The Oppo Blu-ray player anticipation thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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Old 08-20-2008, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonk View Post

Therein lies the real quandary: do they make a "dedicated" player (no DVD-A, no SACD, nothing exceptional for DVD scaling/deinterlacing) and try to capture the "price tag" market by undercutting players like the BD30 or the PS3, or do they make a player with a more distinctive feature set (DVD-A, SACD, and whatever other features we've seen from them before) and likely end up at a higher price tag that puts them in the same price range as something like the BD50?

In the words of a pretty competent reviewer , "OPPO Digital made their name by delivering digital upscaling video performance and offering first-rate customer support. Features like region-free playback, DVD-Audio and SACD support, PAL support, and support for an assortment of audio and video file formats have also become trademarks that have helped create a loyal customer base..."

They've done this while managing to keep their prices very reasonable for the quality offered, but they didn't carve their niche by selling cheap players, per se. There is no reason for them to change their business model when they introduce a Blu-ray player. I'd be astonished to see them do anything except follow the second option.

Maybe two models would be feasible, but it's hard to win the lowest-price-on-the-market game, especially for a relatively small company. More likely they will focus on a version that builds on with their brand tradition, at least until the Blu-ray market grows enough to warrant a second model.
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Old 08-20-2008, 04:35 PM
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Macfan, I've felt much the same way as you - it may be in their best interest to do something that stands out, since nothing they do will be able to compete in total sales volume with the likes of Panasonic, Samsung, or Sony. That also matches what they've done in the past (even the 980H is "expensive" for a DVD player these days). But this thread proves that there will be people disappointed with whatever they do.

I swear that I've read that review somewhere...

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Old 08-20-2008, 05:16 PM
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Just because they might make a player without all the "bells and whistles", doesn't mean it has to compete with the "low end el cheapo" players.
Lets look at customer service and support. Most companies now-a-days are fluctuating between a 2 and 6 out of 10... pretty much about a 4, which of course sucks. Oppo is about an 11 out of 10 (<-yes, it's that good). Then there's the warranty that ties in with the support. What is it now?... 2 years? How many products give you FULL warranty support for 2 years?... parts AND labor.
Then there is the quality and reliability of the product. This is Oppo we're talking about. They don't skimp on parts and build quality. So that part scores high on the scale too.

Now take that whole scenario and put it into a basic 2.0 profile Blu-ray player. No SACD/DVDA or any of the other stuff. Internal decoders is a confusing feature. I'd be fine with bitstream only, but there are too many people still without hdmi 1.3 receivers. So you'd probaly have to have that in there. Standard SD dvd playback with NO upscaling capability. (<-that's right, I said it...) 480p and 480i via hdmi and component.
Can they do it for $300?... I'll but it right now!... and set it atop my 983.
Full boat flagship player for $500 for those that want everything in ONE player. If they already have a 983, they can sell it and get the new flagship.

Oh, and BTW, does everyone else not realize what is going to happen to the resale value of the 983 when this supposed new flagship player comes out? Can you say $99 BuyItNow special?

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Old 08-20-2008, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonk View Post

But this thread proves that there will be people disappointed with whatever they do.

Well, if it doesn't play SACDs, HD-DVDs, Laserdiscs and ViewMaster Reels (NTSC and PAL), I ain't buying it.
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Old 08-20-2008, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by narkspud View Post

Well, if it doesn't play SACDs, HD-DVDs, Laserdiscs and ViewMaster Reels (NTSC and PAL), I ain't buying it.

Will it core a apple?
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Old 08-20-2008, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by narkspud View Post

Well, if it doesn't play SACDs, HD-DVDs, Laserdiscs and ViewMaster Reels (NTSC and PAL), I ain't buying it.

I'm holding out for Beta and 8-track support myself, plus maybe 45rpm records...

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Old 08-20-2008, 08:41 PM
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What about reel-to-reel? I know it'd take up a lot of space in your rack, but I think it'd be worth it... just to make it a TRUE universal player.

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Old 08-20-2008, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

What about reel-to-reel? I know it'd take up a lot of space in your rack, but I think it'd be worth it... just to make it a TRUE universal player.

If it's going to take up a lot of space, then it ought to be able to play those 16-inch radio transcription records as well.

Not to mention cylinders, wire recordings, DCCs and Minidiscs, SelectaVision discs, and - heck, let's go for the gusto - Show 'n' Tell Picturesound strips, Red Raven Movie Records, and those little yellow hand-cranked Fisher-Price cartridges with the Disney cartoons in them.

That's the BluRay player I'm holding out for. Shouldn't be too tough for Oppo.

I'm in no hurry for the wire recordings, BTW, so they can just put that into a firmware update.
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

...
Oh, and BTW, does everyone else not realize what is going to happen to the resale value of the 983 when this supposed new flagship player comes out? Can you say $99 BuyItNow special?

I right with you on the notion that a Blue-Ray player that doesn't meet the 983s upscaling (or hardly upscales SD at all) without all the extra formats would be perfect. I would highly appreciate the internal audio decoder / 7.1 analog audio outputs though for the Blue-Ray spiffy sound tracks as my AVR doesn't even have HDMI at all (and that's the only fault I have with it so I rather not replace it).

Plus I already own a 983 of course. I think a more complimentary approach to the 983 than a replace the 983 makes alot more sense price point wise and product line wise as I'm gathering the 983 is selling well and is a new product itself.
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Old 08-21-2008, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Beaker1024 View Post

I right with you on the notion that a Blue-Ray player that doesn't meet the 983s upscaling (or hardly upscales SD at all) without all the extra formats would be perfect.

Then why wouldn't you just go ahead and buy a BD-50?
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Old 08-21-2008, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narkspud View Post

Then why wouldn't you just go ahead and buy a BD-50?

Price, product and customer support, reliability, warranty.

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Old 08-21-2008, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfan424 View Post

In the words of a pretty competent reviewer , "OPPO Digital made their name by delivering digital upscaling video performance and offering first-rate customer support. Features like region-free playback, DVD-Audio and SACD support, PAL support, and support for an assortment of audio and video file formats have also become trademarks that have helped create a loyal customer base..."

They've done this while managing to keep their prices very reasonable for the quality offered, but they didn't carve their niche by selling cheap players, per se. There is no reason for them to change their business model when they introduce a Blu-ray player. I'd be astonished to see them do anything except follow the second option.

Maybe two models would be feasible, but it's hard to win the lowest-price-on-the-market game, especially for a relatively small company. More likely they will focus on a version that builds on with their brand tradition, at least until the Blu-ray market grows enough to warrant a second model.

They may endup being the first to build a Blu-Ray with SACD/DVD-A support...
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Old 08-21-2008, 01:09 PM
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With the current Denon2500/3800 BR players starting at $998. Without the other features even the Oppo 983H provides. If they come in around $600 there is going to be a blood bath for Denon & other CE companies. They just have to build onto the 983H-2 platform.
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Old 08-21-2008, 02:30 PM
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A 983 based Blu-ray could easily become the kind of cult favorite the much beloved Toshiba HD-XA2 has been. Blu-ray fans have been longing for something like that.

Bringing it to market for $600 might be a huge challenge, though.
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Old 08-21-2008, 03:25 PM
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It would seem to make sense for them to offer two options.

Considering their existing (Happy) customer base, a pretty much BR only model with basic SD playback makes sense. Then anyone like myself with a handy dandy Oppo they are already using to output 480i (or other with the 9xx) up-scaling can just buy the "add-on" sort to speak.

This player should and I imagine it would include all the required BD options and at a very high quality if not once again reference levels we are used to from them.

The second would basically incorporate the same BR features as well as the 983 features or very similar. I don't suppose we could slip them a happily pill and trick them into including HD-DVD support as well hahaa.

Once either of these are released I buy one and farm out my PS3. Don't get me wrong, the PS3 is a great BR player, but I really don't use it for gaming and I would opt for the Oppo in a second for better integration and most likely performance. I have nieces and nephews who can fight over the PS3.

If the fully loaded version is within a couple hundred smackers of the BR (mostly) model then I will get that and move my current Oppo to a secondary location. If its way more, then it simply get the BR model.

It was only after hearing Oppo's plans firming up and the rough time lines that I decided to go ahead and buy the PS3 as a stop gap in the first place.

Cheers,

Richard
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:05 PM
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From a consumer's point of view, the more options they provide the better, although the "stripped" version would seem to offer minimal advantage over what Panasonic, Sony, Samsung, et al already offer.

However, from an engineering, production, inventory, and support viewpoint, introducing more than one model from the beginning may be too much to ask of a small company. Blu-ray still has very weak acceptance in the market at large, so volume is likely to be be low, and even producing one version could be considered something of a risk from Oppo's perspective.

Of course, I've never understood how Oppo managed to juggle three standard DVD models, so I may be way too conservative about this. I hope so.
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Old 08-22-2008, 05:46 AM
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To be honest, I'd be quite happy if Oppo just put out a high quality simple player- a 1.1 profile that is region free for DVDs and (hopefully) region free for BD as well.
J
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Old 08-22-2008, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big J View Post

To be honest, I'd be quite happy if Oppo just put out a high quality simple player- a 1.1 profile that is region free for DVDs and (hopefully) region free for BD as well.
J

I believe they can't make a BD player that is region free due to the contract they have to sign for the licence. What I read was that contrary to the DVD licence, BD clearly stipulate that you can't make a region free player.
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Old 08-22-2008, 06:40 AM
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I believe they can't make a BD player that is region free due to the contract they have to sign for the licence. What I read was that contrary to the DVD licence, BD clearly stipulate that you can't make a region free player.

That is my understanding also. The BDA is strict about this.

There is at least one loophole: region-free players are allowed for countries where region coding is illegal. I believe AU and NZ have made some moves along that line.

-Bill
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Old 08-22-2008, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Nosferax View Post

I believe they can't make a BD player that is region free due to the contract they have to sign for the licence. What I read was that contrary to the DVD licence, BD clearly stipulate that you can't make a region free player.

I suspected as much. That is unfortunate, considering the catalog titles being released in Europe (region B locked) but not here.
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Old 08-22-2008, 09:04 AM
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While the player aren't region free, nobody is forced to region code their disk. We may still get asian region free release of those titles like we do on DVD.
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Old 08-22-2008, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Nosferax View Post

While the player aren't region free, nobody is forced to region code their disk. We may still get asian region free release of those titles like we do on DVD.

Actually, the studios are pretty lax at this point at least with region coding of Blu-ray discs. According to this source in a post back on Feb. 23, 2008:
http://www.blu-raystats.com/NewsLog/...ay-statistics/

Quote:


Today we made a large Region Code update to the main database. Now we have Region code information for almost 90% of the US domestic releases. With any luck we will manage to keep it somewhat maintained at this level.

Interestingly enough we get a better indication of the percentages for Region Coding. We see that roughly 2/3 of the titles are coded for all regions, though the different studios have different approaches to Region Codes.

And modified region free BD players are pretty commonly available as I just found out from a Google search.

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Old 08-22-2008, 09:42 AM
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What players can be modified to do playback of all BR discs?

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Old 08-22-2008, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

What players can be modified to do playback of all BR discs?

Well, just for starters, look here http://www.planetomni.com/Prod_BLURAY.shtml

Two Sonys, a Samsung, a Panasonic and a Pioneer.

Dana

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Old 08-22-2008, 09:48 AM
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thanks Dana

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Old 08-22-2008, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbonbi View Post

Actually, the studios are pretty lax at this point at least with region coding of Blu-ray discs. According to this source in a post back on Feb. 23, 2008:
http://www.blu-raystats.com/NewsLog/...ay-statistics/



And modified region free BD players are pretty commonly available as I just found out from a Google search.

Dana

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

What players can be modified to do playback of all BR discs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drbonbi View Post

Well, just for starters, look here http://www.planetomni.com/Prod_BLURAY.shtml

Two Sonys, a Samsung, a Panasonic and a Pioneer.

Dana


http://www.jvbdigital.nl/jvb.asp?cur...hstring=BluRay
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Of course their DIY methods do not include any of my Samsung players .

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Old 08-22-2008, 09:58 AM
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From another page on the same site http://www.planetomni.com/BLURAY_SON...s300_DTL.shtml

Quote:


But please note: If you out a BLU-RAY movie via the HMDI cable to an HMDI TV of any standard (PAL, NTSC, SECAM etc.) you will see a perfect picture as BLU-RAY and HDMI have done away with the traditional Video Standards like PAL, NTSC etc. If you have a BLU-RAY region C disc it will play on all BLU-RAY players worldwide as there is no REGION C lock on them. So any BLU-RAY region free for regions A and B or any BLU-RAY player that is not multiregion will play all REGION C BLU-RAY discs on any TV with HDMI input. Miracle, the age of having to deal with non-compatible video standards has ended. Only REGIONS A and B are still incompatible and with a MULTIREGION (AKA MULTI-REGION, MULTI REGION etc.) player one can view any and ALL Blu-Ray movies on any TV on earth with HDMI.

To be confusing however please note: If your TV does not have an HDMI input then you will still be stuck needing a PAL-NTSC TV or a video standards converter to view BLU-RAY movies via the RCA or S-VIDEO video output.

3 regions (also called locales or zones) have been defined, and each one is assigned a number. Players and discs are often identified by their region number superimposed on a world globe. If a disc plays in more than one region it will have more than one number on the globe.

Region A: North America, Central America, South America, Japan, North Korea, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Southeast Asia

Region B: Europe, Greenland, French territories, Middle East, Africa, Australia and New Zealand

Region C: Pakistan, India, Mainland China, Russia, Central and South Asia

Dana

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Old 08-22-2008, 11:01 AM
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I like this part:
Quote:


Miracle, the age of having to deal with non-compatible video standards has ended. Only REGIONS A and B are still incompatible

J
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Old 08-22-2008, 11:34 AM
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What about the standard-def stuff on Blu-Ray discs? I know the HD-DVD players can't do SD PAL regardless of region coding. Are you saying the Blu-Ray players can?
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Old 08-22-2008, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narkspud View Post

What about the standard-def stuff on Blu-Ray discs? I know the HD-DVD players can't do SD PAL regardless of region coding. Are you saying the Blu-Ray players can?

If you're asking can domestic Blu-ray players handle SD DVDs other than Region 1, the answer is no.

Closer review of the players offered on the site above http://www.planetomni.com/Prod_BLURAY.shtml leads me to think that they are not dealer-modified, but are factory models produced as multi-region players perhaps for overseas markets. For instance, the Panasonic takes 220 volts. Apparently, they are capable of playing multi-region SDs, too.

Note that the price tags are considerably higher than domestic equivalents. Maybe this is the market niche in which OPPO's Blu-ray player can differentiate itself.

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