basementdweller1's "subbin' it out" basement theater & more build - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 128 Old 01-24-2012, 01:33 PM
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Final inspection will require carpet, otherwise yeah the solution would be fairly simple. :-)

PS: In other news all next week is the electrical rough in. Should have tons of stuff going on, 35-ish can lights + boxes for hanging pendants, scones, storage room & workshop lights, lights in the pantry, closets and more all going in + outlets, and more outlets + the lutron grafik eye system, and then low voltage. High voltage will all be in metal conduit. Should be cool to see. Hope to get final rough framing corrections and draft stopping down within a week after that to be ready for rough inspection.

Holy light bulb Batman! That is a ton. Should be a big transformation.
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post #62 of 128 Old 01-24-2012, 01:42 PM
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Carpet without the riser.... and have riser not attached and carpeted separately. Set riser in place on top of carpet after the fact as previously suggested.
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post #63 of 128 Old 01-24-2012, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Carpet without the riser.... and have riser not attached and carpeted separately. Set riser in place on top of carpet after the fact as previously suggested.

How is that much different than putting the lower level of the riser in now, carpeting it, and then putting in the second level later?. My design is kinda unique in that the riser is asymmetric in the room, in intend to only put in 3 chairs (around 95-100" wide) but run the riser a full 12' wide to the wall, leaving a 3.5' walkway area, ON THE RISER, along the wall. A problem, one I was willing to accept is that on the riser I would have a ceiling height of 6'5 but now if I do the "layered" riser that walkway as well as a 2' space in front of the higher riser would have a ceiling height of 7' and be much more comfortable.

I guess it comes down to should I make the whole 12x6 thing 14" tall and have to do it all after the final permit inspection, or create a layered riser where walkways and spaces around the seats actually meet code and have more ceiling height...

Bottom line is one way or another I have decided to use "normal" theater seats and not lock myself into the one brand that sells lower-midlevel quality seats that have a built in height addition, at the expense of comfort.
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post #64 of 128 Old 01-25-2012, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Well my inspector came through, he will allow a ceiling height of 6'4" or greater on the riser. Don't ask me where that number is coming from as I sure don't see it on the code but I am sure not complaining. The last few days of riser crisis brought me to this final plan though...

Center part of the riser (centered with screen and the area for the seats) is 8.5' long by 6' deep and 14" tall. It will have a step at the front left corner. On the entire right side of the riser will be a riser extension to the wall, 3' long by 6' deep and 7" tall. It will not require a step either onto it or onto the higher riser area. The lower riser area acts as a 1) walkway 2) area to run electrical into the riser without cutting the concrete and 3) a place to put a wall table holding my Harmony remote charger stand and one of my two RF Harmony extenders.

It gets built tomorrow morning. Hope to have pics for you on Sunday and then next week is electrical rough, should be a full 5 day work week for the guys I hired.

Lots for me to do in the 1 1/2 I have free before then including...

1. Planning hanging light location over future table.
2. Planning exact location of side and rear surround speakers.
3. Planning exact location of PJ and adding bracing.
4. Testing all the CAT6 and HDMI cables from Monoprice to verify they work.
5. Foil taping exposed duct seems.
6. Covering HVAC ductwork.
7. Covering bathtub for security.
8. Planning exact location of 2 LED wall tvs.

Fun, fun. The basement should look very different just over a week from now.
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post #65 of 128 Old 01-26-2012, 06:17 AM
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Don't ask me where that number is coming from as I sure don't see it on the code but I am sure not complaining.

I get the impression Inspectors can kind allow or dis-allow anything they want. Just ask BritInVA about the inspector that approved a rough-in and then came back later for a final inspection and DIS-approved the rough-in. Showing him the rough-in approval with his own signature on it didn't seem to make much difference.

I found that doing what they want is a lot easier than arguing with them over some minutiae in the code. Yeah, it's a PIA to redo stuff, but you're approved and have covered your butt.

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post #66 of 128 Old 01-26-2012, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Attachment 235397

Poor camera phone pic better to come on Sunday. Riser is done, 12x6 two levels. The higher is 14" and 8.5x6. Ply top not on that is just sitting loose for ladders and electric goes in next week. I'll run edges and trim around nose in pine and stain, top surfaces will be carpet. I'll stuff it with insulation and already have 30 lb roofer felt on the bottom.
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post #67 of 128 Old 01-31-2012, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Riser shots coming later I promise! That said rough electrical has begun, a have a smaller contractor working it and so progress isn't super zippy, but I think it should be done by Saturday, perhaps Monday or Tuesday next week at the latest. Cans/Switches/Boxes are up and currently they are working the conduit.

In theater news... I ordered an Epson 8700UB. I wanted the black levels it produces but just couldn't pull the trigger on the price of a 5010 or 6010. Coming with a free lamp it should work well for me for at least several years at which point I think for a similar price I can upgrade to a PJ brighter than the sun with stellar 3D brightness and a more mature 3D material ecosystem. Or so I tell myself. ;-)

I put in bracing for both LED flat screens and put in nice bracing for the PJ, it will be ceiling mounted dead center at just a shade less than 17' back. The screen will be either a 115" or 120" diagonal Center Stage XD from SeymourAV (1.2 gain), I'll decide once drywall is up and I project the screen on the wall. For riser issues I think a 126" diagonal will be too low on the wall for the 2nd row viewing position so it rules that one out.
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post #68 of 128 Old 01-31-2012, 05:25 PM
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Great thread. Do you mind sharing your budget for the subcontractors? I am in the very early planning stages to do the same as you are doing.
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post #69 of 128 Old 01-31-2012, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basementdweller1 View Post

Riser shots coming later I promise! That said rough electrical has begun, a have a smaller contractor working it and so progress isn't super zippy, but I think it should be done by Saturday, perhaps Monday or Tuesday next week at the latest. Cans/Switches/Boxes are up and currently they are working the conduit.

In theater news... I ordered an Epson 8700UB. I wanted the black levels it produces but just couldn't pull the trigger on the price of a 5010 or 6010. Coming with a free lamp it should work well for me for at least several years at which point I think for a similar price I can upgrade to a PJ brighter than the sun with stellar 3D brightness and a more mature 3D material ecosystem. Or so I tell myself. ;-)

I put in bracing for both LED flat screens and put in nice bracing for the PJ, it will be ceiling mounted dead center at just a shade less than 17' back. The screen will be either a 115" or 120" diagonal Center Stage XD from SeymourAV (1.2 gain), I'll decide once drywall is up and I project the screen on the wall. For riser issues I think a 126" diagonal will be too low on the wall for the 2nd row viewing position so it rules that one out.

The 8700 is a solid choice. Ultra black levels and great warranty. I think you will be very happy with that purchase. How far back from the screen will you be sitting from your sweet spot?
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post #70 of 128 Old 02-01-2012, 06:09 AM - Thread Starter
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The 8700 is a solid choice. Ultra black levels and great warranty. I think you will be very happy with that purchase. How far back from the screen will you be sitting from your sweet spot?

Bit worried my sweet spot is really between the rows. I think the best seat in the house is the back row with eyes about 15'-15.5' back with the front row being only 9'-9.5' away which is too close to be honest with the size screen I want. According to many calculations my idea on screen sizes (115-120" diagonal) would be THX standard at about 12.5-13'. Also the Center Stage XD material has a weave you can pick out on white areas from around 9' but having viewed a friends same screen from that distance I didn't find it distracting although if looking for it I could see it. Oh well, I want 2 rows to get 6 chair seating and this is the only way. The kids will sit up front.

I have a bid in today on 3 Def Tech UIW RLS II in walls new from Ebay, we shall see if I get them, then I would only need to pick a sub.
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post #71 of 128 Old 02-01-2012, 06:52 AM
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Bit worried my sweet spot is really between the rows. I think the best seat in the house is the back row with eyes about 15'-15.5' back with the front row being only 9'-9.5' away which is too close to be honest with the size screen I want. According to many calculations my idea on screen sizes (115-120" diagonal) would be THX standard at about 12.5-13'. Also the Center Stage XD material has a weave you can pick out on white areas from around 9' but having viewed a friends same screen from that distance I didn't find it distracting although if looking for it I could see it. Oh well, I want 2 rows to get 6 chair seating and this is the only way. The kids will sit up front.

I have a bid in today on 3 Def Tech UIW RLS II in walls new from Ebay, we shall see if I get them, then I would only need to pick a sub.

I think you are spot on waiting to get the projector and throw it on some drywall first before you buy the screen. I did the same thing and am very happy with 125" 16:9 from just a little over 11' away. I thought it might be too much screen from that distance, but am really happy with it. My first screen was 100" from about 11.5' away and it was a little lacking. You are doing it right though, and 115-120" 16:9 will feel massive if you have never owned a projector before. Your family will love it.

Good luck with the DefTech bid, I am loving mine, you will love having the audio coming right at you behind the speakers and the Deftech's are great for home theater usage. I have owned speakers that cost considerable more that are not as solid as the Deftech's for home theater.

As for sub, my only advice is don't underscope. My new room is much bigger than the old room, and I am not really happy with either of my subs right now and have already determined my next project will be a DIY sub build to get something more robust (something equivalent to 1-2 HSU VTF-15H subs, or a couple Epik Empire subs. It is not just about making the walls shake (and many people think this equates to "good bass". "Good bass" to me means something that is accurate and tight.

Excited to see your updated pics..
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post #72 of 128 Old 02-01-2012, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I think you are spot on waiting to get the projector and throw it on some drywall first before you buy the screen. I did the same thing and am very happy with 125" 16:9 from just a little over 11' away. I thought it might be too much screen from that distance, but am really happy with it. My first screen was 100" from about 11.5' away and it was a little lacking. You are doing it right though, and 115-120" 16:9 will feel massive if you have never owned a projector before. Your family will love it.

Good luck with the DefTech bid, I am loving mine, you will love having the audio coming right at you behind the speakers and the Deftech's are great for home theater usage. I have owned speakers that cost considerable more that are not as solid as the Deftech's for home theater.

As for sub, my only advice is don't underscope. My new room is much bigger than the old room, and I am not really happy with either of my subs right now and have already determined my next project will be a DIY sub build to get something more robust (something equivalent to 1-2 HSU VTF-15H subs, or a couple Epik Empire subs. It is not just about making the walls shake (and many people think this equates to "good bass". "Good bass" to me means something that is accurate and tight.

Excited to see your updated pics..

Buying a sub is a mystery for me. I have a Paradigm Cinema series system upstairs with a sub that back in the day was recommended to "match" that series from Paradigm. It all sounds good to my tin ears but with kids and a picky wife we never approach reference level anything. I want to be able to run the basement theater system louder, at least someday, and have it sound good. Right now the plan is 3 Def Tech UIW RLS II L/C/R in walls with 4 Orb Audio Mod 1 surrounds. No idea on the sub. The theater space is 15' x 20' but totally open on one side to an additional 10'x20' area with yet more big spaces to another huge living room and a 4' long hallway to yet another area. Not sonically ideal by any stretch and I don't know how that plays into subwoofer sizing. I guess I was looking at the Supercubes from Paradigm but I don't know where to start.

I'd be posting nice pictures of the riser up close but my electrician has camped out all his tools on top for the week so I'm waiting for that to clear out. I'll also post pictures of the cans/switches etc. but that changes daily so I'm waiting for the final rough to finish. I should get some nice pictures of the concrete cut to the bar island (about a 3' cut for conduit) too.
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post #73 of 128 Old 02-01-2012, 07:43 AM
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Buying a sub is a mystery for me. I have a Paradigm Cinema series system upstairs with a sub that back in the day was recommended to "match" that series from Paradigm. It all sounds good to my tin ears but with kids and a picky wife we never approach reference level anything. I want to be able to run the basement theater system louder, at least someday, and have it sound good. Right now the plan is 3 Def Tech UIW RLS II L/C/R in walls with 4 Orb Audio Mod 1 surrounds. No idea on the sub. The theater space is 15' x 20' but totally open on one side to an additional 10'x20' area with yet more big spaces to another huge living room and a 4' long hallway to yet another area. Not sonically ideal by any stretch and I don't know how that plays into subwoofer sizing. I guess I was looking at the Supercubes from Paradigm but I don't know where to start.

I'd be posting nice pictures of the riser up close but my electrician has camped out all his tools on top for the week so I'm waiting for that to clear out. I'll also post pictures of the cans/switches etc. but that changes daily so I'm waiting for the final rough to finish. I should get some nice pictures of the concrete cut to the bar island (about a 3' cut for conduit) too.

Don't want to derail your thread and Paradigm makes some great speakers, but there is no "matching" with speakers and sub So it makes it easier and opens up more options. I would recommend looking at the internet direct companies that are very well respected. Like HSU, SVS, Epik, Outlaw, Rythmik. You will get more for your money vs the Paradigm, Deftech, Klipsch, etc branded subs. I don't know your budget, but you can always start with one sub and add a matching one down the road.

I really like this site for information:
http://www.data-bass.com/home

Rici is well respected around these parts and he has lots of reviews. You can find measurements here:
http://www.data-bass.com/systems

You are going to get lots of opinions on subs in the dedicated forum, but the ones I mentioned above are all very solid companies with some great offerings.

Like I said, I did not size my subwoofer situation correctly and really wish I would have just ponied up for something like an HSU VTF-15H. My wife would most likely disagree though
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post #74 of 128 Old 02-01-2012, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again. Good news is the only thing left to buy for speakers is the sub, I just won an auction for my 3 front Def Tech in walls. I'll definitely look at the sub links you gave and I'm open to anything. I have a post asking some questions in the Sub section so we shall see. I would like to keep the budget reasonable, not sure what that means for my size room but hoping for sub (pardon the pun) $750, $500 would be better.

Here is a quick sub question... some of these reviews talk about the cubic footage of the room area it is appropriate for which is really cool. My theater area is 2400 cubic sq ft. but it opens to the bar area (no wall at all the whole length of the left side of the theater) which is another 1750 cubic sq. ft. So do I need to combine the totals since it is open or can I simply base it around the theater space? PS: Some of this is for naught because again I don't know if high volumes or bass will meet the WAF in my house.
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post #75 of 128 Old 02-01-2012, 08:55 AM
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Thanks again. Good news is the only thing left to buy for speakers is the sub, I just won an auction for my 3 front Def Tech in walls. I'll definitely look at the sub links you gave and I'm open to anything. I have a post asking some questions in the Sub section so we shall see. I would like to keep the budget reasonable, not sure what that means for my size room but hoping for sub (pardon the pun) $750, $500 would be better.

Here is a quick sub question... some of these reviews talk about the cubic footage of the room area it is appropriate for which is really cool. My theater area is 2400 cubic sq ft. but it opens to the bar area (no wall at all the whole length of the left side of the theater) which is another 1750 cubic sq. ft. So do I need to combine the totals since it is open or can I simply base it around the theater space? PS: Some of this is for naught because again I don't know if high volumes or bass will meet the WAF in my house.

Unfortunately sound travels outside the theater I am in the same boat in my large space as well with over 5000 cubic ft of space when you combine the open floor plan playroom and familyroom/bar. My A2-300 alone used to be fine with my smaller room in my last house, but even two comparable subs are coming up short for me.

I think you will have some options in your price range. The Outlaw Audio LFM-1-EX was just on sale for $549 shipped (sale just ended) and that may be a good start for you. But with your space you may want to consider ponying up for an HSU 15H, or something like an Epik Empire.

I am estimating that I will need two pretty robust 15" subs in my room and should be able to go DIY and spend about $1K. Otherwise I am looking at close $1800, and I don't see that happening after spending so much to get the basement done.

Oh, and congrats on the speakers! I am happy for you.
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post #76 of 128 Old 02-01-2012, 09:04 AM
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As far as bass goes, this is where I have learned alot. There is a big difference between a cheap 12" driver that can "shake the room" and a more expensive accurate 12" driver. It can shake the room (if you want it to) but the bass will be more tight and accurate and not nearly as distorted.
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post #77 of 128 Old 02-04-2012, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Lots of working being done, 6 days of nonstop electrical rough, thankfully not me doing it as I'm fighting a cold and well it sure doesn't look easy. Pretty happy with how it's turning out but I'm waiting for it to be done for pictures, that will be Monday or Tuesday.

That said here is a quick phone pic of the concrete cut for electrical to run to my bar island...
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post #78 of 128 Old 02-20-2012, 05:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Twas the night before insulating and all through the theater...





Rough inspection of Framing, HVAC, Plumbing and Electrical has all passed! The theater has 8 can lights on each side, 3 eyeballs at the front for the screen, wired for 7.1 and has the riser in placed and insulated minus two layers of 3/4 ply I have to add. In the first picture upper left you can see the bracing for the projector as well as the electrical for the PJ which is a power bridge in conduit running to the av closet to patch to the power conditioner.

The basement as a whole has 35 can lights, 4 hanging fixtures, 3 sconces, and 10 various ceiling lights. The bar area is wired with whips for in cabinet lights, under cabinets lights, and the concrete has conduit running to the free bar island for electrical including rope lighting. Really super happy with how it turned out.

Today the entire basement exterior walls are getting faced R-13 batts and the entire ceiling area in the theater is getting R-19.

Let me go get some more pics of the AV closet...
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post #79 of 128 Old 02-20-2012, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is the AV closet, the wires need to be looped don't ya think? ;-)



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post #80 of 128 Old 02-20-2012, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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And just like that insulation Christmas has come! R-13 in all exterior walls and a mix of ROXUL and R-19/R-13 in the theater ceiling area. I'll have it inspected this week and likely will drywall within 10-14 days.





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post #81 of 128 Old 02-20-2012, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
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And just like that insulation Christmas has come! R-13 in all exterior walls and a mix of ROXUL and R-19/R-13 in the theater ceiling area. I'll have it inspected this week and likely will drywall within 10-14 days.

Your flying! Stuffing insulation in the ceiling was one of he least favorite things to do .

Keep it up!
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post #82 of 128 Old 02-21-2012, 10:19 AM
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We have a similar layout so I've been stalking your basement progress, but still saving $$'s in order to start ours.

I have a question regarding the narrow sections of plywood being used at the top of the wall framing to which the ceiling framing is nailed to. What was the puropse of that?
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post #83 of 128 Old 02-21-2012, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Majority of plywood sections you see are soffits, the framer also used plywood above the "dropped" (again it will be drywall) ceiling in the theater space (due to all the duct work) to act as the draftstop preventing fire traveling up a stud cavity and then displacing horizontally into the ceiling space, this is code but could have been accomplished other ways, plywood was quick and easy.
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post #84 of 128 Old 03-13-2012, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Just a quick update, just over a week ago all the drywall was hung and what has been a long process of mudding and taping has begun. Today is the 6th day that mudding and taping has been ongoing (by a single person, 8 hours a day) and I think the end is in sight. I think some final sanding will be started today and perhaps a bit of priming in certain areas of the basement. I really hope it is all primed by Thursday or Friday because next Monday I have my carpenter coming back to build the bar, bar island, install doors, and an extensive amount of trim. The drywall needs to be ready. You can be sure I'll put the pictures up as soon as the prime is on.

That said I have a question! Obviously with all the drywall work the concrete floor is an absolute mess of drywall dust and joint compound. I fully intend to scrape and wet/dry vac the dust up but on a quick attempt that doesn't get it all up, just smooth. There always remains a slight coating of white powder or dust that just stubbornly adheres to the concrete. Soooo... what do I do? Should I wet mop with water? Use sweeping compound which some say works great while others say can leave the floor oily and stain prone? Or do I just do my best to vacuum it and scrape it smooth, knowing the remaining powder will just be covered over with flooring: tile, wood, and carpet? Thanks!
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post #85 of 128 Old 03-13-2012, 08:08 AM
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Rent a steam cleaner like for carpets it is the fastest way... if you get anal about it with a mop you will be there for days. Steam cleaner will have you done in hours and far cleaner than any other way.
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post #86 of 128 Old 03-13-2012, 11:42 AM
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deck brush and a wet vac should do fine.
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post #87 of 128 Old 03-19-2012, 08:06 AM
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I used a shop vac with an attachment with a squeegee on it. (like a windshield wiper blade). It worked great for that last thin layer of dust. I did not use water!
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post #88 of 128 Old 04-05-2012, 10:08 AM
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Knock, knock...

Anyone home?

Would love to see the progress report.... Or are you already watching movies?

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post #89 of 128 Old 04-18-2012, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I am so sorry guys for no post in over a month! I had vacation and a bunch of other stuff, but guess what... work WAS done. All the drywall is complete and primed, a custom bar has been built complete with stone and all electrical is fully finished ('kept for putting on trims and plates.) The riser is trimmed in pine to match the bar and the half wall on the stair case has a matching pine top plate for a rail. The bathroom has been tiled, floor and tub.

This week has been all about final touches, hitting any drywall damage with spackle and sanding everything and getting ready for paint and staining. Next week the painters come and will stain the entire bar in a dark walnut finish with poly coat and the side walls and oak top trim on the riser will be stained to match. The ceiling will get a flat white, the base moldings and doors will get a semi-gloss white, and the main walls will be 1 color (low sheen eggshell) with 2 accent walls including the screen wall, a specific color with the bathroom and another specific color for the fitness room.

Here come the pictures (but I can't wait to see what it will really look like without the stark white walls)...
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post #90 of 128 Old 04-18-2012, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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