OFFICIAL "HELP ME CHOOSE A PLAYER" THREAD: Can't decide? Start HERE. - Page 442 - AVS Forum
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post #13231 of 16959 Old 04-04-2012, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

Dunderbeck, I would look at the sony 590 then. It's $120 on amazon. Most players have decent upscaling these days, but none can work miracles, even Oppo. There's only so much you can do with SD material. Oppo has a slight edge in upscaling, but it's not worth the $300 premium IMO. I'm sure Oppo owners will disagree with me.

I've yet to see a TV with better upscaling than a player or external processor. If you feed it a 1080p signal, it won't be upscaling anyway. If your computer can't go to 1080p, just get a video card for it that can. How well it handles SD material depends on the software you use for playback. If you go with a blu-ray player like the sony instead, you'll need a good DLNA server running on your computer to stream your files. Serviio is a good, free one that works very well with sony. If you will only be streaming files from a drive or disc, then you don't need a DLNA server of course.

Since OtherSongs needs analog outputs and no file playback, the panny 500 is a better fit for him. Since you don't need analog, then that model would be a waste of money.

Good response.

Dunderbeck asks questions that seem like he's not read what was immediately posted to him before, or even in the same post that he's quoted.

e.g. "what is Panny" when my refs followed up with Panasonic in the threads I gave a ref to.

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post #13232 of 16959 Old 04-04-2012, 12:06 PM
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I see that Serviio is software do i put it on the sony, and can I put it on computers for faster streaming?

I read a reiew that the sony was slow at processing, if so wheres a comprable player that's faster?

Does it upscale video files?

Does it play recordable media?

I'm sorry if I double check sometimes. This is my first BR and HDTV, and I'm very confused. I'm trying understand all the new stuff that's only new to me.
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post #13233 of 16959 Old 04-04-2012, 12:28 PM
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Serviio runs on your computer. It will also transcode otherwise incompatible file types, at the expense of some PQ.

PS3 and panasonic are faster. But panny won't stream most file types, so it's a trade-off. If for example, PS3 takes 5 seconds to load netflix, panny takes 8 and sony takes 10, that's not a big deal to me (those number are just guesses).

It does upscale video files. They look ok, not stellar. It won't magically transform lousy SD content into awesome HD. I don't know of any player that will.

You'll have to check the manual or online specs for playable media. It handles the most common ones. I haven't pushed the envelope. I only use single layer DVD-R and DVD+R which it handles fine. Keep in mind I personally have an older model, but the 590 should be no different. Check out the 590 thread for more/better info.
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post #13234 of 16959 Old 04-04-2012, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

Serviio runs on your computer. It will also transcode otherwise incompatible file types, at the expense of some PQ.

PS3 and panasonic are faster. But panny won't stream most file types, so it's a trade-off. If for example, PS3 takes 5 seconds to load netflix, panny takes 8 and sony takes 10, that's not a big deal to me (those number are just guesses).

It does upscale video files. They look ok, not stellar. It won't magically transform lousy SD content into awesome HD. I don't know of any player that will.

You'll have to check the manual or online specs for playable media. It handles the most common ones. I haven't pushed the envelope. I only use single layer DVD-R and DVD+R which it handles fine. Keep in mind I personally have an older model, but the 590 should be no different. Check out the 590 thread for more/better info.

Right now my router is not connected directly to a computer it is only conected to a print server for remote printing. Can I instal Serviio on my laptop and still effect the router/modem, or must I have a computer connected to the router to do Serviio?

I also am planning on getting a computer to connect to the TV, and a better laptop. If I use an old PC as the one plugged to the router will that lower the wifi speed?

Also, playing through a computer do any either in their player or their video card have an upscale function. What would I look for when buying the computer?

I'll look at the Sony 590's video file compatability, but do you think it will be expancive like the OPPO, or it will only play a few file types?

Thanks for the help
PS
If my questions are at all repetative I appologize. It's hard for me sometimes to process information without double checking.
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post #13235 of 16959 Old 04-04-2012, 01:35 PM
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I'll answer what I can.

Whatever you run Serviio on will have to be on the same network as your player and will obviously need access to the files you want to play. Wifi speed depends on the capability of your router and devices. When transferring data from one device to another, speed is limited by the slowest device in the chain.

For smooth HD video, you need a fast processor and a good video card. I don't know what upscaling possibilities there are for computers. Best to ask about that in the HTPC forum.

Sony and Oppo have extensive file compatibility. Oppo has more. If file playback is a big priority, stand-alone file streamers like WD Live do that better than any disc player. It will be cheaper to buy a $100 disc player and a $100 file player than a $400 Oppo or an even more expensive computer.

However if you plan to use a PC and it's video output for file playback, why bother with getting a disc player or stand-alone file player at all? Pick one solution to each problem and stick with it. You can do everything with a PC, you can do some file streaming and discs with a disc player, or you can do all file streaming and no discs with a streaming box (WD, for example).

What you pick depends on your exact needs, budget and desire for simplicity. Personally, I like a cheap disc player that can stream most of my files and is simple and convenient to use. If it can't stream some, it's not a big deal to me. If you need 100% compatibility with all file types, then no disc player (at a reasonable cost) will do that.

I think you're getting into details about other solutions now that are beyond the scope of this thread.
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post #13236 of 16959 Old 04-04-2012, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

I'll answer what I can.

Whatever you run Serviio on will have to be on the same network as your player and will obviously need access to the files you want to play. Wifi speed depends on the capability of your router and devices. When transferring data from one device to another, speed is limited by the slowest device in the chain.

For smooth HD video, you need a fast processor and a good video card. I don't know what upscaling possibilities there are for computers. Best to ask about that in the HTPC forum.

Sony and Oppo have extensive file compatibility. Oppo has more. If file playback is a big priority, stand-alone file streamers like WD Live do that better than any disc player. It will be cheaper to buy a $100 disc player and a $100 file player than a $400 Oppo or an even more expensive computer.

However if you plan to use a PC and it's video output for file playback, why bother with getting a disc player or stand-alone file player at all? Pick one solution to each problem and stick with it. You can do everything with a PC, you can do some file streaming and discs with a disc player, or you can do all file streaming and no discs with a streaming box (WD, for example).

What you pick depends on your exact needs, budget and desire for simplicity. Personally, I like a cheap disc player that can stream most of my files and is simple and convenient to use. If it can't stream some, it's not a big deal to me. If you need 100% compatibility with all file types, then no disc player (at a reasonable cost) will do that.

I think you're getting into details about other solutions now that are beyond the scope of this thread.

OK so lets say I use a computer for files or WD Live, and all I want is a good fast 3D Blue Ray that pays and upscales DVD+Rs and other recordable media, and upscales regular DVDs as well as possible, and runs Netflix well, and that's all I need it to do apart from generally having a good picture. With what's available at this moment would you still recomend the Sony 590 or would you recomend a Panny or something else.

I'll ask the Computer questions in another thread.
Thanks
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post #13237 of 16959 Old 04-04-2012, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Dunderbeck View Post

and all I want is a good fast 3D Blue Ray that pays and upscales DVD+Rs and other recordable media, and upscales regular DVDs as well as possible, and runs Netflix well, and that's all I need it to do apart from generally having a good picture. With what's available at this moment would you still recomend the Sony 590 or would you recomend a Panny or something else.

Panasonic DMP-BDT 220 at roughly $129 street price.

Amazon sells them at that price with great money back guarantee.

If a return is a possibility, then buy from amazon and not from their 3rd party vendors as returns with the 3rd party vendors is more open to question and takes more homework.

The attraction of the 3rd party vendor is a possible lower price, with the possible downside of more hassle if you decide to return the unit.

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post #13238 of 16959 Old 04-04-2012, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ru4real View Post

Samsung BD-C6900, a 2010 model you can still buy new. The 2011 "replacement" BD-D6500 lacks 7.1 analog outputs.

Panasonic DMP-BD85K, another 2010 model, that's hard to find new.

I searched for the 6900, it's only available used or refurbished. I need analog 5.1 out as well as component out, too. Just not sure I want to pop for an Oppo 95. I have a Samsung BD-C3600, but have no idea how good the SQ or PQ is. Any thoughts?
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post #13239 of 16959 Old 04-04-2012, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon Middleton View Post

I need analog 5.1 out as well as component out, too. Just not sure I want to pop for an Oppo 95. I have a Samsung BD-C3600, but have no idea how good the SQ or PQ is. Any thoughts?

Wow analog audio RCA 5.1 outs and video component outs also.

The OPPO 95 has that? What about the OPPO 93?

I mean it's getting really tough to find current players that have video component outs. And I don't know of any new ones.

If yes and that is what you really need/want, then buy the OPPO unit that most suits your needs.

If all you need is analog 5.1/7.1 RCA outs then consider the soon to be released Panasonic DMP BDT500; see new AVS forum thread at: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1386539

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post #13240 of 16959 Old 04-04-2012, 06:55 PM
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today in the middle of watching war horse my ps3 (which happens to be my only bluray player) shut off and started flashing a red light... tried to get it to start up and was lucky enough to be able to eject the disc using the "fan test" trick

now in case this turns out to be a permanent issue i'll need a new bluray player

the player needs to be able to decode all audio formats to LPCM, streaming features are not required, wifi would be nice (for bd-live) but i could get by without, needs to boot up and load movies reasonably fast, needs to be reliable, and i'd like it to be under $100 if possible
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post #13241 of 16959 Old 04-04-2012, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by AmishFury View Post

needs to boot up and load movies reasonably fast, needs to be reliable, and i'd like it to be under $100 if possible

Might be doable at that $100 price point?

It does rule out the 2012 Panasonic 220 unit which is roughly $129. And maybe also the new competing Sony units?

When you push on low price, just be careful on what you wind up with.

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post #13242 of 16959 Old 04-04-2012, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

Panasonic DMP-BDT 220 at roughly $129 street price.

Amazon sells them at that price with great money back guarantee.

If a return is a possibility, then buy from amazon and not from their 3rd party vendors as returns with the 3rd party vendors is more open to question and takes more homework.

The attraction of the 3rd party vendor is a possible lower price, with the possible downside of more hassle if you decide to return the unit.

Yeah, I origionally bought an LG BD690, because it was the #1 consumer reports model, but as it came it I read all these customer reviews how the the firmware updates messed it up, a lot of them, so I returned it. That was Amazon or one of it's PRIME vendors. Just got an email that the refund went through. I'm tempted to get my next one at Best Buy, if it's available, just because I get weary of mail order. I may wait for the 500, but I really would like it soon. I'm trying to set up a nice system. Got some nice Audiofile speakers (Mirage brand) from a guy on craigslist, and I'm gonna get a computer with 1080p as soon as I can. Mine is sooo old, it's just got 720. I also got a 3D Bee, haven't hooked it up yet. It's all a little overwhelming, not to mention the place is very cluttered.

If anyone else has 3D Blu Ray suggestions I'd love to hear some more opinions before I make a final decision. I guess it just has to have good Netflix, and play recordable media well, and of course have good upscaling and all. I'll just use a computer or other device for files.
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post #13243 of 16959 Old 04-04-2012, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

Wow analog audio RCA 5.1 outs and video component outs also.

The OPPO 95 has that? What about the OPPO 93?

I mean it's getting really tough to find current players that have video component outs. And I don't know of any new ones.

If yes and that is what you really need/want, then buy the OPPO unit that most suits your needs.

If all you need is analog 5.1/7.1 RCA outs then consider the soon to be released Panasonic DMP BDT500; see new AVS forum thread at: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1386539

I need both analog 5.1 and Component video out. Both the Oppo 95 and 93 have them. The 93 is $500, the 95 is $1000.

It seems there would be a market for BD players that output component video and 5.1/7.1 analog, as there's lots of gear out there without HDMI. Seems strange that the major makers ignore those users.
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post #13244 of 16959 Old 04-04-2012, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon Middleton View Post

I need both analog 5.1 and Component video out. Both the Oppo 95 and 93 have them. The 93 is $500, the 95 is $1000.

It seems there would be a market for BD players that output component video and 5.1/7.1 analog, as there's lots of gear out there without HDMI. Seems strange that the major makers ignore those users.

The industry is killing off component video. There are a couple of threads about it here. Current AACS licensing requires Blu-ray video to be reduced to 1/4 resolution before being sent out over component. Future licensing will forbid any sort of Blu-ray video over component.

There are still pre-sunset players in current production that are not restricted; the OPPOs, for example.

-Bill
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post #13245 of 16959 Old 04-04-2012, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

Might be doable at that $100 price point?

It does rule out the 2012 Panasonic 220 unit which is roughly $129. And maybe also the new competing Sony units?

When you push on low price, just be careful on what you wind up with.

the new sony units actually look like possibilities... i can always sell my N200 and use the player as my streaming box

plus i work in the electronics department at wal-mart of all our demo setups running 24/7 the sony players have been the most reliable... 4 players (2 S580s, an S380, and an S185) all running just fine
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post #13246 of 16959 Old 04-04-2012, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon Middleton View Post

I need both analog 5.1 and Component video out. Both the Oppo 95 and 93 have them. The 93 is $500, the 95 is $1000.

It seems there would be a market for BD players that output component video and 5.1/7.1 analog, as there's lots of gear out there without HDMI. Seems strange that the major makers ignore those users.

Seems strange to me also.

I dread buying a 2nd blu-ray player given what the blu-ray people seem to be currently doing with regard to new copy protection (Cinavia). See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1401395

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post #13247 of 16959 Old 04-04-2012, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

The industry is killing off component video. There are a couple of threads about it here. Current AACS licensing requires Blu-ray video to be reduced to 1/4 resolution before being sent out over component. Future licensing will forbid any sort of Blu-ray video over component.

There are still pre-sunset players in current production that are not restricted; the OPPOs, for example.

-Bill

Thanks, Bill. I thought Blu Ray discs would be output at 720P via component for the foreseeable future. Is this going to go away?

I read a thread or two about HDFury. It seemed the copyright stuff only applied to copying material, not just watching it. I'd like to keep using my current projector for as long as possible, and so would like to be able to upscale standard DVDs to 720P.
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post #13248 of 16959 Old 04-05-2012, 12:15 AM
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I own the Oppo BDP-93 atm and all I use it for is playback Blu-Ray discs. I m thinking about selling the Oppo and looking for a cheaper Blu-Ray player since I don t need any of the other features of the Oppo. Except there is one really really important feature the Oppo offers that another BR player needs to have: Dual Audio Output. The Oppo supports simultanously audio output over SPDIF and HDMI at the same time. The SPDIF sends the core dd/dts signal as output and the HDMI sends the dts-ma/true-hd signal as output. I need this feature for my D-Box setup (my D-Box decoder needs a SPDIF core feed and at the same time my receiver needs the lossless hdmi audio via HDMI).

I know the Dune B1 for example also supports this dual audio output feature but the B1 supports no 3D.

Anyone knows of a player that supports what I m looking for?
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post #13249 of 16959 Old 04-05-2012, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Jon Middleton View Post

Thanks, Bill. I thought Blu Ray discs would be output at 720P via component for the foreseeable future. Is this going to go away?

Players introduced to the market since 2011 have had to cripple component video for Blu-ray. They first reduce the 1920x1080 image to 960x540. There is no restriction on the output after that: they could upscale to 720 or 1080 but the damage is already done. I've always presumed they'd just emit 480p because that conversion is already in the player, but I haven't tested any post-sunset players.

Future players will not be able to show Blu-ray video over component at all. Google "AACS analog sunset" for some articles.

-Bill
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post #13250 of 16959 Old 04-05-2012, 08:27 AM
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Thanks, Bill. I'll need to check and see how the Oppo 93 and 95 work, in addition to the Samsung 3600. It's really a shame to cripple all of the older displays like this. While I understand concerns about piracy, I'd like to be able to watch the content I paid for at the full resolution of the gear I also paid for. It's hard to believe a class action lawsuit hasn't been filed regarding this issue.
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post #13251 of 16959 Old 04-05-2012, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Jon Middleton View Post

Thanks, Bill. I'll need to check and see how the Oppo 93 and 95 work, in addition to the Samsung 3600. It's really a shame to cripple all of the older displays like this. While I understand concerns about piracy, I'd like to be able to watch the content I paid for at the full resolution of the gear I also paid for. It's hard to believe a class action lawsuit hasn't been filed regarding this issue.

See the discussion in these threads:


Everyone here understands that no one is pirating video over component, but the industry is convinced otherwise.

-Bill
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post #13252 of 16959 Old 04-05-2012, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Jon Middleton View Post

I thought Blu Ray discs would be output at 720P via component for the foreseeable future. Is this going to go away?

I'd like to keep using my current projector for as long as possible, and so would like to be able to upscale standard DVDs to 720P.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

... I've always presumed they'd just emit 480p because that conversion is already in the player, but I haven't tested any post-sunset players.

From what I've seen 2012 players have no component outputs at all, 2011 limit BD to 480, but 2010 still output 1080i for BD. So the sun pretty much set at the end of 2010 in terms of analog HD on disc players. AFAIK, none have ever upconverted protected DVD over component, so I'm curious how you are currently doing that. Are you just sending your PJ 480, and it simply scales up to its native 720p, no upconversion per se?
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post #13253 of 16959 Old 04-05-2012, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

Panasonic DMP-BDT 220 at roughly $129 street price.

Amazon sells them at that price with great money back guarantee.

If a return is a possibility, then buy from amazon and not from their 3rd party vendors as returns with the 3rd party vendors is more open to question and takes more homework.

The attraction of the 3rd party vendor is a possible lower price, with the possible downside of more hassle if you decide to return the unit.

The DMP-BDT 220 does it have the ability to convert films to 24 frames per second? That is a feature I want.
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post #13254 of 16959 Old 04-05-2012, 09:32 AM
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The DMP-BDT 220 does it have the ability to convert films to 24 frames per second? That is a feature I want.

are you asking about blu ray using 24 frames or dvds? the answer should be yes for both.

Jacob
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post #13255 of 16959 Old 04-05-2012, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Dunderbeck View Post

The DMP-BDT 220 does it have the ability to convert films to 24 frames per second? That is a feature I want.

That's a question that should be posted in this thread on the Panasonic 220/320/500 at: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1395341

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post #13256 of 16959 Old 04-05-2012, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

From what I've seen 2012 players have no component outputs at all, 2011 limit BD to 480, but 2010 still output 1080i for BD. So the sun pretty much set at the end of 2010 in terms of analog HD on disc players. AFAIK, none have ever upconverted protected DVD over component, so I'm curious how you are currently doing that. Are you just sending your PJ 480, and it simply scales up to its native 720p, no upconversion per se?

My understanding is that through a pre 2011 BD player, I can get 720P to my projector from a Blu Ray disc. Also, new BD players upconvert standard DVDs and can output them through HDMI connections. Over component, BD players only output 480P through Component from standard DVDs.

I will be exploring options to optimize my display. I paid for the projector and DVDs, I'll be damned if someone tries to obsolete my gear.

I suppose that since my processor is 10 years old, and only decodes DSP, Pro Logic II, DTS, and something called 3 Stereo, I need a player with 5.1 outputs. My HT is only 4.1, so 5.1 outputs are plenty. What happens when I feed my old processor a newer signal via the L&R audio out from a new BD player?
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post #13257 of 16959 Old 04-06-2012, 04:23 PM
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Panny BDT310 vs. BDT220
Which of these Blu Ray players is better, and for what reason? what's the difference between them?
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post #13258 of 16959 Old 04-07-2012, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunderbeck View Post

Panny BDT310 vs. BDT220
Which of these Blu Ray players is better, and for what reason? what's the difference between them?

The 310 is a 2011 model. It has dual HDMI outs, which you only need if you have a 3D display but not a 3D receiver (so you can send one HDMI to your display and another to your receiver). The 220 is a 2012 model, which has better Netflix streaming (no black flashes that plaque some 2011 models) and adds 3D Vudu (Vudu can be used with the 2011 models, but not Vudu 3D). If you don't need dual HDMIs, I'd go with a 2012 model (220 or 320). If you do need dual HDMIs, you need to go with the 310 or wait for the 2012 model with dual HDMIs (500). There are dedicated threads for both the 2011 and 2012 models.
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post #13259 of 16959 Old 04-07-2012, 12:16 PM
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Which is the better player: Sony s790 or Panasonic 320/500?

Which offers better streaming services and quality of picture/sound, speed and quietness?

I'm planning on buying the Panasonic Plasma 2012 so I suppose I'll have duplicate streaming services if I buy the 320/500?
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post #13260 of 16959 Old 04-07-2012, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablu8 View Post

Which is the better player: Sony s790 or Panasonic 320/500?

Which offers better streaming services and quality of picture/sound, speed and quietness?

I'm planning on buying the Panasonic Plasma 2012 so I suppose I'll have duplicate streaming services if I buy the 320/500?

Based on the dedicated threads (check them out), they seem to be pretty close in PQ (although the 500 is not available yet), with Panny being faster to load and the Sony having SACD. Don't assume you won't need the duplicate streaming; my 2011 Panny BluRay player (110) had much better streaming PQ than my 2011 Panny plasma (VT30), so I'm glad not to have to rely on my display for streaming.
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