Disaster at Cinema Murray - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 52 Old 03-15-2009, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Or "Captain Randy reenacts The Poseidon Adventure."

So, a short opening post and pics so some of you may benefit from my misery. Then I've got to get back to drinking.

The was one of those weekends when the universe conspired against me. First, Friday night we went downstair to pick out a movie. My daughter in her stocking feet said, "the floor's wet." We quickly determined that the water heater was leaking. It sat in the equipment room near the theater entry. And yes, the carpet was wet. We damped it up - didn't seem too bad, created a barrier around the water heater, and left it at that.

Bright and early Saturday I started making calls. By 8 P.M. we have a brand new, shockingly expensive tankless water heater installed in the 2nd utility room. The old 75 gallon tank is still sitting there until tomorrow - it's too leaky to move and they have to bring a special bag to haul it out.

With all the traffic over the carpet, we noticed it was getting wetter and wetter, so we pulled it up to discover that the pad was completely soaked. So I pulled the entire entry way carpet up and pulled up the pad. Not so bad.

Sunday morning (today). Checked things out - carpet drying nicely. The gas had been turned off during the install, so the furnace was off. I decided it was a good opportunity to clean the furnace filters, so I hauled them outside and hosed them down, then stuck the running hose in the hot tub. It was the first time I'd had the hose on all winter. I made a trip downstairs and . . .

There was a complete waterfall coming down the door seal at the theater entrance.

I was a complete moment of heart break. I sprinted back, yelling. My wife got the water off and we immediately began toweling and trying to isolate the gallons of water. I can't even talk about it right now.

I called in the pros with water extraction equipment and industrial strength dehumidifiers and fans. I'm just depressed and stunned. I'll know in about 3 days if that will be enough or if we'll have to start pulling down walls.

Here are a few pics - I'll post details as I have them.

Cleaning up the water

Lessons for all of you: if you have a standard tank water heater, get it replaced before year 10 and go tankless if you can (there's a 30% government tax credit for tankless).

#2 - make sure you have frost-proof exterior faucets.

Randy

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post #2 of 52 Old 03-15-2009, 04:44 PM
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Randy,
I am so sorry for your loss. Hang in there, disaster can create new opportunities. My space is not a fraction as nice as Cinema Murray but I know that beast of a hot water heater is going to get me some day.

Keep us posted and keep your chin up...it's going to be okay.

p.s. I didn't expect to make my 2000th post on this type of news!
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post #3 of 52 Old 03-15-2009, 06:36 PM
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Captain...If I lived in Ohio I'd be there with reinforcements. Your theater is one of the most incredible theaters on this forum. I have a friend whos washing machine machine over flowed and all the detergent and water went thru the floor boards into his pride and joy GINORMOUS salt water fish tank !!!! The call went out and the fish brigade came runnin' Hang in there and good luck.

Mike.
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post #4 of 52 Old 03-15-2009, 06:50 PM
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Ouch, My 14 year old tank is calling. Thanks for a reminder.

Tell me about the Flux capacitor.
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post #5 of 52 Old 03-15-2009, 07:15 PM
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Randy, I am so sorry. Here's hoping it only gets better from here on out. BIG, I'm up to year 11 but noticed the last few days we've had to keep hitting the reset button in order to get hot water . I have a service plan with my oil company but want to be home when I call them to come check it out.
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post #6 of 52 Old 03-16-2009, 06:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, everyone.

It was a hard weekend, but fast and decisive action seems to have worked. The theater this AM was 90 degrees and all the carpets were dry - the entry hall too. We have at least 2 more days of active drying to go. I'm fairly confident this will take care of things, but I won't feel better until everything is restored and back in place.

Why did I pick this week to stop sniffing glue?

Randy

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post #7 of 52 Old 03-16-2009, 06:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Ouch, My 14 year old tank is calling. Thanks for a reminder.

Tell me about the Flux capacitor.

Well, I noticed that the new water heater was in the same form factor as the Flux Capacitor.

And I was trying to figure out how to get the theater up to 88 miles per hour and skip back to last week to try and avoid this mess.

Randy

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post #8 of 52 Old 03-16-2009, 10:34 AM
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For those who do have a tank-style water heater, I'd STRONGLY suggest using a leak-pan with it. When I swapped out the absurdely small (for this size house) 40 gallon heater for a 75 gallon unit, I included one in the install:


-Steve
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post #9 of 52 Old 03-16-2009, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scaesare View Post

For those who do have a tank-style water heater, I'd STRONGLY suggest using a leak-pan with it. When I swapped out the absurdely small (for this size house) 40 gallon heater for a 75 gallon unit, I included one in the install:

Nice design Steve. I'll take it.

I need to swap out my 40 Gallon one, and need a sump pit put in.

Randy - sorry for your situation. Fingers crossed.
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post #10 of 52 Old 03-16-2009, 12:36 PM
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Sorry to hear than Randy, hope all turns out well. If homeowners covers it you could always look at putting in new carpet and other damaged items just trying to look at the bright side.
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post #11 of 52 Old 03-16-2009, 12:42 PM
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Randy, so sorry about the water situation. My tank is going to be 10 this June, and I've been keeping a close eye on it. I do have a water sensor hooked into my house alarm sitting right at the base of the sucker for early warning.

When things settle down, I'd be interested in your opinion (or anyone else's for that matter) of the tankless H2O-heater. I've read mixed reviews about the whole house kind.
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post #12 of 52 Old 03-16-2009, 01:52 PM
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Randy, my heart goes out to you. I'm in Gahanna, so I would have been there in a flash. I am at about 13 years with my standard 40 gal unit and have been looking at the Rinnai tankless units. Is that the one you went with? Who installed it?

They are expensive, but with 2 girls and 4 showers each morning, the idea of no longer staggering our showers each morning is beginning to appeal more and more to me...............
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post #13 of 52 Old 03-16-2009, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccasle View Post

Randy, my heart goes out to you. I'm in Gahanna, so I would have been there in a flash. I am at about 13 years with my standard 40 gal unit and have been looking at the Rinnai tankless units. Is that the one you went with? Who installed it?

They are expensive, but with 2 girls and 4 showers each morning, the idea of no longer staggering our showers each morning is beginning to appeal more and more to me...............

Too early to tell, but my neighbor put one in last year and liked it. So far it seems fine (and I have 2 daughters, too - one away at college at the moment).

We put in this model Rinnai R75LSi - and yes, it was expensive, but after the 30% tax credit, the savings on gas, and long life, it will be an easy net positive. They can't be installed just anywhere - and that will effect how long it takes hot water to reach your sink or shower and how you set your dials.

Thanks again everyone - it ain't over yet, but we're making progress. I just learned that fixing the external faucet that caused this is going to be a mess, too.

Randy

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post #14 of 52 Old 03-16-2009, 05:41 PM
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Randy,
Sorry to hear about your mishap, but great info to pass along. I have a few extra pressure treated 2x4s that I was going to use later on to build a moat around the water heater, seal up the bottom, and install a low profile condensate pump. I guess I'll be looking to build it sooner than later. Hope everything is working out OK
Rich
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post #15 of 52 Old 03-17-2009, 11:18 AM
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Captn,
sorry bout that but gotta share this with ya. My son goes down to the theater and watches cartoons on Saturdays. This day he comes running back upstairs and yells "Dad Dad! I think WE have a problem...I'm not sure but I think someone used the bathroom on the carpet cause its really wet....and it wasnt me I went before I went down there!!!"
LOL..come to find out there is standing water on the floor and lobby area..Man...Honey!! Honey!!!..bring me a beer please..Brother I know how you feel. luckily I didnt cry too long and got all the water and carpet up and dried it out in a day or two...come to find out water line in bathroom sprung a leak and leaked all over the basement floor.

"Get your hands out of my pocket"
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post #16 of 52 Old 03-17-2009, 02:24 PM
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I researched the tankless when I replaced my water heater but that was over five years ago. The general consensus at the time was that the downsides of the tankless were too great and stick with the regular ones. Has the technology improved in the past few years?

My perpetual home theater build - Omaha Theater #5
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post #17 of 52 Old 03-17-2009, 05:21 PM
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Hey Randy,

Sorry to hear about your waterlogging adventures in your theater. Hopefully everything dries out and operates AOK in the end.

Keep us posted on the external faucet situation, as I feel I may need to repair / replace mine as well, and there's no way in hell I can contort myself over the water heater to get to the inside side of the faucet hookup
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post #18 of 52 Old 03-17-2009, 06:23 PM
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Sorry to hear your water heater leaked, Randy.

I installed a Rinnai 94LSi gas tankless water heater in January and I love it. My water heater was 10 years old and I felt it was better to be safe than sorry. I did a bunch of research beforehand and found that Rinnai was constantly rated best (and had the trick single intake/exhaust).

As with an HT install or anything else, make sure you get several quotes from several installers. I went to the Find A Dealer area of the Rinnai website where each dealer is rated. I contacted every installer that had a five star rating (happened to be five of them) for a quote. My quotes ranged in price from $2200 to $3600 installed for the 94LSi (9.4 gpm). Although my decision was based on price and the competence of the installer, I went with the $2200 bid since he was already installing these same units in all of the local Macaroni Grill restaurants and many hotels. My installer did a fantastic job and in only 3 hours.

After the fact I found the same Rinnai 94LSi model online for $1200 and I could have installed it myself. It's actually quite simple; hot and cold water, a hole to the outside for intake/exhaust and a 110 AC plugin for power/ignition. If you can build your own HT, you can definately install a tankless.

We gained space from the removal of the old water heater and save money on our gas/electric bill (too early to tell exactly how much). With the new Stimulus package, you can even get a tax credit for 30% of your tankless water heater cost up to $1500. The water doesn't seem to take any longer to get hot, but the one down side is if your electricity goes out you don't have hot water (unless you put it on a backup battery - it only needs power to ignite the pilot for the gas).

Last but not least, if you don't have gas I wouldn't consider tankless for the reasons Rinnai mentions here. The relative cost to heat water with an electric tankless isn't worth it.

Chuck Nibbana
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post #19 of 52 Old 03-17-2009, 07:08 PM
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Randy,

Dude - I am so sorry.....Better the The Poseidon Adventure than the Titanic.... but it still su--s! My water heater may be 20 years old - and its 20 feet away from my Sump pump! I already had the sump fail last spring - the carpet acted like a sponge and saved my new walls that time....

I was even up in Westerville at Central HS on Saturday at my daughters Drumline competition - I would have been glad to help out any way I could (a few shots of some well aged scotch if nothing else....)

I had a similar experience with a frost proof faucet in military housing, not fun....

Hope all turns out well..

Cheers
Jerry

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Hope all is going well Randy. Advertisiments are what keeps this forum running which doesn't bother me a bit. Actually, this is one place I'm glad to see advertising. But just noticed the ubiquitous Google ads running above Randy's post. The power of suggestion...like lawyers after a car accident! It does get you thinking though.

PA Basement Waterproofing, Mold Removal & Basement Finishing Pros, Call Us!... and... Get Leaky Basements Fixed in New Jersey, Create A Healthier Home Environment Get Quality Waterproofing Systems!
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post #21 of 52 Old 03-17-2009, 09:14 PM
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and this google ad " Emergency Water Removal"..... oh the irony.....

Hows the dryin out coming along? I'm guessing the pipe burst inside your house but you could not know that until you turned on the water. First time I turned on the water in the Spring - I had water flowing inside and outside the house - I was actually filling up water balloons when the water started flowing out through the bricks ( and all through the kitchen and laundry room).........

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post #22 of 52 Old 03-18-2009, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Update:

We're making progress - this is the final day with the dehumidifiers and fans - the current temp. in the theater is 106 degrees! They tell me that it's completely dry, but must run today by their protocol.

The next step after they remove the equipment tonight is to get the carpet pad back down and carpet re-seated - I don't think it will need to be replaced.

And the plumber finally replaced the external faucet that caused the big mess. The split in the line was a full foot back on the copper and a 1" long blowout. No wonder water was pouring in. I had that one removed and capped, so that problem can never occur again. The new one, placed in the utility room near the sump, has an interior shutoff valve AND a drain - so before it freezes I can take care of the issue. I have another at the front of the house I'm going to do the same thing with.

Thanks for all the support and I'll post as things progress.

Thanks,

Randy

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post #23 of 52 Old 03-18-2009, 09:28 AM
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Did you have a hose hooked up to it when it split? They same thing happened to me. I left the hose on for the winter, thinking frostless!, and the line split.

Understanding the unexplainable"
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post #24 of 52 Old 03-18-2009, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskey alpha View Post

Did you have a hose hooked up to it when it split? They same thing happened to me. I left the hose on for the winter, thinking frostless!, and the line split.

Yes - I thought I was OK too and left the hose on. Don't do it! I'll take pics of the busted line - it's eye opening.

Randy

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post #25 of 52 Old 03-18-2009, 02:58 PM
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Man, that sucks. sorry to see this on such a nice theater...
I just moved into my brand new home about 2 yrs ago and the past 2 winters, I forgot to shut off the exterior faucets. and it has the frostless design and uses CPVC. Your thread is an eye opener! I will make sure I shut these puppies off for the winter and keep the faucets fully opened!
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post #26 of 52 Old 03-19-2009, 10:12 AM
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Randy,

Noob here. Have lurked for some time but now I need to get some answers of my own. I read this and my heart sank for you. In November my tank (WAY beyond 10 years - WAY) leaked and soaked our lower level family and rec rooms. We had to pull the carpet and begin some demolition of the walls as well.

The good news is that we have taken this opportunity to completely remodel and I'm on here to get some answers on installing my new TV and A/V system (not dedicated HT). This is my biggest fear, however, is something like this happening again!!

Hope the downtime is short.

A Fellow Buckeye!!
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post #27 of 52 Old 03-19-2009, 11:17 AM
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Watch your furnace humidifiers too... Been there done that...
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post #28 of 52 Old 03-19-2009, 03:12 PM
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Same problem with my water heater last year.

Also replaced it with a Rinnai.

Also had the pros come in to clean up.

Prompted us to perform a full basement re-refinish. Very, very expensive...walls saved, but all flooring replaced.

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post #29 of 52 Old 03-19-2009, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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update - took another day, but the gear is all out and bone dry. Carpet repair tomorrow and then pretty much back to normal after a carpet clean.

Damn. That was one hell of a long week.

Randy

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post #30 of 52 Old 03-19-2009, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallAVSystem View Post


A Fellow Buckeye!!

And in the sweet 16!

Give me a shout if you're in the area (after I have things back in shape). Always happy to meet and show the place off to fellow hobbyists!

Randy

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