PS3 vs BD50 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 170 Old 02-24-2008, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Not in every way by a long shot I have allready posted in this thread the positives and negatives of both machines being that I own both. The PS3 and BD30 both have advantages and disadvantages compared to one another. To sum it up the BD30 has 3 advantages over the PS3...analog out, DTS-MA, not as loud. The PS3 is a faster loader, smoother menu navigation, more reposive remote commands, better disc navigation, better build quality, will be 2.0 with a FW update, less money (if you get the $100 credit by getting a sony card from sonystyle.com), not to mention all the non BR features the PS3 has which I will not list. PQ at 1080/24p is identical between the 2 on my setup (after doing an extensive A/B comparison).

Both great machines and which one you go with just depends on your needs/wants as both have advantages/disadvantages compared to one another.

Edit: One more advantage of the PS3 is SD-DVD upconversion.

Here's one more ding on the BD30. The LFE issues. One more reason why I didn't buy it.

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post #92 of 170 Old 02-24-2008, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by seggers View Post

Here's one more ding on the BD30. The LFE issues. One more reason why I didn't buy it.

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The LFE issue has been fixed and the FW to fix it will be out very soon. There is a thread in this blu-ray forum discussing it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=998399

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post #93 of 170 Old 02-24-2008, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Burke View Post

One of the big differences between them is that the PS3 can be used for gaming. This is an advantage or a disadvantage depending on your requirements. For us, it is a huge disadvantage, in fact, a deal-breaker. We recently sold the PS3 primarily for this reason.

It is not enough to say "dont buy any games" or "password disable it". It is like being on a diet and having a big cheese cake in the fridge.

I think the avs crowd in general has no problems with the gaming aspect, but I suspect that may not be the case once BR becomes more main-stream.

If you truly lack self dicipline to this extreme degree then I agree that a standalone is what you should get. I have owned the PS3 for about 6 months and have put in a grand total of about 10 hours of gaming on it with the primary use being BR.

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post #94 of 170 Old 02-24-2008, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by rabident View Post

Does the PS3 have any advantages while playing movies?

i.e. the PS3 has frame advance, FF with audio, large buffers to minimize skips from scratches, etc.

Maybe someone familiar with the BD30 can answer. I've grown to appreciate those transport functions on my PS3. My A1 wouldn't do any of that. Does the BD30? Is the BD50 expected to?

The BD 30 has FF with audio. 1.5x just like the PS3. Although it does drop from bitstreaming to multichannel pcm output to have audio during fast forwarding. I can't say I've ever encountered any skips on the hundreds of BD titles and HD DVD titles I've played so that would be a non issue for me.
And the PS3 is no good for games for me. I have four 360s for my gaming since the 360 is better at games in my opinion. And once they correct the LFE issue with the BD30 there will truly be no reason for me to own a PS3. UNless SOny offers movie downloads soon. And I upgraded my 20GB drive to a 160GB drive a long time ago in anticipation of movie downloads. ANd it looks like it will be for nothing unless Sony offers downloads soon.

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post #95 of 170 Old 02-24-2008, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

If you truly lack self dicipline to this extreme degree then I agree that a standalone is what you should get. I have owned the PS3 for about 6 months and have put in a grand total of about 10 hours of gaming on it with the primary use being BR.

It's not me that I am worried about. In fact, I don't game at all.
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post #96 of 170 Old 02-24-2008, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Burke View Post

It's not me that I am worried about. In fact, I don't game at all.

I know, its your kids. Just get a standalone.

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post #97 of 170 Old 02-25-2008, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Snickering Hound View Post

PS3 has an earlier version of HDMI 1.3 that cannot be firmware upgraded to bitstream DTS-HD or Dolby-HD. It can only bitstream the decoded PCM.

Perhaps a later model of the PS3 will have an updated HDMI.

I said the same thing, nobody wants to listen to that. Early version of 1.3 hence...early adopters.

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post #98 of 170 Old 02-25-2008, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by CraigCooper View Post

I would pretty much go along with that. I to expected them to be the same. But after bitstreaming to my Onkyo 875, there does appear to be a difference. Especially with the DTS-HD MA tracks, the Dynamic range is quite apparent.


If they sound different, theres either something wrong with your denon, or your source. The DTS-HD MA and TrueHD are just containers for PCM. Its all decoded (losslessly) to PCM, so if they sound different, theres a bad decoder somewhere.
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post #99 of 170 Old 02-25-2008, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by synovia View Post

If they sound different, theres either something wrong with your denon, or your source. The DTS-HD MA and TrueHD are just containers for PCM. Its all decoded (losslessly) to PCM, so if they sound different, theres a bad decoder somewhere.

Your going to lose sound in the digital to analog conversion. Bit-streaming to your receiver eliminates that step occurring in your player and again in your receiver.

Plus, the Onkyo 805, 875, and 905 use Burr-Brown DAC's for digital to analog conversion which are quite good.

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post #100 of 170 Old 02-25-2008, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Snickering Hound View Post

Your going to lose sound in the digital to analog conversion. Bit-streaming to your receiver eliminates that step occurring in your player and again in your receiver.

Plus, the Onkyo 805, 875, and 905 use Burr-Brown DAC's for digital to analog conversion which are quite good.

Huh? There are no DAC's involved in sending the PCM to the receiver. PCM is still all digital.
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post #101 of 170 Old 02-25-2008, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by iamrobk View Post

Huh? There are no DAC's involved in sending the PCM to the receiver. PCM is still all digital.

PCM is the digital representation of the analog signal.

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post #102 of 170 Old 02-25-2008, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Snickering Hound View Post

PCM is the digital representation of the analog signal.

And TrueHD and DTS-HD MA are just compressed PCM files, so I fail to see how letting the player decode into PCM adds a DAC.
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post #103 of 170 Old 02-25-2008, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by iamrobk View Post

And TrueHD and DTS-HD MA are just compressed PCM files, so I fail to see how letting the player decode into PCM adds a DAC.

Sorry about the truncated responses, I'm in the middle of a bunch stuff here.

When the PS3 decodes the HD tracks to PCM , it can only send to the receiver the PCM that it hears or can handle. That's why some of us would rather send the raw stream to our receivers to decode.

It's the same reason why you would send the Dolby stream from a standard dvd player to your receiver instead of letting your DVD player decode it. Or send the raw 480i video signal from it to your video processor instead of letting its upscaler handle it.

The PS3 has some nice processing capabilities, but there is better stuff out there.

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post #104 of 170 Old 02-25-2008, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Snickering Hound View Post

Sorry about the truncated responses, I'm in the middle of a bunch stuff here.

When the PS3 decodes the HD tracks to PCM , it can only send to the receiver the PCM that it hears or can handle. That's why some of us would rather send the raw stream to our receivers to decode.

It's the same reason why you would send the Dolby stream from a standard dvd player to your receiver instead of letting your DVD player decode it. Or send the raw 480i video signal from it to your video processor instead of letting its upscaler handle it.

The PS3 has some nice processing capabilities, but there is better stuff out there.

That's still not a DAC.

And the difference between player decode and receiver decode would be level only. Not to mention that any discs authored in advanced mode (?) would only have the complete audio available if the PLAYER decodes.
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post #105 of 170 Old 02-25-2008, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Pens1566 View Post

That's still not a DAC.

And the difference between player decode and receiver decode would be level only. Not to mention that any discs authored in advanced mode (?) would only have the complete audio available if the PLAYER decodes.

+1. I have been saying all of this for a LONG time now.


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post #106 of 170 Old 02-25-2008, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snickering Hound View Post

PS3 has an earlier version of HDMI 1.3 that cannot be firmware upgraded to bitstream DTS-HD or Dolby-HD. It can only bitstream the decoded PCM.

Perhaps a later model of the PS3 will have an updated HDMI.

I'm confused here... if the PS3 can bitstream, and bitstreaming is merely the sending of raw data on to the receiver, then why can't the ps3 bitstream DTS-HD or Dolby-HD?


Sorry... i don't mean to doubt your words. It's simply that I have the Onkyo 705, and I too am trying to decide if the PS3 is good enough, or in fact I should hold off for the BD50. I like the idea of the PS3 because it can play back M2T video files, but if I can't get the better audio formats even with the onkyo 705, then it will have to be the BD50
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post #107 of 170 Old 02-25-2008, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by gunbunnysoulja View Post

+1. I have been saying all of this for a LONG time now.


But that's just it, the difference is more than a level difference. It doesn't sound better because of the sound level. I even it out when making comparisons. Before I tried bitstreaming I expected it to sound the same, but it doesn't. This is also reflected by other people that have compared bitstreaming to player decoding. I assume the difference is caused by how the receiver processes PCM compared to it doing internal decoding. I just know there is a difference and other people have noticed it as well.

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post #108 of 170 Old 02-26-2008, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

And the PS3 doesn't have the capability to bit stream the advanced audio codecs to the receiver. Which is another reason why the BD30/BD50 is much better for plaing BD titles than the PS3. I think there is no comparison. The BD30/BD50 beats the PS3 in every way.

Well, no. First, the BD50 isn't out yet so no one can really say if it's better or not. As for the BD30, it doesn't decode True-HD, so for people with HDMI 1.1 receivers, it's worse. Also, there's no chance the BD30 will get upgraded to profile 2.0, whereas the PS3 will.

With the LFE bug fixed, I have no problem recommending the BD30, but it's not the best for everyone.
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post #109 of 170 Old 02-26-2008, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

But that's just it, the difference is more than a level difference. It doesn't sound better because of the sound level. I even it out when making comparisons. Before I tried bitstreaming I expected it to sound the same, but it doesn't. This is also reflected by other people that have compared bitstreaming to player decoding. I assume the difference is caused by how the receiver processes PCM compared to it doing internal decoding. I just know there is a difference and other people have noticed it as well.

It depends on your receiver. On mine (Integra 8.8) there's no difference other than being able to set a listening mode specific to that format. All the other listening modes, including the THX modes that I normally use, sound exactly the same.
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post #110 of 170 Old 02-26-2008, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Jay_Davis View Post

Well, no. First, the BD50 isn't out yet so no one can really say if it's better or not. As for the BD30, it doesn't decode True-HD, so for people with HDMI 1.1 receivers, it's worse. Also, there's no chance the BD30 will get upgraded to profile 2.0, whereas the PS3 will.

With the LFE bug fixed, I have no problem recommending the BD30, but it's not the best for everyone.

Exactly. Both machines have advantages and disadvantages over eachother.

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post #111 of 170 Old 02-26-2008, 09:22 AM
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This would be a niche, but the PS3 plays SACDs too. I tried a few and the music is truly remarkable.
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post #112 of 170 Old 02-26-2008, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jmcomp124 View Post

This would be a niche, but the PS3 plays SACDs too. I tried a few and the music is truly remarkable.

The 40GB version doesn't play SACDs, only the older models. But what sounds even better is SACD from the OPPPO player streaming the DSD over HDMI. It sounds much more vibrant than what I get from the PS3 converting to PCM first.

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post #113 of 170 Old 02-26-2008, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

The Panasonic BD50 clearly looks like it will be the better movie player in general to me:

PS3 can't bitstreaming of nextgen codecs. The Panasonic BD50 can.
PS3 can't decode DTS-HDMA. The Panasonic BD50 can.
PS3 doesn't have analog 5.1 outs. The Panasonic BD50 does.
PS3 can get loud with stage2/3 fan ramp ups. Panasonic BD50 doesn't need a big fan and is quiet like the BD30.
PS3 is large. Panasonic BD50 is small.
PS3 is ugly (IMO). Panasonic BD50 is sleek.
PS3 requires a bluetooth remote incompatible with your Universal. Panasonic BD50 uses compatible IR.
Panasonic BD50 is very fast and has all the remaining movie features of PS3, plus BD profile 2.0 support.

And, AVS insiders have implied that the LFE bug in the BD30 will most likely be fixed in the BD50. So all around, the BD50 looks like it will take the crown as best BD player IMO.

You forgot the biggest benefit of them all!!! We won't have to hear PS3 Sony fanboyz running around spinning on their eyebrows chanting that the PS3 is the one and only true Blu Ray Machine. Rejoice!!!
Actually I think #1 will be the Panny BD50, then the BD30, then possibly the PS3 in the 3rd spot.

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post #114 of 170 Old 02-27-2008, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by suffolk112000 View Post

You forgot the biggest benefit of them all!!! We won't have to hear PS3 Sony fanboyz running around spinning on their eyebrows chanting that the PS3 is the one and only true Blu Ray Machine. Rejoice!!!
Actually I think #1 will be the Panny BD50, then the BD30, then possibly the PS3 in the 3rd spot.

Yawn, boring, say something original....

BTW, it says PS3 on the front.....

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post #115 of 170 Old 03-04-2008, 06:34 PM
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Hate to interrupt you guys, but is there an official release date for the BD50?

Thx in advance.

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post #116 of 170 Old 03-05-2008, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by FCEEVIPER View Post

Hate to interrupt you guys, but is there an official release date for the BD50?

Thx in advance.

I took a quick stroll through the BD50 thread that's about and didn't see one listed.

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post #117 of 170 Old 03-05-2008, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by FCEEVIPER View Post

Hate to interrupt you guys, but is there an official release date for the BD50?

Thx in advance.

blu-ray.com says April 1, but it's not official, and I don't think anyone knows their source, if they even have one.
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post #118 of 170 Old 03-05-2008, 08:26 AM
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Well I hope it's here sooner than later.

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They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with.
Some men just want to watch the world burn."

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post #119 of 170 Old 03-05-2008, 10:04 AM
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you must not have kids.

Wrong, I bet he probably is one.
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post #120 of 170 Old 03-05-2008, 10:30 AM
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One thing I do not like about my PS3 is it does not have a proper 2 prong plug and no chassis ground and noise via HDMI ground loops seems to be handled worse than other AV devices I have. In other words the noise floor is a lot higher than other devices so much so that I don't bother with SACD's with quiet passages. I have spent much time alleviating the issue but still think it is inherently a noisier device and I am not even taking into account the fan which doesn't bother me much but many people have complained about it. Basically the focus of the machine is a gaming machine and not a quality AV device and IMO it shows.
Not to say it doesn't have it attributes even in a HT environment.

-Craig
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