How are LCD TVs? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 12-25-2000, 01:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi, a lot of you are talking about normal rear projection TVs, but I'm considering an LCD projection TV. How's are LCD TVs compared to other types?

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post #2 of 16 Old 12-26-2000, 10:26 PM
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I saw the Samsung 40" tabletop 16:9 widescreen model at my local dealer a little while back. The picture quality was fairly decent, but sitting close (4-6'), the screen door effect was quite prominent. I am not a videophile by any means, but I knew when I first saw the set that it was LCD simply because of this effect. Take a look for yourself. I imagine sitting 10' away from this set would essentially hide the effect, however. I would personally look more seriously at this TV, but the price seemed a bit high (around $3k USD, if I remember correctly).

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post #3 of 16 Old 12-27-2000, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Goi:
I'm tempted to go larger to the realm of 50+ inches though.
IMHO, stay away from the LCD sets at the same time. I have been impressed with the Toshiba, Pioneer Elite, and Panasonic 16:9 sets. I am quite sure there are other sets out there that I have not seen that are equally as good.

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post #4 of 16 Old 12-27-2000, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Unfortunately, we have different models over here because our standard format is PAL rather than NTSC. The Pioneer Elite series doesn't even exist here.

Anyway, what should I look out for? I'm going to get a progressive scan DVD player, and from what I've read I need a progressive scan TV too to enjoy the benefits. However, the features/specs list of the products don't always state this. How do I know if a TV supports progressive scanning?
I've read some TVs actually do line doubling by themselves.

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post #5 of 16 Old 12-27-2000, 08:33 PM
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All LCD TVs are not the same. The 40" Samsung referred to earlier employs a Transmissive LCD, where the light passes through the chip. However, this spring Samsung is coming out with two RP HDTVs in which a Reflective LCD chip is used with significantly greater efficiency and resolution. They're called fLCDs sets. Specifically, they are the Samsung HLK 43" fLCD HDTV and the Samsung HLK 50" fLCD HDTV. If their picture is as sharp as expected, they will have a lot of advantages. They're all digital sets (except for an inexpensive "light bulb"). They will have a native resolution of 720 progressive, a small footprint and are very light in weight (under a hundred pounds). They have computer connections and can be used just as easily as a giant computer monitor for gaming and surfing as they can as an HDTV. They were briefly introduced to the American market in 2000 but were withdrawn for further improvements. I've been waiting to see them for about a year. They may be worth the wait. They're advertised at half the cost of the DLP (digital light projection) chip HDTVs. You can see the specs on these new Samsung sets at the Digital Connections web site.

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post #6 of 16 Old 12-27-2000, 10:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmmn, weird that you mention it, but I'm considering a Samsung model too, however its the 43" model. I haven't really looked at it yet, but my dad did and he was pretty impressed, considering the price(around $3K USD too).
I'm tempted to go larger to the realm of 50+ inches though.

Are there better RPTVs at this price range/size? What is this "screen door effect" that you talk about?

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post #7 of 16 Old 12-27-2000, 10:55 PM
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The "Screen Door" effect is being able to SEE the grid pattern of the LCD.

When blown-up to large screen size you can see each pixel and the space separating it from it's neighbor.

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post #8 of 16 Old 12-27-2000, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by M.Hat:
They're called fLCDs sets. Specifically, they are the Samsung HLK 43" fLCD HDTV and the Samsung HLK 50" fLCD HDTV. If their picture is as sharp as expected, they will have a lot of advantages.
I presume these were the sets listed on Samsung's website a little while back? The prices on these seemed astronomical compared to conventional CRT sets. If I recall, the 50" had a listed MSRP of around $7500 USD? One can buy a lot of set for that kind of money in today's market!

Quote:

They're all digital sets (except for an inexpensive "light bulb").
Are you sure about the inexpensive part? Wouldn't this bulb need to be something similar to a projector bulb as far as light output goes? Those are expensive.

I am currently shopping around getting a feel for what's out there, but if the specs pan out and the price is a little more realistic, I will definitely take a serious look once they are available. I like the weight factor as well as them being tabletop models.

Mike.
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post #9 of 16 Old 12-28-2000, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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My dilemna now is that there is a lack of HDTVs around here, because there's only 1 cable company and 1 broadcast company here, and neither provides digital TV services, hence there is no market for HDTVs. The Samsung LCD TV I mentioned is the only "HDTV/digital TV ready" TV, and is one of the only, if not THE only 16:9 TV around here, and I really want a 16:9 TV to watch letterboxed DVDs. I guess I'll wait for the next gen Tantus LCD TVs to arrive...

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post #10 of 16 Old 12-28-2000, 11:09 AM
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To connect a progressive scan DVD player, your TV will need Y, Pb, Pr inputs supporting 480P.
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post #11 of 16 Old 12-28-2000, 01:22 PM
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I would stay away from samsung if I were you.

To cut a long story short, I bought Samsung Tantus 40 inch from consumer direct. The TV had burnt pixels right out of the box so called samsung tech support on advice of consumer direct rep.

That was 4 months ago. They sent their authorised service centre tech (who had never seen this model before - according to his own admittance) and each time he touched it, he screwed something else up.

So I have been calling Samsung tech support at least once a week and their service centre once a week, but still no resolution. My TV is lying dead right now and I am so disguested with this whole episode and the way these guys treat you when something goes wrong to their products that I am seriously thinking of writing off my investment as a bad decision I made when I purchased this TV.

I am not inviting any flames, just stating my experience with Samsung. If someone has better experience dealing with them, then they should consider themselves lucky.

Samsung products - never again !!!
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post #12 of 16 Old 12-28-2000, 05:13 PM
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for mikef:

Yes, these are the same Samsung sets you referred to; and yes, they would be a bit expensive compared to CRT sets--that's if the list price holds. However somewhere on this forum I believe someone reported pre-ordering one for under $4,000 and I've seen lower prices advertised at on-line discounters.

And yes, its light source is something more than just a "Light bulb". It is reported to cost $200, which might seem expensive at first glance. But how much does a CRT cost? Moreover, the "bulb" is rated for 8 to 12,000 hours, which makes it quite low cost/hour compared to some other light sources.

By the way, I'm not trying to sell these fLCD sets to anyone. I'm merely interested in them because if they perform well, then, with all their digial-chip advantages, they have all the features I want in my HT display. (I feel those heavy RPTV HD CRT sets are shortly going to go the way of the dinosaurs, though I might have to go for a direct view myself to carry me over until the chip-based systems come down a bit in price.)

More information on the 50 inch fLCD HDTV can be had at

http://www.digitalconnection.com/Hom...er/hlk506w.htm

Ranj: Your experience with that 40 inch set is indeed awful. You should take whatever steps are necessary to get the problem corrected ASAP. Samsung is a large multi-national corporation and is known to stand by their products, some of which are world-beaters. You should raise a real ruckus and get that defective set replaced. For sure your shouldn't just swallow the loss. Document everything you've done or will do to get the problem rectified and then, if you receive no satisfaction, you have a right to take them to court and get your money back. Best of luck.


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post #13 of 16 Old 12-28-2000, 05:28 PM
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for mikef:

Yes, these are the same Samsung sets you referred to; and yes, they would be a bit expensive compared to CRT sets--that's if the list price holds. However somewhere on this forum I believe someone reported pre-ordering one for under $4,000 and I've seen lower prices advertised at on-line discounters.

You're right, its light source is something more than just a "Light bulb". It is reported to cost $200, which might seem expensive at first glance. But how much does a CRT cost when it goes? Moreover, the "bulb" is rated for 8 to 12,000 hours, which makes it quite low cost/hour compared to some other light sources. (Talk to the JVC DLA projector people who pay 75 cents an hour for their light sources.)

By the way, I'm not trying to sell these fLCD sets to anyone. I'm merely interested in them because if they perform well, then, with all their digial-chip advantages, they have all the features I want in my HT display. (I feel those heavy RPTV HD CRT sets are shortly going to go the way of the dinosaurs, though I might have to go for a direct view myself to carry me over until the chip-based systems come down a bit in price.)

More information on the 50 inch fLCD HDTV can be had at

http://www.digitalconnection.com/Hom...er/hlk506w.htm

Ranj: Your experience with that 40 inch set is indeed awful. You should take whatever steps are necessary to get the problem corrected ASAP. Samsung is a large multi-national corporation and is known to stand by their products, some of which are world-beaters. You should raise a real ruckus and get that defective set replaced. For sure your shouldn't just
swallow the loss. Document everything you've done or will do to get the problem rectified and then, if you receive no satisfaction, you have a right to take them to court and get your money back. Best of luck.

Don
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post #14 of 16 Old 12-28-2000, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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M.Hat, is the link you just provided the new sets or the old/current Samsung LCD sets? If they are new, do they look the same as the old/current Tantus sets? I ask because I just saw a set that looks exactly like the picture that's in the link you provided.

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post #15 of 16 Old 12-28-2000, 08:51 PM
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Hi Goi. The link to Digital Connections shows the "New" set (50 inch version) that's scheduled to re-emerge sometime this spring--after having been tweaked up. The older set you saw is, I believe, a Samsung 40 inch LCD set that uses the older transmissive chip. It has roughly the same shape (small footprint) as the new ones, if I remember correctly. However, be warned, it's possible I could be wrong. I'm not an expert, merely an interested, prospective customer.

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post #16 of 16 Old 12-28-2000, 08:53 PM
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Hi Goi. The link to Digital Connections shows the "New" set (50 inch version) that's scheduled to re-emerge sometime this spring--after having been tweaked up. The older set you saw is, I believe, a Samsung 40 inch LCD set that uses the older transmissive chip. It has roughly the same shape (small footprint) as the new ones, if I remember correctly. However, be warned, it's possible I could be wrong. I'm not an expert, merely an interested, prospective customer.

Don
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