Is it in Microsoft's best interest to release a Blu-ray add-on? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, apparently and I stress apparently that Toshiba Japan has made it official that they are stopping all HD-DVD production.

See this article:
http://www.reuters.com/article/techn...37974620080216

IN MY OPINION, now that the format war is officially over we can reasonably expect to see bluray player sales pick up (therefore PS3 sales).

However, the more PS3's being sold, the harder it is for MS to gain a greater share in the console market.

SO my question to everybody is this:
Is it in Microsofts best interest to quickly get a bluray player add-on to take away some of those buyers who would pick up a PS3 instead.


MS Insiders: I would LOVE to get some feedback from you.


Yes, I have posted this same thread in other forums.

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post #2 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 11:53 AM
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I don't think it will happen (at least not anytime soon). Microsoft created HDi so it was easy and free (to them) to add support onto their console. The same is not true for BD-J. It's much more complicated than HDi and Sun and Microsoft haven't exactly been in agreement regarding Java in the past. Microsoft would probably want to have full control over how BD-J is implemented and Sun would decline.

There is also the issue of licensing costs. Microsoft would have to pay big bucks to allow BD to play on their console.

The only possibility that might work is Microsoft only supporting the movie itself and not the menu system. BD uses the same codecs as HD DVD so that would be pretty easy to implement. I think that's the only way we'll see BD on the XBOX360.
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post #3 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shawnmos View Post

I don't think it will happen (at least not anytime soon). Microsoft created HDi so it was easy and free (to them) to add support onto their console. The same is not true for BD-J. It's much more complicated than HDi and Sun and Microsoft haven't exactly been in agreement regarding Java in the past. Microsoft would probably want to have full control over how BD-J is implemented and Sun would decline.

There is also the issue of licensing costs. Microsoft would have to pay big bucks to allow BD to play on their console.

The only possibility that might work is Microsoft only supporting the movie itself and not the menu system. BD uses the same codecs as HD DVD so that would be pretty easy to implement. I think that's the only way we'll see BD on the XBOX360.

Im not saying it has to be a happy marriage, but if they can play the movies themselves, I think most people would be happy.

However, the HDi vs. BD-J issue does leave a lot of questions. The 360 is a powerful enough system that Im sure it could emulate BD-J. Of course that is a question for insiders.

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post #4 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 12:01 PM
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its not like microsoft to shy away from anything they can make a profit on.
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post #5 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 12:04 PM
 
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Does the 360 even have the bandwidth capabilities for the video? Granted we know the audio will be crippled unless they do another hardware revision.
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post #6 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

its not like microsoft to shy away from anything they can make a profit on.

Key words... Sonys ps3 blue ray isn't yet. Why would Microsoft subsidize blue ray?

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post #7 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 12:07 PM
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I find it hilarious that microsofts next console will most likely come with a blu ray drive
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post #8 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 12:13 PM
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HD DVD add on didn't sell that well for X360
So why bother releasing it? Plus, Xbox360 cant even output 5.1 lossless so I don't think Microsoft cares at this point.
I love X360 for gaming, But I'd rather Microsoft fix all the hardware problems in the console instead of developing a add on which wont help them at this point.

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post #9 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeytown Fan View Post

Key words... Sonys ps3 blue ray isn't yet. Why would Microsoft subsidize blue ray?

got a link to that.
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post #10 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 12:17 PM
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Not in this generation. The value proposition would be way out of whack. A PS3 for ~$400 with Blu-ray built in, or an XBox 360 for $350 + however much the addon would cost, with performance limitations? Nope, I don't think they would go there.

At least with HD DVD it was apples and oranges. Apples and apples would just look bad. Better to change the subject to exclusive games, XBox Live, and downloads.
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post #11 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 12:20 PM
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Yes, Microsoft will market a Blu-ray addon or maybe a built-in. Toshiba will perhaps build it for them.

Most customers don't even know what "BD-J" is let alone caring about it. Besides, that is a old battle.

Microsoft is trying to buy Yahoo now and obviously that is more of a mainline concern. They will be wanting to shore up the XBox 360 with an HD solution to replace the add-on.

I also predict that Nintendo will have a Blu-ray drive in the Wii. They have said that they would come out with a model that supports DVD, but I think they will look at the hidef situation and decide that it must be Blu-ray.


These consoles are going to become more multi-purpose. With Blu-ray, the Playstation is somewhat ahead on this point, but Microsoft is ahead on their download infrastructure, which Sony is now adding for the PS3.
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post #12 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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I guess, we will find out for sure.

But you are right that Yahoo is their biggest concern.

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post #13 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SheepFactory View Post

I find it hilarious that microsofts next console will most likely come with a blu ray drive

Most consoles have using proprietary formats for as long as I can remember.

The three in exception (that I can recall) are the Xbox, the 360, and the PS2.

With the ease of replication, I highly doubt an HD DVD drive in an Xbox 720(or whatever it will be called) would be all that hard to go with.

15/30GB might be plenty for the nex-nex-gen. Hell they may do away with it and go with Flash cards.

Which would be a funny dose of irony. Cartridges to discs to cartridges.

59 Blu-rays and counting...
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post #14 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JE3146 View Post

15/30GB might be plenty for the nex-nex-gen. Hell they may do away with it and go with Flash cards.

I don't see how that would work at all.

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post #15 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by rlsmith View Post

Yes, Microsoft will market a Blu-ray addon or maybe a built-in. Toshiba will perhaps build it for them.

Most customers don't even know what "BD-J" is let alone caring about it. Besides, that is a old battle.

Microsoft is trying to buy Yahoo now and obviously that is more of a mainline concern. They will be wanting to shore up the XBox 360 with an HD solution to replace the add-on.

I also predict that Nintendo will have a Blu-ray drive in the Wii. They have said that they would come out with a model that supports DVD, but I think they will look at the hidef situation and decide that it must be Blu-ray.


These consoles are going to become more multi-purpose. With Blu-ray, the Playstation is somewhat ahead on this point, but Microsoft is ahead on their download infrastructure, which Sony is now adding for the PS3.


I guess I don't exactly follow you about MS buying YAHOO. What in the world does that have to do with Blu Ray? Two completely different divisions, the folks that are responsible for deciding if MS will put out a Blu Ray addon probably know less about the Yahoo deal than you do...

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post #16 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 01:28 PM
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I would buy an add on.

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And continued thanks to the original backers of BD, Sony - Disney - Fox - Lionsgate
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post #17 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SheepFactory View Post

I find it hilarious that microsofts next console will most likely come with a blu ray drive

You're assuming the next generation xbox will come with an optical drive. I'm not entirely sure that will be the case. Optical is nearing the end of its lifespan, imho.

I do think Microsoft is up to something right now. My guess is we'll hear something at GDC, maybe a new SKU.
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post #18 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 01:50 PM
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Every single PS3 has the cell, BD and at least a 20G HDD. The competition can't say that.

Since mainstream software is usually designed for the lowest common denominator this gives the PS3 a nice advantage going forward.

Sony aimed high and long-term with the PS3. It cost them dearly out of the gate, but paid a dividend with the blu-ray victory and may continue to pay down the road as its software does what the competition cannot.

MS can add blu-ray to the 360, but few developers will use it because of the limited audience.
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post #19 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JE3146 View Post

Most consoles have using proprietary formats for as long as I can remember.

The three in exception (that I can recall) are the Xbox, the 360, and the PS2.

With the ease of replication, I highly doubt an HD DVD drive in an Xbox 720(or whatever it will be called) would be all that hard to go with.

Except there won't be anyone making them and there won't be any replication facilities.

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post #20 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 02:23 PM
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The chances of MS coming out with a BlueRay drive for the 360 isn't a very strong likelihood.Right now, most people that own 360's that want HiDef movies/tv dload it from the XBL Video Store which actually sells more HD content that iTunes.The 360 is also a NextGen Video game console first and foremost. With those facts, there isn't likely to be a call or a want from the installed 360/XBL user base for an add-on BR player.There also would have to be a decent profit potential in it for MS and i somehow doubt MS would pay to license the tech from Sony.

In short.We'll likely see a 360 add-on BluRay drive when pig's fly.

MS' "next" console is likely to use a DD/solid state memory/large HD combo.They've already said they've been at work on the 360's successor since early last year and that it was unlikely to use an optical drive.
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post #21 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 02:29 PM
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Probably... now... more than ever... Microsoft's next game console will not even need a Blu-ray or HD DVD drive.
No more physical media needed.

Sony will take years to recoup a dime from all the money they invested in making the PS3 possible.
And just when they are about to... Bang!

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post #22 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Technicolor View Post

Probably... now... more than ever... Microsoft's next game console will not even need a Blu-ray or HD DVD drive.


I guess in the mind of the consumer interested in HD movies the PS4 will be the better value than, no?

It isn't the size of the disk that counts, but how you use it.

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post #23 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 30XS955 User View Post

I guess in the mind of the consumer interested in HD movies the PS4 will be the better value than, no?

I've no idea.
But I don't feel Msft is giving up on its console.
I don't believe they will let Sony keep any apparent edge.
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post #24 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 02:41 PM
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I've no idea.
But I don't feel Msft is giving up on its console.
I don't believe they will let Sony keep any apparent edge.

Unless MS releases the Xbox 720 with a 1tb hard drive and assumes that every user will be happy downloading games and movies rather than owning a tangible product, they're stuck with BD.

It isn't the size of the disk that counts, but how you use it.

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post #25 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 03:11 PM
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Microsoft has hinted for months now that they would not be opposed to eventually adding a Blu-Ray add-on. Of course, we all knew that they would prolong it as much as possible since they had an mega invested interest in HD-DVD. Well, now that the war is over, of course they'll be doing an XBOX360 Blu-Ray add-on. They have to to compete with the PS3. I am predicting that by 2009 the PS3 will be consistently outselling the XBOX360 because of the built in Blu-Ray capability and DVD losing more and more market share to HDM (and another $100 reduction!).
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post #26 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 03:11 PM
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I imagine they will release a Blu-Ray add-on just like they released the HD-DVD add on. I just hope they can find a way on the 360's with the HDMI out to output multichannel PCM if they can't already. That is the main reason I don't go out and buy the HD-DVD add on right now for my Elite considering it's only $130 just to get the few HD-DVD's I can't get on Blu-Ray (and technically the 5 free HD-DVD deal lasts until 2/28 and I imagine at least those will be filled even if Toshiba or the other HD-DVD group shuts down the format as they could probably get sued big time if they don't make good on the deal to people that qualify). I was under the impression that all HDMI specs support multichannel PCM so I don't understand why the 360's with this couldn't output it. Of course, it didn't matter with the HD-DVD add on as no HD-DVD's that I am aware of contain PCM soundtracks and the legacy codecs can be output through optical.
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post #27 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 30XS955 User View Post

Unless MS releases the Xbox 720 with a 1tb hard drive and assumes that every user will be happy downloading games and movies rather than owning a tangible product, they're stuck with BD.

They are going to need something bigger than 1tb.

Just think. If the 360 used HD-DVD's to put the games on or even blu-ray like PS3 it can use lets say 30gigs a game.

That would only be 33 games max at 1tb and we all know hard drives are not perfect and that number is like 900gig or something.

Thats not even including all the demos, music, pics and whatever else you want on the system.

They would need to put like a 2 or 3tb drive if they want to toss the disk idea.

Also why would they want to toss selling games at stores? If you could just download everything then over time stores will be useless and will be nothing less than buying stuff online only.
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post #28 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HariSeldon View Post

I imagine they will release a Blu-Ray add-on just like they released the HD-DVD add on. I just hope they can find a way on the 360's with the HDMI out to output multichannel PCM if they can't already. That is the main reason I don't go out and buy the HD-DVD add on right now for my Elite considering it's only $130 just to get the few HD-DVD's I can't get on Blu-Ray (and technically the 5 free HD-DVD deal lasts until 2/28 and I imagine at least those will be filled even if Toshiba or the other HD-DVD group shuts down the format as they could probably get sued big time if they don't make good on the deal to people that qualify). I was under the impression that all HDMI specs support multichannel PCM so I don't understand why the 360's with this couldn't output it. Of course, it didn't matter with the HD-DVD add on as no HD-DVD's that I am aware of contain PCM soundtracks and the legacy codecs can be output through optical.


What you are missing is the fact that the 360 can't output any of the advanced audio. It can't do Dolby True HD, PCM, DTS Master etc.

All it can do is standard DD and DTS.
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post #29 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Customgamer1 View Post

What you are missing is the fact that the 360 can't output any of the advanced audio. It can't do Dolby True HD, PCM, DTS Master etc.

All it can do is standard DD and DTS.

Then I guess we'll be seeing the 360 Super Elite. My apologies in advance to those who already bought the normal 360 and got the shaft earlier as well as those who bought the Elite and are now getting the shaft. Got to love MS!
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post #30 of 215 Old 02-16-2008, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by capablanca View Post

Microsoft has hinted for months now that they would not be opposed to eventually adding a Blu-Ray add-on. Of course, we all knew that they would prolong it as much as possible since they had an mega invested interest in HD-DVD. Well, now that the war is over, of course they'll be doing an XBOX360 Blu-Ray add-on. They have to to compete with the PS3. I am predicting that by 2009 the PS3 will be consistently outselling the XBOX360 because of the built in Blu-Ray capability and DVD losing more an more market share to HDM (and another $100 reduction!).

By 2009? You mean in ten and a half months? How much do you want to bet the ps3 doesn't sell more than the 360 in ANY month from now until then? Don't look at January's numbers alone. Ps3 sales only fell 42% percent from last November and 66% from December 2007 in January. The 360 fell 70% from last November and a whopping 81.7% from December 2007 in January. Did 360 demand tank in January for some reason? If so I would like to know why. Of course it didn't. Maybe the hardware shortage Microsoft reported did have an effect, hm? Unless it persists 360 will continue to outsell ps3 like usual and the ps2 will still continue to dominate the ps3 as well like it did in December (1.1 million ps2's to 796,600 ps3's. Maybe Sony should get that backward compatability back in the ps3 so somebody will buy it).
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