Screen size and position Vs. ceiling height - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 03-08-2013, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi, Ive searched quite a bit and although there's tons of great info, I haven't found any solutions to my dilemma. Opinions needed.
(See Attached diagram)
recently moved into new house and have decided the best position/compromise for my first projector.
I have a 90" finished ceiling height with 9-10 inch drops for HVAC. The space I have is about 12.5' W and 18' D. I intend to place the FP just behind the the center drop (about 13' out) keeping the lens as high as possible and will somehow place long thick curtains along the open right side.

My problem is that I would like a 110" screen. My Subs are 22" high and the centre that sits on them is about 10" high leaving me 58" to the ceiling. Main Speakers aren't a problem as they are 9' apart. A roll up screen housing will eat into my height and a fixed screen with 2" border will just fit right up to the ceiling. If having it there is a good thing, then I'm in business even in planning for a future second row of seating.

If I have the centre above the screen, will the screen be too low to properly see from 2nd row?
If I spread the subs apart and get a stand for the centre bringing it to the sub's 22" top height, will it be too low and not properly project the sound?

I'd like to not get a perforated screen for audio/visual compromises ( within a limited budget) as well as having the screen closer, pushing seating back and possibly forgoing the second row.

Just trying to get the best advice before I mess things up:D

Thanks to all

prelim basement plan

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post #2 of 24 Old 03-08-2013, 10:50 AM
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You don't want to "look up" to the screen as it's uncomfortable - eye level at about 1/3 screen height from the bottom is a good starting point. So lower is better.

But your second row will dictate the rest - you need line of sight from 2nd row ears to center channel as well as the screen.

Best answer - calculate it then test it. Draw out the sight lines from your 2nd row (bar stools? riser?) and see what that gives you. Put up the projector, use a temporary screen (paper or white sheet) and see what works.

Jeff

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post #3 of 24 Old 03-08-2013, 11:06 AM
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another thing to consider, unless you have already done the sub crawl, the location you have the subs may not be the best location for the subs...
Also, as I am no expert but I don't think you have room for much of a second row, and rear speakers.. total of 18' with 110" screen where is your first row? Personally would not want to be any closer than 12' from a 110" screen but this is a personal preference.. that leave 6' for the second row and they are against the back wall..
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post #4 of 24 Old 03-08-2013, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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WOW, that was fast.
Quote:
You don't want to "look up" to the screen as it's uncomfortable

That's pretty much what initially prompted this thread, I haven't been able to advance on this project in fear os messing it up and wasting time and money. I'll definitely proceed with the projector install then see.
Quote:
subs may not be the best location

True, my last home had larger, centred space and this was their best position so it was my starting point but haven't pulled the SPL meter out yet.
Quote:
Personally would not want to be any closer than 12' from a 110" screen but this is a personal preference.. that leave 6' for the second row and they are against the back wall..

I'd be at about 11 to 11.5". I am going with a 16:9 screen for convenience and agree that it's very close but when auditioning projectors on a 106", I found the cinemascope image, which is what I'll be watching most was not as enveloping as I expected. Do you think I'd get eye fatigue over prolonged viewing? Also I had calculated the 2nd row being about 18 to 24" from the back wall. please tell me if I'm being overly optimistic that this will all fit.

My sides and rears are Paradigm ADP side firing dipoles so a very diffuse sound if that makes any difference.

sorry, I don't know how to properly quote/

G

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post #5 of 24 Old 03-21-2013, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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After looking around here, I think I've found a compromise but will still have to view it in a room before firmly deciding. I can go with a 2.35 screen at roughly 115" diag so that when I do watch 16:9 I get about 92". That would bring me a bit closer and leave more room for second row and emphasize the 2.35 which will cover the bulk of my watching.

Does this make more sense as far as viewing distances go?

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post #6 of 24 Old 03-24-2013, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone?

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post #7 of 24 Old 03-24-2013, 10:18 PM
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If you primarily watch 2.35 anyway I was wondering why you'd go with a 16x9 screen in the first place. Sounds like you have a plan.

"Damn, you can't get black levels like that on your projector!"
- My brother, just before he realized his LED display had died.

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post #8 of 24 Old 03-25-2013, 06:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conspiracy* View Post

If you primarily watch 2.35 anyway I was wondering why you'd go with a 16x9 screen in the first place. Sounds like you have a plan.
When it comes to video, I'm a total newbie.

You're 100% correct though.

Been reading the forum for a while researching my needs and especially wants. I though I had it all figured out and was going with a 2.35 then once i narrowed down my FP choices, I started visiting dealers. 2 so far, one more later this week. Both tried steering me away from scope to 16:9 saying that I'd be much happier when watching 3D and my kid's animation movies.

This is where a lot of the confusion started. One guy in the place calls another salesperson that calls another salesperson, now you've got three people giving you 3 supposedly knowledgable professional opinions as to why go with 16:9. Personally. black bars don't really bother me Si I agree and follow the recommendations since the 2.35 size won't change if I get a big enough screen.

WELL.. now you can't do that . 106" to 110" is the Max we recommend for the projector. I don't get it cause reviews all state the new epson 3020 or 5020 can go big.

Do they have a valid point? Have any of you gotten this from your local dealers? What am I missing?

And as stated above will I be too close with my proposed scenario?

Thanks

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post #9 of 24 Old 03-25-2013, 09:54 AM
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I have no idea why they'd be steering you to limiting yourself at 110".
Are you planning on getting an anamorphic lens to watch your 2.35 content? Without a separately purchased lens for 2.35 (roughly $1500 for the cheap versions) you're going to either have black bars when watching 2.35 content or you'll have to manually focus/zoom the epson.

I was set on the epson too...but am leaning now towards the panny ae8000. I hardly ever watch 2.35 content but the auto zoom/focus and lens memory make it hard to pass on, especially for roughly the same price as the Epson. The lens memory makes it so the projector will automatically detect and switch from 2.35 to 16x9 by adjusting the zoom/focus for you.If you watch more 2.35 you want the panny, imo.
If you're ok with black bars and build a scope screen...when watching 16x9 instead of the bars being on top and bottom they are on either side. If you're not ok with bars then just mask them off, thats what I plan on doing.

You could go with 100" 16x9 screen from 13'. Measurements would be 49" x 87"
That would give you an 125" scope screen from 13'. Measurements would be 49" x 115"

Edit: Both the panny and the epson would produce MORE than enough light (23Fl on a 1.0 gain screen, 18Fl on .8gain) for this set up from 13'. Almost too much brightness depending on how you like your picture.

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post #10 of 24 Old 03-25-2013, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for that, a bit of positive reinforcement that what " I " initially wanted to do is doable. That is to go with the Panasonic 8000 for the lens memory and 2.35 screen over the epson with a 16:9.

Unfortunately, the anamorphic lens will have to wait a bit till the setup is complete and I have the extra funds but it is part of the grand plan.

I'm anxious to meet the dealer that I'll be going to see later this week. He seemed more hands- on and open to piecing things together to arrive at what I want. He also mentioned that since I mostly watch 2.35 that occasionally manually zooming really wasn't a huge issue if i wanted to stay with the Epson. Also need to take into consideration that the smaller Epsons don't do the image compress needed for the anamorphic lens

With a Maximum of 105" or so between speakers MY scope screen would be about 115" diag leaving me with about 92" 16:9. What do you think of a 11ft viewing distance then, AND will 92" be to small for 16:9?
I'm really hoping this work because I'm getting pretty restless about seeing things advance.

Thanks

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post #11 of 24 Old 03-25-2013, 01:22 PM
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I have an almost identical setup in my basement to the pic you have.

I have a 120" screen (16x9) and my couch is about 10-12 feet away. For me its the perfect distance. My couch is also under an hvac drop, but I have a short throw projector (Optoma GT750) sitting in front of the drop (about 6 feet away from screen I think, mounted on the ceiling). That's a much lower end projector that what you're looking to get though.

I have my sub on the side, and only a center channel sitting on the floor (pointing slightly up) under the screen.

In my (HT newbie) opinion, you should really figure out what the optimal size of the screen is for you, and figure out the distance that you want to sit away from the screen. If that leaves room for a back row, then great, but I wouldn't want to sacrifice my optimal seating position so that a second row is available. Of course, in my house the second row would hardly ever be used, so if you have a lot of people watching at the same time in your house, a second row will be more important.

Anyways, I'm certainly not a pro at this, so perhaps you should ignore everything I said smile.gif

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post #12 of 24 Old 03-25-2013, 01:56 PM
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Why do you have to put your center channel speaker on your subs? I'm confused by that.

My situation is very similar to yours in that I had to drop below a part in my ceiling that was dropped due to a beam. It's about 15' away from the wall. My ceiling where my screen is is about 7'8. I sit about 13 feet or so away.

I went with a 120" screen that is about 1 or 2 inches from my ceiling. I have exactly 26" below my screen.

Here's a panoramic of my room.



In that pic had my center channel on the floor as you can see. But obviously the angle isn't the best. So I built some stands and did measurements to get the center as high as possible without interfering with the screen. Here is how it looks now.



You ever think about doing something like that? It would allow you to have a larger screen than if you stacked the center on the subs.

Additionally, I have fold out chairs so people can sit behind the main row when I have more people over than I have seats. I didn't want to put a second row because we're going to put something else back there, but on normal folding chairs it was easy to see the screen without any interference. If you were to put a riser back there I think the view would be fine and nothing would be obstructed.
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post #13 of 24 Old 03-25-2013, 02:32 PM
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If you only have 105" between your speakers and dont plan on adjusting to allow for more room, then I think you have your screen size determined. Personally 92" isn't big enough for 16x9 but since you mainly use 2.35, and more importantly if thats all the room you can allow for...then thats the size you want to be at. At the smaller screen size you're going to end up with a very bright image so make sure you don't end up with anything designed for high power or high gain.

More: If you can get more than 105 between your mains you're not going to have enough room for 92" 16x9, as the 2.35 dimensions would be 45x107".
You could go for an 85" 16x9 which would be 42x72". That would give you 110" 2.35 screen.

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post #14 of 24 Old 03-25-2013, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
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[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by fstanek View Post

I have an almost identical setup in my basement to the pic you have.

10-12 feet away. For me its the perfect distance. My couch is also under an hvac drop..
Anyways, I'm certainly not a pro at this, so perhaps you should ignore everything I said smile.gif

Thanks, good to know, 10-12 ft just feels right for me regardless of the seating guidelines. the front of the hvac drop is 10.5 ft. from the front wall so don't know for sure but think it'll be too close for the intended screen width depending on the length of the projector and how much room I need for the connectors. I agree with getting the Main seating position right first then see for the second row. I purposely didn't finish closing the ceiling tiles, plastering or making the riser for this reason only. I know I'll be making a mess with new equipment in the room but I can live with that.

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post #15 of 24 Old 03-25-2013, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

Why do you have to put your center channel speaker on your subs? I'm confused by that.

My situation is very similar to yours in that I had to drop below a part in my ceiling that was dropped due to a beam. It's about 15' away from the wall. My ceiling where my screen is is about 7'8. I sit about 13 feet or so away.

I went with a 120" screen that is about 1 or 2 inches from my ceiling. I have exactly 26" below my screen.

Here's a panoramic of my room.



You ever think about doing something like that? It would allow you to have a larger screen than if you stacked the center on the subs.

Additionally, I have fold out chairs so people can sit behind the main row when I have more people over than I have seats. I didn't want to put a second row because we're going to put something else back there, but on normal folding chairs it was easy to see the screen without any interference. If you were to put a riser back there I think the view would be fine and nothing would be obstructed.

My pre/pro is between the subs cause my interconnects aren't long enough to get to the amps yet and I put my center is on the subs just temporarily to give me a sense of the overall look of the room and to be able to play with it's height but I will be separating them and probably go with a look very similar to yours / nice job. BTW, If I don't have room in front of the drop, I'll place the FP just like you've done.
If room permits, I will be making a riser. I placed the equipment on the width of the room so I have free run on the full 18.5 ft.
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Originally Posted by Conspiracy* View Post

If you only have 105" between your speakers and dont plan on adjusting to allow for more room, then I think you have your screen size determined. Personally 92" isn't big enough for 16x9 but since you mainly use 2.35, and more importantly if thats all the room you can allow for...then thats the size you want to be at. At the smaller screen size you're going to end up with a very bright image so make sure you don't end up with anything designed for high power or high gain.

More: If you can get more than 105 between your mains you're not going to have enough room for 92" 16x9, as the 2.35 dimensions would be 45x107".
You could go for an 85" 16x9 which would be 42x72". That would give you 110" 2.35 screen.

Thanks, I do have more room if I truly need, I was just trying to keep things a bit more airy around the equipment. I've allotted myself 12.5 ft in total width so about 150" minus about 15"for each speaker including a bit of room plus toe-in. What would you suggest as being big enough?

I know this is a personal choice but having a better sense of what to look out for will help me "take it all in" when I go see the projector dealer this Thurs or Fri. As far as brightness is concerned, I've read quite a bit about "too bright is bad" but figured if I can get the FP as close as possible and run in Low-power mode I'd be OK and stretch the lamp life. Not sure if I'm selling myself a pile or not:D

Here's a pic,

LL
from the couch back position to the front is 12.5'

Thanks again

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post #16 of 24 Old 03-25-2013, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gcap View Post

Thanks, I do have more room if I truly need, I was just trying to keep things a bit more airy around the equipment. I've allotted myself 12.5 ft in total width so about 150" minus about 15"for each speaker including a bit of room plus toe-in. What would you suggest as being big enough?

I know this is a personal choice but having a better sense of what to look out for will help me "take it all in" when I go see the projector dealer this Thurs or Fri. As far as brightness is concerned, I've read quite a bit about "too bright is bad" but figured if I can get the FP as close as possible and run in Low-power mode I'd be OK and stretch the lamp life. Not sure if I'm selling myself a pile or not:D

Here's a pic,

LL
from the couch back position to the front is 12.5'

Thanks again

Ok so you have a lot more room to play with. When demo'ing projectors you probably will not be able to find a screen under 106"...if you go with the 85" you're giving up a TON of real estate. It all is going to depend on how far back you're seated. I have a 106" 16x9 now and from 15' and its acceptable, but I want to go bigger. Actually after all my hard work, the very first thing my wife said when she came downstairs was "I thought it would be bigger than that..."

Standard is about 1.1/1 ratio on seating distance to screen size. So if you wanted to go with an 115" screen you'd want to be between 11' and 12'.

Plus, if it were me I'd try to get my screen out from under the shadow of that soffit by a few inches. Depending on whats to the right of that pic I'd try to shift the whole set up by 6" to the right.

"Damn, you can't get black levels like that on your projector!"
- My brother, just before he realized his LED display had died.

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post #17 of 24 Old 03-25-2013, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
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A quick trip to projector central tells me that a 100" 16:9 diag that most people find to be quite respectable is 49" in height.
That height when in 2.35 is equal to a 126" diag and 116 in length leaving me with 17" on each side of the screen to fit front channels. I could use a future curtain purchase to mask the sides an inch or 2 and have a smaller 2.35 with a bit of horiz. bars if i would find it too wide but practically speaking from sitting around the room, the speakers would not get in the way even if they are 1.25 ft. out from the back wall. I'm pretty sure that If I find a standard size screen ( read cheaper than custom:)) a tad smaller than this I could be satisfied with the resulting 16:9 experience, maybe?

To Conspiracy and others:

What would you accept as a minimum in this aspect ratio?

G

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post #18 of 24 Old 03-25-2013, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conspiracy* View Post

I have a 106" 16x9 now and from 15' and its acceptable, but I want to go bigger. Actually after all my hard work, the very first thing my wife said when she came downstairs was "I thought it would be bigger than that..."
Standard is about 1.1/1 ratio on seating distance to screen size. So if you wanted to go with an 115" screen you'd want to be between 11' and 12'.
Plus, if it were me I'd try to get my screen out from under the shadow of that soffit by a few inches. Depending on whats to the right of that pic I'd try to shift the whole set up by 6" to the right.

WHen you say 15' is acceptable, do you mean that closer ( or bigger given the room you have) would be hard on the eyes or 15' being the furthest you'd sit?
I've read that the standard should be from 1.35 to 1.85 from any given seat from the screen.

I have shifted things a bit to centre them as well as swap the rightmost light tile over with it's neighbour, so aligning is still in order but the hvac "soffit" you see on the left is 24" and 8 inches below ceiling height. If I respect that side-clearance on both sides, It leaves me with 102" of width. With a 16:9, I had to count itor I wouldn't have the height learance for a large screen but woeking with 2.35, I can slip it underneath without too many worries. To see it without the lights on is really not a bother, to look at the picture it's the first thing you see. I'll take a pic tomorrow and share it as the one there is about a month old.

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post #19 of 24 Old 03-26-2013, 12:46 PM
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The THX standard for viewing distance from your screen is to take your screen size and divide by .84 - Thats roughly a 1.18/1 viewing ratio. If you were 1.85 away from your screen size for example...on a 110" screen you'd be at 17'...that will make it seem like your 110" screen is way too small.

At 15' the 106" i have now is acceptable in that its almost too small. Again depending on the room size you want to go as big as possible, without it seeming like you crammed the screen in somewhere it doesnt fit. ANYTHING you have compared to that TV sitting there now is going to look massive. I'd say maximize your space between speakers then go down a bit on the screen size. If you can't get 128 diag 2.35 screen...I'd go down to 120 diag. that way you wont have to mask anything off and your aspect ratio will be ok. If you were to mask off 2 inches but keep the height at 49...you'd end up with less than 2.35

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post #20 of 24 Old 03-26-2013, 05:27 PM
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If your room is treated accordingly, brightness won't be an issue with the right projector. I have a 136" 2.35 screen thats capturing an image projected from about 16 feet away and the brightness is fine.
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post #21 of 24 Old 03-26-2013, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Conspiracy* View Post

The THX standard for viewing distance from your screen is to take your screen size and divide by .84 - Thats roughly a 1.18/1 viewing ratio. If you were 1.85 away from your screen size for example...on a 110" screen you'd be at 17'...that will make it seem like your 110" screen is way too small.

At 15' the 106" i have now is acceptable in that its almost too small. Again depending on the room size you want to go as big as possible, without it seeming like you crammed the screen in somewhere it doesnt fit. ANYTHING you have compared to that TV sitting there now is going to look massive. I'd say maximize your space between speakers then go down a bit on the screen size. If you can't get 128 diag 2.35 screen...I'd go down to 120 diag. that way you wont have to mask anything off and your aspect ratio will be ok. If you were to mask off 2 inches but keep the height at 49...you'd end up with less than 2.35

Thanks, I must have mis quoted the specs but in any case I agree that closer is better as long as no one gets eye fatigue from being too close. as I stated in an earlier post, watching 2.35 on a 106" 16:9 was not very satisfying from about 13 ft. It was the new batman movie and I loved the size when showing the beginning in 16:9 but when the movie switched to wide, it became disappointingly dull, I'll mark off the area with tape tomorrow for a better idea and let you know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mn_hokie View Post

If your room is treated accordingly, brightness won't be an issue with the right projector. I have a 136" 2.35 screen thats capturing an image projected from about 16 feet away and the brightness is fine.

May I ask which projector you're using and your viewing distance? I will mostly be watchonig in the evenings and rroom treatments such as wall and ceiling colour will only come later.

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post #22 of 24 Old 03-26-2013, 06:23 PM
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You bet. I'm using a Panasonic AE3000. My screen is a 136" 2.35. First row viewing is at almost 13 feet and 2nd row is at 17 feet. Personally, I see a screen in the 120's and 2.35 on your wall smile.gif
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post #23 of 24 Old 03-26-2013, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, if I reduced to the 120's or so do you think a max of 16 ft or so would be acceptable for the rear row? I really want it to be over 20" from the back wall for the rear back dipole speakers to envelope.

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post #24 of 24 Old 03-26-2013, 08:18 PM
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I think 120" 2.35 would be right. If back row is at 16 that puts your first row at about 12. Seems legit.

"Damn, you can't get black levels like that on your projector!"
- My brother, just before he realized his LED display had died.

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