oppo, or supplement a video-oriented BD player with a seperate SACD/DVD-A player. The two-player approach could give you similar results at a much lower price point...

A combination of Samsung P2550 ($225ish refurbished) or JVC BP1 ($199, HHGregg) along with something like an Onkyo SP504 for DVD-A and SACD ($120 refurbished, AC4L) would give you a solid digital transport for BD audio & video along with top-notch Reon HQV scaling/deinterlacing for DVD and a capable digital transport for DVD-A and SACD... all for $320 - $350. The only single-player solution in a similar price-range is the Oppo BDP-83 at $499... it might do a marginally better job with DVD scaling, especially noise reduction, but on a smaller display like yours I really doubt you'll see the difference. It'll also have a more solid build on which you can place your own value assessment.

If your audio needs don't include SACD and DVD-A, any BD player will perform just as well as a digital transport. Features, video performance, speed, and build quality should be your only concerns. I would still pick the P2550 as the absolute best PQ value for DVD scaling along with a solid feature set, and the BP1 as nearly as good, probably indistinguishable on smaller screens, while being cheap and extremely fast. I don't think the Pioneer 320 and FD23 offers anything more for the money and, while they do a great job for a proprietary DVD scaler/deinterlacer, I'd still give the edge to the P2550's Reon HQV implementation. I'm honestly not sure I'd personally consider the Panasonic at all... it's solid, but doesn't seem to offer anything distinct either in features, speed, performance, or value. If you happen to be brand-match OCD then I guess I'd go for one of the Pioneers because they're pretty

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post #6032 of 16807 Old 08-04-2009, 07:57 AM
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I certainly questioned the Netflix service myself until I began using it. When I move in August, I will not even be getting cable. Just a nice UHF antenna for HD broadcast and Netflix movies. I'll rent movies in Blu Ray and use the streaming for things like TV shows or older films which wouldn't benefit as much from the latest technology.

That being said, I would also like to know which player is capable of streaming the fastest.
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post #6033 of 16807 Old 08-04-2009, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins View Post

I would try to avoid blind brand loyalties and buy based on the specific features, performance, and build-quality you're looking for within your budget range. One thing to remember for ALL audio formats over HDMI to your AVR, the player is just a digital transport sending bit-for-bit digital signal (decoded or bitstream, lossy or lossless, PCM or DSD). Does your music listening include much, or any, SACD and/or DVD-A? If so, you'll probably want to either strongly consider the Oppo, or supplement a video-oriented BD player with a seperate SACD/DVD-A player. The two-player approach could give you similar results at a much lower price point...

A combination of Samsung P2550 ($225ish refurbished) or JVC BP1 ($199, HHGregg) along with something like an Onkyo SP504 for DVD-A and SACD ($120 refurbished, AC4L) would give you a solid digital transport for BD audio & video along with top-notch Reon HQV scaling/deinterlacing for DVD and a capable digital transport for DVD-A and SACD... all for $320 - $350. The only single-player solution in a similar price-range is the Oppo BDP-83 at $499... it might do a marginally better job with DVD scaling, especially noise reduction, but on a smaller display like yours I really doubt you'll see the difference. It'll also have a more solid build on which you can place your own value assessment.

If your audio needs don't include SACD and DVD-A, any BD player will perform just as well as a digital transport. Features, video performance, speed, and build quality should be your only concerns. I would still pick the P2550 as the absolute best PQ value for DVD scaling along with a solid feature set, and the BP1 as nearly as good, probably indistinguishable on smaller screens, while being cheap and extremely fast. I don't think the Pioneer 320 and FD23 offers anything more for the money and, while they do a great job for a proprietary DVD scaler/deinterlacer, I'd still give the edge to the P2550's Reon HQV implementation. I'm honestly not sure I'd personally consider the Panasonic at all... it's solid, but doesn't seem to offer anything distinct either in features, speed, performance, or value. If you happen to be brand-match OCD then I guess I'd go for one of the Pioneers because they're pretty

These were some good tips. I have no use for the audio since all of my music is either off my ipod or just streamed through my xbox. Im more of a video person. I was looking at the Panny 60. I have tons of standard DVD's so I was looking for something that had good upscaling. The LG seems to have received some good reviews though.
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post #6034 of 16807 Old 08-04-2009, 08:25 AM
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The LG 370 and 390 both received pretty mediocre reviews in terms of DVD scaling/deinterlacing image quality. Unless you absolutely have to get a player with both Netflix and MKV support, I'd avoid them... and even then I'd step up to the 390 because it supports NTFS drives for file sizes over 4gb. Still, a P2550 + WDTV HD would cost less than a 390 and do everything better, other than possibly BD load times which still aren't that bad.

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post #6035 of 16807 Old 08-04-2009, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins View Post

The LG 370 and 390 both received pretty mediocre reviews in terms of DVD scaling/deinterlacing image quality. Unless you absolutely have to get a player with both Netflix and MKV support, I'd avoid them... and even then I'd step up to the 390 because it supports NTFS drives for file sizes over 4gb. Still, a P2550 + WDTV HD would cost less than a 390 and do everything better, other than possibly BD load times which still aren't that bad.

I could care less about the netflix or mkv support. I can stream movies through my xbox or mac mini if i have to. I have read mixed reviews on the samsung blu ray players so i was looking at other companies.
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post #6036 of 16807 Old 08-04-2009, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by termin8ted3148 View Post

I could care less about the netflix or mkv support. I can stream movies through my xbox or mac mini if i have to. I have read mixed reviews on the samsung blu ray players so i was looking at other companies.

Out of curiosity, what are the mixed reviews you've read about the P2500/2550? Firmware support is the biggest complaint, but it's picked up significantly over the last 6 months. Load times aren't PS3 fast, but they're in the 10 (non-Java) to 45 (Java) second range. PQ is excellent, particularly DVD scaling/deinterlacing, and audio is an unaltered digital transport (regardless of internal decoding or bitstreaming). I wouldn't judge the P2550 based on the quirky/flaky performance and sporatic firmware updates of older Samsung players like the P1000 and P1200 (which itself had top-notch DVD performance).

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post #6037 of 16807 Old 08-04-2009, 10:13 AM
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Hi, all. This n00b on a budget would love your advice.

$200 has been my magic price point for upgrading to BR, and finally we're seeing some models cross that line. I have my eye on one in particular, the Samsung BD-P1500, but I have some questions:

1) The 1500 has been discontinued and replaced by a more expensive models, the 1590 and 1600. Other than Netflix and Pandora support is there an improvement in performance with those? I'm not interested in streaming features.

2) I've read a dozen or more pages in the 1500 owners' forum and I see a lot of issues. But in perusing other BR threads here I see a lot of those same issues in other bargain-priced players. Do you think we're within six months or so of seeing better quality players come down to the $200 range, or am I stuck with mediocrity at that level for the foreseeable future?

3) I'm seeing the 1500 commonly priced new at $199 but refurbished as low as around $150. Should I risk refurbished given the quirkiness of those players?

4) Is there a better player in that price range?

I only have a 37" 720p LCD and a DTS receiver, so I'd be running HDMI to the TV and TOS to the receiver. I'm thinking that for that setup a budget player will do.

I'd appreciate any comments.

Thanks.

Paul
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post #6038 of 16807 Old 08-04-2009, 10:28 AM
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[quote=RedZeppelin;16941559]Hi, all. This n00b on a budget would love your advice.

$200 has been my magic price point for upgrading to BR, and finally we're seeing some models cross that line. I have my eye on one in particular, the Samsung BD-P1500, but I have some questions:

1) The 1590 and 1600 are identical... the 1590 is a Wal-Mart model number so they don't have to price match. Beyond Netflix/Pandora, you'll likely see a noticeable improvement in load times. Also, these are WiFi capable with an add-on dongle, but it's not widely available yet. PQ and AQ will likely be identical. One other thing to consider, you'll likely get quicker and longer lasting firmware support with the newer models.

2) MOST glitches, especially disc playback glitches, are overblown with ALL players. If you're on the latest firmware, it's going to play 99% of the discs you put in it. You'll occaisonaly come across one that might glitch, and maybe it'll take a few weeks for a firmware update to be issued. Some people make it sound like that's the end of the world.

3) It's currently $130 refurb from TigerDirect. That said, you can get the 1590 refurbished for $152 + 18ish shipping from eOutlet Canada. I'd pay the difference for Netflix and faster load times.

4) I'd say the refurb 1590, or if you want new under $200, the JVC BP1 at HHGregg for $199... it loads extremely fast, has surprisingly good DVD scaling abilities, and supports MKV video files (though limited to FAT32 file system and files under 4gb).

Does your AVR have 5.1 or 7.1 analog inputs? If so, you may want to consider an upgrade to a player with 7.1 analog outputs... that said, depending on your AVR and speakers, there's a good chance you won't hear the difference. If you're planning on eventually upgrading your AVR, you can surely make due with TOS for awhile.

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post #6039 of 16807 Old 08-04-2009, 10:52 AM
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I'd like to buy a Blu-Ray player, but it's difficult to gather info on which models have full onboard audio decoding for CDs, DVDs, and both DD and DTS full-res Blu-Ray audio tracks. I only need stereo output from the player for all these audio formats, since I'm a headphone junky. I'm aware of the awesomeness that is the Oppo DBP-83, but don't have $499 to drop on it right now. Are there models in the $200-$300 range like the Panny BD60 or Sony S360 that have onboard audio decoding for all possible audio permutations? I'm somewhat familiar with the DTS Essential Audio concept, which I believe means that all mainstream audio formats are handled but not the DTS rare birds. Thoughts on models that will give me full onboard audio decoding that aren't the Oppo BDP-83?
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post #6040 of 16807 Old 08-04-2009, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins View Post


Does your AVR have 5.1 or 7.1 analog inputs? If so, you may want to consider an upgrade to a player with 7.1 analog outputs... that said, depending on your AVR and speakers, there's a good chance you won't hear the difference. If you're planning on eventually upgrading your AVR, you can surely make due with TOS for awhile.

Unfortunately no. I'm stuck with TOS. I'll eventually upgrade my receiver but it's not in the budget right now, so I'd rather stick with a good DTS system than settle for a low-end 7.1.

Thanks a million for your input!

Paul
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post #6041 of 16807 Old 08-04-2009, 12:02 PM
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Hi,i am wanting a pioneer elite blu-ray to go my elite 151 tv i just got .which one is good the bdp23 or the bdp 05 ? and what are the differences ? also whats the difference in the non elite 320?thanks for the help.
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post #6042 of 16807 Old 08-04-2009, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ALYSHA View Post

Hi,i am wanting a pioneer elite blu-ray to go my elite 151 tv i just got .which one is good the bdp23 or the bdp 05 ? and what are the differences ? also whats the difference in the non elite 320?thanks for the help.

Over the 320, 23FD adds an RS-232 port for home automation, aluminum front panel, and "audiophile capacitors". Since Pioneer expanded the gloss-black finish outside of the Elite line, even the brand OCD don't have much reason to step up to Elite for video players that straddle the line between top-end Pioneer and entry-level Elite. I guess it's more about distribution channel than anything else for models that bridge the two. The 320 is supposed to be a very solid player with great PQ, even for scaled DVD... but I still think there are better players, all-around, for less money (even though I've always thought Pioneers are the prettiest).

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post #6043 of 16807 Old 08-04-2009, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by RedZeppelin View Post

Unfortunately no. I'm stuck with TOS. I'll eventually upgrade my receiver but it's not in the budget right now, so I'd rather stick with a good DTS system than settle for a low-end 7.1.

Then, for the best audio, I think you should get a Samsung, LG, or JVC, because those will re-encode the full Dolby TrueHD track (if that's what the Blu-Ray uses) into regular DTS, which gives you more bandwidth over optical than DD does.

The difference between the 1500 and newer models is that the 1500 doesn't decode DTS-MA. However, that shouldn't matter since your AVR doesn't have HDMI anyway, and any upgrade should have decoding built in.
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post #6044 of 16807 Old 08-04-2009, 03:44 PM
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I am looking for a Dedicated Standalone Region B Player for my region locked discs.
I dont want to have to punch secret codes in everytime I power up the unit.
It must have a universal power supply or rather be able to plug into the UG elctrical system without converters.
I dont want to spend a lot.

It looks like a sammy 1500 from Amazon.co.uk fits the bill but I'm not sold on samsung products so far. (Trouble with 2 1400's I own)
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post #6045 of 16807 Old 08-04-2009, 06:55 PM
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What's the video scaling quality like on the JVC XV-BP1 as compared to the Oppo 83?

As neither has streaming and both play PAL and NTSC (important for me due to a large collection of PAL discs), what'sthe difference between the two and why should I pay twice as much for the Oppo?
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post #6046 of 16807 Old 08-04-2009, 07:07 PM
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I've not seen a Secrets benchmark test for the JVC, but reports are that it scales extremely well for the price. The reasons to pay 2.5x as much for the Oppo would be high-res audio, analog section, build quality, and absolute DVD scaling quality. If none of that appeals or applies to you, the JVC is probably a better value as a BD transport with solid scaling abilities at a great price.

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post #6047 of 16807 Old 08-04-2009, 07:16 PM
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... The reasons to pay 2.5x as much for the Oppo would be high-res audio, analog section, build quality, and absolute DVD scaling quality...

If the JVC is connected to a quality AVR (Pioneer Elite), would that not take care of the audio side of things?
I'm going to connect via HDMI - but if I do connect via Component - what's the issue with the JVC?
DVD scaling quality - is the JVC not able to upscale DVD to 1080p as wella s the Oppo? I don't know which chip the JVC uses but I assume then that it's not Anchor Bay ?
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post #6048 of 16807 Old 08-04-2009, 07:22 PM
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By high-res audio I was referring to DVD-A and SACD. Over HDMI, all audio is bit-for-bit digital out of the player (regardless of decoded or bitstream), so audio quality will not differ.

The JVC chipset is unknown at this point, but it's safe to say it's not ABT or HQV based (since it's not advertised). It's very likely an integrated solution like Sigma or Mediatek... I doubt JVC would develop a proprietary solution. Regardless, they're doing a very good job for the price.

As for component video, it's an even tougher call, but probably a much closer one. The Oppo does not apply the ABT scaling/deinterlacing for the component output, and defaults to the all-in-one Mediatek chip... as such, performance is still decent, but not stellar.

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post #6049 of 16807 Old 08-04-2009, 07:33 PM
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By high-res audio I was referring to DVD-A and SACD. Over HDMI, all audio is bit-for-bit digital out of the player (regardless of decoded or bitstream), so audio quality will not differ.

The JVC chipset is unknown at this point, but it's safe to say it's not ABT or HQV based (since it's not advertised). It's very likely an integrated solution like Sigma or Mediatek... I doubt JVC would develop a proprietary solution. Regardless, they're doing a very good job for the price.

As for component video, it's an even tougher call, but probably a much closer one. The Oppo does not apply the ABT scaling/deinterlacing for the component output, and defaults to the all-in-one Mediatek chip... as such, performance is still decent, but not stellar.


Thanks Steven,

That good enough for me. I'll be ordering the JVC as I don't play hi-res audio.

I appreciate your help in helping me make a decision. That's what I love about forums like this.

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post #6050 of 16807 Old 08-05-2009, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

I have a PS3 for blu-ray playback and a Toshiba XA2 for SD DVD. I bought the Roku player to stream movies from Netflix and I am somewhat satisfied with the the Roku but not quite happy as it is limiting my download stream speed to 2.6 meg even though my ISP service is 15 Mbps. I want to get a Samsung to get a better picture quality from Netflix and need your help picking a model from Samsung that gives the best Netflix streaming experience, the best picture quality possible given my ISP connection speed. Thanks.


Your probably limited by your router. Is your router using 10/100 or its a gigabit on the LAN side? Or ideally WAN/LAN side?
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post #6051 of 16807 Old 08-05-2009, 08:34 AM
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Hello,

I am looking for a second Blu-ray player...I am debating between the new JVC, the BDP 320, the BPD 51fd (if I can get one), or another BD60 (not thrilled with it but the 30 days are up). I do not care about BD-live, just want a solid all around player with good SD upscaling.

Thanks

Nick
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post #6052 of 16807 Old 08-05-2009, 08:39 AM
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Hello,

I am looking for a second Blu-ray player...I am debating between the new JVC, the BDP 320, the BPD 51fd (if I can get one), or another BD60 (not thrilled with it but the 30 days are up). I do not care about BD-live, just want a solid all around player with good SD upscaling.

Thanks

Nick

At $250 new from Amazon, the Samsung P2500 offers the best DVD scaling available in a BD player less than $498.99. BD-Live and Netflix are just icing on the cake. Load times aren't the fastest, but aren't slow either. Build quality is somewhat average as well, but acceptable.

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post #6053 of 16807 Old 08-05-2009, 08:57 AM
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Thanks, now when you talk build quality is there a better built unit with similar upscaling ability? I am looking for quality throughout and the streaming/netflix will not be needed. Price is an issue - I have $300 to work with.

Nick
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post #6054 of 16807 Old 08-05-2009, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ndrj69 View Post

Thanks, now when you talk build quality is there a better built unit with similar upscaling ability? I am looking for quality throughout and the streaming/netflix will not be needed. Price is an issue - I have $300 to work with.

Nick

There's nothing else with absolute equivalent scaling capabilities in that price range... I've looked hard... you pretty much have to step up to the Oppo BDP-83 for $500 to get equivalent scaling with better build quality, but SACD/DVD-A support comes along with it. The build quality of the P2500/2550 isn't bad at all, it's just average for what you'd see in any player under $500, other than the Oppo.

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post #6055 of 16807 Old 08-05-2009, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ndrj69 View Post

Hello,

I am looking for a second Blu-ray player...I am debating between the new JVC, the BDP 320, the BPD 51fd (if I can get one), or another BD60 (not thrilled with it but the 30 days are up). I do not care about BD-live, just want a solid all around player with good SD upscaling.

Thanks

Nick

Why don't you start by telling us what you didn't like about the BD60 and we can go from there.

The 51FD is definitely the best value of those 3, but at this stage they're going to be hard to find.
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post #6056 of 16807 Old 08-05-2009, 09:29 AM
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Thanks, I had the 1500 and was not impressed with the quality and returned in a week. I think i will go with a Pio if I can get the right price. Thanks again for the info.

nick
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post #6057 of 16807 Old 08-05-2009, 10:44 AM
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I have a $500 budget on a new blu-ray player. I just need advice on the best player I could possibly get to work with my new Denon AVR-1910 receiver/Energy Take Classic 5.1 speakers. I'd love to hear from the pros. Thanks.
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post #6058 of 16807 Old 08-05-2009, 10:47 AM
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I have a $500 budget on a new blu-ray player. I just need advice on the best player I could possibly get to work with my new Denon AVR-1910 receiver/Energy Take 5.1 speakers. I'd love to hear from the pros. Thanks.

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post #6059 of 16807 Old 08-05-2009, 10:56 AM
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Oppo-83

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post #6060 of 16807 Old 08-05-2009, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
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Oppo-83

+1

Oppo BDP-83, $499 at Big River.
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Blu Ray Players , Lg Bd 390 Network Blu Ray Disc Player , Oppo Bdp 103 3d Blu Ray Player , Oppo Bdp 93 Blu Ray Player , Pioneer Elite Bdp 62fd , Pioneer Pdp 5080 Hd , Plasma Hdtv , Sony Bdp S5100 3d Blu Ray Disc Player With Wi Fi , Sony Blu Ray Disc Player Bdp S790 , Toshiba
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