BD Player Audio Support Comparison - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 494 Old 01-19-2008, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
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DD "legacy", DTS "legacy", and LPCM are not included in the chart since player support is mandatory for all BD players.

Special Cases:
(F) Player requires a firmware update to enable this codec.
(L) Player outputs LFE channel -5db lower than normal when outputting PCM over HDMI (see owner's threads)
(LF) Player had "LFE bug" as (L) above. Issue was resolved with firmware update.
(U) Player can be upgraded to BD2.0 (exact method is unclear).
(H) Codec decoding is limited to HDMI only. For analog output DD or DTS is used instead.
(2) Codec decoding is limited to 2 channels (stereo) only.
(*) Output is limited to 48KHz/24bit due to hardware limitation.

Availability & MSRP:
Players marked 'Now' are currently available in retail stores.
Players marked 'Retired' are now longer listed on manufacturer's website or being produced but may be available in retail.
Players with projected release dates are subject to change and may be based on incomplete information.
MSRP reflects latests MSRP from manufacturer.
Product street price may vary; only the current official MSRP is shown.

Why?
I created a FAQ for HD DVD Audio; I think a similar FAQ would be useful for BD however BD audio is more "complex" due to various CE companies and more optional support of decoding vs. bitstream. I compiled information for various BD players and thanks to correction by owners it is much more accurate now.

I need your help. If you notice an error let me know the player and the correct capabilities.

When providing an update please be specific: "player X can both bitstream and decode DTS-HD MA" is helpful. "player X can do DTS-HD" is not specific enough (bitstream, decode, both, DTS-HD HR, DTS-HD MA, both).

If possible reference something (owners thread, inside information, specific post, company response, spec sheet, manual, personal experience) that indicates the issue.

Thanks for your help.

LATEST EDIT (v1.9 15 APR 2008): Updates to PS3, LG BH-200, & Denon 3800.
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post #2 of 494 Old 01-19-2008, 07:26 PM
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So it looks like all the ones that can internally decode all the formats are way to expensive...


I just want a player that can decode both DTS formats and send it out the analog outs for $300 or less!
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post #3 of 494 Old 01-19-2008, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Customgamer1 View Post



I just want a player that can decode both DTS formats and send it out the analog outs for $300 or less!

Yeah... sure.

Remember, we're talking blu ray here.... maybe they'll let you DREAM about it for $300.
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post #4 of 494 Old 01-19-2008, 09:32 PM
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Well I can hope lol.

I don't plan to buy a Blu-Ray player for more than I paid for my HD-DVD player thats over a year old!
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post #5 of 494 Old 01-19-2008, 09:52 PM
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A friend just sent me this link it is similar in comparison but easier to read...

http://www.idoblu.co.uk/page2%20Blu-ray%20Players.html
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post #6 of 494 Old 01-19-2008, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k1davis View Post

This is the first I'm hearing that the announced dual format Sammy BD-UP5500 and internally decodes all formats. If so, and the MSRP stays at $599, and Sammy actually releases it... they might just have a sale.

I agree! I am really looking into this! I know I only want to spend up to $300, but if it MSRP for $600 it can only go lower!

I would not mind paying in the 400 range if I could get the best of both worlds! I would love to upgrade my A1!
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post #7 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 07:13 AM
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I agree, but I have to say so far Samsung hasn't done very good of a job delivering on their promises when it comes to Blu-ray players. Just go read through owners threads here to see what I mean. Panasonic seems to be doing the best job, so far.

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post #8 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post

A friend just sent me this link it is similar in comparison but easier to read...

http://www.idoblu.co.uk/page2%20Blu-ray%20Players.html

The problem with this one is it simply is wrong.
It indicates every player can decode DD+ & DTS-HD HR = wrong.
It indicates the Denon are BD 2.0 = wrong.
I have emailed the author and requested he change it but no response.

So i figured if we have a matrix hosted on AVS we will be able to update it much quicker.
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post #9 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 07:25 AM
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Both resources are useful, and I see no reason not to have two.
In fact to namechaps' point, this copy is easier to keep up to date. But Kevin tries to keep his copy on idoblu.co.uk up to date as well. I emailed him yesterday and he updated it almost immediately.

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post #10 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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To try and keep this thread on topic please don't turn this into a red vs blu war or "where is my $199 BD player?" thread.

If you see any errors I have made please let me know.
If you see any missing players please let me know.
If you have any suggestions please let me know.
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post #11 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 08:04 AM
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Is the HDMI column in "Max Channels Output" intended to convey the (maximum) number of channels a compressed signal is decoded into, or does it also apply to PCM tracks?

IE what happens if there's a PCM 7.1 track on a player with "5.1" in that column?
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post #12 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 08:37 AM
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Namechamps,

The BD10 Does not bitstream DD+, TrueHD, DTSHR, or DTSMA. It will only internally decode DD+, DDTrueHD, and DTSHR. There is no DTS Master support with this player.

S~

Please use the report post button to alert staff to problematic posts. Never quote or respond to them yourself
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post #13 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teachsac View Post

Namechamps,

The BD10 Does not bitstream DD+, TrueHD, DTSHR, or DTSMA. It will only internally decode DD+, DDTrueHD, and DTSHR. There is no DTS Master support with this player.

S~

Thanks. I will post updated matrix tonight.
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post #14 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tai4de2 View Post

Is the HDMI column in "Max Channels Output" intended to convey the (maximum) number of channels a compressed signal is decoded into, or does it also apply to PCM tracks?

IE what happens if there's a PCM 7.1 track on a player with "5.1" in that column?

Yes.

For PCM I am not sure. Both Dolby & DTS have built in provisions to downmix content from 7.1 -> 5.1 -> 2.0 as needed.

One thing I am sure this does NOT affect bitstream.

This in one area that I think may have a lot of errors. Hopefully if the "fanboys" can find another thread we can get confirmation from end users on exactly what happens on various players when outputting 6.1/7.1 PCM over HDMI.
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post #15 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 02:26 PM
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From the little I know and understand I take it like this and correct me if im wrong...

Unless you have the Onkyo 605 or higher or another higher end audio receiver that has the decoders built in then you are very limited when it comes to DTS codecs correct?

It also seems that if you want these codecs and do not have the ability to decode the codecs you either can wait until these BD players get there act together and decode on the player (the new BD players coming out)

If im correct if it Bitstreams and you do not have the decoders on your receiver it converts it to something else correct? Do you lose out?
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post #16 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipse View Post

From the little I know and understand I take it like this and correct me if im wrong...

Unless you have the Onkyo 605 or higher or another higher end audio receiver that has the decoders built in then you are very limited when it comes to DTS codecs correct?

All BD players and virtually all receiver's support DTS. If you are referring to DTS-HD HR or DTS-HD MA then yes you are correct. If your receiver does not support the new formats you will either need to:

a) upgrade your receiver to one that does support the formats (such as Onkyo 605/705/805/875) and use a player that supports bitstream of advanced codecs (such as DMP-BD30).

OR

b) wait for a player than can internally decode the new formats and pass it by HDMI (PCM) or 6 channel analog. There are no release players that can do DTS-HD MA but the Dennon 3800 and Panasonic DMP-BD50 are two announced players launching "soon" that can do the decoding.

Quote:


It also seems that if you want these codecs and do not have the ability to decode the codecs you either can wait until these BD players get there act together and decode on the player (the new BD players coming out)
If im correct if it Bitstreams and you do not have the decoders on your receiver it converts it to something else correct? Do you lose out?

Nothing get's converted however DTS-HD HR & DTS-HD MA both contain a DTS 5.1 "core" which while not ultra high bitrate or lossless is still superior to DVD. If your receiver doesn't support DTS-HD HR or DTS-HD MA all BD players will extract the "core" and output that.
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post #17 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post

A friend just sent me this link it is similar in comparison but easier to read...

http://www.idoblu.co.uk/page2%20Blu-ray%20Players.html

And conveniently inaccurate, to boot! It incorrectly states that every Blu-Ray player can decode DTS-HD HR, when in fact only a third of them can. It even says the PS3 was "verified" (whatever that means) to have this capability, when it CLEARLY does not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by palofex View Post


WTF does this have to do with audio support on Blu-Ray players? Take the format rhetoric to another thread, please.

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post #18 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geko29 View Post

And conveniently inaccurate, to boot! It incorrectly states that every Blu-Ray player can decode DTS-HD HR, when in fact only a third of them can. It even says the PS3 was "verified" (whatever that means) to have this capability, when it CLEARLY does not.


WTF does this have to do with audio support on Blu-Ray players? Take the format rhetoric to another thread, please.

It can decode DTS HD HR what the PS3 cannot decode is DTS HD MA. One is lossy the other lossless.

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post #19 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 04:08 PM
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Nice chart.

You'll need to correct the analog audio output cell for the PS3. It only supports stereo L/R for analog output, not 5.1. It will indeed support 7.1 over HDMI.
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post #20 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 05:04 PM
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Nice chart, very useful. It would be nice to add MSRP if you can, and maybe release date.
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post #21 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

Nice chart.

You'll need to correct the analog audio output cell for the PS3. It only supports stereo L/R for analog output, not 5.1. It will indeed support 7.1 over HDMI.

Thanks. Will update it tonight. BTW can the PS3 decode DTS-HD HR but not DTS-HD MA or can it NOT decode either. I have heard claims either way.
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post #22 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetzalcoatl View Post

It can decode DTS HD HR what the PS3 cannot decode is DTS HD MA. One is lossy the other lossless.

When did they add it? As of the end of 2007, it could not decode HR. The manual says it can but it can't. I don't recall any updates since then.....

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post #23 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 06:24 PM
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Nice work & I know it must have taken considerable time. I appreciate your efforts and the humble way you are asking for updated info to make sure the listing is 100% accurate.

Good job!
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post #24 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namechamps View Post

Thanks. Will update it tonight. BTW can the PS3 decode DTS-HD HR but not DTS-HD MA or can it NOT decode either. I have heard claims either way.

I don't know of any DTS-HR (not MA) blurays. Even if you were to play one, how would one know if a player was decoding the HR soundtrack, as opposed to just the core?
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post #25 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

I don't know of any DTS-HR (not MA) blurays. Even if you were to play one, how would one know if a player was decoding the HR soundtrack, as opposed to just the core?

There are 21 titles from late 06 and early 07 that have it. And since it is a variable bit rate it could be hard to tell as well.

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post #26 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

I don't know of any DTS-HR (not MA) blurays. Even if you were to play one, how would one know if a player was decoding the HR soundtrack, as opposed to just the core?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetzalcoatl View Post

There are 21 titles from late 06 and early 07 that have it. And since it is a variable bit rate it could be hard to tell as well.

The core will be only DTS 5.1 @1.5Mbps so there are two way to tell:
1) With an DTS-HD HR 6.1 or 7.1 track is the PS3 outputs 5.1 it is reading the core (i.e no DTS-HD HR support). If it outputs

2) If the PS3 has a bitmeter (not sure) that shows audio bitrate that would indicate which track is being decoded. DTS-HD HR is variable but should have bitrate >1.5Mbps and peaks much hihger. DTS "legacy" will be a flat 1.5Mbps CBR (constant bit rate).
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post #27 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

I don't know of any DTS-HR (not MA) blurays. Even if you were to play one, how would one know if a player was decoding the HR soundtrack, as opposed to just the core?

One way to tell is to play a 96 kHz DTS-HD HR track, like the recent Queen release. If the player is properly setup and decodes the HR extension, then it should output a 96 kHz PCM signal after decoding the extension. If it is only decoding the core, then the signal should be output as 48 kHz PCM.

A bit-rate meter may also tell you this, but the player could simply be reading the extension's bit-rate rather than decoding it.
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post #28 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetzalcoatl View Post

There are 21 titles from late 06 and early 07 that have it. And since it is a variable bit rate it could be hard to tell as well.

A DTS-HD HR track is at a constant bit-rate just like its core. DTS-HD MA is variable since it is lossless.
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post #29 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 09:05 PM
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I tried the DTS-HD-ES (i.e. DTS-HD-HR) track from Stir of Echoes.


PS3 reports back as 1.5Mbps audio @ 48khz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

One way to tell is to play a 96 kHz DTS-HD HR track, like the recent Queen release. If the player is properly setup and decodes the HR extension, then it should output a 96 kHz PCM signal after decoding the extension. If it is only decoding the core, then the signal should be output as 48 kHz PCM.

A bit-rate meter may also tell you this, but the player could simply be reading the extension's bit-rate rather than decoding it.

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post #30 of 494 Old 01-20-2008, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

I tried the DTS-HD-ES (i.e. DTS-HD-HR) track from Stir of Echoes.


PS3 reports back as 1.5Mbps audio @ 48khz.

The PS3 currently does not internally decode the HR extension, so only the core can be output at this time.

Also, the DTS-HD HR extension on that track is 48 kHz. The reason why I mentioned the Queen Rock Montreal release is because its HR extension track is 96 kHz, while its core is 48 kHz.
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