Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD & BDP-51FD merged threads - Page 159 - AVS Forum
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Blu-ray Players > Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD & BDP-51FD merged threads
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 05:53 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

No plasma has any scaling engine significantly better than any BD player.

Quite untrue. I suggest you look at a Pioneer Kuro and compare its processing with many BR players on the market. These upcoming Pioneer BR players look very promising and appear to have features that no other player does.

DTV TiVo Dealer's Avatar DTV TiVo Dealer 06:38 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackReilly View Post

Hello everyone,
To expand on Robert's post a little...
I just got off the phone with someone in the Pioneer organization,
who asked not to be named, that provided some firm information regarding the 51fd.
First the BM issue; the unit will come with the XO set at 100hz. The American and European branches are lobbing the
home office for a future FW to allow changing that set point,
but it won't happen in the near future. The other analog audio feature that we have asked about, speaker delay, is
going to be part of the flagship 09 model, but probably won't filiter down to the 05/51.
Pioneer has contracted with a private firm to upload FW version 1.0, the release software, into THOUSANDS of units
starting Monday. They will go onto trucks to retailers as soon as they are done and boxes sealed. The units were shipped
from Japan with the bottom of the box unsealed to allow for the final upgrade.
This was not a case of Pioneer screwing up their own operational software, but of studio's not making unreleased videos available for
testing in a brand new machine; remember, new build from the ground up.
As to the 30 plus owners of the demo machines, if they call the customer support center on Monday afternoon, they will be
mailed (2-3 day air) a disk to upgrade their players with, no online downloads.
BB really screwed the pooch by selling demo units, these players were not supposed to be sold. This wasn't a Pioneer caused problem,
but a BB problem of allowing local salesmen to offer units that were NOT supposed to sold.


Jack

Great and very accurate post Jack. Sorry I could not post this myself.

-Robert



Quote:
Originally Posted by JackReilly View Post

Maybe so, but the story was that movies that won't even be coming out until Xmas are the ones that needed to pass muster ala BD-J. Who knows for sure
Jack

I happen to know this is 100% accurate. The latest BD-J features needed to be updated.

-Robert

rto's Avatar rto 06:52 PM 08-01-2008
Hi Robert, have you heard anything specific about the PE "statement piece" BD player coming this fall, and if so, can you share it?
LS2JSTS's Avatar LS2JSTS 07:45 PM 08-01-2008
I'm wondering if 1.0 is the same as 8.6, or if there was a subsequent change that became 1.0?

This whole saga has been interesting for sure....at least for those of us with a little patience....
DKatman's Avatar DKatman 08:00 PM 08-01-2008
[quote=htwaits;14415570]

Sometimes these comments come from locations like Culver City, CA.

QUOTE]

Not sure what this means, coming from Culver City and all. I imagine you are commenting on Sony?

Dave
Pres2play's Avatar Pres2play 08:02 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjktcvs View Post

Is firmware going to fix a cheapy remote?

I checked out the remote first hand. It's decent actually. Not something like a Kuro remote, but decent enough.

I'm referring to build quality; I did not test it in anyway.
DCIFRTHS's Avatar DCIFRTHS 08:14 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

... I know for a fact the Integra's Reon does not reprocess 1080p24 to 1080p60. If you send it 1080p24 it will output 1080p24 unaltered no matter your Reon settings. You should research if it is the same case with the Denon's Realta.

I didn't realize that. I'm going to assume that the Onkyo Pro 885 is the same (but I will double check). I was hoping the Reon would deinterlace 1080p24 to 1080p60 as my SXRD does not accept 1080p24

So my display does not accpet 1080p24, and my Reon will pass it untouched. Does this mean that I have to rely on the internal processing of the BD player to convert 1080p24? If so, what is the best resolution to output? 1080p60?
fitzcaraldo215's Avatar fitzcaraldo215 08:27 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjktcvs View Post

I'm dying for the unit as mentioned before...

I have a Panny DVD player hooked up to my 8G Kuro right now. It does not have direct source and deinterlaces to 480p. I'm finding that the Reon in my Onkyo AVR is more forgiving and provides a better picture than does a direct connection from the Panny to the Kuro. I want to A/B a pure 480i, hoping that the Kuro wins out, allowing me to sell the Onkyo and pick up something less expensive that runs cooler.

I could be wrong but I think most of the heat is from the video processing. I only know first hand about the Reon processor in my Integra DTC 9.8 pre/pro, but it's hot without any amp channels on board. I assume the same is true about Realta or Faroudja. There is a lot of power computing going on for video processing, so, chances are, it's going to be hot. And, I just do not think you are going to find a high quality AVR with decent amp power or pre/pro with decent features without it's including one of the better video processors, i.e., I think they are all hot. Possible exception is the new Classe pre/pro, which, as I understand it will do no video processing. But, the price is totally rediculous given the limited feature set. Bottom line: get used to the heat.
FilmMixer's Avatar FilmMixer 08:28 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by LS2JSTS View Post

I'm wondering if 1.0 is the same as 8.6, or if there was a subsequent change that became 1.0?

This whole saga has been interesting for sure....at least for those of us with a little patience....

It's interesting to say the least..

While the internet is a great place for dissemination of information, the particular case also points out the danger of TMI...

We've all suffered through days and days of speculation, and pointless stress and apprehension about this product...

If we all weren't such know it all's with access to all kinds of information that none of us were privy too in the past, here's what would've happened...

A piece of $599 consumer electronics gear would've shipped 2 weeks late, and all would be well in the world.

Sometimes, we are all our own worst enemy.


I, for one, am happier to have the information at hand, and love being able to share with others... but it all comes at a cost, and sometimes I know I'd be happier if I'd be a little more blissfully ignorant, and obtain some patience in regards to this hobby of ours.. in the end, this player will perform as well as they designed it to, and in the scheme of CE gear, it's not all that late to market... their past performance is my benchmark on that.

I probably need to spend some more time off line... I'd probably be 30 pounds lighter, and still have all my non grey hair in place.
da Choge's Avatar da Choge 08:48 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCIFRTHS View Post

I didn't realize that. I'm going to assume that the Onkyo Pro 885 is the same. I'll have to check on that. I was hoping the Reon would deinterlace 1080p24 to 1080p60 as my SXRD does not accept 1080p24

As far as everything I have read on this topic, from the get-go, any of the Onkyo/Integra/OnkyoPro units will not touch a 1080p24 signal if they are left to (defaulted to) the internal-REON-processing mode. But, I believe, if you have your unit set for pass-through, then the Reon is bypassed, and the receiver/prepro will pass what it is given, leaving any processing up to your display (for 1080p24, it may be a straight pass-through, regardless if REON is engaged or not; can't remember). Check it out , as this has been a significantly tested/researched feature.

To bring this post back on-topic (BTW does OT mean off-topic or on-topic; seriously - don't remember) . . . anywhose . . . I think I'm going to get one of these PIOs; still looking good despite all this negativity.

- da Choge
DCIFRTHS's Avatar DCIFRTHS 08:54 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by da Choge View Post

As far as everything I have read on this topic, from the get-go, any of the Onkyo/Integra/OnkyoPro units will not touch a 1080p24 signal if they are left to (defaulted to) the internal-REON-processing mode. But, I believe, if you have your unit set for pass-through, then the Reon is bypassed, and the receiver/prepro will pass what it is given, leaving any processing up to your display (for 1080p24, it may be a straight pass-through, regardless if REON is engaged or not; can't remember). Check it out -- this has been a significantly tested feature.

- da Choge

I'm not sure what will happen if a 1080p24 signal is fed to my SXRD. Maybe it will just convert to 1080p60?

I edited my post to add the following while you were answering.

Quote:


So my display does not accpet 1080p24, and my Reon will pass it untouched. Does this mean that I have to rely on the internal processing of the BD player to convert 1080p24? If so, what is the best resolution to output? 1080p60?


fitzcaraldo215's Avatar fitzcaraldo215 08:58 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

Hey, they hyped the "billions of colors" and I expect to see a whopping display. If that wasn't what they intended, they should add a disclaimer.

I am sure that the player can do it. The problem is that there is no software, aka Blu-Ray disks with deep color, and for that matter, the studios are not shooting in deep color yet. Give it awhile, 2-3 years, perhaps, and I think you will change your tune. Remember, it's only been a few months since the Blu-Ray era officially began with the demise of HD-DVD.

Also, forget about SACD/DVD a on a Blu-Ray player. It's too tough and the market is too small. Music on Blu-Ray in the lossless codes will be where the action is, and SACD/DVD-A will go the way of 78 records. A handful of releases are out, and Neil Young (a known digital audio hater) has committed to releasing hours of music in this format. Better keep a legacy player around for these formats.
da Choge's Avatar da Choge 09:13 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCIFRTHS View Post

I'm not sure what will happen if a 1080p24 signal is fed to my SXRD. Maybe it will just convert to 1080p60?

What gen SXRD do you have? My SXRD, the latest and last of the Sony SXRD line, will accept a 1080p24 signal and process it in any of several ways, which can be selected per the SETUP menu (my SXRD has a 120Hz "refresh" rate; which means it can take a 24fps signal and process it in one of several ways, user selectable) I don't think the first-generation SXRD sets were capable of this. Other owners may be able to answer your questions better.

- da Choge
DCIFRTHS's Avatar DCIFRTHS 09:48 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by da Choge View Post

What gen SXRD do you have? My SXRD, the latest and last of the Sony SXRD line, will accept a 1080p24 signal and process it in any of several ways, which can be selected per the SETUP menu (my SXRD has a 120Hz "refresh" rate; which means it can take a 24fps signal and process it in one of several ways, user selectable) I don't think the first-generation SXRD sets were capable of this. Other owners may be able to answer your questions better.

- da Choge

I have the KDS-R70XBR2. This is the LCoS (LCD rear projection technology) . As far as I know it was the last model they made, and none of them have the 120 refresh rate or accept 1080p24 inputs. What model do you have?
Mitch57's Avatar Mitch57 09:48 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by da Choge View Post

As far as everything I have read on this topic, from the get-go, any of the Onkyo/Integra/OnkyoPro units will not touch a 1080p24 signal if they are left to (defaulted to) the internal-REON-processing mode. But, I believe, if you have your unit set for pass-through, then the Reon is bypassed, and the receiver/prepro will pass what it is given, leaving any processing up to your display (for 1080p24, it may be a straight pass-through, regardless if REON is engaged or not; can't remember). Check it out , as this has been a significantly tested/researched feature.- da Choge

I just looked at my Integra 9.8 manual and, of course, it doesn't say anything about that. However, as I read the manual, it says:

"Auto: Select this to have the AV controller automatically convert video at resolutions not supported by your TV."

Since I have a 720p plasma I'm hoping that by setting the 51FD to "Source Direct" that it will take what ever is on the disk and pass it to my 9.8 unprocessed and my 9.8 will convert it to 720p.

I'm also hoping it will do the same with SD DVDs as well. I guess I will find out by the first week of September considering I'm in Washington State.
htwaits's Avatar htwaits 09:54 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKatman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post


Sometimes these comments come from locations like Culver City, CA.

Not sure what this means, coming from Culver City and all. I imagine you are commenting on Sony?

Dave

Just that it's probably someone who works in the industry.

Can you shed any light on how movies are stored on DVDs, and how that relates to the desirability of using a 480i/HDMI output signal to avoid DVD player video processing?

I don't have the technical background to argue with people who maintain that SD DVD transfers have always been stored as 480p@24fps for film based material. I've always assumed that the stored SD DVD data is 480i which matched almost all TVs when DVDs were introduced. And that people who wanted better video processing would prefer to output an unaltered (480i) signal to get better video processing. If the native SD DVD resolution is 480p then that strategy doesn't make sense to me.
Stew4msu's Avatar Stew4msu 09:56 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCIFRTHS View Post

I have the KDS-R70XBR2. This is the LCoS (LCD rear projection technology) . As far as I know it was the last model they made, and none of them have the 120 refresh rate or accept 1080p24 inputs. What model do you have?

IIRC, LCos is a DLP technology and while it was the last model they made in that size, they made the 3000 series (basically DLP XBR3's) in smaller sizes last year.
DCIFRTHS's Avatar DCIFRTHS 10:37 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew4msu View Post

IIRC, LCos is a DLP technology and while it was the last model they made in that size, they made the 3000 series (basically DLP XBR3's) in smaller sizes last year.

The 3000 series is not the same as the XBR line. It may all be marketing bull, but the XBR is the twin to the "Elite" line. You can see the models here. Technically, there was no XBR3 in the RP SXRD product line.

LCoS is similar to DLP, but it uses three very small LCD chips (RGB) that allow the light to pass through before being reflected to the screen. There are no moving mirrors, and no color wheels.
adrian ballard's Avatar adrian ballard 10:39 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Can you shed any light on how movies are stored on DVDs, and how that relates to the desirability of using a 480i/HDMI output signal to avoid DVD player video processing?

check this out....
http://www.prillaman.net/ht_info_5-dvd.html

from the article:

Since we're talking about making best use of DVD's native resolution, perhaps we should explain what that resolution is. The native video format for DVD is 480i (see the Terms and Technology or Displays sections for details on what that means). With the arrival of enhanced definition and high definition TV's in the late 1990's, there became interest in incorporating deinterlacing video processing into DVD players to allow them to output a progressive scan signal (or 480p). The concept of progressive scan video has been around since the inception of the DVD format, but it took several years for players capable of generating a progressive video output to reach the market. By 2003, however, progressive scan had become a standard feature for new DVD players at any price point. Viewing progressive scan video requires the use of component video connections and a display capable of supporting progressive video playback (in general, this means an HDTV-compatible display); owners of standard definition televisions can not make use of progressive scan playback. With a standard (interlaced) video signal, the display refreshes every 1/60 of a second, but each refresh only re-draws every other line; each individual line is refreshed 30 times in one second. With progressive scan, however, the display re-draws all of the lines at once each time it refreshes; each individual line is refreshed 60 times in one second. For comparison, film provides 24 individual frames every second (the difference between 24 and 60 requires some manipulation as well, which is often referred to as "2-3 pulldown" or "3:2 pulldown"). The end result of progressive scan video is that it eases the burden on our eyes of merging the stream of still images into a continuous video image, behaving more like a projected film in a theater. As a result, progressive scan video can provide a clearer and more life-like picture.
John Ballentine's Avatar John Ballentine 10:41 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKatman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post


Sometimes these comments come from locations like Culver City, CA.

Not sure what this means, coming from Culver City and all. I imagine you are commenting on Sony?

Dave

When I think of Culver City - I think of Titos Tacos
LS2JSTS's Avatar LS2JSTS 10:43 PM 08-01-2008
Never the less, the 3000 series DOES accept 108024p and DOES have 120hz....Whatever slick willy marketing label Sony decided to sell their people. The A series had largely the same feature set as the last of the XBR RP's that much is fact.

And after moving from an 55A3000 to a 5080 myself, I'd venture a guess that the XBR's cant hold a candle to the Elite's whether 110,111, 150 or 151. .
DCIFRTHS's Avatar DCIFRTHS 10:46 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by da Choge View Post

What gen SXRD do you have? My SXRD, the latest and last of the Sony SXRD line, will accept a 1080p24 signal and process it in any of several ways, which can be selected per the SETUP menu (my SXRD has a 120Hz "refresh" rate; which means it can take a 24fps signal and process it in one of several ways, user selectable) I don't think the first-generation SXRD sets were capable of this. Other owners may be able to answer your questions better.

- da Choge

I did some research, and the answer to my question is that 1080p/24 signals are converted to 1080p in my display. I am not particularly happy with the internal conversion quality, so once I get the Reon hooked up, I'll be able to see which I like better.

The issue that remains is that if most movies are encoded on the BD media at 1080p/24, then I will have to rely on the BD player or my TV to do the conversion to 1080p/60. Hopefully the new Pioneer will do this better than my Sony. If I am not understanding this situation correctly, please feel free to corect me.
DCIFRTHS's Avatar DCIFRTHS 10:48 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by LS2JSTS View Post

Never the less, the 3000 series DOES accept 108024p and DOES have 120hz....Whatever slick willy marketing label Sony decided to sell their people. The A series had largely the same feature set as the last of the XBR RP's that much is fact.

And after moving from an 55A3000 to a 5080 myself, I'd venture a guess that the XBR's cant hold a candle to the Elite's whether 110,111, 150 or 151. .


What does any of this have to do with my question(s), and my TV?
LS2JSTS's Avatar LS2JSTS 10:54 PM 08-01-2008
Nothing, I thought someone had asked if the 3000 did accept 108024p, sorry for the confusion.

Don't take it personally, Heck I'd love to have an Elite myself. I just don't view the SXRD RP's as in the same league as the 8 or 9 g Elites.
DCIFRTHS's Avatar DCIFRTHS 10:56 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by LS2JSTS View Post

Nothing, I thought someone had asked if the 3000 did accept 108024p, sorry for the confusion.

No problem.
DCIFRTHS's Avatar DCIFRTHS 10:59 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by LS2JSTS View Post

Nothing, I thought someone had asked if the 3000 did accept 108024p, sorry for the confusion.

Don't take it personally, Heck I'd love to have an Elite myself. I just don't view the SXRD RP's as in the same league as the 8 or 9 g Elites.

You updated your post to add the "Don't take it personally..."

It's not a problem, I am happy with my set
DCIFRTHS's Avatar DCIFRTHS 11:05 PM 08-01-2008
Just in case it got buried in all the previous posts, and someone can confirm the following, I'd appreciate it.

Since the Reon in the Onkyo Pro 885, will not convert a 1080p/24 signal...

If most movies are encoded on the BD media at 1080p/24, then I will have to rely on the BD player or my TV to do the conversion to 1080p/60. Hopefully the new Pioneer will do this better than my Sony.
DavidHir's Avatar DavidHir 11:29 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCIFRTHS View Post

I have the KDS-R70XBR2. This is the LCoS (LCD rear projection technology) . As far as I know it was the last model they made, and none of them have the 120 refresh rate or accept 1080p24 inputs. What model do you have?

As mentioned, the A3000 series is the last SXRD RPTV line and also has a re-designed light engine. I have the 60A3000 and it accepts and displays 1080p/24 at 96hz (1080P/60 is displayed at 120hz).
htwaits's Avatar htwaits 11:38 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian ballard View Post

check this out....
http://www.prillaman.net/ht_info_5-dvd.html

from the article:

Since we're talking about making best use of DVD's native resolution, perhaps we should explain what that resolution is. The native video format for DVD is 480i (see the Terms and Technology or Displays sections for details on what that means).

Thanks. That reference gives some depth to what I thought was the case.
markrubin's Avatar markrubin 09:00 AM 08-11-2008
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