Feedback Needed for Floor Plan Design - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 09-27-2012, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I have had the past year to plan my basement project. Should be able to start in a month or two but now I am doubting my design. I am hoping for some feedback. I want this to simply be a fun room to hang out and entertain friends and family. I want to make the most of what I have on a small budget.

Equipment (So you know what I am working with, not purchased yet but I dont have a sky is the limit budget)
Saymour AV AT DIY 16:9 120 Inch screen ($400-600)
Epson Powerlite 3010 ($1500)
Denon 5.1 ($350-450) - No left wall so 5.1 is really the limit I think
Polk TSI 300 (I have two just need to buy the third for the center $180)
Polk TSI 200 Rears $220/pair (havent found the exact mounting solution yet)
Sub Polk
HDMI 4x4 matrix ($300-400)
Displays Projector and 3 Flat screens (behind bar, Weight room, Bed room)
IR/Controller system not yet identified
Content: BR and Mostly HD cable, Some streaming HD content
Seperate Sterio Receiver with speaker selecter for additional audio zones(wt room, bed room, pool table, bar)

Here is that plan that I hope to execute
BasementPlan.pdf 514k .pdf file

I have two major areas of concern.

1. Is the space between the bar and HT seats too tight. I know it is tight, trying to decide if the space will still be enjoyable or not. I would like there to be enough room for people to be able to get to the bar and swivel their chair to see the projection screen. There will be a TV behind the bar as well. The bar counter top will overhang 10 inches. There will be a little under 34 inches from bar top to back of HT seats. The most common bar chair I found was 18 Inches. Any one have any comments on how tight this will feel??
Bardimensions.pdf 413k .pdf file

2. Will the HT as designed work. The plan is to have a false wall with a 120 inch 16:9 DIY AT screen(14 inches for speakers). Distance from eyes to screen is estimated to be 9.6 ft. Viewing angle 48.9 degrees. Is this too close for a AT screen. Should I scrap the false wall and use a traditional screen?

Image of viewing angle and viewing distance, I understand that this is up close and personal but I have stood equally close to my TV and I think I like the size.
Viewingangle,distance.pdf 418k .pdf file

As designed I have the projector back as far as possible for my room, throw ratio is 1.58. The powerlite throw ratio 1.32-2.15, so I may move the pojector up to 11.5 ft from screen and raise screen up as high as possible so it will be easier to walk in front of the screen. Any limitations to using low end of throw and placing the screen as high as the projection angle allows?
PJ,Viewingangles.pdf 349k .pdf file
3D VIEW of HT.pdf 506k .pdf file
ScreenwallDimensions.pdf 443k .pdf file

Thank you for your thoughts
Please post if you cannot view the images
Attached Files
File Type: pdf BasementPlan.pdf (513.7 KB, 69 views)
File Type: pdf Bardimensions.pdf (412.8 KB, 18 views)
File Type: pdf Viewingangle,distance.pdf (417.6 KB, 8 views)
File Type: pdf PJ,Viewingangles.pdf (348.8 KB, 8 views)
File Type: pdf 3D VIEW of HT.pdf (506.3 KB, 17 views)
File Type: pdf ScreenwallDimensions.pdf (443.0 KB, 6 views)
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post #2 of 11 Old 09-27-2012, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
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A few more things to note, the only walls that are currently framed are the steps and the wall that borders the bath and mechanical room. The bathroom must remain in its current location because it is already preplumbed. The bar needs to remain in that corner if it is to be a wet bar, drain must tie into bathroom drain. The bar contains a sink, under counter fridge, 12 inch cabinet, kegerator so its dimentions are really fixed. I was trying to keep 30 inches behind the bar for comfort. The PJ screen is shifted right because the seats must be shifted to accomedate the 9 ft pool table and playing area.

All drawings were to scale (scale unit = 1 inch)
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post #3 of 11 Old 09-28-2012, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone have any thoughts or opinions? Anything will beat another co-worker telling me to move the stairs.... lol

Thanks for any advice you may be able to provide
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post #4 of 11 Old 09-29-2012, 06:01 AM
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Couple thoughts:
- 120" screen, for me, feels a little big from 9.6' away. I don't suspect you will see moire effect with the Seymour screen from that distance, but make sure you tell them to cut the screen with maximum tilt to reduce potential moire. You should talk to Chris at Seymour and get his thoughts on this size screen from 9.6' away. You can always go with a smaller screen. Say 100-106".

- I know you have your left and right main speakers already purchased, but another option is to sell them and go with in-wall speakers behind an AT screen. This gives you back some space but gives you a clean look with maximum speaker placement.

- Your bar area also takes up a big chunk of real estate. Depending on how important this area is for you, you could always reduce the size by just having a bar on the back wall of the theater with no bar top and seating. Just an option, and obviously very dependent on your usage. Our bar area rarely gets used, but it is nice to have when you need it.

- I am not sure what your concern about raising the screen so high is to walk in front of? IMHO, I would not raise the screen too high. I would go for best screen placement and not be concerned about walking in front of the projector so much. As for the low end of the throw, that is what you want. Consider that projector bulbs get dimmer as you use them and put out less lumens. The shorter the throw, the less lumens you use. That said, the 3010 is a light cannon.... Is 3D important to you, and if so, how important?

- For the surround speakers, I would go in-ceiling vs trying to mount bookshelf speakers from your ceiling.

- Are you putting the equipment to the left of the screen wall?

- Smart idea on the 5.1 Denon. To save some money, this site is an authorized Denon reseller who sells refurbished at big discounts. I would consider this model that has Audyssey MultiEQ XT. Amazing price and has full warranty:
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR1712/DENON-AVR-1712-7.1-A/V-Surround-Receiver/1.html

As far as room layout based on your stated concerns above, I think you did the best you can. Only option to consider would be putting the HT where the pool table is and trying to squeeze the pool table where the HT is now, but you may not have enough room for the pool table, but that would give you more seating and home theater options and make the room feel more open.
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post #5 of 11 Old 09-29-2012, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply ack_bk

I think I will try to contact chris from seymour, I never even thought that would have been an option for some reason great idea. I also was planning on cutting for tilt but did not know that there was varying degrees of tilt available, thanks for that. I may think about decreasing the screen size a little, but I do want it to be BIG from the seats and still be big. from the bar. Beyond the size my biggest concern was the moire effect at close viewing distance.

The In walls could work. I have polk RC65I in wall R, L C and RC60I in ceilings in my family room with a panisonic gt30 65". I am fairly happy with the sound quality, but sound travel into adjacent rooms is pretty extensive. I still need to find a way to insulate the wall cavities. I dont know what would be best,(spray foam, foam board, fiberglass or rockwool insulation). But I was hoping for something better for the HT, maybe I will reconsider and try the RC85I series(8.5 inch woofer). I would be concerned about installing the front in walls, they would be on a cold wall, I am going to insulate the entire foundation with 1" extruded polystyrine foam, this product is flammable and must be covered witha 15 min fire barrier(such as 1/2 inch drywall). So I am tring to picture how I would mount the in walls, would I still need a false wall? Any thoughts there?? The rears I could do in ceiling if I could find a way to insulate so sound would not travel upstairs too bad.

As for the bar, I want to try to keep it if possible, I have drawn up some other options that i can post. All will result in loss of the weight room, so I am trying to avoid that. I want to keep this layout if i can make it work. Trying not to loose the weight room or bar. Also, That is the only place I can put the 9 foot pool table. But I may need to reconsider, that is really why I opened this thread to see if I can proceed with my current plan.

Thanks for the advise on screen height and throw.

3d Is not very important to me at this time. I still have not even set up my family room tv for 3d viewing. Why do you ask? Would you recommend a different projector? The "light cannon" may be good as this is not a dedicated theater and the projector will sometimes be used with low-moderate levels of light.

The equipment will actually go In the unfinished storage room behind the stairs near the structured wiring pannel. The closet is really a result of trying to may a screen look center and in place when it is really scewed to the right due to the space needed to play pool. I was having a hard time picturing the screen shifted to the right in that little outcove. Any other suggestions are very welcome.

Thanks for the denon info

Thanks for taking the time to help me out
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post #6 of 11 Old 10-01-2012, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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An update

The closet to the left of the screen is not for the av rack. I only put that closet there to make the screen feel centered when it is shifted to the right of that outcove. I was planning on putting the AV equipment behind the stairs in the unfinished storage room next to the structured wireing pannel. That would give me the shortest runs for a/v wire. Thoughts?

The only way I may be able to shift the chairs and screen farther left would be if I decrease to a smaller pool table which I am now considering. I would love to be able to walk between the seating and the side wall so people dont need to walk past the screen so much, but now sure if I can make enough room.

I have reworked the plan a little

Basementplan5.pdf 445k .pdf file

I lost the false wall, I plan to install polk RC85I inwalls for R, L, C, and RC80I in ceilings for rears, this will allow me to shift the seats up while still maintaining 10 ft screen to eyes. It also gives me enough room for the bar.

Now I am worried that those 6 inch walls will have a noticable effect on the sound field. Any thoughts? I am also thinking that I could go to 7.1 surround with side and rears in ceiling, would this work?

Now the closet door (if I actually use a door) is accessed from the "stage" I was thinking I could place the sub in there, and maybe some storage(possible av equipment). Do you think it would be better to leave the entire outcove open? I was just trying to make the screen look centered. I also added 6 inch walls to make the space look more clean because I would like to paint around the screen black and I wanted there to be a good transition. (I am really having a hard time finding a color scheme that will be dark enough for the projector and also not look like a dungeon).


Thanks

Jason
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post #7 of 11 Old 10-02-2012, 02:09 PM
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If you can, I would look for speakers that are enclosed vs open baffle:
http://www.cepro.com/article/how_to_prevent_audio_loss_with_in_wall_speaker_systems/

You may need to up your budget to get them, but might be able to save in some other areas. Not that Polk is bad (I have owned numerous Polk speakers) but I do recommend enclosed vs open baffle in-wall speakers.

You should be okay with in-ceiling surrounds, not quite as ideal as in-wall or on-wall, but they will work. Look for speakers with an angled woofer/tweeter like this:
http://www.htd.com/Products/high-definition/HD-R65AIM-ceiling-speakers

There are better speakers out there for in-ceiling but you are looking at roughly $500-600 per pair.

I am not sure about your placement of the subwoofer. I would try to just place it in a front corner of the room if you can.
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post #8 of 11 Old 10-04-2012, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Budget is really going to define what I can do here. I probably have less money to spend on the entire basement then some of the forum members spend on speakers. I understand that It is most likely frustrating when people ask for advice and dont want to put up the money to do things right, but this one is really out of my control, and I do need the feedback I am getting.

I just watched the avengers on my family room tv with 5.1 surround, and the polk in wall rc65I and rc/60I in ceiling. I was very happy with the sound.

So since my budget is limited and planning is free I really want to make the most of it.

Price wise I think I will stick with the polks (originally I was planning on using old floor speakers, so even this hurts the pockets)

As far as open baffle

I am placing the studs 16 inches on center, directly against foam board insulation, since the foam board insulation needs a fire barrier, I was planning on bocking off the vertical cavity above and below the speakers(leaving a cavity of yet to be determined volume). then placing 1/2" sheet rock against the foam and fire sealing all cracks, then rockwool or fiberglass insulation, then drywall, and place the speakers in the insulated cavity.

Questions?

1. Will this be better as it is more like a enclosed baffle or is this bad for these speakers as they were designed for a entire wall cavity?
2. I learned after building the house that they make preconstruction brackets for mounting these in walls, Are these worth the cost do they acheive anything or can they be left out?

You can angle the tweeter on the polks, Is that good enough for the rears, I am hoping it is.

Thanks again for any advice
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post #9 of 11 Old 10-04-2012, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonsmithpharmd View Post

Budget is really going to define what I can do here. I probably have less money to spend on the entire basement then some of the forum members spend on speakers. I understand that It is most likely frustrating when people ask for advice and dont want to put up the money to do things right, but this one is really out of my control, and I do need the feedback I am getting.
I just watched the avengers on my family room tv with 5.1 surround, and the polk in wall rc65I and rc/60I in ceiling. I was very happy with the sound.
So since my budget is limited and planning is free I really want to make the most of it.
Price wise I think I will stick with the polks (originally I was planning on using old floor speakers, so even this hurts the pockets)
As far as open baffle
I am placing the studs 16 inches on center, directly against foam board insulation, since the foam board insulation needs a fire barrier, I was planning on bocking off the vertical cavity above and below the speakers(leaving a cavity of yet to be determined volume). then placing 1/2" sheet rock against the foam and fire sealing all cracks, then rockwool or fiberglass insulation, then drywall, and place the speakers in the insulated cavity.
Questions?
1. Will this be better as it is more like a enclosed baffle or is this bad for these speakers as they were designed for a entire wall cavity?
2. I learned after building the house that they make preconstruction brackets for mounting these in walls, Are these worth the cost do they acheive anything or can they be left out?
You can angle the tweeter on the polks, Is that good enough for the rears, I am hoping it is.
Thanks again for any advice

Hey, no worries on the budget, I completely understand. It is completely possible to build your own enclosure. I would use MDF (it is very cheap) and acoustic caulk to seal it. The key would be building the enclosure to the right volume. You don't want to build it too big, or too small. I would call or email Polk, tell them what model speaker you are looking at and ask them what volume to build the enclosure for. I have found that Polk customer support to be very helpful and knowledgeable.

I think your surrounds will be fine. It sounds like you have realistic expectations here.
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post #10 of 11 Old 10-04-2012, 11:02 PM
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I would go with a different sub than polk. If your budget is $200 than the Bic F12 or Energy 10.3 would be good options. If you can go to $300 than the Klipsch RW12D or Bic pl200 would be good. If you can spend more than you can look at HSU subs
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post #11 of 11 Old 10-06-2012, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neverfinished94 View Post

I would go with a different sub than polk. If your budget is $200 than the Bic F12 or Energy 10.3 would be good options. If you can go to $300 than the Klipsch RW12D or Bic pl200 would be good. If you can spend more than you can look at HSU subs

Ok thanks for the advice, I think $200 is about the budget I have. How open of a space does the sub need to be in. I was thinking about placing it in a a wall to the right or left of the screen. Or under the bar by the wall, that was a currently wasted space.

Would I just need Acoustic fabric in front of the sub. Do all areas around the sub need to be open.

My only other option will be to place it either to the right, center, or left of the screen. Since I have R and L corner columns going in. I dont know how this will look. I will post a updated pic soon.

Thanks

Jason
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