Need some home Theater advice - AVS Forum
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello, I'm looking for some home theater design advice, appreciate any suggestions any one can give.

From the attached pics I'm trying to build a smaller style home theater with all of my Klipsch set-up from up-stairs, and installing it in a built-in wall set-up above a fire place. The wall unit will be 7.5 feet to 8 feet wide, and 7.5 feet high. The viewing height to the center of the 55" lcd tv would be 52", and have the couches back to about 9 feet to 10 feet. Where I'm looking for suggests is am I better off changing the way this is, better off changing the fireplace to the corner and doing a 45 deg corner fireplace, and using most of the wall for a larger built-in, or from the pics would this be something really cool? I have a crew starting in a couple of days, but looking to get some suggestions from some on here and see what you all have to say.

In the fireplace pic, right to the left side of the pic, before the door way opening, thats the place I'm installing a middle atlantic rack, and also installing a Lutron 3106, 6 zone grafik eye, running Liberty 12-2 in-wall rated speaker cable, and bought all in-wall rated component and hdmi cables.
That all I have for now, appreciate any feedback, thanks!
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Old 04-20-2010, 05:26 PM
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Hey Chad - welcome to the build thread madhouse! Looking at your photo of the fireplace it looks like an entirely new room. Is that correct?

If so, and this is a room you want to use as a main TV or PJ viewing area, I would not start with the fireplace front and center. Many people find themselves in that situation because the room is already built and there is a fireplace already placed front and center. But if you skim the forum you'll find many, many people putting a TV above a fireplace only to be unhappy because of the compromises this prompts them to make - especially the viewing height being uncomfortably high.

So for starters, can you clarify what your situation is with regards to this room?

P.S. You'll get far more feedback if you imbed your photo directly into the post rather than attach them!

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Old 04-20-2010, 06:16 PM
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Let me share our personal experience of pursuit of Home Theater.

Don't make the focus "sound" if the end result is a Theater in the Home experience.

We have a nice, new, 3D ready 60in true HD TV and it's a VERY nice TV BUT it is incapable of delivering a "Theater" visual experience. We don't have a giant area.

We knew we had achieved Theater in the Home when we bought our first projector and screen. Tending to your ears is an important component of "theater" but it is and always will be secondary to the visual component.

We don't have a giant viewing area. We sit about 15 ft from the TV and about 13 ft from the projection screen. When we want a genuine "at the movies" experience we gotta dim the lights and watch the big wall screen - the GREAT television just can't compete - no way and no how.

Maybe you can put the TV to one side of the viewing area and a pull down or electric projection screen over the FP.

It's not that you can't call a TV and nice surround sound a "home theater". It's just that no one will get that "at the movies" feeling with a television - that was and is our personal experience.
Best of Luck
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Old 04-20-2010, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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ok, thanks guys, here's what it looks like now upstairs in my living room:

2 sets Klipsch RF-7's, one front, one rear.
I split my center channel into 2 seperate speakers, 2-RB-35's, smaller sourounds in front and back, with 1 powered 12" sub in the middle:
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Old 04-20-2010, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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This is the bassement view now, this house was built in 1962, removed old not very well insulated walls, and a very cold before the fireplace.
This was installed a while ago, and after saving up some more funds, I can finially finish some stuff up.

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Old 04-20-2010, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is the cad model I designed up to view the wall unit:

The red area shows the wood box to set the new 55" LCD into the wall. The front of the wall is 7.5 feet across.
Now I know everyone will automatically state the only way to call a theater is a projector screen.
My only part is that I'm trying to create something different, have really nice stone to put on the face of the wall.
I've talked to a half dozen people that have their set's well over the 55" height area and they enjoy that distance, they had to get use to it.
I've had so much going into this that I don't know if I could consider changing this, but this is why I was opening up to suggestions, which I apprecaite.
I will call the guy that installed the fireplace and see if it can be moved to the right hand corner at a 45, but praying that I can still angle the pipe some way to keep the roof vent location.
These are the days of our AVS lives, lol......... Thanks again for the suggests!!
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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123 views and no love, hummmm.... Whats hanesian's secret to thread love.....

OK let's try this:

I'd consider moving the fireplace to another part of the room, what are my choices for a projector and screen for 9 to 10' wide ( aprox width ) ??
Then my ceiling height is low, around 7.5 feet, but it's 28 feet deep. Now lets see my screen and projector options....
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Old 04-21-2010, 06:05 PM
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Chadster,

Part of the trick to getting participation is to be patient and keep posting for a while. There are a LOT of threads for folks to peruse, so it may take a while to get traffic.

Having said that, it might help to give more of an idea of what your overall vision is for this space. Are you thinking of a dedicated theater space? A multipurpose room? A bar or game room?

You've hopped right in to the concept of a TV over a fireplace, and asked a couple questions about where the fireplace should be, but it's hard for folks to give opinions until you give them more of a big picture vision of what's important to you.

If that fails, try silly photos sometimes help.

Good luck!

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Old 04-21-2010, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheaterChad View Post

123 views and no love, hummmm.... Whats hanesian's secret to thread love.....

OK let's try this:

I'd consider moving the fireplace to another part of the room, what are my choices for a projector and screen for 9 to 10' wide ( aprox width ) ??
Then my ceiling height is low, around 7.5 feet, but it's 28 feet deep. Now lets see my screen and projector options....

Stupid photos usually gets the love.

I'll post my opinions and thoughts here in a little while. My son needs to commander the computer for his homework.

Regards,

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Old 04-21-2010, 07:56 PM
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Ok, here goes you want opinions so I'm going to give you some.

* I will under most circumstances try to persuade people NOT to place their TV over a fireplace. There are too many compromises to be made when this mounting option is utilized. Some of the considerations are the heat generated by the fireplace heat + electronics = bad. Viewing height. Ideally the bottom third to half of the TV should be at your viewing height and half to two thirds above you viewing height. Here is a reference for height and here is one for the fireplace, although this does not talk about the heat there is still the issue.

* Focal point. The fireplace is typically a focal point in the room and the TV the other. Why (unless you absolutely have to) have one right on top of the other.

* If your space is large enough why limit yourself to a TV? Have you considered a projector? What are the dimensions of the room in the basement? If you flip the room you could have the fireplace at the rear and then the wall opposite have a nice screen wall for a projector.

* Built ins, while typically beautiful and useful lending an air of custom work, they really limit you in the future for doing anything else without doing some major rework.

Take some more photos of your space 360 degrees, so we all can see what we have to work with.

I hope this helps.

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Old 04-22-2010, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanesian View Post

Chadster,

Part of the trick to getting participation is to be patient and keep posting for a while. There are a LOT of threads for folks to peruse, so it may take a while to get traffic.

Having said that, it might help to give more of an idea of what your overall vision is for this space. Are you thinking of a dedicated theater space? A multipurpose room? A bar or game room?

You've hopped right in to the concept of a TV over a fireplace, and asked a couple questions about where the fireplace should be, but it's hard for folks to give opinions until you give them more of a big picture vision of what's important to you.

If that fails, try silly photos sometimes help.

Good luck!

Sorry, I was trying t be funny, I saw over 130 people view the thread and only two people chimed in for an opinion, sorry about my silly sense of humor'

In my first post, I made the Mistake on asking about Home Theater suggestions when this is auctually a Home Entertainment / partial theater area / bar area behind the wall unit of view.

Quote:


From the attached pics I'm trying to build a smaller style home theater with all of my Klipsch set-up from up-stairs, and installing it in a built-in wall set-up above a fire place. The wall unit will be 7.5 feet to 8 feet wide, and 7.5 feet high. The viewing height to the center of the 55" lcd tv would be 52", and have the couches back to about 9 feet to 10 feet. Where I'm looking for suggests is am I better off changing the way this is, better off changing the fireplace to the corner and doing a 45 deg corner fireplace, and using most of the wall for a larger built-in, or from the pics would this be something really cool? I have a crew starting in a couple of days, but looking to get some suggestions from some on here and see what you all have to say.

I have a crew starting in the basement next monday, and I was kind'of in a hurry mode when I typed up this post, so in a nervous mode on wondering what people think. I asked 5 co-workers where I work and they are considering something the same as what I'm doing.


Quote:


RTROSE:
I will under most circumstances try to persuade people NOT to place their TV over a fireplace. There are too many compromises to be made when this mounting option is utilized. Some of the considerations are the heat generated by the fireplace heat + electronics = bad. Viewing height. Ideally the bottom third to half of the TV should be at your viewing height and half to two thirds above you viewing height. Here is a reference for height and here is one for the fireplace, although this does not talk about the heat there is still the issue.

RT, thanks for the response, Looking at the blue cad model of the wall-unit, the LCD tv would be recessed over 12 or more inches away from the fron of the opening, the fireplace is a zero clearance unit, you can touch the top of the fire place with your hands, it does not throw heat up, there's a large fan blowing the heat atleast 2 to 3 feet away from the front of the unit.

My last post shows me saying that I'd consider moving the FP to another wall or corner, and I asked what my options would be for a conserative priced projector and screen........

I had the Fireplace installed 2 years ago, and I really don't want to spend big money, ( had it professionally installed with the most expensive pipe going all the way up to the roof. I have tooo much invested into this to consider moving the Fireplace.....

So in a nut-shell, I'm trying to get some feed-back, I should have done this along time ago, but I was set on this, and I'm gonna be stuck just going with it. Thanks.
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Old 04-22-2010, 11:41 AM
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I'll throw in my 2 cents, hope it gives you some usable knowledge. I put my fireplace in the corner as you are thinking about. You can try the link in my signature to see it, if the thread hasn't been sent to archive. It is a vented fireplace with the pipe going thru the band board since it is an exterior wall. You just have to be sure the vent on the outside is high enough off the ground if your in an area that gets snow. Since I went this direction with the fireplace one of the things I had to consider was how much wall space I was losing for my screen. It turned out to be fine so no issue's for me and since you appear to be going the route of a TV I don't think it will be for you. Now for your current design, looking at the 3D cad drawing it appears you are building a box that will set on top of the fireplace. I'm guessing the front of the box will be flush with the front of the fireplace wall. I like the idea on paper but my concern is, where do you put the center channel and the left/right speakers? I suppose you could mount the left and right to the sides but the center channel needs to be above or below the screen. Also, the height of the screen may be an issue. I would temporarily mount the tv above the fireplace somehow just to test drive it to see if you feel it will be uncomfortable to watch. As far as mounting the TV above the fireplace, I don't want to start a war over the subject but if the TV is recessed some into the box it will not be in direct line of the heat that rises. Plus, if your fireplace has a blower it will send the heat out into the room not allowing that much to rise staight up towards to TV.
Hope this helps.

I like this place!!!
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Old 04-22-2010, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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HT1:
Thanks!, yes, I know I should have done exactly what you did, put the fireplace in the corner, and have more room for a stand-a-lone cabinet or a projector screen. I don't know if money is an option to re-consider re-installing and re-doing a gas line to make this change...

My digital camera died, I will have to borrow one or buy a new one, I'll take some other pics to show everyone the view like one said a 360 view. Thanks!
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Old 04-22-2010, 02:52 PM
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Chad,

I know it sounds like I'm trying to rain on your parade, but honestly that is not what I am intending to do. I am just trying to educate you and give you opinions on what I have experience with and what I have seen here on AVS. That is the great thing about this forum, you can draw from all the experience here and go forward.

I am always happy to see people here because that means you have taken the extra step that 95% of the people don't, they just trod along in ignorant bliss.

HT1 does bring an excellent point about the center channel placement. If your fireplace does not vent heat directly up then I think you should be fine regarding the heat issue.

Lets see those 360 pics (once you get the camera situation sorted out) and we can give you some more suggestions.

Regards,

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Old 04-23-2010, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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RTROSE,

I know your not raining on my parade, you all are giving advise, and I appreciate it!!!

I'm getting down on myself as I should have done this 3 years ago, this house has been nothing but a money pit ( as I'm sure they all are, lol ) but if I was to cange my mind, it will even run into more dollars that I will ever get out of this house.

Long story short, I've been working on my basement for several years, I had to have some drain tile re-done to bad workman-ship, at the time I had to remove a wood buring stove, and had to make an split second decision as to what to do with the space, so I installed a Fire place in the center of the room, with the vision of doing something I know that's something not practical, but not usually done, tv above the Fire Place.

The fireplace vent is going up through the garage, and straight up through the roof. Too much going back and forth with this, there will be no heat issues in the front, there will be a ceiling fan to distribute the heat, the fire place will not be on 100 percent of the time, and on a thermostat for room temp. I've spent so much money on this house I'm getting really sick of the whole deal, I just want to finish it, and sell it, and move on, and look for a newer home that has a better lay out to build a real dedicated theater, and a spearate home entertainment area. I'm going to look for a new digital camera tonight, hopefully I can post some more pics, thanks!.

HT1,
Look at the first pic of the up-stairs, the center channel was split into two sperate speakers to be on each side of the wall unit....No issues there...
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:58 AM
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for wood burners, i would tend not to go with any type of mounting system near them if you want longevity out of electrical components..

unless you're planning to relocate the chimney I would advise against shifting it..
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Old 04-23-2010, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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This was built buy an avid avs member on this forum, he did this up-stairs in the main floor of his house, and he LOVES it!! Guess there might be something good from this after-all, lol.......

I'm even installing the same stone in this picture...

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Old 04-23-2010, 09:10 PM
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That is beautiful. If that is what you want to shoot for aesthetically it is very nicely done and really becomes the focal point of the room. They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery so if that is what you want go for it.

I'm still gonna say that the TV is mounted too high, but I do like the overall look.

If yours turns out half as nice I would say you could be very proud of your work.

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Old 04-23-2010, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

That is beautiful. If that is what you want to shoot for aesthetically it is very nicely done and really becomes the focal point of the room. They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery so if that is what you want go for it.

I'm still gonna say that the TV is mounted too high, but I do like the overall look.

If yours turns out half as nice I would say you could be very proud of your work.

Regards,

RTROSE

RT,

The set I'm looking at will definetly be lower than this one, and my fireplace is way lower to the ground than the pic shows.

I'm Sorry, that stone in that pic is REAL, it's sold at The Tile shop, and it weighs 25 lbs per piece, each piece is 6" x 23 inches long.
The entire face of my wall-unit will be covered just like that.

This IS my only option, ( money wise ) and I have 18 x 18 lime stone that's going on the floor, and my best friend tile installer who installs tile & stone for a living, will be my saving grace...

I know, everyone is right about screen height, unfortunately, I made this decision a-long time-ago. It would have been perfect for a projector screen, but I'm not loosing out on my 3,000 investment in the fireplace and paying again to re-install, and run a new gas line, & inspect.

The crew starts Monday, and it's full steam ahead, I will post progress pics, I have to get a new digital camera, doe!

After this is all complete, and the house is shined up and sold, I will definetly buy a house or build one that has enough room just like the same thread as Big Red Theater Build, and build a theater similar to that, I have many components that I'm not using here like my grafik eye 6 zone unit and more, speciality lighting, several rolls of wire, etc.

Late Friday Eve Idea ( LOL ) Tonight I'm going to try to see if I can get a cabinet to one side of the Fireplace, I think I can move the FP a-little, about a foot or so, to the left., and I'll see what size of cabinet I can fit in there, I just bought a new cabinet making saw, getting ready to make some vanity cabinets.

Thanks RT!!
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Old 04-26-2010, 09:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Update,

I called the guy that installed my fireplace, and there is no adaptor chimney pipe going from a 4 to 8", and it would be costly buying another set of pipe venting straight up to the roof, removing the roof vent, and re-shingling, and re-installing another roof vent, etc. So I'm gonna stick with the current design. Still have to get some more pics up, gonna have to buy a new digital camera tomorrow. Thx.
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Old 04-27-2010, 07:51 PM
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That is really sweet looking stone. Is it real or faux stone? Any links to where you got it? I am thinking of doing something similar around my screen.

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Old 04-27-2010, 08:19 PM
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No sweat, I'm glad I could chime in with my .02 worth. Looking forward to progress pics. No worries, the bottom line is no matter what anyone says, as long as you are happy then that is truly all that really matters. That is why we do all of this crazy stuff. Just look around here and you will see that there are hundreds of different ways to do basically the same thing. Its all good!

Now get to work!

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Old 04-27-2010, 08:47 PM
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May seem like a dumb questions but given that shot, where are you putting your center channel? Aesthetics-wise it's beautiful but likely not optimal for sound/audio. Comes down to what you want to compromise on.
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:19 PM
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Hey Chad, my media room build is very similiar to yours EXCEPT the FP was already there and that's all i had to work with. For casual viewing there's a 50" flatpanel above the FP and for the real deal, a drop down 106" screen. Here's a pic of the screen wall.



The soffit above is where the PJ screen is hidden.

As to the built ins for speakers....DON"T DO IT! It's just about the worst thing you can do to a box speaker as the bass response becomes bloated and the baffle diffraction of the mids and highs gets destroyed......not to mention you're locked into the dimensions. Position your main speakers on stands to the left and right with room behind and to the sides......your ears will love you for it.

The dual center speakers............get rid of that as soon as possible. Comb filtering from the drive units overlapp at waaaaay beyond the XO freq wavelength is a really bad artifact.

I didn't see a floorplan ,measurement of the space, nor any windows so if light control is that good, a PJ and screen are almost a no brainer here as you've got the biggest hurdles overcome. Personally, i'd scratch the flatscreen if you could and just do the drop down screen IFO the fireplace which keeps the fireplace as the focal point when the screen in tucked away. I only added one as daytime light control in this room is poor so the flatscreen is a must for daytime viewing.
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queendvd2 View Post

May seem like a dumb questions but given that shot, where are you putting your center channel? Aesthetics-wise it's beautiful but likely not optimal for sound/audio. Comes down to what you want to compromise on.

Hey Queen, Absolutely no dumb questions, just brainstorming on peoples thoughts and ideas!



I made a prototype of this idea about two years ago, and I had to call Yamaha direct to find out how to hook two speakers up to split the center channel. They will go on stands on the outside of the wall unit.

Now I know this idea is NOT AVS politically approved, but all I can say is that I've watched all of the current blu-ray movies, and this set-up with the center split, sounds great, like I said, AVS approved and what sounds good enough for me are two different things....

With four Klipsch RF-7 towers ( one pair in the front and one pair behind the picture ) & a powered 12" sub in the center, the soud is something to be heard....

Compromise is what I've had to come down to....
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Iusteve View Post

That is really sweet looking stone. Is it real or faux stone? Any links to where you got it? I am thinking of doing something similar around my screen.

This stone is Real, it's sold at a tile and stone store buy me, called The Tile Shop, here is a link to something similar, I will post a pic of the sample I have.
Link here:http://www.tileshop.com/product/prod...?familyID=1556
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Chad, my media room build is very similiar to yours EXCEPT the FP was already there and that's all i had to work with. For casual viewing there's a 50" flatpanel above the FP and for the real deal, a drop down 106" screen. Here's a pic of the screen wall.

The soffit above is where the PJ screen is hidden.

As to the built ins for speakers....DON"T DO IT! It's just about the worst thing you can do to a box speaker as the bass response becomes bloated and the baffle diffraction of the mids and highs gets destroyed......not to mention you're locked into the dimensions. Position your main speakers on stands to the left and right with room behind and to the sides......your ears will love you for it.

The dual center speakers............get rid of that as soon as possible. Comb filtering from the drive units overlapp at waaaaay beyond the XO freq wavelength is a really bad artifact.

I didn't see a floorplan ,measurement of the space, nor any windows so if light control is that good, a PJ and screen are almost a no brainer here as you've got the biggest hurdles overcome. Personally, i'd scratch the flatscreen if you could and just do the drop down screen IFO the fireplace which keeps the fireplace as the focal point when the screen in tucked away. I only added one as daytime light control in this room is poor so the flatscreen is a must for daytime viewing.

Mayhem:
I considered a drop down screen but the fireplce gets too hot to consider a screen, there is a tripple casement window behind the view of the wall unit, where light even controlled with blinds, would still be an issue.

Here is the center channel I had set-up a few years ago:

That is a Klipsch KV-4 center with two 8" drivers.....
All I can say, even with the center channel split into two RB-35 speakers, it sounds totally unreal....
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Now get to work!

Regards,

RTROSE

LOL, I am, look the time is 12:08 cst as I am typing this and I have to be up in 5 hours to start work at 6:00 am SHARP....

I have to get a new digital camera so I can post some progress pics.....
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Here was my set-up before my flat screen with the large center channel below my Sony 32" XBR tv:
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Old 04-28-2010, 11:11 PM - Thread Starter
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The dual center speakers............get rid of that as soon as possible. Comb filtering from the drive units overlapp at waaaaay beyond the XO freq wavelength is a really bad artifact.

Mayhem: Check out this informative posts at home theater fourums, and doing a-lot of reading about the dual center channel issue:

I should have started off my thread with some more detailed information aobut floorplan, size of room, etc. If I was not so swamped at work, I'd have some time to take some pics of the room and try to post a floorplan layout.

The drop down pj screen could be a valid possibility, but ends up being way more $$$ than I want to spend.

What is everyone using to create a simple drawing with some dimms and able to post it? Hopefully tomorrow eve I will have both up, pics and layout info. Thx.
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