Is there a better option than the PS3? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 213 Old 01-09-2008, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koolio View Post

dargo,

Just finished watching 3:10 to Yuma and the PS3 performed flawlessly. Regarding fan noise: it was non-existent. My PS3 was manufactured in November 2007 so I'm pretty sure it has the 65nm Cell processor (I don't remember when Sony started using the 65nm chip). FYI, it's also very well ventilated.

So, don't be concerned with the fan noise...just try to make sure you get one that has the 65nm chip.

Has anyone described how to be certain that your PS3 has the 65NM chip? Preferably before buying it? Anything on the box to be sure you are taking the right one home?

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post #92 of 213 Old 01-09-2008, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docprego View Post

Has anyone described how to be certain that your PS3 has the 65NM chip? Preferably before buying it? Anything on the box to be sure you are taking the right one home?


All of the 40GB versions have the new cpu.
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post #93 of 213 Old 01-09-2008, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

All of the 40GB versions have the new cpu.

Ah, good to know.

I was wondering if I had the 65nm chip and assumed I did since the build date of my PS3 was November 2007 and I knew the 65nm chip was out around before then.

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post #94 of 213 Old 01-09-2008, 08:03 PM
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Where's the PS3/Blu-ray for dummies thread?

My audio is optical only and won't be upgraded for a while. If I understand what I've read here, I can get 1.5mb DTS and DD+ just like I do now with my HD DVD player. But LPCM will be two channel only. Is that right?

So, how many disks will I encounter that don't have DTS or DD? Does Dolby ProLogic really recreate 5.1 channels out of the two channel LPCM, or does it just mirror the two channels out to the other speakers and subwoofer?
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post #95 of 213 Old 01-09-2008, 08:06 PM
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Rumor has it HD DVD support is coming for the PS3
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post #96 of 213 Old 01-09-2008, 08:13 PM
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for reals ?
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post #97 of 213 Old 01-09-2008, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lanceroni View Post

Rumor has it HD DVD support is coming for the PS3


That is complete and total BS.
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post #98 of 213 Old 01-09-2008, 09:07 PM
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Has anyone purchased the PS3 through SonyStyle for $399 and received the $100 credit by applying for their credit card? I want to pull the trigger on a BD player and I've been reading posts on all the +/-'s on the Sony S300, the Panny BD30, and the PS3. Aesthetics aside and if the early fan issues have been resolved, it sounds like the PS3 is the way to go (even though I'm not a gamer). Especially if I can get this for $299, true?
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post #99 of 213 Old 01-09-2008, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koolio View Post

dargo,

Just finished watching 3:10 to Yuma and the PS3 performed flawlessly. Regarding fan noise: it was non-existent. My PS3 was manufactured in November 2007 so I'm pretty sure it has the 65nm Cell processor (I don't remember when Sony started using the 65nm chip). FYI, it's also very well ventilated.

So, don't be concerned with the fan noise...just try to make sure you get one that has the 65nm chip.

Where is the manufactured date located?
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post #100 of 213 Old 01-09-2008, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koolio View Post

dargo,

Just finished watching 3:10 to Yuma and the PS3 performed flawlessly. Regarding fan noise: it was non-existent. My PS3 was manufactured in November 2007 so I'm pretty sure it has the 65nm Cell processor (I don't remember when Sony started using the 65nm chip). FYI, it's also very well ventilated.

So, don't be concerned with the fan noise...just try to make sure you get one that has the 65nm chip.

Thanks koolio, any info on the box regarding dates or s/n so I
can make sure I'm getting a 65nm ps3.
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post #101 of 213 Old 01-09-2008, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koolio View Post

Ah, good to know.

I was wondering if I had the 65nm chip and assumed I did since the build date of my PS3 was November 2007 and I knew the 65nm chip was out around before then.


Anyone know anything about the 80g being upgraded with the new chip? If it's going to be soon, I might as well wait...
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post #102 of 213 Old 01-09-2008, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABCD View Post

if you care about audio, you should avoid the PS3.

You should really rephrase this.

The PS3 does other kinds of audio.

SACD, "Upconverted" CD, several compression formats, media server streaming, CDDB connectivity, ect ect. Many Blu-Ray players simple can not do these features.

Also, not everyone is willing to upgrade their old receivers just yet. Bitstream will be fine for them. I'll put the audio quality of my HK up against SOME of these new receivers that support DTS-MA. Yes, I realize DTS-MA is really good, but my HK doing DTS is pretty bad ass as well. Besides, I really don't know how much more improvement I'd be able to get, given standard living room acoustics. Most people will have imperfect acoustics as well. I wouldn't make it sound like it's the end all be all in home theater audio reproduction. Acoustics/Speakers are much bigger factors.


I just don't think it's as big a deal as people make it out to be.
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post #103 of 213 Old 01-10-2008, 12:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Dark_Knight View Post

You should really rephrase this.

The PS3 does other kinds of audio.

SACD, "Upconverted" CD, several compression formats, media server streaming, CDDB connectivity, ect ect. Many Blu-Ray players simple can not do these features.

Also, not everyone is willing to upgrade their old receivers just yet. Bitstream will be fine for them. I'll put the audio quality of my HK up against SOME of these new receivers that support DTS-MA. Yes, I realize DTS-MA is really good, but my HK doing DTS is pretty bad ass as well. Besides, I really don't know how much more improvement I'd be able to get, given standard living room acoustics. Most people will have imperfect acoustics as well. I wouldn't make it sound like it's the end all be all in home theater audio reproduction. Acoustics/Speakers are much bigger factors.


I just don't think it's as big a deal as people make it out to be.

As much as I liked HD-DVD, one of the things that really bugged me was their "good enough" lossy attitude. For me, the audio improvements in HDM is more important than the video, and I hope this good enough attitude doesn't take hold with BR users.

IMO regular DVDs sound absolutely awful (and that includes both DD and DTS), but lots of people who have never heard anything better swears that it is outstanding. They weren't around when audio quality got downgraded from laserdiscs to DVDs, and they wrongly equate great surround effects with great audio quality. In most cases with HDM, if you can't get the lossless, you are just getting regular-DVD audio quality.
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post #104 of 213 Old 01-10-2008, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrienCharles View Post

Where is the manufactured date located?

It's on the bottom of the PS3 unit. Unfortunately, you won't know the manufacture date until you buy it and open it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dargo View Post

Thanks koolio, any info on the box regarding dates or s/n so I
can make sure I'm getting a 65nm ps3.

jmpage2 said all 40GB PS3s have the 65nm chip. It sucks you can't determine the manufacture date w/o taking it out of the box. When I bought mine, I just asked the sales clerk how recently the PS3 supply was refreshed and he said it was right after the Holidays.

EDIT:
Sounds like serial numbers that start with "CF" (instead of "CE") run quieter based on this thread. Luckily, I got one with "CF."

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post #105 of 213 Old 01-10-2008, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABCD View Post

. In most cases with HDM, if you can't get the lossless, you are just getting regular-DVD audio quality.

Which is still pretty good though.

The difference HD media brings with audio quality is not as great as the difference seen with the visual quality, And Ipod nation doesn't weigh it with the same amount of importance anyway.

I'll keep all the additonal funtionality of the PS3 over DTS-MA. To me, that's a no brainer, especially when there is a chance that the PS3 will eventually decode it anyway.
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post #106 of 213 Old 01-10-2008, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lanceroni View Post

Rumor has it HD DVD support is coming for the PS3

Ha-Ha very funny.
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post #107 of 213 Old 01-10-2008, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Dark_Knight View Post

...

I'll keep all the additonal funtionality of the PS3 over DTS-MA. To me, that's a no brainer, especially when there is a chance that the PS3 will eventually decode it anyway.

agreed.

when there is another player that can do everything the ps3 can for the same $ and it also has dts-ma capability then i will buy that.
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post #108 of 213 Old 01-10-2008, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABCD View Post

. . . Furthermore, you should assume that the PS3 will never be able to support DTS-HD/MA. It may not seem important now, but once you upgrade to a HDMI receiver and hear lossless for the first time, you will wish this is supported, especially since Fox only release lossless on DTS-HD/MA.

DTS reps at CES2008 have confirmed they are working with Sony to develop the DTS HD-MA decoder software for the PS3. So it most likely will be coming in a future firmware update.

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post #109 of 213 Old 01-10-2008, 09:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Dark_Knight View Post

Which is still pretty good though.

No it is not. We had better audio quality than that for movies 15 years ago. That was why I said "if you care about audio, you should avoid the PS3", but obvioisuly you feel other things are more important (and there is nothing wrong with that).

I really hate the speculation and empty promises we have been getting regarding the internal decoding of DTS-HD/MA (notice that the Denon player's delivery date has been pushed back again). There is more to this than meets the eye.
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post #110 of 213 Old 01-10-2008, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABCD View Post

No it is not. We had better audio quality than that for movies 15 years ago. That was why I said "if you care about audio, you should avoid the PS3", but obvioisuly you feel other things are more important (and there is nothing wrong with that).

I really hate the speculation and empty promises we have been getting regarding the internal decoding of DTS-HD/MA (notice that the Denon player's delivery date has been pushed back again). There is more to this than meets the eye.


I don't think that there's any question that DTS-HD/MA decoding can be done in players, the only question is how much horsepower is required to decode it.

I'm not aware of Laser Disc providing superior output to what we can get from the 1.5mbps DTS core audio that can be extracted from a DTS-HD/MA stream, but if you feel I'm mistaken go ahead and call me out on it.

Sony has every reason to hold up DTS-HD/MA support on the PS3 until a few CEs have players on the market with support for it. It's consumers like yourself that would eschew the PS3 over ANY other BD player that had the support, and Sony knows that. Why tick off other CEs and cannabilize their sales with the loss leader PS3 if you don't have to?

I suspect that we will see a DTS-HD/MA update to the PS3 by the end of the year, if not much sooner than that. There's little question that the PS3 has enough hardware horsepower to do the decoding.
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post #111 of 213 Old 01-10-2008, 09:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

I don't think that there's any question that DTS-HD/MA decoding can be done in players, the only question is how much horsepower is required to decode it.

I'm not aware of Laser Disc providing superior output to what we can get from the 1.5mbps DTS core audio that can be extracted from a DTS-HD/MA stream, but if you feel I'm mistaken go ahead and call me out on it.

The majority of laserdiscs had PCM audio which were internally decoded by the player (which had their own DACS), and send over analog cables to the receiver, similar to how many of us are currently getting lossless without needing HDMI. Lossless is not something new with BR or HD-DVD, we had it 15 years ago, and it was taken away.

I remembered when I "upgraded" to DVDs back in 1997, and was thrilled by the picture quality improvements, but the audio sounded horrible by comparison, and I wondered initialy if I had done something wrong.

I agree with you, there is not a technical road-block here. But it looks like there are roadblocks elsewhere (whether political, marketing, money, licensing, whatever).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

I suspect that we will see a DTS-HD/MA update to the PS3 by the end of the year, if not much sooner than that.

But that is just speculation, We had similiar posts saying this would be available by the end of 2007. Hope for the best, but plan for the worst. Believe internal decoding of DTS HD/MA only when you see it.
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post #112 of 213 Old 01-10-2008, 09:33 AM
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My Harmony 550 won't control the PS3? That's a biggie for me, as I've been so excited about my new 550, and how it controls my Xbox 360 HD DVD player. I thought I read where PS3 is located under "game console with DVD" in the Harmony software.
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post #113 of 213 Old 01-10-2008, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABCD View Post

No it is not. We had better audio quality than that for movies 15 years ago. That was why I said "if you care about audio, you should avoid the PS3", but obvioisuly you feel other things are more important (and there is nothing wrong with that).

Man, I dunno. The PS3 sounds pretty damn good to me. It sounds ever bit as good as every other player I have, including HD-A3 and Denon DVD players. It may not have 'MA' yet, but it is still sounds great.

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post #114 of 213 Old 01-10-2008, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABCD View Post

The majority of laserdiscs had PCM audio which were internally decoded by the player (which had their own DACS), and send over analog cables to the receiver, similar to how many of us are currently getting lossless without needing HDMI. Lossless is not something new with BR or HD-DVD, we had it 15 years ago, and it was taken away.

I remembered when I "upgraded" to DVDs back in 1997, and was thrilled by the picture quality improvements, but the audio sounded horrible by comparison, and I wondered initialy if I had done something wrong.

I agree with you, there is not a technical road-block here. But it looks like there are roadblocks elsewhere (whether political, marketing, money, licensing, whatever).



But that is just speculation, We had similiar posts saying this would be available by the end of 2007. Hope for the best, but plan for the worst. Believe internal decoding of DTS HD/MA only when you see it.


Well, I've owned several LD players and never observed the audio to be remarkably better than some of the better mixes I've heard on SD DVD. I'm not sure what the sample rate, bit rate, etc, was on the PCM tracks for LDs that you are referring to.

You should look on the bright side. With the iminant victory of BD in the format war, most BD titles will enjoy PCM audio at a minimum, with even Warner coming on board with either PCM audio or DTS-MA.
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post #115 of 213 Old 01-10-2008, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob9874 View Post

My Harmony 550 won't control the PS3? That's a biggie for me, as I've been so excited about my new 550, and how it controls my Xbox 360 HD DVD player. I thought I read where PS3 is located under "game console with DVD" in the Harmony software.


There's a warning in the Harmony setup that it cannot control the PS3. It can be programmed to switch all of your other inputs so that it's READY for the PS3 to play, but can't actually control it.

You can buy the Nyko Blu Wave for $15. Plug the little USB stick into the front of the PS3 and in the Harmony software simply learn the Nyko commands onto the PS3 functions.

It took me about 15 minutes to set it up and it controls the PS3 perfectly. The only thing it can't do is power the PS3 off or on, which is a very minor trade off for what the PS3 can deliver for BD viewing.
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post #116 of 213 Old 01-10-2008, 09:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Well, I've owned several LD players and never observed the audio to be remarkably better than some of the better mixes I've heard on SD DVD. I'm not sure what the sample rate, bit rate, etc, was on the PCM tracks for LDs that you are referring to.

You should look on the bright side. With the iminant victory of BD in the format war, most BD titles will enjoy PCM audio at a minimum, with even Warner coming on board with either PCM audio or DTS-MA.

The sampling rate was 44K, not much different than the 48K used on HDM. Some laserdisc players just gave you the alternate analog tracks, which were not good. I hope we will now see more lossless titles from Warner. Sony & Disney are already really good in this regard.
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post #117 of 213 Old 01-10-2008, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABCD View Post

The sampling rate was 44K, not much different than the 48K used on HDM. Some laserdisc players just gave you the alternate analog tracks, which were not good. I hope we will now see more lossless titles from Warner. Sony & Disney are already really good in this regard.

so you think a 2.0 44k pcm track on laserdisc is more transparent to a 5.1 master then 5.1 dts?

it doesn't bother you that the data was re sampled for a different rate, dropped to 16 bits remixed down to 2 channels and 4 channels of data were completely deleted. to you it is still lossless and therefore better?
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post #118 of 213 Old 01-10-2008, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lanceroni View Post

Rumor has it HD DVD support is coming for the PS3

Yeah, and BD support is coming for the Toshiba HD DVD players as well.

Nothing personal against you, but generally speaking...why such a farfetched rumor would even be worth mentioning is beyond me.

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post #119 of 213 Old 01-10-2008, 10:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverjg View Post

so you think a 2.0 44k pcm track on laserdisc is more transparent to a 5.1 master then 5.1 dts?

it doesn't bother you that the data was re sampled for a different rate, dropped to 16 bits remixed down to 2 channels and 4 channels of data were completely deleted. to you it is still lossless and therefore better?

Without a doubt.

You brought up a number of separate issues. 24-bit studio masters only came into existence the last few years, so yes for laserdiscs 16-bits is faithful.

What do you mean resampled to a different rate? The studio masters were analog. The sampling was done once, there was no resampling. But for SD-DVDs, they took that and destroyed information to save space (as in DD and DTS).

I honesty never thought we would have having this "good enough" debate in a BR forum! Just getting the awful legacy DTS core is unacceptable when the MA could be used. Unless of course audio isn't that important to you, in which case get the PS3.
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post #120 of 213 Old 01-10-2008, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosox2004 View Post

Has anyone purchased the PS3 through SonyStyle for $399 and received the $100 credit by applying for their credit card? I want to pull the trigger on a BD player and I've been reading posts on all the +/-'s on the Sony S300, the Panny BD30, and the PS3. Aesthetics aside and if the early fan issues have been resolved, it sounds like the PS3 is the way to go (even though I'm not a gamer). Especially if I can get this for $299, true?


I bought my PS3 with a SonyStyle card that I applied for and got the $150 on my statement about 6 weeks later. Worked great! It does not matter where you get the PS3 from though as I bought mine off Amazon and still got the credit.

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