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post #1 of 32 Old 10-21-2013, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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The purpose of this thread is to document my listening room, equipment, and the listening room's audio performance.  It is not intended for feedback, although if you have any questions, I will be happy to answer them.
 
Listening Room Layout and Pictures
 
Note: Layout is not to scale.










































 

Room Treatments:
 
2'x4' Bass Traps (23 total, 4 RealTraps Mini-Traps, 17 GIK 244 Bass Traps, 2 GIK Monster Bass Traps)
2'x4' Full-Spectrum wall panels (5 total, GIK 242 Panels)
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Last edited by AustinJerry; 12-21-2014 at 11:41 AM.
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post #2 of 32 Old 10-21-2013, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Equipment List
 
Speakers (7.1 configuration):
 

 
 
Marantz 8801
MiniDSP DDRC-88A with Dirac Live
MiniDSP 2x4 balanced
Emotiva XPA-7
Oppo BDP-103
DirecTV HR-24 (2)
AppleTV 3
Sonos ZP90
Sony XBR65-X900a 4K Flat Panel
Sony FMP-X10 4K Media Player
Darbee Vision Darblet
APC H-15

 
How I spent my AV budget:
 
 

Note:  My philosophy is that ~50% of the AV budget should be spent on speakers.
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Last edited by AustinJerry; 04-22-2015 at 09:36 PM.
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post #3 of 32 Old 10-21-2013, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Room Response Characteristics (updated August 21, 2014)
 
Measured using REW 5.01 beta 17, UMIK-1 USB mic.  Noise floor measured using RTA is 50dB.
 
Frequency response:


 



 
Modal ringing:














Impulse Response:








 

Distortion:




Last edited by AustinJerry; 08-21-2014 at 09:02 PM.
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post #4 of 32 Old 10-21-2013, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Analysis - Benefits of Multiple Subwoofers
 
The purpose of this post is to show the interaction of multiple subs in the listening environment, and how careful placement and tuning can result in a significant improvement in bass response.  The subs used in this analysis are four Hsu Research ULS-15 sealed subs.  The subs are placed in the listening room as per the diagram in the first post in this thread.  The two front subs are at the 1/4 and 3/4 spots along the front wall, and the two rear subs are collocated at approximately the center of the back wall.  The two front subs are equidistant from the MLP, and are connected to the sub1 input on a MultEQ XT32 AVR with Sub EQ HT.  The two rear subs are also approximately equidistant from the MLP, on the Sub2 input on the AVR.  The two front subs are gain-matched to each other, and the two rear subs are gain-matched to each other.  However, the level of the rear subs is 5dB lower than the two front subs, because they are significantly closer to the MLP.
 
The measurement of the subs independent of each other, and as front and rear pairs, reveals that the in-room response (without room correction) is not very smooth.
 
Individual subs:
 

 

 

 

 
Sub Pairs:
 

 

 
However, when all fours subs are driven at the same time, we start to see advantages in the summed response:
 

 
And Audyssey room correction puts the final smoothing on the response:
 

 
And finally, combined response including center channel:
 

 
This analysis clearly shows the benefits of multiple subs in the listening environment.

To add some historical perspective, here is what the bass response looked like in October 2011, when I had only two subs, and no bass treatments in the listening room.



As you can see, it has been a long journey, and a successful one.
 
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Last edited by AustinJerry; 07-31-2014 at 05:15 PM.
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post #5 of 32 Old 10-21-2013, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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post #6 of 32 Old 10-21-2013, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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post #7 of 32 Old 11-01-2013, 01:40 PM
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post #8 of 32 Old 11-09-2013, 01:31 PM
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That has to sound incredible.
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post #9 of 32 Old 11-19-2013, 11:32 AM
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Hi Jerry,

Just curious, why do you have the L/R at +/- 45 degrees? That's pretty wide (usually 30 is plenty). Considering you also have wide speakers (at +/- 65) it does not seem you'd be lacking for width cues.

Deadwood Atmos theater [HTOM]
AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
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post #10 of 32 Old 11-19-2013, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Hi Jerry,

Just curious, why do you have the L/R at +/- 45 degrees? That's pretty wide (usually 30 is plenty). Considering you also have wide speakers (at +/- 65) it does not seem you'd be lacking for width cues.

 

Roger,

 

 

Perhaps you are miss-interpreting my drawing.

 

 

The front speakers are at an angle of 27.3 degrees, and the Wides are at an angle of 51.2 degrees, which is actually a narrower angle than the recommendation.

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post #11 of 32 Old 11-19-2013, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Roger,

Perhaps you are miss-interpreting my drawing.
Oops, yes, I did not notice the angles! I just plopped it into Corel and measured them. The drawing is, as they say, "not to scale." wink.gif

Sorry for my confusion.

Deadwood Atmos theater [HTOM]
AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
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post #12 of 32 Old 11-19-2013, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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No harm done.  It is just a PowerPoint drawing, so no way to draw it to scale.  I used to use AutoCAD when I was working, but don't want to spend the money for a personal license.  If you know of a good consumer-class (read:  inexpensive or free) CAD program, I would welcome the recommendation.  In the meantime, I determine angles by using a spreadsheet that calculates the angles from the distances of the legs of the triangle.

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post #13 of 32 Old 11-19-2013, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

No harm done.  It is just a PowerPoint drawing, so no way to draw it to scale.  I used to use AutoCAD when I was working, but don't want to spend the money for a personal license.  If you know of a good consumer-class (read:  inexpensive or free) CAD program, I would welcome the recommendation.  In the meantime, I determine angles by using a spreadsheet that calculates the angles from the distances of the legs of the triangle.
If you like to have the option for 3D rendering, try SweetHome3D. I found it much easier than Sketchup.

attachment.php?attachmentid=167670&d=1266632936
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Deadwood Atmos theater [HTOM]
AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
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post #14 of 32 Old 11-20-2013, 10:00 PM
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Here's your room translated to SweetHome3D



The project's file: Jerrys Room.zip 144k .zip file
Attached Files
File Type: zip Jerrys Room.zip (143.6 KB, 61 views)

Deadwood Atmos theater [HTOM]
AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
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post #15 of 32 Old 11-21-2013, 05:46 AM - Thread Starter
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post #16 of 32 Old 12-04-2013, 10:52 AM
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That is great. I am building mine now in Sweet Home it rocks!

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post #17 of 32 Old 12-31-2013, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Here's your room translated to SweetHome3D



The project's file: Jerrys Room.zip 144k .zip file

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Wow, I am impressed.  I need to download that software.  Thanks!

I am IMPRESSED as well!!! Sweet, indeed!
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post #18 of 32 Old 12-31-2013, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I still owe it to Roger to learn how to use that software. So many things on the to-do list!
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post #19 of 32 Old 01-23-2014, 01:43 PM
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I have finished my drawings. Even put my wife in one. Take a look. 

 

I have posted the source files as well.

 

http://files.snowsoftware.com/files.zip 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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post #20 of 32 Old 01-30-2014, 05:50 AM
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Great Looking (& sounding ) room, came here from the link in your sig & your suggestion in the REW thread about a month ago - trying to get caught up as we speak so I may join the discussion.. just started measuring a few weeks ago after a lot of lurking & learning..

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post #21 of 32 Old 03-18-2014, 07:22 PM
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Very good set-up ! I like it.
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post #22 of 32 Old 05-22-2014, 02:54 PM
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Great setup and seeing those graphs is very helpful and encouraging. Nice to see such good response after all the hard work you put in.

Big thanks for recommending the sweethome3d program... what great software. I was able to model the before and after of my room in no time. So much better than google sketch. Thanks again.

 


PSN - Hapi_Kilmore_v3
My 6.4.4 Living Room HT
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post #23 of 32 Old 06-04-2014, 09:02 AM
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Hey Austin, Nice work with the speakers! Just wondering if you can help me out with what you think is the best settings for 3D blu rays on the Sony x900.

Cheers Mate!!!

TV: SONY 65" 4K X900 - AVR: DENON AVR x4000 - AMP: ROTEL RMB 1585 5Ch 200w - OPPO 103D BD PLAYER
CENTRE: KEF Q600c - FRONT L/R: KEF Q900
SURROUND L/R: KEF Q300 - SURROUND BACK L/R: KEF Q900
SUB: SVS PC13-ULTRA
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post #24 of 32 Old 06-10-2014, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

If you like to have the option for 3D rendering, try SweetHome3D. I found it much easier than Sketchup.

attachment.php?attachmentid=167670&d=1266632936

Going to have to try this software as I have gotten some comments about my build thread not having a layout. Thanks!
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post #25 of 32 Old 01-23-2015, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Yes, I still owe it to Roger to learn how to use that software. So many things on the to-do list!
Just saw your dedicated thread now. Very nice. Do you by any chance have REW graphs (frequency/ETC/...) before/after treatment to show the difference they brought?

Also where in the pics you have following placed
2'x4' Full-Spectrum wall panels (5 total, GIK 242 Panels)
2 GIK Monster Bass Traps

thx.

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post #26 of 32 Old 01-27-2015, 02:16 PM
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Damn AustinJerry that is one beautiful setup you have. I would have bought the X900A myself but went with its 55inch sibling the 55W900A which like the X900A is a beautiful tv. IMHO the 2 best tv's made by Sony. Again though very nice setup.
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post #27 of 32 Old 02-15-2015, 09:41 PM
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Beautiful set up.

I was wondering if you might be able to share your process in choosing acoustic treatments. I am in the early stages of planning acoustic treatments, and am trying to figure out what I need.

Did you try to place as many bass traps as you could, given that you have 4 potent subs, or did you follow the REW measurements, or something else?
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post #28 of 32 Old 02-16-2015, 05:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazdoc View Post
Beautiful set up.

I was wondering if you might be able to share your process in choosing acoustic treatments. I am in the early stages of planning acoustic treatments, and am trying to figure out what I need.

Did you try to place as many bass traps as you could, given that you have 4 potent subs, or did you follow the REW measurements, or something else?
Treatments accomplish two things--they reduce bass resonance, and they tame reflections in the spectral region. The guidelines for treatments to control bass resonance are to 1) choose treatments designed specifically for the longer hass frequencies (which are generally thicker), and 2) to place the treatments in the most effective locations, at the intersection of multiple surfaces, e,g. room corners, wall to ceiling, etc. Also, the more traps, the more effective the resonance control.

Treatments for spectral reflections are different. The treatments themselves must be full-spectrum treatments, and they are placed at spots specifically associated with reflections. You can analyze room reflections using the REW ETC measurement.

There are threads here on AVS that provide more specific guidance on effective room treatment.
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post #29 of 32 Old 02-16-2015, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Treatments for spectral reflections are different. The treatments themselves must be full-spectrum treatments, and they are placed at spots specifically associated with reflections. You can analyze room reflections using the REW ETC measurement.

There are threads here on AVS that provide more specific guidance on effective room treatment.
Thanks. The trouble with many of the posts on here is that often the advice is specific for a that applicaiton, rather than unifying ideas. Although I have been reading up on hometheatershack, the guide that you have in your sig ( Getting Started with REW: A Step-by-Step Guide ) has been the most helpful and concise guide for using and understanding the REW I could find. Thank you very much for putting it together.
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post #30 of 32 Old 04-01-2015, 10:46 PM
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Jerry,
A technical question for you. To calculate the LF/RF speaker angles, did you do the following. Assuming adjacent right angle triangles at MLP on the chart in post #1 , did you compute:

Adjacent = 108"/2 = 54" (i.e. 1/2 the distance between your LF and RF speakers, assuming your center channel and MLP represents 0 degrees)
Hypotenuse = 108" (distance from center of LF to MLP)

Angle (360 degrees) = Inverse cosine of (54"/108")= 60
To put on a +/- 180 degrees scale, that becomes 60/2 = 30 degrees


Note that this is the physical angle, not complicated by things like differences in speaker level or calculation of electronic delays.

I think this is right, but just confirming to do some room brainstorming of my own.

Audio Gear: Sherwood R-972 (Trinnov Altitude - on order), NAD M27 amp
Display: Panasonic VT50, Lumagen Radiance Mini
Misc.: Oppo 103, Apple TV, JRiver ID NUC
PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds; HSU ULS-15 subs (2)

Last edited by sdrucker; 04-01-2015 at 11:02 PM.
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