OFFICIAL "HELP ME CHOOSE A PLAYER" THREAD: Can't decide? Start HERE. - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 07:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

This is the Denon Blu-ray player you want...

http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3961.asp

It will bitstream and decode all of the various audio formats and has excellent dvd upconversion.

Thank you Phantom...indeed it seems like the one I need; the price seems a bit steep and WAY out of our budget, but I suppose with all it does, how can someone expect something different...

By any chance are there any players in the $1000 range which do the decent (at least) upconversion and bitstreaming?
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post #902 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 07:11 PM
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There is always the cheaper Denon BD player that bitstreams all audio formats...

http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3953.asp

But the upconversion on this model is only average from what I've heard.


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post #903 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Blu Camry SE View Post

Thanks Mr Clean,

In the past, I would have wanted to stay away from anything Samsung -- but is this information is true, it may be worth a look...do you know if this deck will offer high resolution audio bitstreaming as well?

YES, take a look at the audio comparison chart here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=980672

Specifically look at the LG BH-200 now that it has the FW to support HR audio. The Samsung BD-UP5000 should be identical (I assume) + it has the REON processor.
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post #904 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 07:20 PM
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The upcoming Panasonic BD50 handles all audio formats (both decoding and bitstreaming) and is a profile 2.0 player. It should be released within the next 1 to 2 months and will sell in the $500 price range. As for DVD upscaling performance, we will have to wait to see how it actually performs.

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post #905 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 07:24 PM
 
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Okay Guys, Thanks A Lot...

So as it stands now, I can get the cheaper Denon but that will offer average upscaling...or, the Panny BD50 which we won't know how it will upscale until it arrives...or I can look into a Samsung, which is really my last choice; what about the Pioneer BDP-95FD? Is this worth getting?
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post #906 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 07:34 PM
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Blu... can you not do a two player option?

I really thing the LG is a great unit.. fast, bitstreams, 24p. And the Oppo 983 is supposed to be one of the best upconverters around... Both for under 1k...
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post #907 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 07:46 PM
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Is there a reason to worry about the player's upscaling ability if I have a good upscaling 1.3 compat receiver?
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post #908 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 08:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Blu... can you not do a two player option?

I really thing the LG is a great unit.. fast, bitstreams, 24p. And the Oppo 983 is supposed to be one of the best upconverters around... Both for under 1k...

Indeed, Mixer, this was a definite possibility for me and one that I am STILL considering...the thing is, it just seems so...I don't know..."silly" for lack of a better word to buy a $400 Oppo upscaling DVD deck and then get another $500 or so Blu ray deck that does the bitstreaming output; it just made more sense, I think, to do it in one chassis...

But, when you take into account the price of that Denon at two grand, doing two decks makes more sense I suppose...I just worry about the quality of the Oppo with upscaling...
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post #909 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu Camry SE View Post

Indeed, Mixer, this was a definite possibility for me and one that I am STILL considering...the thing is, it just seems so...I don't know..."silly" for lack of a better word to buy a $400 Oppo upscaling DVD deck and then get another $500 or so Blu ray deck that does the bitstreaming output; it just made more sense, I think, to do it in one chassis...

But, when you take into account the price of that Denon at two grand, doing two decks makes more sense I suppose...I just worry about the quality of the Oppo with upscaling...

Kris Derring said:

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Conclusions

The tentative release date of the Oppo DV-983H is March 10, 2008, and if you're looking for reference video playback performance, this is it. Oppo has produced one heck of a machine. Its performance matches any design I've tested to date, and its performance via HDMI with both video and audio is outstanding. My highest recommendation.

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post #910 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 08:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Kris Derring said:

Thanks very much...this has put my mind at ease a bit at least!

Can I send Dolby Digital and DTS tracks over HDMI WITH video signals with this Oppo?
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post #911 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu Camry SE View Post

Thanks very much...this has put my mind at ease a bit at least!

Can I send Dolby Digital and DTS tracks over HDMI WITH video signals with this Oppo?

Yes.. and you can make it region free from the remote and it will play PAL discs...
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post #912 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKaram View Post

Is there a reason to worry about the player's upscaling ability if I have a good upscaling 1.3 compat receiver?

If your player supports 480i over HDMI you can take advantage of your receiver to do the de-interlacing and scaling. However, many players require you to manually switch back and forth if you want 1080p for Blu-ray and 480i for DVD -- and that can be a little inconvenient.
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post #913 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 08:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Yes..

Another question...if I got the Oppo that's under the $400 one -- I forget the model; their midline player -- would this offer good DVD upscaling too? It has the Faroudja chip, which I don't really trust, but would it at least upscale better than my Panny 10A Blu ray player?
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post #914 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 08:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by miata View Post

If your player supports 480i over HDMI you can take advantage of your receiver to do the de-interlacing and scaling. However, many players require you to manually switch back and forth if you want 1080p for Blu-ray and 480i for DVD -- and that can be a little inconvenient.

Miata,

You bring up a VERY interesting point...

On my Panasonic '10A Blu ray player, there are selections for 480p to 1080p HDMI RESOLUTION OUTPUT...now, I have been keeping the selection on "AUTO" which selects the best resolution for the screen, and this makes the player send 1080p to my Sony SXRD 50A2020 rear projection display...

But I noticed that when I drop the resolution down to "480p" when playing back DVDs on this machine, the noise and artifacts seem to diminish just a tad -- suggesting to me that my TV, doing the upscaling to its native 1080p, is doing a better job at the upconversion...but, like you mention, the switch to 480p every time I want to watch a DVD and then back to 1080p for Blu ray is just a royal pain -- but what is going on in essence if I leave the player on 480p and let the TV handle upscaling? Why is there no "480i" over HDMI resolution from this player...and does this matter for playing DVDs?
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post #915 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieg516 View Post

Not that setting the distances and bass is any big deal, but I'm curious as to why. Of course an explanation would be way beyond my knowledge of receivers, but I'd think that the settings would go into effect when the audio is transmitted from the receiver to the speakers, NOT when the receiver receives the audio from it's source (dvd, tv, optical, coaxial, rca, etc.)

Bass and time management happens in the digital domain. Since the digital-analog conversion is happening in the player, those adjustments need to take place there as well prior to the conversion.

Some more expensive receivers can convert multichannel analog back to digital and handle the signal processing themselves. But, most cannot.
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post #916 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 08:35 PM
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blu, this is the pioneer elite you should be considering, not the 95:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=972724

there is speculation that it will have the Marvell Qdeo for upscaling (which is their solution in their higher end receivers), or better.
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post #917 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 08:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by circumstances View Post

blu, this is the pioneer elite you should be considering, not the 95:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=972724

there is speculation that it will have the Marvell Qdeo for upscaling (which is their solution in their higher end receivers), or better.

Thanks...

Will this bitstream the codecs though? Seems like there's a lot of talk about the internal decoding...
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post #918 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu Camry SE View Post

Miata,

You bring up a VERY interesting point...

On my Panasonic '10A Blu ray player, there are selections for 480p to 1080p HDMI RESOLUTION OUTPUT...now, I have been keeping the selection on "AUTO" which selects the best resolution for the screen, and this makes the player send 1080p to my Sony SXRD 50A2020 rear projection display...

But I noticed that when I drop the resolution down to "480p" when playing back DVDs on this machine, the noise and artifacts seem to diminish just a tad -- suggesting to me that my TV, doing the upscaling to its native 1080p, is doing a better job at the upconversion...but, like you mention, the switch to 480p every time I want to watch a DVD and then back to 1080p for Blu ray is just a royal pain -- but what is going on in essence if I leave the player on 480p and let the TV handle upscaling? Why is there no "480i" over HDMI resolution from this player...and does this matter for playing DVDs?

The BD10 is not the only player that does not support 480i over HDMI. I still think that the CE vendors have a ways to go with creating the ideal player for both Blu-ray and DVD. The DVD resolution thing seems pretty obvious to me. It seems that players should have separate resolution settings for DVD and Blu-ray. This is yet another good reason for having a separate, dedicated DVD player.
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post #919 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Blu Camry SE View Post

Thanks...

Will this bitstream the codecs though? Seems like there's a lot of talk about the internal decoding...

yes
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post #920 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by circumstances View Post

blu, this is the pioneer elite you should be considering, not the 95:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=972724

there is speculation that it will have the Marvell Qdeo for upscaling (which is their solution in their higher end receivers), or better.

Which, btw, is what the LG uses now

And the hi end Oppo is the 983... $399.00
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post #921 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 09:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miata View Post

The BD10 is not the only player that does not support 480i over HDMI. I still think that the CE vendors have a ways to go with creating the ideal player for both Blu-ray and DVD. The DVD resolution thing seems pretty obvious to me. It seems that players should have separate resolution settings for DVD and Blu-ray. This is yet another good reason for having a separate, dedicated DVD player.

Indeed, they SHOULD have separate DVD and Blu ray options for output; I agree...the only thing I can do if I want to go the 480p from the player route is to switch back and forth between 480 and 1080 when I go between BDs and DVDs...

What exactly does it mean if the Blu ray player does not support 480i from its HDMI output? Is it "wrong" for the player to be converting it to progressive in 480?
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yes

So what is the difference between that one and the 95 that you said is not the one I want?
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post #923 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Blu Camry SE View Post

Indeed, they SHOULD have separate DVD and Blu ray options for output; I agree...the only thing I can do if I want to go the 480p from the player route is to switch back and forth between 480 and 1080 when I go between BDs and DVDs...

What exactly does it mean if the Blu ray player does not support 480i from its HDMI output? Is it "wrong" for the player to be converting it to progressive in 480?

I don't know about wrong, but if somebody has a de-interlacer in their display, AVR or video processor that is better than the player it needs the original 480i signal to do it's magic. Many people are fixated on "upscaling," but in my experience the 480i to 480p conversion is much more critical than the 480p to 720p/1080i/18080p conversion.
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post #924 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 09:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by miata View Post

I don't know about wrong, but if somebody has a de-interlacer in their display, AVR or video processor that is better than the player it needs the original 480i signal to do it's magic. Many people are fixated on "upscaling," but in my experience the 480i to 480p conversion is much more critical than the 480p to 720p/1080i/18080p conversion.

So if I leave the setting on 480p on the Blu ray player, what is it sending my TV then? 480 PROGRESSIVE SCAN to then make the TV upscale to 1080p? Would this be the correct way of viewing standard DVDs on this player?
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post #925 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Blu Camry SE View Post

So if I leave the setting on 480p on the Blu ray player, what is it sending my TV then? 480 PROGRESSIVE SCAN to then make the TV upscale to 1080p? Would this be the correct way of viewing standard DVDs on this player?

You should see if there is much difference between 480p and 1080p output from your player. I doubt it is worth the hassle to switch back and forth. The scaler in the BD10 would have to be really bad for there to be much difference.
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Originally Posted by miata View Post

You should see if there is much difference between 480p and 1080p output from your player. I doubt it is worth the hassle to switch back and forth. The scaler in the BD10 would have to be really bad for there to be much difference.

There IS...when I leave the output on 1080p from the player, standard DVDs look atrocious...there are jagged lines and all kinds of noise and macroblocking in dark colors; switching to 480p from the player seems to clean some of this up...
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post #927 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 10:03 PM
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Looking at picking up a blu-ray player for my parents. They have a Vizio 47" LCD display, and an older Onkyo 5.1 receiver (don't remember the exact model, but it only knows how to decode AC3 and DTS).

I am looking at the Samsung BD-P1400 basically because it is relatively cheap. I know it is only profile 1.0 but they have never watched a special feature in their lives, so that doesn't really matter.

My concerns are:
* This can bitstream Dolby Digital or DTS, right? And all discs will always have at least one of these to play? I'm not looking to buy $100 worth of analog audio cables here.
* I read a couple of reviews that said it wouldn't work with universal remotes, but most don't mention this. If true, this would be a complete show stopper. Is there a problem with an ordinary "learning" universal remote (not some piece of crud that came with a TV, or whatever)?
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post #928 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu Camry SE View Post

There IS...when I leave the output on 1080p from the player, standard DVDs look atrocious...there are jagged lines and all kinds of noise and macroblocking in dark colors; switching to 480p from the player seems to clean some of this up...

Wow. The DVD scaler in the BD10 must be pretty bad. I guess you are stuck switching back and forth if you want the best DVD PQ.
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post #929 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 10:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by miata View Post

Wow. The DVD scaler in the BD10 must be pretty bad. I guess you are stuck switching back and forth if you want the best DVD PQ.


Indeed, this has been something that has been discussed in the '10A thread in here for a long time now; Panny just can't seem to get it right...

What would the other option be then? To get a standalone dedicated DVD player with good upscaling?
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post #930 of 17007 Old 04-20-2008, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Blu Camry SE View Post

Indeed, this has been something that has been discussed in the '10A thread in here for a long time now; Panny just can't seem to get it right...

What would the other option be then? To get a standalone dedicated DVD player with good upscaling?

I had assumed that is was just bad de-interlacing. It seems that you have to work pretty hard to screw up scaling. If you really care about DVD playback get something like the OPPO 983 for $400. Ouch, but worth it. If your TV has a good de-interlacer than you can get away with something like a refurbed OPPO 980 (~ $129) to use at 480i over HDMI. It sounds like the 980 would still be better than the Panny even at 1080p.
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