The Oppo Blu-ray player anticipation thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 607 Old 03-21-2008, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

My two cents, with the release of the $399 Oppo 983H universal player with Anchor Bay scaling/deinterlacing, and the fact that numerous new A/V receivers that have their own video processors, wouldn't you think that Oppo might want to just make a decent Blu-Ray player at first without sophisticated SD upconversion as their first product? That way they could provide the Blu-Ray equivalent of the popular Oppo 980H to compete in the market at a reasonable price.

I would assume they would leverage their 983 experience with Anchor Bay and use the 2010 chip. Dont know if it is an FPGA with cost impacts or an ASIC though...

http://www.anchorbaytech.com/product...rs/abt2010.php
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post #182 of 607 Old 03-21-2008, 07:27 PM
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I was going to order a 980H from Oppo (amazon $170.00 + free shipping) for DVD only. I want to send 480i via HDMI directly to the SIM2 C3X1080 projector (which has great videoprocessing). I think this will be better than sending the C3X1080 the PS3 output of 480p (the lowest possible). The de-interlacing should be better in the C3X1080.

I talked to tech support at OPPO today: only the 980H DVD player is capable of 480i output over HDMI. He said that all future players including the Blu Ray player will have integrated videoprocessors so that 480i output will not be possible. I don't understand... I thought there were a lot of Blu Ray players that allow you to output the native 480i of DVD via HDMI?? I don't see why this can't be an option. I'm dissapointed that only the 980H DVD player is capable of 480i over HDMI...

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post #183 of 607 Old 03-21-2008, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

I still say... A BR transport only / super simple player = $150... released at end of summer.
Then got to work on the super duper universal player. Out just in time for everyone to blow their tax retun money on it .

I'd be happy with a $299 BD/SD/DVD-AUDIO/SACD transport only. Just HDMI out. No more than $299.

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post #184 of 607 Old 03-21-2008, 07:38 PM
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I'd like to see a BEEFY, heavy chassis transport though. I wish they would come out with a few models. I'd like Oppo to stand for quality, not just inexpensive. Personally I'd love a $1000.00 transport with HDMI out only or whatever... Just put some money into the chassis and parts that are there....
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post #185 of 607 Old 03-21-2008, 07:49 PM
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I think I am the only one on the planet who just wants a BR transport... bitstreaming only, basic features like zoom, play, pause, ff, rewind, ect..., no decoders, I mean heck, make 1080p only while we're at it.
Does everyone really want to pay hundreds of extra dollars for features that you don't need? Oh wait, you'd have one player instead of two... woopie .
Sony and friends can't even get THEIR players to work properly after 2-3 YEARS of effort. How long do you think it will take Oppo to get all that "gingerbread" into one player and everything to work right? If they try to do that, then I have a feeling this "wished for super duper universal BR player" may not be here for a year and a half .

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post #186 of 607 Old 03-21-2008, 07:53 PM
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Actually, I'm with you... that is why I'm buying the Oppo 980H, so I can get 480i over HDMI... So yea, I guess I'm with you and would like a heavy-duty Blu Ray only transport... I'd like to see various models, one of which would be a simple, well-done, beefy Blu Ray only transport...
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post #187 of 607 Old 03-21-2008, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

I think I am the only one on the planet who just wants a BR transport... bitstreaming only, basic features like zoom, play, pause, ff, rewind, ect..., no decoders, I mean heck, make 1080p only while we're at it.

You're not alone. I second that notion 100%. I think they'd be wise to do two models (simple BR transport first, super-universal later).

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post #188 of 607 Old 03-22-2008, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

I'd like to see a BEEFY, heavy chassis transport though.

Why? While there is sound engineering reason to have a solid chassis with an analog LP turntable, there is none with DVD technology. Aside from giving the perception of better quality/performance, a heavy chassis doesn't make a digital "1" or "0" better. Its either ON or OFF - nowhere in between. Whatever you've heard is just another marketing ploy to make you hand over more sheckles.

Some players merely put a plate of steel on the bottom to improve its "feel". Even the players that really are built like a tank, still suspend the disk on fragile bearings, and employ the same piezo-actuated laser tracking scheme to read the digital stream from imperfect disks that wobble on those bearings. Player performance is way more at the mercy of the feather-weight tracking scheme than the chassis.

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post #189 of 607 Old 03-22-2008, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by gary cornell View Post

There was a dvd shootout about 5 years ago and the Camelot Roundtable was the only model tested to have 0 flaws. Not looking to knock Oppo but i think the Camelot was 1st. FWIW, i rec'd word from Oppo yesterday that the blu-ray model is still in development and would not be out before 2009 at the earliest.

I just googled that shootout. FWIW no Oppo's were included in the tests.
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post #190 of 607 Old 03-22-2008, 12:27 AM
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I owned the first Blu Ray player from Samsung... that is reason enough to want a sturdy chassis. Look, I prefer a heavy duty chassis. Yes, it is a shame that the actual player itself is the same ol' same 'ol OEM crap player everyone else uses... Even the $17,000.00 Goldmund Blu Ray player that was just released... Nonetheless, I'll take every bit of quality and mechanical tweak that can be provided... Don't hand me a piece of tin foil wrapped around a plastic drive...
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post #191 of 607 Old 03-22-2008, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSB View Post

You're not alone. I second that notion 100%. I think they'd be wise to do two models (simple BR transport first, super-universal later).

Gary

What choices would a vendor have in producing such a machine? (This is not at all rhetorical; I would really like to know)

There is a lot of craft in producing SD-DVD players because of the 480i source. But if you want to produce 1080p60 or 1080p24 from 1080p24 Blu-Ray source, how many options are there for tweaking? A superior player would do what? Deinterlacing and scaling are no longer issues, right?

What chip options are there and are any superior to the others?

I am focusing on picture quality here, being more or less indifferent to audio. The advanced profile interactivity and connectivity sound like tripe to me; I want just the film, the whole film, and nothing but the film.

-Bill


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post #192 of 607 Old 03-22-2008, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSB View Post

Why? While there is sound engineering reason to have a solid chassis with an analog LP turntable, there is none with DVD technology.

Unless you want to use it to play redbook audio and care about the output.
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post #193 of 607 Old 03-22-2008, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by YellowLight View Post

Unless you want to use it to play redbook audio and care about the output.

I care about redbook CD audio output VERY much. However, considering that CD playback uses exactly the same loading, tracking and decoding mechanism as DVD, can you give me any solid engineering reason why a heavy chassis is better?

Gary
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post #194 of 607 Old 03-22-2008, 04:02 PM
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I like a chassis with more mass and thicker metal for more panel rigidity (moe). This protects the contents and circuit boards a little better IMO. I also like it when they use copper, an outboard power supply, and better Faraday shielding. For the exact opposite of this, see the first Blu Ray player ever made, the first Samsung.

And although not needed, I'd still prefer better feet with vibrational isolation. There are lots of fine details that I'd like companies to pay attention to... Then again, if you want a piece of tin foil for a chassis and generic design, see the BDP-1000, the original Samsung Blu Ray player...
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post #195 of 607 Old 03-22-2008, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

What choices would a vendor have in producing such a machine? (This is not at all rhetorical; I would really like to know)

There is a lot of craft in producing SD-DVD players because of the 480i source. But if you want to produce 1080p60 or 1080p24 from 1080p24 Blu-Ray source, how many options are there for tweaking? A superior player would do what? Deinterlacing and scaling are no longer issues, right?

What chip options are there and are any superior to the others?

I am focusing on picture quality here, being more or less indifferent to audio. The advanced profile interactivity and connectivity sound like tripe to me; I want just the film, the whole film, and nothing but the film.

-Bill

I agree with you 100% too! What I meant by the "super-universal" player, was 983-style DVD and multi-format support included with the BR support. But I'd like to see a basic 1080p BR-only transport as well.

Gary
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post #196 of 607 Old 03-22-2008, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

I like a chassis with more mass and thicker metal for more panel rigidity (moe). This protects the contents and circuit boards a little better IMO. I also like it when they use copper, an outboard power supply, and better Faraday shielding. For the exact opposite of this, see the first Blu Ray player ever made, the first Samsung.

And although not needed, I'd still prefer better feet with vibrational isolation. There are lots of fine details that I'd like companies to pay attention to... Then again, if you want a piece of tin foil for a chassis and generic design, see the BDP-1000, the original Samsung Blu Ray player...

OK, for mechanical reasons, and not A/V performance reasons, I can understand. I also agree with you on Faraday shielding and properly isolated power supplies.

Gary
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post #197 of 607 Old 03-23-2008, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

I like a chassis with more mass and thicker metal for more panel rigidity (moe). This protects the contents and circuit boards a little better IMO.

Why... what are you going to do with it? Use it as a foot stool? It is possible to over engineer a product.

Boy do I have some Monster cables for you to buy!
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post #198 of 607 Old 03-23-2008, 09:11 AM
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Please, this has nothing to do with cables and Monster cables. How stupid... Denon did a good job with their 2500 and 3800 Blu Ray players.

Oppo is a great company, I hope they make a few models...
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post #199 of 607 Old 03-24-2008, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSB View Post

I care about redbook CD audio output VERY much. However, considering that CD playback uses exactly the same loading, tracking and decoding mechanism as DVD, can you give me any solid engineering reason why a heavy chassis is better?

Gary

A heavier more rigid chassis deals with vibration better. This also keeps the player from having to use error correction as much and in turn leads to longer life on the servo mechanism. It also makes it worthwhile to use a higher grade of drive(more metal less plastic). Something more to be kept than thrown away. A good example would to look at cd units for broadcast use. A radio station can't afford a lot of down time so the units are heavily built and reliable. A good mechanism on a heavy chassis stays aligned longer. There are also a number of high end audio makers that build CD only units and the inside are quite different than DVD players.

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post #200 of 607 Old 03-24-2008, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

Please, this has nothing to do with cables and Monster cables. How stupid... Denon did a good job with their 2500 and 3800 Blu Ray players.

Oppo is a great company, I hope they make a few models...

Yes Denon has. If one looks under the lid on their machines you can see how well they are built. I expect when Onkyo gets it's Blu machine out it will also be impressive.

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post #201 of 607 Old 03-24-2008, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by tenthplanet View Post

Yes Denon has. If one looks under the lid on their machines you can see how well they are built. I expect when Onkyo gets it's Blu machine out it will also be impressive.

That would be nice. Later this year, $400 should buy a model with BD 2.0 and solid construction. Oppo's 930H pricing leads me to believe I will be looking elsewhere. I hope I am wrong though.

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post #202 of 607 Old 03-24-2008, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ToddUGA View Post

If they ever make a unit that combines everything the 983 has with profile 2.0 Blu-ray playback, then I'll break out the credit card that very day and make a purchase.

+1


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post #203 of 607 Old 03-24-2008, 05:58 AM
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I'm late chiming in here, but I agree with previous statements about transports.
In a grab to add new features to existing product lines we are starting to see advanced video processing pop up all over our video chain...DVD's, receivers, displays - logos from VRS, to VXP, HQV.... At some point only one of these is going to be used and the rest are going to be passive.
I'd love a Blu-ray transport as well. I currently, like those who posted above, use the 980H to give me 480i to my Lumagen Radiance...but I'd love to have one solution. It was very disapointing for me to read the post about future players not being able to offer this feature. I hope that this proves to be untrue. I had been hoping for a single box solution. Give me something that just reads discs to I can begin "removing" equipment from my set-up vs adding.
Oh well...hopefully if we make enough noise we'll begin seeing true transport solutions in the future.


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post #204 of 607 Old 03-24-2008, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by cadbury8 View Post

Why is everyone so fixed on having just one player? does it take up to much room or something having two players? i hear so many saying the same type of thing. every player must play cds, dvds (+/-/r/rw etc), sacd, dvd-a, blu and everything else i have forgotten about.



why cant people be happy to have two players? one for dvd and one for blu? its only taking up another 4 inches of height.

i just dont get it.

Take it the other way. Why don't you have a dedicated DVD player, plus a dedicated SACD player, plus a dedicated DVD-A player, plus a dedicated MP3 player (not dropping in you iPod), plus a dedicated CD player?

What a pain!

Ultimately, I want a single, solid performing player because I see no reason why they can't get it right. For the price of a decent BR player I expect solid, SD performance.

I can't see the benefit of having two players to the point of people saying they don't care if their BR player underperforms wtih SD DVD.

(moot comparison, but would you buy (or have purchased) a SACD or DVD-A player if regular CDs sounded bad on it?)


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post #205 of 607 Old 03-24-2008, 06:42 AM
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Since any Oppo BD player probably won't come to market before 2009 (implied by the Oppo VP's statement in the Engadget article and as indicated by Oppo rep. to Gary Cornwell in Post #175 earlier in this thread), perhaps the title of this thread should be changed since any Oppo BD player surely will not be the 'next' one coming to market.

Also Oppo produces DVD scaling players that offer great performance for the money. However with today's pricing for DVD playres in general the current Oppo products certainly don't fall into the 'low cost' category (those $35 to $75 scaling DVD players from several well known companies). Therefore, I wouldn't expect Oppo to produce a low cost BD at the price of the Funai manufactured units. Rather I would hope they would produce a BD player with the performance of today's top-of-line models (such as those from Denon, Marantz, Pioneer Elite, etc.) but perhaps at a price similar to a mainstream model from Sony, Panasonic, etc.

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post #206 of 607 Old 03-24-2008, 10:51 AM
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All the what-if stuff is great to think about, but if you need a blu-ray player now, you're kinda screwed because there's only a couple out there that don't require serious compromise. Sony is supposed to come out with the new 350 in summer which is supposed to decode and transmit via bitstream both trueHD and DTS-MA for about $400.

I too wish they would just make transports. What's the point of having high end pre/pros and receivers decoding all this stuff if the players doing it? I love the oppo stuff, but we won't be seeing a player from them for some time.
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post #207 of 607 Old 03-24-2008, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweakophyte View Post

Take it the other way. Why don't you have a dedicated DVD player, plus a dedicated SACD player, plus a dedicated DVD-A player, plus a dedicated MP3 player (not dropping in you iPod), plus a dedicated CD player?

What a pain!

Ultimately, I want a single, solid performing player because I see no reason why they can't get it right. For the price of a decent BR player I expect solid, SD performance.

I can't see the benefit of having two players to the point of people saying they don't care if their BR player underperforms wtih SD DVD.

(moot comparison, but would you buy (or have purchased) a SACD or DVD-A player if regular CDs sounded bad on it?)

I don't think they've ever made a dedicated DVD-A player, its really a DVD player w/multi-channel analog inputs. There may have been some SACD only players made (never seen one though) but otherwise all SACD players play CD's. The difference is CD/SACD is audio only and the players are built with analog output in mind and they typically excel in that regard. DVD players are now sold with digital out and upscaling etc. in mind, the analog output is less regarded. The new BD players are all going to be based primarily on HDMI digital output with analog output being included only as a necessary backward compatibility feature.
I have a dedicated DVD w/ DVD-A player and a dedicated CD/SACD player. If I get a BD player, its doubtful any will play DVD-A or SACD-(besides the PS3 right?). So your going to have to have multiple players if you want those formats. CD/SACD is fundamentally different from a DVD or DVD-A and that is quite different than BD.
The thing about a BD player is it has to use a different laser to read DVD/CD than BD. If you look at players like the Oppo, it is quite small and not something that takes up to much space compared to older tape decks & turntables so the space taken up by CD, DVD & BD players is much less than before.
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post #208 of 607 Old 03-24-2008, 12:24 PM
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I'd love a Blu-ray transport as well. I currently, like those who posted above, use the 980H to give me 480i to my Lumagen Radiance...but I'd love to have one solution. It was very disapointing for me to read the post about future players not being able to offer this feature. I hope that this proves to be untrue. I had been hoping for a single box solution.

Agreed.

I don't understand how they could eliminate 480i output over HDMI on all players but the 980H I would have bought the 983 for future flexibility had it offered 480i over HDMI... I just don't understand why we can't have that option
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post #209 of 607 Old 03-24-2008, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

Agreed.

I don't understand how they could eliminate 480i output over HDMI on all players but the 980H I would have bought the 983 for future flexibility had it offered 480i over HDMI... I just don't understand why we can't have that option

Oppo says:

Quote:


Due to the insertion of the ABT video processor chip, 480i/576i over HDMI
is not possible on the DV-983H. 480i/576i over HDMI requires pixel
repetition and double clocking. This is not possible because the output
from the decoder chip is not pixel repeated.

The issue is that the Mediatek decoder does not supply the signal that the
Silicon Image HDMI transmitter chip requires. ABT102 requires raw
480i/576i to do proper de-interlacing, while SiI9030 requires
double-clocked 480i/576i to put it over the HDMI cable.

If you want 480i over HDMI there is no point in paying for ABT deinterlacing and scaling. The 980 will give you the same performance at less cost.

-Bill


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wmcclain is offline  
post #210 of 607 Old 03-24-2008, 01:31 PM
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Thank-you for the answer, much appreciated.

However, I wish a solution for 480i output over HDMI could be provided. Same with the future Blu Ray player. I am almost certain that Denon, Pioneer, Panny, and a few other Blu ray players can output 480i over HDMI.

Although I understand your point about not needing the 983 over the 980, I would have bought the 983 so that I could use in the future it other rooms with HDTV's that do not have scalers. Really wish they could make 480i over HDMI happen in future products.
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