Displays that support 1080p/24 signal at multiplies of the original frame rate - Page 10 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #271 of 351 Old 07-30-2008, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
HDTV1080P24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 588
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Panasonic TH-50PZ800U September 2008 Sound and Vision review link
(800U will not be added to the list because of unwatchable flicker issue)

Here is another review on the Panasonic 800U that mentions the flickering problem when a 1080P/24 signal is applied. Hopefully future models of Panasonic will correct this issue so that BLU-RAY videophiles will have more then one brand of true 1080P/24 Plasma displays to choose from.


Quote from Sound and Vision (September review)


Although the TV's 24p input mode mostly worked well, smoothing out picture judder in movie scenes with camera pans when the 48-Hz option was selected, it also caused the screen to flicker a bit. The effect could mostly be seen in shots with bright backgrounds such as snow or sky. Once I noticed it, the flickering was tough to ignore, so I decided to use the set's 60-Hz display option for all of my viewing.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hdtvs/2906/panasonic-th-50pz800u-performance-page2.html
HDTV1080P24 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #272 of 351 Old 07-30-2008, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
HDTV1080P24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 588
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Toshiba LCD Flat Panel 52XF550U (second review link)


Originally in a prior post I mentioned that according to Sound and Vision review link and Toshiba's spec sheets that the XV540U and XF550U series are both true 5:5 pulldown displays.

Quote
When sending a 1080p/24 signal to the TV from a Blu-ray player, the Standard mode engages 5:5 pulldown (each original film frame that's been encoded to video is displayed five times to hit the TV's 120-Hz refresh rate).

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hdt...-lcd-hdtv.html

New comparison review mentions that the Toshiba 52XF550U has better picture quality compared to Sony XBR4 (black level) but the Samsung LN52A750 is still the best LCD display reviewed in terms of picture quality

The new Samsung LN55A950 LCD flat panel in theory once reviewed should have better picture quality compared to the existing Samsung LN52A750. I am sure Sony will also release some new XBR displays to try and beat Samsung and Toshiba LCD displays black levels. It is great to see so much competition in the LCD world to keep improving true 1080P/24 display picture quality. It is too bad Pioneer is the only Plasma brand to choose from when it comes to the true 1080P/24 feature. Plasma screens still have a better picture quality then LCD screens I just wish there was more Plasma screens to choose from that offer 1080P/24 refresh rates.


Toshiba new LCD screens are excellent quality

Quotes from Ultimateavmag

At $3300, the Toshiba is $100 more than the Samsung LN52A750 and $700 less than the Sony KDL-52XBR4. Of the three, I prefer the Samsung with its better blacks, frame interpolation, connectivity features, and user interface. The Toshiba beats the Sony's effective blacks, and while their menu systems are very different, I don't particularly like either one. The Toshiba has a much thinner bezel than either of the others, which could be important for buyers with limited space.
There are many things to like about the Toshiba 52XF550U, including detail, color, shadow detail, and black level, the last of which was better than most LCD TVs can manage, at least with a low backlight setting. The 120Hz frame interpolation caused some artifacts in some test patterns, but not with real-world content. Then again, it didn't seem to help much, either.
On the downside, I was unable to fully calibrate the grayscale, though I didn't see any big problems in real-world material because of it. And while the color points were way off out of the box, the ColorMaster controls let me dial them in beautifullyjust don't try it at home unless you have a colorimeter and know how to use it.
All in all, the 52XF550U is worthy of serious consideration.

Highs
Great color and detail
Excellent blacks and shadow detail
Color points can be shifted to near-perfection

Lows
Frame interpolation doesn't seem to do much
Standard-def processing not great
Grayscale can't be fully calibrated
http://ultimateavmag.com/flatpaneldisplays/708tosh550u/index4.html
HDTV1080P24 is offline  
post #273 of 351 Old 07-30-2008, 09:23 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
HDTV1080P24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 588
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Should the Panasonic 800U and 850U be added to the list again?


I have received an email from a person claiming to be a Panasonic 800U owner. This person informed me that the unwatchable flicker problem that the professional reviewers have mentioned does occur at 48HZ but then after around 75 hours after the Panasonics Plasma break in period the flicker issue improved and the display was watchable again. I do realize that film even in the theaters when refreshed at 48HZ has a small amount of natural flicker. If the Panasonics 48HZ refresh mode is watchable after 75 hours then the display should be added to the list again.

This is a complicated issue. Technically the Panasonic has 48HZ refresh but then since it was reported that the mode makes it unwatchable I decided to remove it from the list after making a policy change to remove any display that is unwatchable when a 1080P/24 signal is applied at multiplies of the original frame rate.

Here is a copy of the comments I received in email from a Panasonic 800U user


"I wanted to add something about the flicker in the Panasonic 800U plasma's 48Hz mode. I was bothered by it at first with the brightest scenes, but the effect is essentially non-existent after about 75 hours of use. I have experience with CRT projectors that refresh at 48Hz, and the flicker with this plasma is nowhere near on the same level.

Anyway, you'll find that a lot of 800U owners use the 48Hz mode for 1080p/24 signals. I can no longer notice the flicker at all when viewing in a darkened room. It seems that one's eyes adjust to it and/or the display breaks-in where the effect is significantly mitigated. If I were a reviewer and had limited time with the display like CNET did, then I would definitely note the 48Hz mode as being "unwatchable." But, as an owner who's spent a good amount of time with it, I will now say that the 48Hz mode is desired. The clarity and smoothness that this mode provides with virtually no artifacts is quite impressive.

I just wanted to add my perspective on this issue as an 800U owner who can be obsessive over audio/video quality.
HDTV1080P24 is offline  
post #274 of 351 Old 07-30-2008, 10:20 PM
Senior Member
 
word302's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 249
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have had the 50" panny 800 for about a month now. While the flicker is noticeable, I would hardly call it unwatchable. My set has around 200 hours hours. I did not feed it a 24p signal until about a week ago, so I can't really comment on how much "better" it has gotten. I can say that I watch all of my blu-rays at 24p and it does not bother me at all.

Kent
word302 is offline  
post #275 of 351 Old 08-01-2008, 04:08 PM
Member
 
msilverz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Is there any word on whether the new Hitachi Plasmas can properly handle 1080p24? (Actually, is there any word about them at all? I know they exist--I saw a P50X902 at my local Home Theater shop--but I haven't read any reviews.)

Matty
msilverz is offline  
post #276 of 351 Old 08-11-2008, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
HDTV1080P24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 588
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by msilverz View Post

Is there any word on whether the new Hitachi Plasmas can properly handle 1080p24? (Actually, is there any word about them at all? I know they exist--I saw a P50X902 at my local Home Theater shop--but I haven't read any reviews.)

Matty

The Hitachi's have been added to the list.
HDTV1080P24 is offline  
post #277 of 351 Old 08-11-2008, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
HDTV1080P24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 588
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Panasonic 800U and 850U added to the list again

Important list Policy change info


The list will continue to include only USA displays that offer an option to bypass the 3/2 pulldown process and refresh the image on the screen at multiplies of 24 frames per second when a 1080P/24 signal is applied. The list will also continue to include the brands and models of displays that some professional reviewers feel do not offer much improvement in quality between 60HZ and true 24P BLU-RAY film mode.

Changes made to the list policy

I have decided to once again add any brand and model of display that a professional reviewer mentions as being unwatchable or unwatchable flicker. What I will try and do is mark the displays on the list in red with a link to the quote that mentions the display is unwatchable when the true 1080P/24 film mode is turned on. It is possible that to some people a flicker on the screen for some brands and models of displays is watchable and to another group of people the image is unwatchable.
I never thought I would run into a review that mentions a display is unwatchable in true 1080P/24 mode at 48HZ. This has been a difficult decision for me but I think it is in the best interest for the individual consumer to determine if a flicker on the screen is watchable or not watchable. Still since every review on the Panasonic 800U and 850U has mentioned a flicker problem or unwatchable flicker problem at 48HZ the list needs to have a warning with a link mentioning the issue. It would be awesome if a future firmware update could some how fix this issue.
HDTV1080P24 is offline  
post #278 of 351 Old 08-11-2008, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
HDTV1080P24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 588
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
3 New Hitachi 48HZ Plasma flat panels have been added to the list


· 50-inch S-Series (model P50S602): $2,699

· 50-inch V-Series (model P50V702): $3,199

· 50-inch X-Series (model P50X902): $3,699


Hitachi P50X902 (48HZ Plasma) Click link to the left to see Hitachi spec sheet

Hitachi P50V702 (48HZ Plasma) Click link to the left to see Hitachi spec sheet

Hitachi P50S602 (48HZ Plasma) Click link to the left to see Hitachi spec sheet

Quote from Hitachi press release

"The new PictureMaster VI digital video processor features the second generation of Hitachi's Reel60 technology, a patented innovation that eliminates judder for the ultimate in smooth, clear motion. The new HDTV's also debut a new feature for film fans called Cinema48. Working exclusively with 24p HDMI inputs, Cinema48 provides viewers with the same visual timing and feeling that they experience in movie theaters..

http://www.hitachi.us/Apps/hitachicom/content.jsp?page=PressReleases/details/06122008_2.html&path=jsp/hitachi/aboutus/Press-Media/

The Hitachi P50X902 and P50V702 include a free weekly on screen TV guide. The Hitachi P50S602 includes a free daily on screen TV guide. I would like to see a review on the Hitachi P50X902. The P50X902 appears to be a high quality display with a two year parts and labor warranty and custom white balance with digital color management control. The Hitachi's only have 3 HDMI inputs. Other brands like Pioneer and Samsung flat panels have 4 HDMI inputs.
HDTV1080P24 is offline  
post #279 of 351 Old 08-11-2008, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
HDTV1080P24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 588
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
The Samsung LN52A550 will not be added to the list since it is a 60HZ only display

Quote
The set's HDMI ports are also compatible with the 1080p24 (24 Hz) video signals that some Blu-ray disc players, such as the Panasonic DMP-BD30, can provide. However, the 60-Hz display technology lacks the frame interpolation/repeating capabilities of the more costly 120-Hz-enabled sets such as the LN52A750 and the LG 47LG60, capabilities that can minimize the judder that occurs when 24-Hz material is converted for display at 60 Hz.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2326476,00.asp
HDTV1080P24 is offline  
post #280 of 351 Old 08-11-2008, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
HDTV1080P24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 588
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
2 New Mitsubishi LCD flat panels have been added to the list




The Mitsubishi 149 series flat panels bypass the 3:2 pulldown process when a 1080P/24 signal is applied and smooth film motion is turned off.





149 SERIES SPEC SHEET


1080P/24 correctly refreshed at 120HZ without 3:2 pulldown (also called 2:3 pulldown) when Smooth Film Motion is turned off.

According to the spec sheet above the 149 series has the same smooth 120HZ film motion that CNET reviewed in detail on the 148 series. The major difference between the 148 and 149 series is the 149 series has a built in cable card (one way cable box) and on screen interactive TV guide.

Quote from CNET on the 148 series review
We also checked out how the Mitsubishi handled a 1080p/24 source by setting our PS3 in that mode and turning off the TV's Smooth 120 dejudder processing. The result was the best we'd seen so far from the set. Like the Sony and the Samsung, the 120Hz Mitsubishi displayed the 24-frame source faithfully, with standard film judder but without the characteristic extra hitching motion caused by the 2:3 pull-down process (which isn't necessary with 120Hz TVs displaying 24-frame content). Compared with the Panasonic, which we set at the standard 60Hz mode, the pan over the aircraft carrier, for example, looked more natural and smoother (in a good way!) on the 120Hz LCDs than on the Panasonic plasma. Of course, to most viewers the difference will be subtle, but for people with Blu-ray players who pay attention, it's worth it.





HDTV1080P24 is offline  
post #281 of 351 Old 08-11-2008, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
HDTV1080P24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 588
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Pioneer Kuro PDP-6020FD Plasma

Sept 2008 Home Theater review info


On page 68-71 of the September 2008 Home Theater magazine, Thomas J Norton has written a review on the Pioneer KURO PDP-6020FD. Overall the picture quality is better on this new 9th generation display compared to the 8th generation display but the cheaper priced 9th generation comes at a cost with reduced features compared to last years model. In a prior post I went into details about the inputs in the back that were eliminated and other features that were eliminated to cut cost on the new 9th generation Pioneer's. Thomas J. Norton over at Homer Theater magazine mentions the remote control is not as good this year and the menus on the non Elite's this year offer no color-temp control and other menu settings are not included to simplify the menus. The new Elite and Signature series which cost more will offer these advanced adjustments.
An excellent feature that only Pioneer offers is that it is currently the only flat panel brand that will automatically turn on the true 1080P/24 film mode when one inputs a 1080P/24 signal from a BLU-RAY player, then the flat panel refreshes the image properly at 72HZ regardless of any menu settings. All other Plasma and LCD flat panel screens so far that I have seen and have read reviews of all require consumers to mess around with the motion features or other settings need to be changed in order to properly display 1080P/24 like a film projector. It is so nice and easy for the consumer to just place their BLU-RAY player on 1080P/24 and the Pioneer will automatically do the rest in terms of properly displaying the 72HZ film rate.

Highlights from the Home Theater review

However, if your program material is already at 1080p/24, the Pioneer automatically converts it to a display frame rate of 72fps (using repeated frames, not interpolation), regardless of the PureCinema control setting.

State-of-the-art black level, shadow detail, and contrast ratio

Color temperatures are inaccurate and cannot be calibrated

Some video processing artifacts

The Pioneer remote lacks backlighting, and it has smaller buttons than the remote that came with last year's model.

Pioneer clearly made a concerted effort to simplify the operation of its standard sets. However, this simplification comes at a price. The set includes few specialized controls:no color space options, no gamma settings, no noise reduction, no enhancements, and no other special tweaks.
Perhaps most important, none of the picture modes offers any color-temperature control. They don't even provide fixed settings such as Low, Middle, and High. Plus, according to Pioneer, you can't calibrate the gray scale, even via the hidden service menu. You just get what the factory ordered, no more and no less. This would not be a problem if one or more of the modes adhered closely to the D65 color temperature standard. But none of them does.
Potential buyers should know that the new Pioneer Elite sets and the new Signature Series monitors will offer extensive adjustments. Thankfully, they will both include full calibration controls for color temperature.

Conclusions
The Pioneer KURO PDP-6020FD excels in far more than just blacks. But I can't overstate the importance of rich blacks, particulary if you are a movie fan. I never once wished for deeper blacks or better shadow detail.
Yet, I do wish that the set's color temperature were more accurate. And I don't like to see any manufacturer eliminate the ablity to correct color-temperature deviations. I particularly don't like to see Pioneer do it, since its sets are arguably the best on the market. For that reason, my recommendation here is less enthusiastic than it might have been otherwise.
But unless another manufacturer springs an unexpected surprise, Pioneer's ninth-generation plasma will be the sets to beat this year.
HDTV1080P24 is offline  
post #282 of 351 Old 08-11-2008, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
HDTV1080P24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 588
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Since this website experienced a server problem that caused data to be lost, I have restored the list to a current upto date state from the other two websites that have the exact same list.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=5155
http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=25688
HDTV1080P24 is offline  
post #283 of 351 Old 08-13-2008, 02:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
kagolu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: FL
Posts: 1,301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P24 View Post

Panasonic 800U and 850U added to the list again

Important list Policy change info


The list will continue to include only USA displays that offer an option to bypass the 3/2 pulldown process and refresh the image on the screen at multiplies of 24 frames per second when a 1080P/24 signal is applied. The list will also continue to include the brands and models of displays that some professional reviewers feel do not offer much improvement in quality between 60HZ and true 24P BLU-RAY film mode.

Changes made to the list policy

I have decided to once again add any brand and model of display that a professional reviewer mentions as being unwatchable or unwatchable flicker. What I will try and do is mark the displays on the list in red with a link to the quote that mentions the display is unwatchable when the true 1080P/24 film mode is turned on. It is possible that to some people a flicker on the screen for some brands and models of displays is watchable and to another group of people the image is unwatchable.
I never thought I would run into a review that mentions a display is unwatchable in true 1080P/24 mode at 48HZ. This has been a difficult decision for me but I think it is in the best interest for the individual consumer to determine if a flicker on the screen is watchable or not watchable. Still since every review on the Panasonic 800U and 850U has mentioned a flicker problem or unwatchable flicker problem at 48HZ the list needs to have a warning with a link mentioning the issue. It would be awesome if a future firmware update could some how fix this issue.

If you are a relying on "Pro" reviews for verification of 1080p 24fps then you should be consistent and wait for a "Pro" review which states that the feature is "watchable".

I think the 800u is a great set and hopefully Panasonic does the right thing soon. But until then how it displays 1080p 24fps is not a viable feature for many people.

Kagolu
kagolu is offline  
post #284 of 351 Old 08-15-2008, 02:01 PM
Senior Member
 
berthman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 269
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P24 View Post

**Current in production 1080P/24 LCD flat panel Displays (List 2 of 3)**


Who compiles this list? It was published (the current models list) in February, how can confirmation be made that stats are correct? I'm not questioning the accuracy of the list, but who got hold of them to test?
berthman is offline  
post #285 of 351 Old 08-15-2008, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
HDTV1080P24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 588
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by kagolu View Post

If you are a relying on "Pro" reviews for verification of 1080p 24fps then you should be consistent and wait for a "Pro" review which states that the feature is "watchable".

I think the 800u is a great set and hopefully Panasonic does the right thing soon. But until then how it displays 1080p 24fps is not a viable feature for many people.


You make some good points. I originally removed it from the list since it was reported as unwatchable when the true 48HZ mode is turned on. I received some feed back from some Panasonic users that the display was watchable after several hours in their opinion (Then added back to the list). Technically it does 48HZ but all professional reviews have mentioned a "flicker issue" or "unwatchable flicker" issue. It is noted on the list as unwatchable with a link to the review.
Thanks for your comments, hopefully Panasonic will find a way to correct this issue with a firmware update.
I am still in shock that they would release a product like this. Most consumers will just use it at 60HZ.
HDTV1080P24 is offline  
post #286 of 351 Old 08-15-2008, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
HDTV1080P24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 588
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by berthman View Post

Who compiles this list? It was published (the current models list) in February, how can confirmation be made that stats are correct? I'm not questioning the accuracy of the list, but who got hold of them to test?

I have been working on the list since Jan 2007 and most of the additions are from my research with also help from people in this forum that provide documented links. The links on the list will take you to either a manufactories spec sheet or professional review that mentions the true 1080P/24 feature.
The items on the list were reviewed by Widescreen Review, Ultimate A/V magazine, Home Theater Magazine, and many other reviewers. Other items on the list have not been reviewed but according to the manufactories spec sheet the product has the feature amd has been added to the list. Sometimes professional reviewers make mistakes or get incorrect information from the manufactory. Once and a while a item is removed from the list if the manufactories spec sheet or review was in error. The list in general is very accurate.
If you click on any display on the list it will take you to the review or spec sheet as a reference.
HDTV1080P24 is offline  
post #287 of 351 Old 08-16-2008, 05:26 PM
Member
 
Hiway1999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P24 View Post

This list only includes US models. The models you provided are European or international models. I searched for information on the Philips models you listed but could not find any reviews on how the 1080P/24 feature works. I do not know if the 120HZ Philips flat panels are true 5:5 pulldown. They may or may not bypass the 3:2 pulldown process.

From what I can tell from the manufacturer's link:

(not my third post yet so see next post for the link...)

The source is converted to 60hz then refreshed at 120hz. Sad, they had a nice price point at Costco coming up in a couple days...

Andyone know what the 2ms response time numbers come from and how this particular techbit is computed and the impact it has?
Hiway1999 is offline  
post #288 of 351 Old 08-16-2008, 05:27 PM
Member
 
Hiway1999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
http://www.consumer.philips.com/cons...+52PFL7403D-27

Specifically:

"Picture enhancement Pixel Plus 3 HD , 3/2 - 2/2 motion pull down , 3D Combfilter , Active Control + Light sensor , Dynamic contrast enhancement , Progressive Scan , 120Hz LCD , HD Natural Motion " States 3/2- 2/2 motion pull down...

And:

"Video formats 480i, 60Hz , 480p, 60Hz , 720p, 60Hz , 1080i, 60Hz , 1080p, 60Hz " all 60hz formats...
Hiway1999 is offline  
post #289 of 351 Old 08-16-2008, 05:33 PM
Member
 
Hiway1999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Please sticky this list since this is a very confusing thing to find information on when buying a display.

Thanks.
Hiway1999 is offline  
post #290 of 351 Old 08-16-2008, 09:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CT_Wiebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 6,437
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
HDTV1080P24 -- The new Mitsubishi HC5500 1080p projector is supposed to support 1080p/24 (assumed similar to the HC6000 - 48Hz).

Art (http://www.projectorreviews.com/mits...5500/index.php) did not mention it. The Projector Central review (http://www.projectorcentral.com/mits...500_review.htm) mentioned that it did, but offered no supporting evidence.

I also did not find any mention of 1024p/24 actual performance in the HC5500 thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1040634). The Spec Sheet says it supports 1080p/24 and the owners manual only references 1080p/24 as having a 24Hz vertical frequency (???). It is supposed to be similar to the HC6000 for this feature - but that is "rumor" at this time.

Therefore, at present, I don't consider the HC5500 to have confirmed support of 1080p/24 and at what specific frequency. It is something to keep an eye on.

- Claus {non-Santa model}
CT_Wiebe is offline  
post #291 of 351 Old 08-17-2008, 11:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
CT_Wiebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 6,437
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Here is the only confirmation I've seen, but no frequency info: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=394.

- Claus {non-Santa model}
CT_Wiebe is offline  
post #292 of 351 Old 08-17-2008, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
HDTV1080P24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 588
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD Plasma flat panel August 2008 review link


Scott Wilkinson over at UltimateAVmag.com has written an excellent review on the new Pioneer Elite PR0-111FD. The Pioneer Plasma's still are the best flat panels in terms of picture and sound quality. The built in stereo speakers are excellent compared to other displays. Of course a surround sound system sounds better, but sometimes one may want to do causal TV surfing and not mess around with the surround sound system.

Pioneer displays are the only flat panels on the market that have 72HZ refresh rates for 1080P/24 material. The film quality is excellent at 72HZ refresh rate on Pioneer Plasmas's with a better quality film look compared to 120HZ LCD screens. LCD screens still suffer from some motion blur at 120HZ with some fast moving film images.


1080P/24 feature quote


It bears repeating that all Pioneer TVs have the ability to display 1080p/24 at 72Hz, repeating each frame three times. This avoids 3:2 pulldown altogether and results in much smoother motion on film-based material. I know of no other flat panels with this rare and important feature.


Unique calibration features on the Elite series


Unique to the Elite lineand, presumably, the upcoming Reference monitorsare ISF Day and Night modes, which can be calibrated only from the service menu or by using special software developed by Sencore. These modes let a calibrator lock in the calibration so they can't be messed up by inveterate but unskilled tweakers.


The Pioneer Remote control is not as good as last years models


"Pioneer changed the design of the Kuro remote this year, and it's a step backward for the most part. The buttons are smaller and more uniform in size and shape, which makes them harder to find by feel. It's illuminated, but some of the labels are on the body, so they can't be seen in the dark even with the backlight on.
Like last year, the remote is a universal type that can control up to six devices in addition to the TV. However, the buttons for other devices are now on the main body, not behind a flip-down lid, making the button layout more cluttered. At least it still has dedicated input-selection buttons, though the HDMI buttons are not identified as they are on the PRO-110FD remotethe input buttons are identified only by number.

Harder menu's compared to last year

"This year, there is no button for accessing Home Media Galleryit is accessed from the menu. Speaking of which, the menu system has been slightly redesigned, and like the remote, it's a step backward. Whereas the picture controls were buried fairly deep last year, they are even deeper this year, taking many button pushes to get just about anywhere you want.


Positive picture quality comments for the Pioneer PRO-111FD

However, in the Pure AV Mode with Color Space set to 2, such adjustments proved unnecessarythe primary and secondary color points were as close to the HD standard as any set I have yet reviewed.
Amazingly, the PRO-111FD achieved even an lower black level than the 110FDin fact, the new model's black level was only 25% of the 8G's, reaching the lower limit of my Minolta LS-100 light meter.
As I was taking these measurements, I noticed one odd thing. When switching from a white field or white window to a black field, the black level dropped to literally 0 after maybe 10 seconds, making the TV look like it was turned off. (In a totally dark room such as we have at Grayscale Studio, a black field on the Pioneer can still be seen, except after this strange phenomenon.) I didn't notice this in real-world content, but I thought it worth mentioning.
All of the moving resolution tests on the FPD Benchmark Blu-ray test disc looked excellent, with very little loss of detail. These tests illustrate the superior motion resolution of plasma over LCD. Gradation in the 0-100 ramp showed only slight banding, with a bit more in the 0-25 ramp, and differentiation in the mostly black and mostly white shots was superb.
This was confirmed on Pioneer's own Blu-ray demo disc, which includes lots of mostly black shots as well as bright, saturated colors. The blacks were super-rich, and differentiation in the mostly black photo studio was excellent. The colors of flowers, cars, and skin tones were completely natural, detail in leaves and petals was exquisite, and the contrast in shots of fireworks was stunning.
During this test, I discovered that Pioneer seems to have fixed the bug I found in the PRO-110FD, which behaved unpredictably if the film mode was set to something other than Off when the set received a progressive signal. In the PRO-111FD, all film modes are available all the time, and when the set gets a progressive signal, it doesn't do anything even if one of the modes is engaged.
Despite the few minor imperfections I found, the Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD upholds the Kuro tradition admirably. Black level, detail, and color are second to none. If you insist on the best at any cost, look no further.

Highs
Unbeatable blacks
Excellent shadow detail
Gorgeous color
Stunning detail
Displays 1080p/24 at 72Hz
ISF calibration modes

Lows
Picture controls associated with AV modes, not inputs
Menu controls buried several levels deep
Remote not as good as previous generation
Above-white partially clipped

All quotes taken from the following review link
http://ultimateavmag.com/flatpaneldisplays/808pio111/index.html
HDTV1080P24 is offline  
post #293 of 351 Old 08-18-2008, 01:32 AM
T2k
 
T2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,930
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiway1999 View Post

Please sticky this list since this is a very confusing thing to find information on when buying a display.

Thanks.

Do not go by this list - it lacks plenty of models and this guy lacks basic understandjng of the subject (see his earlier notes about 3:3 vs 2:2 etc.)

It should not be stickied at all, it's only good to confuse the less informed.
It's also full of childish c/p of Pioneer's PR stuff, mind you...
T2k is offline  
post #294 of 351 Old 08-18-2008, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
HDTV1080P24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 588
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by T2k View Post

Do not go by this list - it lacks plenty of models and this guy lacks basic understandjng of the subject (see his earlier notes about 3:3 vs 2:2 etc.)

It should not be stickied at all, it's only good to confuse the less informed.
It's also full of childish c/p of Pioneer's PR stuff, mind you...

Which models does the list lack? I would disagree with you that I lack basic understanding of the subject. This list is full of quotes from professional reviews of just about every brand and model of display that offers the true 1080P/24 feature and not just Pioneer. I can not help it that every professional review from every publication mentions that the Pioneer has the best picture quality do to its excellent black levels, contrast ratio, etc. If you search the thread I have said negative things about the Pioneer 9th generation displays also.
These are fairly negative comments about cost cutting features that were removed with this year’s Pioneer models
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13886234&postcount=210
HDTV1080P24 is offline  
post #295 of 351 Old 08-22-2008, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
HDTV1080P24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 588
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-111FD 50-inch plasma HDTV (October 2008 Sound and Vision Review link)

This new review from Sound and Vision regarding the Pioneer PRO-111FD is a very good review. I did want to mention one small error they made in the review under key features. The 9th generation Kuro's have only one 1 component input, 1 S-Video input and one RF input, the review mentions 2 component inputs by mistake, 2 S-Video inputs by mistake, and a dual ant/cable RF input by mistake. The 8th generation kuro's had more inputs and features like TV guide with cablecard but cost $1,000 more. Of course the 9th generation has a better picture quality which is the most important feature. The Pioneer 9th generation also has 3 composite inputs, the review only mentions 2.

Quotes from Sound and Vision magazine

24p input mode with 3:3 pulldown (72-Hz display)

Deeper blacks and a host of refinements make this year's Elite Kuro even better than its award-winning predecessor


You'd expect a 50-inch plasma TV that sells for five grand to be packed with bells and whistles, and the PRO-111FD doesn't disappoint. Its Optimum picture mode uses internal and external sensors to make automatic picture adjustments including brightness, contrast, color, and even color temperature based on ambient light conditions in your room.

Moving from the interiors of Mad Men to the outer space of 2001: A Space Odyssey so I could check out the Pioneer's handling of really deep blacks, I noticed that the dark star field that the Jupiter Mission ship cruises through was only the faintly lighter than the TV's black bezel. This made the image look both seamless and endlessly deep even more so than on the PRO-110FD, which was named S&V's Product of the Year for 2007.

After testing last year's PRO-110FD Kuro set, I didn't think a plasma TV could get any better. I was wrong. The PRO-111FD delivers even deeper blacks, and its natural-looking color, clean video processing, and powerful noise reduction contribute to a picture that's nothing short of breathtaking.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hdtvs/2949/pioneer-elite-kuro-pro-111fd-50-inch-plasma-hdtv.html
HDTV1080P24 is offline  
post #296 of 351 Old 08-25-2008, 04:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
42041's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 3,289
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 54
I don't know if you count reviews for European models of TVs, but here's a review that says the UK cousin of the V4100 does 24p:
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-...0080822127.htm
42041 is offline  
post #297 of 351 Old 08-26-2008, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
HDTV1080P24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 588
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

I don't know if you count reviews for European models of TVs, but here's a review that says the UK cousin of the V4100 does 24p:
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-...0080822127.htm

Thanks for the information. This list only includes US or North American models since I do not have the resources or time to make a world wide list. It is great to see European consumers are starting to have a bigger selection of 1080P/24 display to choose from.
From the review it mentions that the display does true 1080P/24. Quote Accepts 1080p/24 video signal; no telecine judder
HDTV1080P24 is offline  
post #298 of 351 Old 08-28-2008, 09:19 PM
Senior Member
 
mdanderson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Garland,Tx.
Posts: 481
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 35
I know that my Sony KDS 60A2000 is not on the list of 1080p/24 displays, but I have read where it will accept 1080p at 60fps. If I get a Blu-ray player, will I be able to watch a Blu-ray disc in 1080p? Will I need to get a player that lets you select 1080p/24 or 60? Thanks.

Matt

Matt
mdanderson is offline  
post #299 of 351 Old 08-29-2008, 09:34 AM
Advanced Member
 
Terminader's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: California
Posts: 628
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My Vizio GV52FHD 1080p is able to successfully play The Bucket List at 1080p from DIRECTV's VOD.
Terminader is offline  
post #300 of 351 Old 08-29-2008, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
HDTV1080P24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 588
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdanderson View Post

I know that my Sony KDS 60A2000 is not on the list of 1080p/24 displays, but I have read where it will accept 1080p at 60fps. If I get a Blu-ray player, will I be able to watch a Blu-ray disc in 1080p? Will I need to get a player that lets you select 1080p/24 or 60? Thanks.

Matt

Yes your KDSA2000 will only accept 1080P at 60HZ and not 24HZ and display it on the screen at 60HZ. Every single BLU-RAY player every made will output 1080P 60HZ. Some of the very old first generation BLU-RAY players do not have a menu option for 1080P/24 since they do not support it. Every single BLU-RAY player made since late 2007 will support both 1080P/60 and 1080P/24. Basically all second generation and beyond BLU-RAY players support 1080P/24.
1080P 60HZ is true 1080P quality and it still looks very good on a 60HZ 1080P display. The 1080P/24 option just eliminates the 3:2 pulldown judder and has more of a film quality look compared to 60HZ video.
HDTV1080P24 is offline  
Reply Blu-ray Players

Tags
Panasonic Viera Th 50pz800u 50 Inch 1080p Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic Viera Th 58pz850u 58 Inch 1080p Plasma Hdtv
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off