Huge window right where the side surround speaker should be... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 05-19-2013, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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I've got a 4-5 year old set of Paradigm Monitor dipole speakers that I'm trying to position. I think they only support mounting and not book shelf style as the bottoms aren't fully flat. The home we just bought has an awesome media room in it. Speaker placement is good for everything except one last speaker, the right side surround speaker.

The right side of the room has a huge 8'x4' window in it. If the speaker is mounted below the window it would be 2 feet below ear level and the furniture would interfere with the sound. If the speaker is mounted above the window it would be 8 feet off the ground (too high right?). The room is 20 feet wide by 23 feet long.

One thought I had was to somehow fashion a custom bracket that would mount under the window, then navigate around the window sill lip, and up a foot or so and mount the speaker to it. That would place the speaker at about the right height, but I don't have the resources or ideas to fabricate this type of bracket.

Another idea I had was to mount a bracket above the window that drops straight down about 3 feet and mount the speaker there. But this design creates a visual and logistical problem with the wiring.

Lastly I've thought of a lone speaker stand, but it'd need to accommodate the rear mounting of the speaker as it won't simply sit of a sand. I haven't been able to find such a stand.

What other options can you think of? What would you do if there was a huge window right where you needed to mount a speaker?

Thank you for reading and adding any help to this challenge!

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post #2 of 22 Old 05-19-2013, 02:53 PM
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Mount it past the window. Being its a dipole speaker you are getting indirect sound anyway. And for optimal surround sound, mount the left surround at the same location on the opposite wall, if possible.
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post #3 of 22 Old 05-19-2013, 04:50 PM
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I have a similar situation, but I haven't solved for it yet. My plan is to get bookshelf speakers and place them onto a stand to elevate them to proper listening height. But if you already have speakers and just need a proper stand, then you could always build one.

Warning: I make a lot of mistakes but occasionally I learn from them!
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post #4 of 22 Old 05-20-2013, 04:15 AM
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I've got a 4-5 year old set of Paradigm Monitor dipole speakers that I'm trying to position. I think they only support mounting and not book shelf style as the bottoms aren't fully flat. The home we just bought has an awesome media room in it. Speaker placement is good for everything except one last speaker, the right side surround speaker.

One thought that just came to mind...buy a few wedge rubber door stops. Then you can place the dipoles on shelves and use the stops to support the speaker at the proper position(angle).
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post #5 of 22 Old 05-20-2013, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

Mount it past the window. Being its a dipole speaker you are getting indirect sound anyway. And for optimal surround sound, mount the left surround at the same location on the opposite wall, if possible.

This would be easy, and make it about 6 feet behind the listeners. The other side is no problem.

Anyone have more input on how this might affect the sound rather then being placed 90-110 degrees behind?
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post #6 of 22 Old 05-20-2013, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mnemonic View Post

I have a similar situation, but I haven't solved for it yet. My plan is to get bookshelf speakers and place them onto a stand to elevate them to proper listening height. But if you already have speakers and just need a proper stand, then you could always build one.

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Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

I've got a 4-5 year old set of Paradigm Monitor dipole speakers that I'm trying to position. I think they only support mounting and not book shelf style as the bottoms aren't fully flat. The home we just bought has an awesome media room in it. Speaker placement is good for everything except one last speaker, the right side surround speaker.

One thought that just came to mind...buy a few wedge rubber door stops. Then you can place the dipoles on shelves and use the stops to support the speaker at the proper position(angle).

This is a good idea. If I'm gonna build a speaker stand I'd build it so that the speaker can be mounted right to it instead of sitting on it. I'm curious as to how the sound would be if mounted past it like you said?

The window sill is made of thick hardwood. I bought a 1"x4" piece of oak yesterday and stained it to match the window sill. I'm thinking of mounting it to the window sill vertically thereby providing a sturdy mount for the speaker. It won't be very pretty, but should work. Funny how when you start to put a problem down in words and start talking about it with others how more solutions crop up!smile.gif
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post #7 of 22 Old 05-20-2013, 09:22 AM
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I just dealt with this situation except for the right front speaker. The windows are 14 feet by 6 feet so couldn't go above or below. I ended up mounting both the left and right front below the tv (in order to match), selected the appropriate speaker width from the avr set up and Audyssey finished it off with an acceptably wide sound stage. The Audyssey program is what really allowed me get by with a less than optimal placement.
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post #8 of 22 Old 05-20-2013, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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I suppose I could try the behind spot the window and run MCACC and see what happens. Means holes in drywall instead of hardwood window sill if it works...
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post #9 of 22 Old 05-20-2013, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bzollinger View Post

I suppose I could try the behind spot the window and run MCACC and see what happens. Means holes in drywall instead of hardwood window sill if it works...

For drywall, you need these: EZ anchors, two of these easily will hold over 30#.
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post #10 of 22 Old 05-20-2013, 10:28 AM
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Go get some mesh drywall patch and a small container of joint compound. I just completed my 5.1 installation with hundreds of feet of wire and several drywall holes for just a single, complex, large room. I had to patch quick to stop wife from complaining given her hating all things home theater hence all components had to be hidden in far away cabinetry via inwall IR repeater system. It is the easiest part of the whole process. Just ensure you have some correct paint on hand and prime a couple coats first.
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post #11 of 22 Old 05-20-2013, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

For drywall, you need these: EZ anchors, two of these easily will hold over 30#.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkust View Post

Go get some mesh drywall patch and a small container of joint compound. I just completed my 5.1 installation with hundreds of feet of wire and several drywall holes for just a single, complex, large room. I had to patch quick to stop wife from complaining given her hating all things home theater hence all components had to be hidden in far away cabinetry via inwall IR repeater system. It is the easiest part of the whole process. Just ensure you have some correct paint on hand and prime a couple coats first.

I love those drywall hangers! Just bought a 50 pack this weekend!

Have you seen the drywall patches that are already textured and primed? They are the best! And they are sticky on one side, just peel, stick and paint. biggrin.gif
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post #12 of 22 Old 05-20-2013, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyone know of someone with enough audio experience that might be able to speculate about the placement of these speakers 6 feet behind the listener?
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post #13 of 22 Old 05-20-2013, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by bzollinger View Post




Have you seen the drywall patches that are already textured and primed? They are the best! And they are sticky on one side, just peel, stick and paint. biggrin.gif

Ha Ha, no I haven't seen them. Not sure how useful since you still would want to prime over the joint compound too. But wait a secont....textured...is that for ceilings? That could be useful to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bzollinger View Post

Anyone know of someone with enough audio experience that might be able to speculate about the placement of these speakers 6 feet behind the listener?

I had posted this same type of thread asking about my similar issue. The advcie I got from those was to just play around with the placement and see how it sounds. In my case I had only one other spot I could have put the speaker so it wasn't hard to tell which sounded better. The room correction is pretty amazing.
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post #14 of 22 Old 05-20-2013, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Ha Ha, no I haven't seen them. Not sure how useful since you still would want to prime over the joint compound too. But wait a secont....textured...is that for ceilings? That could be useful to me.
I had posted this same type of thread asking about my similar issue. The advcie I got from those was to just play around with the placement and see how it sounds. In my case I had only one other spot I could have put the speaker so it wasn't hard to tell which sounded better. The room correction is pretty amazing.

They are pretty slick for sure! Check 'em out at home depot: http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/203116665?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=203116665&R=203116665#.UZql3KXobx8

Okay thanks!
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post #15 of 22 Old 05-20-2013, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by bzollinger View Post

If the speaker is mounted above the window it would be 8 feet off the ground (too high right?).
Nope, not too high. The uniqueness of using dipole surrounds is that listeners get very little direct sound from the speakers and instead are enveloped by reflected sound coming from all around them. The way that is done is by placing the dipoles directly to the sides of the listening area so that the listeners are sitting in the speakers' nulls (quiet zones). Placing the speakers rearward of the listening area would mean that one set of drivers would be pointing at the listeners, thereby defeating the purpose of using dipole surrounds (might as well use monopole bookshelf speakers in that case).

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post #16 of 22 Old 05-21-2013, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Nope, not too high. The uniqueness of using dipole surrounds is that listeners get very little direct sound from the speakers and instead are enveloped by reflected sound coming from all around them. The way that is done is by placing the dipoles directly to the sides of the listening area so that the listeners are sitting in the speakers' nulls (quiet zones). Placing the speakers rearward of the listening area would mean that one set of drivers would be pointing at the listeners, thereby defeating the purpose of using dipole surrounds (might as well use monopole bookshelf speakers in that case).

But the far side drivers would be pointing away from the seating. So then you end up with both direct and indirect sound. And that is not a bad thing.
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post #17 of 22 Old 05-21-2013, 04:35 AM
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I can't make up my mind about dipoles. I used direct radiating surrounds for years, then switched to dipoles. For me, the sound is too diffuse. For instance, when there's a flyover, the impact is really reduced for me using dipoles. I just sold this house (and the dipoles are on the wall and therefore staying). When I build another room, I likely will not use dipoles. Unfortunately to get surround speakers to match my main speakers is quite expensive, $2,000+ per pair.

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post #18 of 22 Old 05-21-2013, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Nope, not too high. The uniqueness of using dipole surrounds is that listeners get very little direct sound from the speakers and instead are enveloped by reflected sound coming from all around them. The way that is done is by placing the dipoles directly to the sides of the listening area so that the listeners are sitting in the speakers' nulls (quiet zones). Placing the speakers rearward of the listening area would mean that one set of drivers would be pointing at the listeners, thereby defeating the purpose of using dipole surrounds (might as well use monopole bookshelf speakers in that case).

I suppose that I will mount them to the side and 6 feet above ear level and give them a shot! Would it be beneficial to aim then downward slightly? Thanks for the info.
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post #19 of 22 Old 05-21-2013, 09:39 AM
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Only since you brought up Home Depot...I would never think of them for home audio and when I needed a Parrallel splitter to feed volume control knobs they had the cheapest price by far of the two on the market that I could find. They are just acting as an internet retailer and they ship it to the store for pick up. Only downside is state sales tax but still 2/3 the price of everyon else. Anyway who'd have thought?
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post #20 of 22 Old 05-23-2013, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Based on the theory that putting them 6 feet behind the listener, I put them about 6 feet in front and to the side. The previous home owner had wiring and holes in the drywall in those spots for his small fronts in his system. I figured that I should try this spot first since everything was available. There in, I've ran MCACC. So far I've played a little Xbox 360 and watched a little TV. They don't seem to have added or detracted from the system much at this point. Will have to continue listening to them to decide if they'll stay or not.

Any input in the placement in front and above the listener? From what I've read this is not where they should go, but I haven't heard why that is compared to placing them behind.
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post #21 of 22 Old 05-24-2013, 03:50 AM
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Surround means behind. Not to the front. So if you try them behind the window, as I suggested, but they still don't sound quite right cos they're dipole. Then the only real other choice is to replace them with monopole speakers...and that back location will work.

When you run into a situation that is not good, one needs to adapt.
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post #22 of 22 Old 05-24-2013, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I had to try the front, high position cause of the wiring and holes provided. I'm going to have to watch a stellar movie and then decide to move them.
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