Do you want blu-ray to remain niche? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 07:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Vader424242 View Post

...of course Blu fanboys could care less about the dumbing down of HDM by J6P, as they spend all of their time playing video games, watching the bit rate counter instead of the movie and blindly following the almighty BDA spin machine.

Since you seem to know what you are talking, how do they turn the bit rate counter on for video games
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post #92 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Tes7769 View Post

It doesn't matter what "I" or "WE" want.The point is Digital Distribution/VOD is the cheapest and easiest means of getting new media out to the masses and also has the biggest profit potential/ compared to a physical medium(whether that's BR,HD-DVD,DVD,etc).
...

true.

there is a difference between what i want and what i believe might happen.

i want bd to go mainstream.
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post #93 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Tes7769 View Post

It doesn't matter what "I" or "WE" want.The point is Digital Distribution/VOD is the cheapest and easiest means of getting new media out to the masses and also has the biggest profit potential/ compared to a physical medium(whether that's BR,HD-DVD,DVD,etc).

I went over my DL limit last month by 15gig I ended up paying $125 instead of $54... I'll stick with buying disk on amazon.
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post #94 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 09:01 AM
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To the OP...

niche to me often implies high prices and select markets. No, I would not want BR to become niche. Mass adoption and lower prices are the only way I am going in.

For those who are already BR, you may be used to the higher prices, as for me, I paid $98 for my A3. While I dont expect this to be the case, I am certainly not willing to pay 3x for 4x that for a player that really isnt what I want.

Truth be told, if Samsung came out with a BR 1080i player (my set deinterlaces well so I really dont need progressive) that offered PCM for HD audio and did great upscaling of SD, I would buy tomorrow.

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post #95 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 09:03 AM
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No physical disc format will EVER take the place of DVD nor have the success of DVD.

Ever? Never? Ever is a very long time.

No music or movie format has lasted more than about 30 years so far. Why is DVD going to stop evolution in its tracks?

Can you walk into Best Buy today and buy a copy of Transformers on BetaMax? VHS? Laserdisc?

Someday, your grandchildren will call you a geezer because you stubbornly kept your Blu-ray player!
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post #96 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

I sure want it to remain being a premium product instead of a cheap commodity good.

DVD -> "good enough" for most people, "gets the job done"

Blu-Ray -> premium product for those who care about quality and have the means to appreciate the difference

So only rich people deserve quality?

Nice, pompous attitude, thanks a ton.
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post #97 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutgar View Post

I have VOD capabilities. I find it a far cry from physical medium, including SD-DVD, but especially BD/HD-DVD.

i also have it and the quality is not there use it for movies i know i will only
watch once ,since i got apple tv that will replace my cables vod the picture
looks better but blu-ray still kicks both in the teeth currently.
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post #98 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iontyre View Post

So only rich people deserve quality?

Nice, pompous attitude, thanks a ton.

Tell that to BMW, Ferari, Mercedez, Bugatti...
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post #99 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iontyre View Post

So only rich people deserve quality?

Nice, pompous attitude, thanks a ton.

Spin much?

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post #100 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosferax View Post

I went over my DL limit last month by 15gig I ended up paying $125 instead of $54... I'll stick with buying disk on amazon.

there is talk of comcast doing that here.
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post #101 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 09:23 AM
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This fear that somehow having the masses adopt blu-ray will mean that quality will go down is insane. They won't even produce a 720p/1080i player for the VAST majority of us with these sets that don't plan on upgrading to 1080p for 5+ years. The quality is not going anywhere. Just get the prices down and EVERYONE will eventually buy into blu-ray. A 1080p player that will play ALL the content on EVERY disc at $199 and DVD is dead. We'll get ALL movies on blu-ray, and EVERYONE will be happy.
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post #102 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iontyre View Post

This fear that somehow having the masses adopt blu-ray will mean that quality will go down is insane. They won't even produce a 720p/1080i player for the VAST majority of us with these sets that don't plan on upgrading to 1080p for 5+ years. The quality is not going anywhere. Just get the prices down and EVERYONE will eventually buy into blu-ray. A 1080p player that will play ALL the content on EVERY disc at $199 and DVD is dead. We'll get ALL movies on blu-ray, and EVERYONE will be happy.

You forgot to add that the prices of BD discs need to go down to the same as DVD as well. In fact, this is probably a bigger issue than player prices.

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post #103 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 09:56 AM
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If Blu-ray remains a niche product how would we know when it's time to move on to its replacement?

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post #104 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iontyre View Post

So only rich people deserve quality?

Nice, pompous attitude, thanks a ton.

How much did your TV cost?

$1000?
$1500?
$2000?
$2500?

Should I go higher?

I am not rich, and I spend more on vacations every year than I spent on my PS3, TV and receiver.

Do you really think a three to four hundred dollar player is going to break the bank of someone who spent thousands of dollars on a TV?

PS. If they can't afford to buy the player, how many movies do you think they will be buying?
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post #105 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 09:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Newbie View Post

If Blu-ray remains a niche product how would we know when it's time to move on to its replacement?

Maybe when Toshiba comes back and puts out a prooduct that can actually match blu-ray and is approved by Elvis
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post #106 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Jiffylush View Post

How much did your TV cost?

$1000?
$1500?
$2000?
$2500?

Should I go higher?

I am not rich, and I spend more on vacations every year than I spent on my PS3, TV and receiver.

Do you really think a three to four hundred dollar player is going to break the bank of someone who spent thousands of dollars on a TV?

PS. If they can't afford to buy the player, how many movies do you think they will be buying?

Well said!

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post #107 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonnio View Post

.....The majority of people's home setups (as in a 42" flat panel that they sit 12-15' from) do not show these drastic differences, so they can't justify spending $300+ on a player and then nearly double for all their movies. ....

(reference: http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.en...tion_chart.jpg)

the vast majority of peeps are still watching 27" crt tvs, not 42" flat panels or any other hd tv. this needs to change be4 bd or any hdm can take off.
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post #108 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iontyre View Post

This fear that somehow having the masses adopt blu-ray will mean that quality will go down is insane. They won't even produce a 720p/1080i player for the VAST majority of us with these sets that don't plan on upgrading to 1080p for 5+ years. The quality is not going anywhere. Just get the prices down and EVERYONE will eventually buy into blu-ray. A 1080p player that will play ALL the content on EVERY disc at $199 and DVD is dead. We'll get ALL movies on blu-ray, and EVERYONE will be happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiffylush View Post

How much did your TV cost?

$1000?
$1500?
$2000?
$2500?

Should I go higher?

I am not rich, and I spend more on vacations every year than I spent on my PS3, TV and receiver.

Do you really think a three to four hundred dollar player is going to break the bank of someone who spent thousands of dollars on a TV?

PS. If they can't afford to buy the player, how many movies do you think they will be buying?

Lower, I won mine from ESPN2. Couple of hundred in taxes was all it cost me.
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post #109 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 10:08 AM
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The raw materials required to manufacture a Blu-Ray disc is dirt cheap. As the technology grows, the cost of production will plummet and the cost of Blu-Ray content will decrease to price that is affordable for casual movie-watchers. It's just a matter of time.

Also, within the next couple of years, HDTVs will be the standard. Almost every household has at least one TV, and whether you care about picture quality or not, there is no denying the aesthetic benefit of flat-panel TVs. They've become hella cheap right now, and they'll only get cheaper. This will most definitely open the doors for Blu-Ray to eventually become the norm. The timing of Blu-Ray's victory couldn't be better.

Prices of discs will inevitably drop. The number of HDTV owners is growing exponentially. At this point, it's just a matter of how fast BDA can take advantage by lowering player costs and how eager film companies will be to publish as many movies as they can in BD.

As for DVD, they won't be replaced. They won't become obsolete like VHS is now. BD players can play DVDs. DVD players cannot play VHS. DVD will continue to be strong for years to come.

If I had to guess, it will be mass adopted within a few years, co-existing with DVD.

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post #110 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iontyre View Post

This fear that somehow having the masses adopt blu-ray will mean that quality will go down is insane. They won't even produce a 720p/1080i player for the VAST majority of us with these sets that don't plan on upgrading to 1080p for 5+ years. The quality is not going anywhere. Just get the prices down and EVERYONE will eventually buy into blu-ray. A 1080p player that will play ALL the content on EVERY disc at $199 and DVD is dead. We'll get ALL movies on blu-ray, and EVERYONE will be happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutgar View Post

You forgot to add that the prices of BD discs need to go down to the same as DVD as well. In fact, this is probably a bigger issue than player prices.

first, the masses need to get rid of their 27" crt tvs and get hd tvs. or hdm, bd or otherwise wont go anywhere.
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post #111 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iontyre View Post

Lower, I won mine from ESPN2. Couple of hundred in taxes was all it cost me.

Ok, so the one group of people who have HDTVs but can't afford Blu-ray:

Contest winners.

Maybe you should see if there are any contests in which you can win a Blu-ray player.
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post #112 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briankmonkey View Post

Maybe when Toshiba comes back and puts out a prooduct that can actually match blu-ray and is approved by Elvis

My last DVD player was a Toshiba. I won't be buying another one.

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post #113 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westgate View Post

first, the masses need to get rid of their 27" crt tvs and get hd tvs. or hdm, bd or otherwise wont go anywhere.

I am not sure about you, but every person I know who doesn't have an HDTV, wants one.

They are waiting for different reasons, current TV not dead yet, getting ready to sell/buy a house, waiting for cheaper and larger models.

But all of them are 'in the market', and once they do make the jump to HD, they will also be potential customers for HDM.
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post #114 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiffylush View Post

Ok, so the one group of people who have HDTVs but can't afford Blu-ray:

Contest winners.

Maybe you should see if there are any contests in which you can win a Blu-ray player.

I'm trying. I entered the Amazon contest. I do pretty well on the internet actually, I've won over $10,000 in cash and prizes in the last five years. Without cheating too. Only reason I have ANY luxury items. Two teenage kids are a real drain on finances. Now the oldest is going to college next fall, out of state, over 20k per year. If I don't win a blu-ray player, I probably will be out of luck.

Yes, I am a special case.
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post #115 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westgate View Post

first, the masses need to get rid of their 27" crt tvs and get hd tvs. or hdm, bd or otherwise wont go anywhere.

the analog cutoff has inspired a few friends and neighbors to get a new
hdtv thank it will just stop there the player will follow kinda hard to go
back to round steak after you had top sirlon.
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post #116 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iontyre View Post

I'm trying. I entered the Amazon contest. I do pretty well on the internet actually, I've won over $10,000 in cash and prizes in the last five years. Without cheating too. Only reason I have ANY luxury items. Two teenage kids are a real drain on finances. Now the oldest is going to college next fall, out of state, over 20k per year. If I don't win a blu-ray player, I probably will be out of luck.

Yes, I am a special case.

All the joking about asking people others to pick lottery numbers for them, maybe you should actually be picking lottery numbers for us.

I am on the early side with my 2 kids, when my daughter got out of preschool last year my financial situation changed dramatically (about $600 a month), now my son is moving up and out of preschool in May so things are looking up.

At least until we start worrying about braces, then cars, and then college, not to mention a wedding, etc etc.
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post #117 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

I sure want it to remain being a premium product instead of a cheap commodity good.

DVD -> "good enough" for most people, "gets the job done"

Blu-Ray -> premium product for those who care about quality and have the means to appreciate the difference

Catering to the lowest common denominator will certainly hurt PQ and AQ but I would have been a bit more tactful. Describing them as trailer trash talking game console fanboys would have been too much also.
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post #118 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiffylush View Post

All the joking about asking people others to pick lottery numbers for them, maybe you should actually be picking lottery numbers for us.

I am on the early side with my 2 kids, when my daughter got out of preschool last year my financial situation changed dramatically (about $600 a month), now my son is moving up and out of preschool in May so things are looking up.

At least until we start worrying about braces, then cars, and then college, not to mention a wedding, etc etc.

You already should be worrying about college. Big time. Daughter did the braces thing. $4500. Cars? Not a chance, they want a car they get their own money for it. College we will do whatever we can, including probably losing the $100k in equity we have in our house. Weddings? Hey, there is always elopement. I'm all for that...
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post #119 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 02:13 PM
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Quote:


how do they turn the bit rate counter on for video games

I was referring to the bit rate counter on the PS3 for movies, and all the fanboys who got themselves bent out of shape because TMNT had a relatively low bitrate at certain points. If it were not for that bit rate counter, no one would have complained. But, since you must have it in gamer's terms, that's like saying that someone can tell the difference between 100FPS and 120FPS visually, which until I see an unbiased double-blind test, I call BS...

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post #120 of 171 Old 02-18-2008, 02:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Vader424242 View Post

I was referring to the bit rate counter on the PS3 for movies, and all the fanboys who got themselves bent out of shape because TMNT had a relatively low bitrate at certain points. If it were not for that bit rate counter, no one would have complained. But, since you must have it in gamer's terms, that's like saying that someone can tell the difference between 100FPS and 120FPS visually, which until I see an unbiased double-blind test, I call BS...

Who claims that, most people claim that some people can tell the difference between 60 and 120.
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