First ever HT. Did I choose wisely? 18' x 20' & $2500 (now lost on speakers) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 07-17-2013, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

I was going to get a 65" LCD when I realized even that will be too small for my space to realize 1080P benefits. I decided to venture to home projection instead. What do you think of the components i intend go with?

Space: 35' x 20' x 104" Open floor space consisting of living room, dinning area and staircase. The HT area will be confined to the side and will be 18' W x 20" L.

Budget: $ 2500 (what otherwise a 65" LCD would cost...)

Content: HD Cable, HD online Streaming, HTPC Streaming, Music Streaming. No BD, No Classical Music.. smile.gif

Here is what I am thinking of:

PJ: Epson 8345 $1030. Seems almost identical to the 8350 and cost $300 less.

Screen: Elite Electric 125" 16:9 MaxWhite (seems to be getting better reviews from the corresponding entry level Favi)

Mount: Peerless PRGUNV Precision Gear $90. Seems crazy to spend $90 on a mount but hopefully it is worth it given the low profile and ease of adjustments.

Receiver: Yamaha RX-V673BL $400. Hopefully I will not regret it being discontinued.
Contender: Pioneer VSX-823-K. Current model but I am assuming I am better off with the Yamaha even though it is discontinued.

Speakers: MartinLogan MLT-2 $300

others I have considered:
  • Polk Audio RM705 $250
  • Energy 5.1 Take Classic $270
  • Jamo S426HCS3 $380. I would prefer to put as much as I can on the walls....
  • DT ProCinema 400BK $400

Total with cables etc' $2150. Below budget! I am thinking to upgrade the speakers to the Andrew Jones SP-PK22BS ($450)

What do you think?

Thanks
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post #2 of 23 Old 07-17-2013, 06:57 PM
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While the visual is good, audio is very important to me. I would get better speakers than any you propose. If the audio is of little importance, you won't listen critically or want high spl from your system, maybe; maybe find a better deal on a basic avr and afford better speakers or simply up your budget. You have a fairly large space and a lot depends on your expectations....
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post #3 of 23 Old 07-17-2013, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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ok, thanks for the help. There is room left in the budget for better speakers so hopefully upping it to $500 - $600 (double) will do the trick.
I am open to suggestions. I must admit that I struggled with the Speakers research the most and these systems made it easier to pick.
So what am I looking at? pairing separate channels and woofer together to accommodate the larger space? I am not an audiophile by any means but I would love for the sound to be immersive, effective and merely sound good. The sources are streamed HD video and music and HD cable content. It would be nice to hang the front and back speakers on the wall as I have pre-run wires in the wall for it.
So basically I am lost on the speakers selection. I will do some further research. There must be online calculators that will suggest speakers given my space. Any recommendations would be greatly appropriated...
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post #4 of 23 Old 07-17-2013, 07:20 PM
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I dropped almost $2K on a 70" LED LCD TV. By that metric you are doing great!!

What made you choose the Epson over other favorably reviewed PJs? (e.g. BenQ and Optoma)
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post #5 of 23 Old 07-17-2013, 07:23 PM
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Also, I have had pretty good luck with refurbed AVRs, so you might be able to save a few bucks there. (EDIT: And I much prefer Audyssey to YPAO but your mileage may vary)
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post #6 of 23 Old 07-17-2013, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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LOL, yes when I realized that even at $2500 an LED LCD (I was looking at the Sami ones) is not going to cut it in this room, the penny dropped and I realized projection may provide the best results. it required a bit of a mind shift as I never had a projector or in fact seen one in action (short of boring work PPTs) but i hear ppl say the quality is out of this world so I am looking forward to see it in action. Then I got excited by the idea of having your very own movie theatre like experience as going to the movies these days pretty much stinks. I mean why would I go if I can get better quality on my TV? Those digital experience showing (that cost a few dollars more) are much better though. Anyhow, the epson seemed to have really good reviews so it kind of stood out at this entry level category. The features and price were right. it may be a little more expensive than the competition (if I remember correctly) but the budget allows for it. Had I gone with the TV there would have been only $500 left for an HTIB (I would have stretched the budget to 3K).

Well, I was going to go with the Pioneer when I saw I can get the Yamaha for the same price (as it seems to be a higher end model albeit discontinued one). I am willing to be persuaded otherwise if you think buying a discontinued model is not sensible. I still haven't ordered anything (wanted to confirm with you guys first) and I also still need to figure out what speakers to go with....
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post #7 of 23 Old 07-18-2013, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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researching speakers suck (for a noob who doesn't know much about audio).

What do you think of these options? presumably these will give better results than the above?

Option 1:

Infinity Primus PS38 8" woofer $200
Infinity Primus PC351 Center Ch $200
Infinity Primus P163 Bookshelf * 4 (@$90)

Total: $760

Option 2:

BIC F12 Woffer @200
BIC DV62si Bookshelf * 4 (@110)
BIC DV-62CLRS Center Channel (@100)

Total: $740

Option 3:

HTD Level 2 bookshelf pair $200
Level 2 center channel $129
level 2 woofer $349

Total: $678 (add surround later)
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post #8 of 23 Old 07-18-2013, 10:39 AM
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some good budget options you have listed there - given the open concept I'd go with the biggest and best speakers you can afford. Lots of folks like the Primus and AJ Pioneers. Also, you don't have to match the sub with your main speakers. So, either the Primus or Pioneers w/ the BIC F12 (or another good budget sub) would work well. Check out the budget sub thread in the Sub forum for more info.

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post #9 of 23 Old 07-18-2013, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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ok, great. Thanks for the tips, I like the F12 combo idea.

Do you think the AJ Pioneers will be too small (as was suggested above)? I am not looking at crazy volume levels given the neighbours and the kiddos sleeping a level above when I do most of my watching.

I am assuming all these speakers would work well with the Yamaha RX-V673BL?

Thanks for the help!
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post #10 of 23 Old 07-18-2013, 11:22 AM
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One of the better deals on subs is the recurrent sale (sometimes you have to wait a bit) for the Klipsch RW12d at newegg.com. Goes on sale for $280 to 300 delivered regularly...generally considered a better sub than the F12.

For hanging speakers on the wall you'll probably run into mounting issues with the AJ designed Pioneers from what I remember, although a good mount will do the job, the mount that holds from the bottom of the speaker (Pinpoint AM40 I believe is the model, but seems they've stopped production and now there's the same mount with a different brand name...search the forums, that should come up easily enough)...those mounts run approx $40 each. Then there's the issue with rear-ported speakers mounted on a wall, they'll need a little breathing room (and better sound generally by using ported speakers away from the wall; sealed speakers are better suited for mounting on the wall, or at least front firing ported speakers). You might also consider a package of speakers and sub from Hsu Research, their speakers are fairly efficient and should achieve good spl levels with most receivers, but they're better known for their subs. Ascend Acoustics also has a nice lineup of speakers and sells Rythmik subs as a package thing.

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post #11 of 23 Old 07-18-2013, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Are any of the speakers I identified above are rear ported that I need to worry about? I am assuming that if something is called "bookshelf" it is a safe bet it is not rear ported? What is the easiest way to tell? The spec don't seem to include it. I am probably missing something really basic.

thanks for the heads up on HSU and Ascend. I actually visited their sites when I started this speaker research but somehow missed their packaged deals. Much like with the HTDs, I will either have to wait with the surround speakers or stretch the budget to $1000.

For the Ascend ones am I looking at the CMT-340 or CBM-170 line? I am not sure what they consider as a large room.
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post #12 of 23 Old 07-18-2013, 12:36 PM
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You'll have to check the speaker, look for photos front and rear if possible, but it should say in the specs if it is ported/vented/bass reflex type though some aren't so good at telling you the location of the port. Usually you only need several inches away from the wall to let the port breathe but can still create odd sound reflections, most are really better off 1-2 feet away from a wall. Do a search on google: "ported speaker placement site:avsforum.com" and you should get some good information although you may need to read a few threads.

The CMT340 is way too big for wall mounting; both the 170 & 340 are rear ported. The 200SE is sealed and suitable for placement on a wall, and a very good speaker despite its size, but still really more for a small/medium room. Of the three the 340 is the most sensitive and best for larger spaces.

Nothing wrong with starting with 3.1 and working your way up. Or even 2.1 and using a phantom center, although I do prefer a center as so much movie/tv dialog is setup that way.

The receiver you've designated will work fine with all the speakers mentioned. Only time you might need more receiver is for amplification for less sensitive or low impedance (4 ohm) speakers at higher listening levels.

Did you review the FAQs for setup here on avs, also for choosing a receiver, etc?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/824554/setting-up-your-home-theater-101

http://www.avsforum.com/t/968859/avr-faq

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post #13 of 23 Old 07-18-2013, 02:38 PM
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How well is sound isolated from upstairs? If the answer is not much, I think you will have issues filling that big room with sound and NOT simultaneously making a bassy racket upstairs as well. My reasonably well insulated, and much smaller basement is one and a half floors below my upstairs sleepers and I still have to be a little careful with volume, particularly bass.
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post #14 of 23 Old 07-18-2013, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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That is a good question. It is a new town home we just moved in to. I had the pleasure of seeing a hole in the floor in one of the units here and there was probably 3 feet between the floors if not more (with trusses, AC ducts and the works). I don't know if that is good for sound isolation or bad. Until the HT is setup in the 2nd floor I am watching an LCD TV on the first floor and the wife already said from the 3rd floor ITS LOUD! eek.gif. And this is without a woofer... The stairs have this open chamber going up through the height of the town home which I think act like a big speaker. There must be awesome sound in the Attic LOL. I think realistically you are very right. I think there will be very little sound isolation. my ceiling will probably resonate their floors (or the neighbours). The walls are cinder blocks with 2 inches of nothing and then Sheetrock (interesting?). I think realistically I need speakers that would be good on low volume (high sensitivity?) the vast majority of the time. Maybe I need to forget about wall mounting (where I have wires already pre-ran) and put the speakers closer to me on stands (though with the little ones I wanted to avoid it)? Maybe I don't need to go crazy with the speakers as I may not get to blast them anyway. Decisions decisions.

Thanks for the links Lovin. I started to read through. what a monumental task it is turns out I knew quite a bit in some areas, but definitely a lacking area is speakers so I am looking forward to read more over the weekend (ohm, freq response, sensitivity, oh my head hurts).
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post #15 of 23 Old 07-18-2013, 07:27 PM
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Yeah, you can get uh, "involved" with all this stuff. But if it's important, then it's worth it, right? I've loved good audio for a long time and only recently relatively updated my now audio/visual setup compared to some around here. However, some good research can save you some bucks (but seeing your spelling guessing you're not in the US). That's not a good sign (IMHO) when your wife thinks just a tv is loud from two floors up...me, no WAF involved and I play at reference any time I want.

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post #16 of 23 Old 07-18-2013, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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haha. no I am in the US, just ESL.

I have done some further research.

I looked at emotiva speakers but their central channel is out of stock.

I looked at SOAVO series and Energy S-10 but they are discontinued.

I looked at SHO-10 (chase) but forgot what their story was already.

It seems like there was a model Infinity Primus P162 which I confirmed was not back ported. Does that mean the P163 is not back ported as well? Couldn't conclude. EDIT: ok, they are are not back ported. that's good....

It seem like the Level 2 are not back ported as well?

If you can confirm the P163 series or the level 2 ones are what I need I will pull the trigger on those.

tbh, I am at the point that I rather go with your recommendations given the info I provided thus far. Call it analysis paralysis. Given the above realistically anything will (prob) do.

I still don't understand why they call them bookshelves speakers if most of them are back ported and it is best for them not to be places against a wall.

I came across reputable back ported speakers (from what I was able to infer) where the mfr. still said to place them on a bookshelf. Not sure what gives.
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post #17 of 23 Old 07-18-2013, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Since its 1AM you know I had to look to see what's on Craigslist. LOL, big mistake:

Onix X-Series 5.1 system for $390
Polk Audio 5.1 Speakers RT8 RT5 CS245i for $380
Infinity Primus 5.1 PS12, 2 HTS-SAT, C-25, 2 200W towers for $400

and these price points I would get one just to get a sense of what I really need/like....
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post #18 of 23 Old 07-30-2013, 08:16 PM
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Congrats arnav, I would suggest that you go with used speakers for bang for the buck. The onix are great speakers at a killer price there on cl. Just go with a 3.1 to start and add your surround later. Thumbs up for the klipsch rw 12d at neweg. If it is out of stock you can request for a notification when it is back in stock. I picked one up and it does the job for the price probably better than most at the price point. I have always bought used onix and you cannot go wrong with them. Just do a google search for them and they will pop up. Frys always has great sales on avr. Monoprice for your cable needs, no where else. Good luck and have fun with your new system.
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post #19 of 23 Old 07-30-2013, 08:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply, I thought I killed the thread....

I got everything up and running but the speakers. Still can't decide what to go with.

The Projector + Screen are amazing. Far beyond my expectations. I thought the pic quality was awesome when I first merely projected the against the wall. Then I added the screen and Bam!
All I can say is wow. Even the wife is impressed (which says a lot). She is looking at HT seating now smile.gif. I shall never set foot in a movie theatre again. At 125" and seating 19' away I am so happy I didn't go with a 65" LCD. The look on the kids face when they first saw it was priceless. Still need to hide the wires in the walls (I wanted to make sure everything is working right away).

So, with the speakers it is between:

Option 1:

Infinity Primus P163 Bookshelvs x 4
Infinity Primus PC351 Center Ch
BIC F12 Woffer
I just missed the sale at crutchfield on them. Should have pulled the trigger. Amazon has them on a good price but I am worried about the warranty (given the disclaimer on the Harman's site)? confused.gif


Option 2:
Onix X-Series 5.1 system from CL.
4 Onix x-ls bookshelf monitor speakers
1 x-cs Center channel speaker
1 Onix UFW-10 Sub

I actually tried to google it today and concluded (prob wrongly) that between the two a lot of people liked the infinity. The Onix seems to be a better value and bigger bang for the buck for what I would get them on CL for.

What do you think?

Thanks for all the help guys
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post #20 of 23 Old 07-30-2013, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnav View Post

Thanks for the reply, I thought I killed the thread....

I got everything up and running but the speakers. Still can't decide what to go with.

The Projector + Screen are amazing. Far beyond my expectations. I thought the pic quality was awesome when I first merely projected the against the wall. Then I added the screen and Bam!
All I can say is wow. Even the wife is impressed (which says a lot). She is looking at HT seating now smile.gif. I shall never set foot in a movie theatre again. At 125" and seating 19' away I am so happy I didn't go with a 65" LCD. The look on the kids face when they first saw it was priceless. Still need to hide the wires in the walls (I wanted to make sure everything is working right away).

So, with the speakers it is between:

Option 1:

Infinity Primus P163 Bookshelvs x 4
Infinity Primus PC351 Center Ch
BIC F12 Woffer
I just missed the sale at crutchfield on them. Should have pulled the trigger. Amazon has them on a good price but I am worried about the warranty (given the disclaimer on the Harman's site)? confused.gif


Option 2:
Onix X-Series 5.1 system from CL.
4 Onix x-ls bookshelf monitor speakers
1 x-cs Center channel speaker
1 Onix UFW-10 Sub

I actually tried to google it today and concluded (prob wrongly) that between the two a lot of people liked the infinity. The Onix seems to be a better value and bigger bang for the buck for what I would get them on CL for.

What do you think?

Thanks for all the help guys

I think you should look at quality speakers if you think just the picture makes a big difference....those speakers you are optioning are still very weak overall.

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post #21 of 23 Old 07-30-2013, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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only got $750 to spend on the speakers so I need to work with what I got... I would love any recommendations if you think I can do better at that range.

tbh, i think I need speakers with high sensitivity (did I get this right?) that will do well at low volume. At the end of the day I do all my watching from 10PM to 12PM when everyone is sleeping. No wall shaking here. What can i say, those are my needs. I guess they are modest. You'll flip out if you knew what I connected to the HTS to the past few days to do my watching (and even that was loud)... redface.gif
It would suck to get a really good speaker set that will sound awful if i were to play them at really low volumes.
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post #22 of 23 Old 07-30-2013, 09:55 PM
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How are you at gluing/soldering things together? There are some very well reviewed SEOS speaker kits(search the forum) that will get you great sensitivity/dynamics here www.diysoundgroup.com from our fellow avs member Erich...best bang for the buck as long as your time is free and you have some workspace and finishing skills (if you even need to finish them). Just imagine if a good picture excites everyone what good sound can do.... wink.gif

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post #23 of 23 Old 07-31-2013, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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You are on a mission to suck me in to this as a hobby are you? eek.gif All I wanted was a set of speakers LOL.

I looked at the site you provided. Very cool and right up my alley (though with the new house there is a huge queue of DIY projects).
I have very good gluing/soldering skills from my other hobbies. Creating the board is probably more then I want to chew now tough. Not because it is difficult but becuase I am pedant and would want them to look nice and would probably spend hours planning it out before I even powered up my iron. Even if I skip over these now, I am definitely adding it on the TODO list.

so hypothetically speaking

This I am assuming would have been the center channel but it is rated at 6ohm so i guess i need to skip.

So what am I looking at?

The Classix II Speaker kit * 5 (L/C/R + Surround)?
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