Do you want blu-ray to remain niche? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm just curious -- how many of you are hoping that blu-ray remains niche? The reason I ask is because there are benefits to it being mainstream, and benefits to it being niche. Also when I say niche, I'm not saying it would keep its current market share (1-2 %). Perhaps 10-20%?

If it becomes mainstream we get these benefits:
1) Lower prices over time
2) Almost every title guaranteed to come out at some point
3) easy to find

The bad has to do with quality vs quantity. Just some examples:
1) TV series. Since many TV shows were not recorded on film, a lot of the pre-2000 shows (mainly 80s and 90s, but including tv shows recorded on film prior to those) are effectively 480p. This may lead studios to re-release them upconverted to 1080p, and fool customers into thinking its better.
2) Also, they may take advantage of the extra space the wrong way...They may put TV series on BD and encode at lower resolution/bit-rate to allow fitting more episodes per disc. It's possible to put an entire season on one blu-ray disc if encoded at 480i and low bit-rate... even if they dont go to 480, they could easily go to 720p AVC/VC-1 to fit an entire season on one disc.
3) Releasing movies just to release them. It almost felt like Universal was doing that last summer, but we'll see a lot of that... basically no attention to quality.

I guess the main fear is that overall quality will drop. Right now studios like Disney are focused on quality because the people buying their movies are looking for it. Pirates on DVD looked pretty bad -- why?

I know that in general, DVD looks better now than it did when it first came out, but will that remain true with blu-ray?

I'm not even sure where I stand on this because, at the moment, there's no real evidence that the studios will do this, but i'm curious to hear your thoughts.

When you comment, please keep HD Downloads out of this -- CDS and downloadable music co-exist, and the same will most likely happen with movies. Whether you agree or not, let's just focus on blu-ray and what would happen if it went mainstream or niche with relation to DVDs.

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post #2 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 09:31 AM
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no i would like to see hd in all forms stomp out sd in my lifetime.
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post #3 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 09:32 AM
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I sure want it to remain being a premium product instead of a cheap commodity good.

DVD -> "good enough" for most people, "gets the job done"

Blu-Ray -> premium product for those who care about quality and have the means to appreciate the difference
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post #4 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 09:44 AM
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I want Blu-ray to become mainstream so it remains strong in the market.
Plus it means prices will be lower for movies and players.

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post #5 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 09:51 AM
 
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It would be nice to see it hit mainstream status quickly...at least maybe that would drop the software pricing closer to SD level.

However it could take forever for Blu to get to the the amount of titles SD has.
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post #6 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

I sure want it to remain being a premium product instead of a cheap commodity good.

DVD -> "good enough" for most people, "gets the job done"

Blu-Ray -> premium product for those who care about quality and have the means to appreciate the difference

Exactly.

I want Blu-ray to be successful enough that it is worth it for studios to release the majority of catalog titles. However, if mass adoption means a compromise in quality (and I don't think that is necessarily what it would mean), then keep it niche. Niche can still be successful...although probably more costly.


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post #7 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 10:04 AM
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I want it to be the 'Criterion Collection' in terms of care taken with encodes, PQ and AQ, the ultimate home document of the film. As long as there is still quality along with volume, it'd be great to see Blu-Ray replace DVD.
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post #8 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 10:15 AM
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This will be interesting espeically for the people who are somewhat forced to "probably" go Blu now. Our concern is will it impact the market at high prices or will the prices drop effectively? So many questions to be answered...


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post #9 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 10:22 AM
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Well yeah that would be great. As a HDM lover I want to see it to be strong. I would like to get all the must haves on my personal list be released in High Def. I also would like all my friends to get HDTVs so when I go over to visit we can watch a movie in High Def. I think people that buy HDTVs just to watch SD content are only fooling themselves and wasting their money. With a single HDM format on the market that can price itself competitively with DVD I think it stands a good chance to be mainstream for HDTV owners.
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post #10 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 10:29 AM
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I want Blu-ray to be successful enough that it is worth it for studios to release the majority of catalog titles. However, if mass adoption means a compromise in quality (and I don't think that is necessarily what it would mean), then keep it niche. Niche can still be successful...although probably more costly.

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I am willing to pay a premium to avoid the dumbing down of HD media to accommodate the double digit A/V IQs of J6P ("... the black bars! the black bars! They hurt my brain! I want my screen filled!")

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post #11 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Exactly.

I want Blu-ray to be successful enough that it is worth it for studios to release the majority of catalog titles. However, if mass adoption means a compromise in quality (and I don't think that is necessarily what it would mean), then keep it niche. Niche can still be successful...although probably more costly.

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post #12 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 10:49 AM
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WHAT?!??

All these people want it to remain niche?? Give me a $4.98 Blu-Ray bin at Walmart and watch me rejoice! I don't think its likely to happen but I would much rather see that than see titles stay at $39.99 MSRP which would be likely if BD never catches on with the public.

I admit though, if I ever see a Fullscreen Blu-Ray disc I will lose my mind.
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post #13 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolhand View Post

WHAT?!??

All these people want it to remain niche?? Give me a $4.98 Blu-Ray bin at Walmart and watch me rejoice! I don't think its likely to happen but I would much rather see that than see titles stay at $39.99 MSRP which would be likely if BD never catches on with the public.

I admit though, if I ever see a Fullscreen Blu-Ray disc I will lose my mind.

Did you even bother to read the posts?

Many of us want it to remain niche ONLY if mass adoption means a compromise in quality.


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post #14 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 11:08 AM
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I would prefer that Blu-ray remain a high end offering and would be willing to pay extra to be assured of higher quality.
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post #15 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 11:16 AM
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Mass adoption is not going to mean compromise in quality for BD. Look at DVD, has the quality deteriorate over the years? It's improved massively as prices plunge. It's much better for BD to be mass market, otherwise we'll all be stuck with another obsolete device a few years from now with no new software.
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post #16 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 11:38 AM
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Look at DVD, has the quality deteriorate over the years?

Yes. Look at the supplements on LD collector's editions through it's entire run. It was a niche, filled by those of us who wanted archival quality supplemental material. The special edition of T2 is still one of the most comprehensive collections out there, and aside from the interactive limitations of the format, will give just about any SE on DVD a run for its money. Now look at the state of supplemental features on DVD. Much of it is made up of "behind the scenes" and interviews that amount to little more than fluff... Give J6P their 13" B/W tv and two head VCR and they will be satisfied...

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post #17 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 11:48 AM
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i hope it becomes a REALLY DIRT CHEAP commodity good so all who want to may enjoy it.

as long as the quality remains or is improved, of course.

10' from 84" screen.


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post #18 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolhand View Post

WHAT?!??

All these people want it to remain niche?? Give me a $4.98 Blu-Ray bin at Walmart and watch me rejoice! I don't think its likely to happen but I would much rather see that than see titles stay at $39.99 MSRP which would be likely if BD never catches on with the public.

I admit though, if I ever see a Fullscreen Blu-Ray disc I will lose my mind.

What he said! gimme sum dat $4.99 blu-ray cut-out bin at wally world!

edit-2 go wit my $99.99 funai blu-ray player.

10' from 84" screen.


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post #19 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13129795 View Post

Yes. Look at the supplements on LD collector's editions through it's entire run. It was a niche, filled by those of us who wanted archival quality supplemental material. The special edition of T2 is still one of the most comprehensive collections out there, and aside from the interactive limitations of the format, will give just about any SE on DVD a run for its money. Now look at the state of supplemental features on DVD. Much of it is made up of "behind the scenes" and interviews that amount to little more than fluff... Give J6P their 13" B/W tv and two head VCR and they will be satisfied...

as one who watches the movie only, imo the pq and sq are much improved over earlier dvds.

10' from 84" screen.


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post #20 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

I sure want it to remain being a premium product instead of a cheap commodity good.

DVD -> "good enough" for most people, "gets the job done"

Blu-Ray -> premium product for those who care about quality and have the means to appreciate the difference

+1.

We'll have DVD for another 10 years if not another 20. DVD by itself is a damn good format, and for the mass-market "I'm just glad someone got it released at all" stuff, I'm happy to support it. It'll still be my format of choice for indie films and 80s TV shows.

I'd rather let BD be the premium format, for releases that need to be the best possible quality.

But hey, if everything is Blu in 10 years, I won't be complaining!

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post #21 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 12:17 PM
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Do you want blu-ray to remain niche?
Yes, less than niche.

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post #22 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stumlad View Post

The bad has to do with quality vs quantity. Just some examples:
1) TV series. Since many TV shows were not recorded on film, a lot of the pre-2000 shows (mainly 80s and 90s, but including tv shows recorded on film prior to those) are effectively 480p. This may lead studios to re-release them upconverted to 1080p, and fool customers into thinking its better.

Well, if they use film thats similar to film for movies, the the 'resolution' is FAR beyond 1080p. I doubt we have to worry about true quality here.

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2) Also, they may take advantage of the extra space the wrong way...They may put TV series on BD and encode at lower resolution/bit-rate to allow fitting more episodes per disc. It's possible to put an entire season on one blu-ray disc if encoded at 480i and low bit-rate... even if they dont go to 480, they could easily go to 720p AVC/VC-1 to fit an entire season on one disc.

Well, with the 50GB BD disk, and even the 200Gb disk that will eventually come out, I seriously doubt we have to worry about this. They would be able to effectively fit an entire season, or two, or three...or all of them at full 1080p and full lossless audio if applicable with more room to spare.

Quote:


I guess the main fear is that overall quality will drop. Right now studios like Disney are focused on quality because the people buying their movies are looking for it. Pirates on DVD looked pretty bad -- why?

I know that in general, DVD looks better now than it did when it first came out, but will that remain true with blu-ray?

Why not? Seriously, what kind of statement is that? In the High definition era that we are entering, quality moves forward, not backwards.


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When you comment, please keep HD Downloads out of this -- CDS and downloadable music co-exist, and the same will most likely happen with movies. Whether you agree or not, let's just focus on blu-ray and what would happen if it went mainstream or niche with relation to DVDs.

Kinda hard to not comment, since you have already inserted your opinion here. But DLC is a long ways off, you should know this. And while people will still probably rip movies and illegally distribute them over the net, full retail/consumer level DLC is hardly something to worry about. Maybe in 5-10 years, but not now.
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post #23 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ryder View Post

It would be nice to see it hit mainstream status quickly...at least maybe that would drop the software pricing closer to SD level.

However it could take forever for Blu to get to the the amount of titles SD has.

Well, DVD caught up to VHS in terms of overall movies right? I cant see why BD wouldn't do the same to DVD.
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post #24 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 12:25 PM
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I really don't care. It is up to the BDA to keep it from being niche, not me. I'll purchase what I think is best for me.
If BD stays a niche product I'll still purchase the titles I want and not worry about what other people are doing.

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post #25 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 12:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leukoplast View Post

Well, DVD caught up to VHS in terms of overall movies right? I cant see why BD wouldn't do the same to DVD.


Of course it will..if HDM catches fire, it will evolve like DVD has...thing is we're two years into this...I just wonder if DM will catch fire enough to warrant making all the TV shows, movies etc on Blu...

Maybe now that HD DVD is dead and the public sees that Blu is all they have to buy to enjoy hi-def on disc, studios will jump in and speed up production of discs...we will see soon enough.
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post #26 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 12:27 PM
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the part i like about dd is that people on these forums seem to think this will kill the
disc when a census was taken earlier in the year and 50% still use dial -up thats going
to help blu-ray not hurt it. sometimes i think because we have high speed internet that
the masses also have it.
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post #27 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 12:28 PM
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Anybody who answers yes is on their own agenda. There is no argument at all that BD isn't better then SD. Why would you not want BD to win over SD? It is truly sad this question needs to even be asked.
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post #28 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stumlad View Post

I'm just curious -- how many of you are hoping that blu-ray remains niche? The reason I ask is because there are benefits to it being mainstream, and benefits to it being niche. Also when I say niche, I'm not saying it would keep its current market share (1-2 %). Perhaps 10-20%?

If it becomes mainstream we get these benefits:
1) Lower prices over time
2) Almost every title guaranteed to come out at some point
3) easy to find

The bad has to do with quality vs quantity. Just some examples:
1) TV series. Since many TV shows were not recorded on film, a lot of the pre-2000 shows (mainly 80s and 90s, but including tv shows recorded on film prior to those) are effectively 480p. This may lead studios to re-release them upconverted to 1080p, and fool customers into thinking its better.
2) Also, they may take advantage of the extra space the wrong way...They may put TV series on BD and encode at lower resolution/bit-rate to allow fitting more episodes per disc. It's possible to put an entire season on one blu-ray disc if encoded at 480i and low bit-rate... even if they dont go to 480, they could easily go to 720p AVC/VC-1 to fit an entire season on one disc.
3) Releasing movies just to release them. It almost felt like Universal was doing that last summer, but we'll see a lot of that... basically no attention to quality.

I guess the main fear is that overall quality will drop. Right now studios like Disney are focused on quality because the people buying their movies are looking for it. Pirates on DVD looked pretty bad -- why?

I know that in general, DVD looks better now than it did when it first came out, but will that remain true with blu-ray?

I'm not even sure where I stand on this because, at the moment, there's no real evidence that the studios will do this, but i'm curious to hear your thoughts.

When you comment, please keep HD Downloads out of this -- CDS and downloadable music co-exist, and the same will most likely happen with movies. Whether you agree or not, let's just focus on blu-ray and what would happen if it went mainstream or niche with relation to DVDs.

I don't think I care one way or the other . . . but I surely do believe it will remain a relatively small niche.

A long-time audio/video addict!
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post #29 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ryder View Post

Of course it will..if HDM catches fire, it will evolve like DVD has...thing is we're two years into this...I just wonder if DM will catch fire enough to warrant making all the TV shows, movies etc on Blu...

Maybe now that HD DVD is dead and the public sees that Blu is all they have to buy to enjoy hi-def on disc, studios will jump in and speed up production of discs...we will see soon enough.

Its just a matter of time. HDM will catch fire, just as all the other formats before had done to their predecessors. This is no different than DVD to VHS, or CD to tape etc.

Maybe its just because we see all the HDM as something entirely different. But in reality, its no different than DVD to VHS. Since DVD was a HUGE jump from VHS, I'm sure back then people didn't think DVD would be the mainstream product either.
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post #30 of 171 Old 02-16-2008, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Exactly.

I want Blu-ray to be successful enough that it is worth it for studios to release the majority of catalog titles. However, if mass adoption means a compromise in quality (and I don't think that is necessarily what it would mean), then keep it niche. Niche can still be successful...although probably more costly.

This is my thought exactly. I'd like it to go mainstream, but I'm much more interested in seeing a focus on quality.
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