Philips 64PP9751 HDTV - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 12-19-2000, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone have any information on this TV set from Philips? From my unerstanding it is exactly the same as the highly-acclaimed 64PH9905, but without the internal tuner and the Dolby digital sound system - both of which I think most people bypass anyway. The list price (if anyone could find it anywhere) is $7,999.99 (i.e. $2,000 under the list for the 64PH9905). The only place that I have seen anyone able to get this is from the Philips Employee Store. I guess a couple months ago, they would take orders from the Employee Store if it was not available through ANY retail outlets. This is definitely the case with this set, but they are no longer able to take orders for non-employees I'd be very interested in any information that anyone can dig up.

Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
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post #2 of 11 Old 12-20-2000, 07:53 AM
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I have been waiting for the exact same Philips set. I read last August that they were planning to release the 65" HD-ready version sometime in October. However, here in New York, the store which has the 9905 on display told me that they have no shipping date as of yet. Furthermore, Philips does not have the new model featured on their web site.

What information do you have on this new version? Although I have seen the 9905 on display and think that it is the best RPTV I have seen, I have read extremely mixed reviews (mostly on epinions.com)relating to excessive fan noise, its inability to properly display computer signals, and some problems with its zoom function. I also don't like the heavy screen glare. Considering it is the most expensive RPTV on the market (along with the Zenith), I would think that the Philips engineers might have wanted to rectify these problems for the new 65" model. From what I read in the Philips press release last August, all the features will be the same (including 9" CRT) with the exception of the HDTV-integrated feature. I wonder if that means all the negative aspects as well.

Any further information would be appreciated. I'm on the verge of buying the new 65" Sony 16:9, but I want to hold out for the Philips to see whether the new model is a reality. Please keep in contact to let me know if you find anything further.

Thanks,

James
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post #3 of 11 Old 12-20-2000, 10:33 AM
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Proactive Electronics has the older Philips model going for $7285

Michael
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post #4 of 11 Old 12-20-2000, 11:02 AM
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Michael,

Do you have the 9905? The display model I saw was at J&R Music World and I have always regarded it as the one to beat. However, like I indicated, the problems associated with the set have been documented extensively. Yet e-town.com, which seems to be a very highly respected site, has honored it as the best television of 2000. With all this conflicting information, I'm still undecided. There seem to be very few people, if any, on these forum who are owners of the 9905.

Is 9" CRT dramatically different than 7". Does it provide brighter colors, deeper blacks, etc.?

Is Proactive electronics in Brooklyn? Maybe they have a shipping date for the 64pp9751. I'll check them out.

The Sony is only $5100 at Apt Electronics and it looks great to my eyes (plus I have a preference for the Sony brand).

James
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post #5 of 11 Old 12-20-2000, 12:21 PM
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James,

No I do not own the Philips ( I am now looking into digital front projectors)...but as you have...I have demo-ed it in a number of local retailers...and I agree its the best I have seen. My I.S.F. tech is Gary Merson...so I value his opinion greatly...so I would give that e-town review, written by him, alot of weight. He really knows his stuff! If you purchase this unit and live in the N.Y. City area...I would highly recommend having him calibrate and optimize the unit (after a initial break-in period)...you might want to call him and ask him directly of your concerns.

If your video display choice is a Rear Projection CRT High Definition unit then definitely go with 9-inch CRTs. 9-inch CRTs make a significant difference in picture resolution...I believe J&R has 7 inch CRT HDTV also on display alongside that Philips...your own eyes will see a significant difference...and these are on units that have not been calibrated.

J&R usually will meet competitive prices...so if you print out the page with the price I stated...they might meet or beat it...the page is on...
http://www.proactiveelectronics.com/...cktrade=359248

Also check out:
http://www.digitalconnection.com/Hom...r/64PH9905.htm

Now if your video display budget is in the $6,000 dollar neighborhood and you are setting up a home theater...you may want to investigate some digital front projectors...the Sony VP-VW10HT is one example...which can be had for $5500...another $500 or so for the screen...and you can have a 100 inch display. Just a thought.


Michael

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post #6 of 11 Old 12-20-2000, 12:36 PM
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James,

If you have any interest in digital front projection...check out this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/003742.html

Michael
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post #7 of 11 Old 12-20-2000, 01:02 PM
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Michael,

Thanks for your response. You may be interested to know that I just finished packing up the 10HT this morning and sending it back to the vendor (MVS). After a week of giving it a trial run in my one bedroom apartment, I have to say that the only thing that impressed me was the screen size. Granted, I never even attempted to calibrate it. But my overall impression was that, notwithstanding calibration, the 10HT probably only performs well with top-notch and very colorful DVDs. Toy Story 2 is brilliant, Scarface and Gladiator are not. I'm pretty much a novice videophile, and I didn't think I would be too particular about black levels, but the black levels were really grey. While I definitely valued the "immersive" cinematic experience of having an eight foot wide screen - and while I certainly plan on having a dedicated HT in the future when Sony releases its GLV technology, I reasoned (with the help of my wife) that my apartment isn't the appropriate venue for front projection.

Also, as it turns out, the projector they sent me was a lemon. The lamp kept turning off sporadically on its own and there was a strange flickering. I was already anxious about the reported widespread out-of-the-box defects and high continued maintenance costs associated with the 10HT. Having lived through it for a week, I'm ready to focus again on getting the perfect RPTV, so I can watch movies and regular TV all on one unit, while maintaining bright, consistent picture quality without all the hassle and anxiety about dead pixels, broken lamps and dust globs, etc. Thus, the Philips 64".

I appreciate your comments and assistance. Let me know if you find out anything further about the new Philips in the future. My email is JFreeman80@hotmail.com, in the event you want to communicate directly.

Sincerely,
James
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post #8 of 11 Old 12-20-2000, 09:35 PM
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James,

That 65 inch Sony has 7 inch CRTs. Widescreen review has a review on the KP-65XBR10W in the issue #45.
I would go with the Philips....just on the fact of getting 9 inch CRTs.
Did you see Gary Merson's review on the older Philips on E-Town?
http://www.etown.com/categories/prod...productID=6636

If the new model comes in with at least the same performance as the older model at $3K less...in my opinion, its the better choice.

Michael
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post #9 of 11 Old 12-24-2000, 08:25 AM
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Ordered a 9905 from Philips' employee's store last June after calling several stores listed on their website as dealers; no one had the set. Got it at about 1/3 off list, before tax and shipping was added. I'd spent a very long time studying various technologies, including the 10HT and the D-ILAs. I'd say 9-in. tubes are superior to 7-in CRTs, although there's a strong push from marketing folks these days to sell 4x3s with 7-in. CRTs that can display HDTV between black bars on the screen.

Regarding points raised about 9905 problems. If anyone still has a model with fans that are too noisy, they can find a solution at: http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/009217.html
This involves replacement fans. I've not heard whether folks have solved the slight jitter present with some video games. I haven't tinkered much with computer inputs, but did successfully feed in a Windows VGA signal. Others have used computers I've read here, although my understanding is that is limited to 600x800. Suppose the HD inputs could accept the computer equivalent of a 1080ix1920 HDTV signal, although it wouldn't be at that literal resolution. As the etown.com review points out, the transparent (not translucent) safety screen can be removed to cut glare, although I want mine in place because I don't want dust and grime to start filling up the 0.5mm-pitch lenticular screen rib valleys that would be exposed to NYC's pure air. I simply turn off reflecting lights if I want to concentrate on TV viewing.

As I've been commenting since June, NTSC and HDTV viewing is extraordinarly good, which I accomplish entirely from Time Warner's digital TV hookup (plus DVDs). My current interest is trying to find out how high the fidelity is of signals being sent out. For example: http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/009227.html
But there doesn't seem to be a great deal of knowledge available. The thrust of some comments on the web seems to be a typical HDTV signal 'only' has about 1,200 horizontal resolution, which I take to mean across the full width of my 9905's 55-in.-wide screen (not per picture height). If that's true, it looks super, but there still would a good bit of bandwidth (and 9905 capability) left for a significantly sharper picture.

--John



[This message has been edited by John Mason (edited 12-24-2000).]
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post #10 of 11 Old 12-26-2000, 05:06 PM
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John,

Why did you opt for the 9905 over the 10HT? Were there any other RPTVs you considered? Are you happy with the 9905? I just sent my 10HT back and am anxiously awaiting release of the 9751, the follow-up.

Best regards,
James
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post #11 of 11 Old 12-27-2000, 05:45 AM
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James,
It's been a while, but having to be put on a waiting list at the time for a 10HT was one reason. Also, I'd had a 7-ft. FPTV for 25+ years and was tired of a screen dominating the apt. Yes, the 339-lb. 55+-in-wide 9905 also dominates. At http://www.thebigpicturedvd.com/cgi-bin/vw10ht.cgi there's enough complaints to make anyone reconsider, although of course the satisfied users aren't writing in. Mediocre black levels, dust accumulation, visible malfunctioning pixel elements, having to acquire and install a screen plus an HDTV tuner/converter...etc.

Then I spotted the 9905 etown.com review, which looked very favorable. Yes, I've been quite satisfied with the Philips unit. As I've been discovering on the web recently, what's being sent out as HDTV these days is apparently far less resolution than the 9905 is capable of displaying. Philips is now offering replacement fans for the somewhat noisy ones in 9905s, and you'd think they'd be using the quiet ones in their latest RPTVs. Also, I'm still awaiting modules supposedly ordered to fix an apparent malfunction (sync loss with a progressive DVD input). Also, at a 500W power use, and with Con Ed charging $0.16/kwh, be prepared for whopping utility bills if you leave such an RPTV on for long periods.

--John


[This message has been edited by John Mason (edited 12-27-2000).]
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