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Old 11-17-2013, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi all,

 

Hope I'm posting to the correct place.

 

I have a 55" plasma, PS3, Xbox360 and a few other components I'd like to consolidate through a receiver for sound and video. More importantly I'd like to get back into having a decent surround sound system, I've ruled out buying a HTIB. From everything I've ready about the sacrifice in performance most have they aren't worth the price.  I've given myself a budget of $1000  for starters and everywhere I've read states to start with the receiver and a stereo set of speakers - set the foundation.

 

My dilemma is that my father-in-law is looking to downsize and he had offered to sell his mint (2) Infinity Overture 3's, (3) Overture 1's and his Yamaha rx-v2092 reciever for ~ $1000. These sound incredible and I don't think I'll find a better deal but that is why I'm here asking the experts here.

 

What are your thoughts? Is there a way to make the rx-v2092 compatible with PS3/HDMI inputs without sacrificing fidelity? I don't feel I'll get a receiver with nearly the same quality for the price but it seems I'm missing a lot of the features I need with the Yamaha...

 

Thank you for taking the time time out of your day to ready my post.

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Old 11-17-2013, 11:17 AM
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Hi all,

Hope I'm posting to the correct place.

I have a 55" plasma, PS3, Xbox360 and a few other components I'd like to consolidate through a receiver for sound and video. More importantly I'd like to get back into having a decent surround sound system, I've ruled out buying a HTIB. From everything I've ready about the sacrifice in performance most have they aren't worth the price.  I've given myself a budget of $1000  for starters and everywhere I've read states to start with the receiver and a stereo set of speakers - set the foundation.

My dilemma is that my father-in-law is looking to downsize and he had offered to sell his mint (2) Infinity Overture 3's, (3) Overture 1's and his Yamaha rx-v2092 reciever for ~ $1000. These sound incredible and I don't think I'll find a better deal but that is why I'm here asking the experts here.

What are your thoughts? Is there a way to make the rx-v2092 compatible with PS3/HDMI inputs without sacrificing fidelity? I don't feel I'll get a receiver with nearly the same quality for the price but it seems I'm missing a lot of the features I need with the Yamaha...

Thank you for taking the time time out of your day to ready my post.

Well it's not an awful deal, but not the best either. That receiver is ANCIENT - as in 15 years old. You can't do real 7.1 on it, as their is an archaic " front effects channel " option on it that somehow uses an archaic Yamaha dsp mode .. I dunno, but it's not worth anything anymore I'm afraid. The speakers are a bit better, and through some research saw some Overture 3's going for 300 dollars earlier this year - and the 1's seem to have been popular back in the day - but honestly I think there are far FAR better options for 1000 dollars.

Here's one: Receiver: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0077V88W2/ref=asc_df_B0077V88W22833417?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=cnet-ce-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395093&creativeASIN=B0077V88W2 - 395 plus free shipping - great deal
match them up with the VERY well respected Andrew Jones speaker line from Pioneer

and: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/pioneer-5-1-4-floor-speaker-each/5086937.p?id=1218610014331&skuId=5086937&ref=06&loc=01&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=5086937&extensionType={adtype}:{network}&s_kwcid=PTC!pla!{keyword}!{matchtype}!{adwords_producttargetid}!{network}!{ifmobile:M}!{creative}&kpid=5086937&k_clickid=0d65b3ce-4c00-01c8-a2a3-00004a3846ac&gclid=CJ6ivei07LoCFZNlOgodEBgAWA - Fronts 125 + free shipping

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/pioneer-dual-4-center-channel-speaker/5086891.p?id=1218610015437&skuId=5086891&cmp=RMX&ky=28oPyDFv0KHcisHwQcZfO0qg5PUU1VPjs
99 dollar center with free shipping

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/pioneer-4-bookshelf-speakers-pair/5086955.p?id=1218610014045&skuId=5086955&cmp=RMX&ky=28oPyDFv0KHcisHwQcZfO0qg5PUU1VPjs
130 plus free shipping .. You could get 2 sets ( 4 speakers ) of these and give yourself a 7 channel system OR get one set and:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/bic-america-12-430-watt-powered-subwoofer/2750541.p?id=1218348487515&skuId=2750541
which will give you a 5.1 system. The sub is a pretty integral part of any decent system. While the BIC subs are generally a very good budget sub, and I think you'll be impressed with it.. if you wanted to save up some more money there are better options. For instance if you got the above 5 channel speaker set it would come to 755 plus tax ( I don't know what tax is like in the states ) but say you have 200 left over, if you saved an extra 300 that would move you up to an SVS PB 1000 sub that would knock your socks off:
http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box/pb-1000#.UokHzOKlrbo

That would give you a kick ass system in my opinion - great for games, home theater and music - You're buddies will love it.
Of course the one thing that is unquantifiable is how much NOT buying it from your father in law will cost you in the long run. But really there are much better options.

Cheers!
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Old 11-17-2013, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks a million for the insight, Sean!

I live in a metro area with access to Best Buy. Say I picked up the reciever there as well (if within reason on price). What would I be losing from moving from the NR616 to the NR626? Any other similar receivers worthy from Best Buy? The spec and feature sheets say one thing but I appreciate the real world input!

Thanks again!
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Old 11-17-2013, 12:17 PM
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Thanks a million for the insight, Sean!

I live in a metro area with access to Best Buy. Say I picked up the reciever there as well (if within reason on price). What would I be losing from moving from the NR616 to the NR626? Any other similar receivers worthy from Best Buy? The spec and feature sheets say one thing but I appreciate the real world input!

Thanks again!

You wouldn't be losing anything, the 626 has more decoding options on it, and is the better receiver - however I don't know how much they'll ding you for one right now. If it's in the same price range DO pick up the 626. You could also look at the Denon line of products, but if that's the case I wouldn't go through best buy unless you see a clear out 1913 or 2313 model from last year - which I don't. Your best bet in that case would to be to go through AVS science ( this site ). They're an authorized Denon dealer and will give you a good deal on last years model if there is any in stock. They'll give you a good deal on this year's Denon's for that matter. Call JDsmoothie: "JD" – AVScience Sales, 585-645-1006 or 877-823-4452 ext 103 Monday – Friday 5pm – 9pm EST (weekends when on the forum) Authorized dealer for Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, Yamaha, Klipsch, Def Tech, He'll give you a price less then MRSP I guarantee it. So you could ask about the 626, or the Denon E 400 ( this years 7.1 ) or see if you could get last years 1913 or 2313. You can also check out the deals at accessories 4 less - many users around here have gone through them. They've got a refurb Denon e 400 for 350: http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVRE400/DENON-AVR-E400-7.1-4K-3D-Networking-Receiver-Airplay/1.html which is a pretty good deal. Refurbs come with a 1 year warranty, but I think you can add a square trade warranty for an extra 2 years ( which will equal what the new warranty would be - 3 years ) for 34.99, bringing your total to 364.99 plus tax. Come to think of it - that's a REALLY good deal - I'd take that over the 616. In addition, the 616 has the very basic 2eq Auddesy room correction system, where as the e 400 has MultiEQ which is a big step up in that department, probably giving you slightly better sound in your room.
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Old 11-17-2013, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Picking up from where I left off in the thread - I went out to Bestbuy and well, frankly - it went as expected.

 

Final question of the day:

 

Denon e400 -$329

Focal Chorus 717v (pair) - $749

Focal CC701 Center channel - $350

 

If I order the center channel and main pair they throw in a MS Carnival 9 subwoofer for 'free' per their specials- $250 value (read good reviews on it as well)

 

I have a pair of JBL floor standing speakers left over at the folks that I could use for rear surround until I decided on something different.

 

~$1350 total

 

OR:

 

Denon e400- $329

Pioneer FS52 (pair) - $250

Pioneer SP-C22 (center) - $99

Pioneer SP-BS22 (rear surround) - $129

BIC America 430 12" woofer - $180

 

~$987 total

 

 

Your money, your dollar - which way do you go?

 

Thanks a million!

 

Jake

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Old 11-17-2013, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doose View Post

Picking up from where I left off in the thread - I went out to Bestbuy and well, frankly - it went as expected.

Final question of the day:

Denon e400 -$329
Focal Chorus 717v (pair) - $749
Focal CC701 Center channel - $350

If I order the center channel and main pair they throw in a MS Carnival 9 subwoofer for 'free' per their specials- $250 value (read good reviews on it as well)

I have a pair of JBL floor standing speakers left over at the folks that I could use for rear surround until I decided on something different.

~$1350 total

OR:

Denon e400- $329
Pioneer FS52 (pair) - $250
Pioneer SP-C22 (center) - $99
Pioneer SP-BS22 (rear surround) - $129
BIC America 430 12" woofer - $180

~$987 total


Your money, your dollar - which way do you go?

Thanks a million!

Jake

That subwoofer doesn't look very good. I've seen the specs on it... 100 watts = underpowerd. Not to mention it doesn't say whether it's 100 watts peak or rms. It could be 50 watts with 100 peak... It also says it has a frequency response down to 25hz - but doesn't give a specification for how many db down it is at the point. 25hz at -6db? -10db? - don't bother with it. They're giving it to you for free for a reason - it sucks. Sometimes people give good reviews because they have to justify their spending money on something, and even THINK it sounds good - when in fact it sounds like crap and they don't know what they're talking about.

As far as the Focal's go... I did some research on them. They have good sensitivity, 91.5 at 8ohms, which means they're easy to drive. Your receiver won't need much power to make them play nice and loud. Focal is a world class speaker manufacturer, and if you went in that direction, I wouldn't fault you. That being said, they are the lowest end of Focal's lineup. I had a look on Focal's website, http://www.focal.com/en/181-chorus-700 and couldn't find the 717's anywhere. I suspect this is because they have been discontinued, and have been replaced with the 714's etc. This doesn't mean they're a bad speaker, just means it's an older model. The price isn't bad - but I think you'd be better served with the Andrew Jones line up. If you have the extra money to spend, ( and it seems you do as you were thinking about picking up the best buy deal for 1350 ) I would forgo the BIC and get an SVS PB1000. As I said it's got rave reviews and is quite arguably the best sub you can get for 500 dollars. This would still put you under what best buy wanted to sell you.

Your other option is to keep an eye out for used speakers. For 800 dollars you can sometimes get some pretty decent deals. Really though, between the two I'd go for Andrew Jones. There is another option, the ARX A5 speakers have been blowing people away. They won a competition at Home Theater Shack http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/two-channel-audio/69421-official-1-000-speaker-evaluation-home-audition-event-results.html - for best speaker under 1000, and everyone who buys them seems to instantly fall in love with them. In fact they beat out the Focal 716v's. If you're willing to use your JBL's as surrounds for the short term ( you WILL need to change them up as the different speaker voicing will be noticeable - pans from movie sequences might sound out of sync etc ) .. you could purchase the A5 http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php?p=arx-a5-floorstanding-loudspeaker&products_id=227& and A2 Center http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php?p=arx-a2rx-c-center-lcr-loudspeaker&products_id=66& for a total of 989.. then either use your extra to pic up a BIC sub - this one would actually be my choice between the one you have listed and the SVS I suggested: http://www.amazon.com/BIC-PL-200-Acoustech-Platinum-Series/dp/B001W3FXAQ that would bring you to about 1350 again with the ARX Floorstanders and center and Sub. Edit: Sorry that last suggestion doesn't incorporate your receiver into the equation - so that's out.

As far as bang for the buck goes, and if you want to complete your system now ( I know I HATE waiting myself ) - go for the Pioneers - the E400 ( I'm surprised best buy is offering it at that low of a price, better double check the model ) and the subs in this order of awesomeness 1. SVS PB100 2. Bic PL200 3. Bic America 430 ...

Cheers!
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Old 11-17-2013, 10:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Again, thanks.

 

I'm going with the Andrew Jones Pioneer fronts, bookshelf's and center. I'll get the denon off of accessories4less and just debating on if I want to spend that much on the sub or not. I keep asking myself if it's worth it to spend that much on a sub woofer. Then I remember competing in IASCA as a teenager. You prefer ported over sealed?

 

I greatly appreciate your help, kudos! I'll be sure to report back in a few days :)

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Old 11-17-2013, 10:35 PM
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Again, thanks.

I'm going with the Andrew Jones Pioneer fronts, bookshelf's and center. I'll get the denon off of accessories4less and just debating on if I want to spend that much on the sub or not. I keep asking myself if it's worth it to spend that much on a sub woofer. Then I remember competing in IASCA as a teenager. You prefer ported over sealed?

I greatly appreciate your help, kudos! I'll be sure to report back in a few days smile.gif

The sub is one of THE most important aspects of you HT. The difference between a good one and an average on is huge. If you were running the towers for 2 channel music it would be a different story, but seeing as how you're doing HT - I would abide by the adage " buy the best subwoofer you can afford ". In this context it's the PB100 from SVS. You're spending the extra 300 over the basic bic or 150 over then PL200 will be huge. The PB1000 can dig down below 20hz, which is GREAT. In addition, SVS has arguably the best customer service and warranty's there are, - 5 years - and if you decide to upgrade to a bigger sub ( the pb1000 is quite big as it is ) within the first year SVS will take the sub back and credit the full value of the sub towards the next step up. That being said I doubt you'll need to - the PB1000 will be more then enough I'm sure. Take it home, set it up, put on War of the Worlds, and hang on smile.gif - then join the " master list of BASS " thread here to see what goodies movies you've watched before have that you've never experienced. If you're going with the Andrew Jones - go all in and buy the SVS. I Guarantee you won't be disappointed. https://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box/pb-1000

With respect to ported vs sealed .. you will get much better extension with a ported sub. There was a time when sealed subs were much better for music ( tighter bass ) but over the last few years with new sub designs, the ported subs have caught up. In fact with a quality ported sub - such as the one I'm suggesting to you, I seriously doubt you'd notice a difference. I have two ported SVS subs - the PC12's, and they are as tight as I could possibly want them. So don't fret the ported vs. sealed - get a quality ported and let her rip!
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Old 11-17-2013, 10:38 PM
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The sub is one of THE most important aspects of you HT. The difference between a good one and an average on is huge. If you were running the towers for 2 channel music it would be a different story, but seeing as how you're doing HT - I would abide by the adage " buy the best subwoofer you can afford ". In this context it's the PB100 from SVS. You're spending the extra 300 over the basic bic or 150 over then PL200 will be huge. The PB1000 can dig down below 20hz, which is GREAT. In addition, SVS has arguably the best customer service and warranty's there are, - 5 years - and if you decide to upgrade to a bigger sub ( the pb1000 is quite big as it is ) within the first year SVS will take the sub back and credit the full value of the sub towards the next step up. That being said I doubt you'll need to - the PB1000 will be more then enough I'm sure. Take it home, set it up, put on War of the Worlds, and hang on smile.gif - then join the " master list of BASS " thread here to see what goodies movies you've watched before have that you've never experienced. If you're going with the Andrew Jones - go all in and buy the SVS. I Guarantee you won't be disappointed. https://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box/pb-1000

With respect to ported vs sealed .. you will get much better extension with a ported sub. There was a time when sealed subs were much better for music ( tighter bass ) but over the last few years with new sub designs, the ported subs have caught up. In fact with a quality ported sub - such as the one I'm suggesting to you, I seriously doubt you'd notice a difference. I have two ported SVS subs - the PC12's, and they are as tight as I could possibly want them. So don't fret the ported vs. sealed - get a quality ported and let her rip!

PS don't forget the extra 2 year warranty from A4less at 34.99 - it's worth it just in case.
Oops I quoted myself - make sure to look at the last post as well - tongue.gif
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I received the speakers and sub yesterday - hooked them up to an old Sony HTIB receiver and was blown away by the sub. I played GTAV and I could almost feel the silenced rifle shots - it was incredible (PB-1000)!

 

Today I received the Denon AVR-E400, hooked up the center, front r/l and sub. I ran the Audyssey MultiEQ set-up and it recognized everything. I set the LFE crossover to 80hz in the receiver, the volume is set at 1/2, the crossover is 200hz, and the phase is untouched on the sub.

 

I seem to have really dropped off with the bass with this set-up and I could use a little guidance. The awe inspiring crashes/explosions/shots are gone.he same silenced rifle shot is missing nearly all bass, just what seems the front r/l are producing and a very little bit more from the sub.

 

I've tried a couple different speaker placements, I've tried other source inputs including the FM tuner on the receiver to validate it wasn't an input producing the lack of bass.

 

I should also mention that I'm using a preout/LFE with an SVS cable for the Denon receiver, yesterday when I listened wired it stereo to the old HTIB receiver. I kept the volume in stereo on the sub below 25%.

 

 

I appreciate all of your help. I am picking up the nuisances in music that have been lost to me for a decade. Kudos.

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Old 11-21-2013, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doose View Post

I received the speakers and sub yesterday - hooked them up to an old Sony HTIB receiver and was blown away by the sub. I played GTAV and I could almost feel the silenced rifle shots - it was incredible (PB-1000)!

Today I received the Denon AVR-E400, hooked up the center, front r/l and sub. I ran the Audyssey MultiEQ set-up and it recognized everything. I set the LFE crossover to 80hz in the receiver, the volume is set at 1/2, the crossover is 200hz, and the phase is untouched on the sub.

I seem to have really dropped off with the bass with this set-up and I could use a little guidance. The awe inspiring crashes/explosions/shots are gone.he same silenced rifle shot is missing nearly all bass, just what seems the front r/l are producing and a very little bit more from the sub.

I've tried a couple different speaker placements, I've tried other source inputs including the FM tuner on the receiver to validate it wasn't an input producing the lack of bass.

I should also mention that I'm using a preout/LFE with an SVS cable for the Denon receiver, yesterday when I listened wired it stereo to the old HTIB receiver. I kept the volume in stereo on the sub below 25%.


I appreciate all of your help. I am picking up the nuisances in music that have been lost to me for a decade. Kudos.

Glad you like the sub - it's a beast... Go into Auddessy and make sure that all your speakers are set to "small".. confirm that on your crossovers are set to 80 in your AVR. Sometimes Auddessy will set your fronts to Large, which means no LFE is directed to the sub from the front channels. When you say the volume is set at half, you mean on the back of the pB-1000? go into auddessy settings and see what level it set your sub too... ie, is it -5, + 7db etc... it should be in the + 3 to minus 3 db for best results. If it's set to more then plus or minus 5 you need to adjust the volume appropriately on the back of the sub and re run setup. So if your settings say -7db for your lfe, you need to turn your sub volume down a bit on the back and rerun. It seems counter intuitive to turn down the volume on the sub but its the right thing to do. Also, double check your lfe cable is plugged into the proper input on the back of the sub. when you say crossover is at 200, you mean the knob on the back of the sub? just turn that all the way up ( to the right) as the crossover setting in the avr will take care of the cut off frequencies. Go into Auddessy settings when you've done that and make sure to turn dynamic volume ON - and dynamic compression to light, or off. By default it sets it to medium. Get rid of that lol. You can use medium or heavy for not waking your kids late at night, otherwise don't bother with it. Try those things and let me know.
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Old 11-21-2013, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks!  I took the grille off and noticed the LED was red, looked in the AVR settings and saw the front speakers were set to large, switched them to small and the LED turned blue for receiving a signal.  The subwoofer db was set at +2 in the AVR. I also turned dynamic compression off (was medium). The crossover on the sub is 200HZ, 80HZ in the AVR.

 

With those changes - If I turn the sub volume from 1/4 to 2/3 on the physical sub I get the 'umph' again!

 

A remote toggle would really come in handy for the volume. Unless there is there a better way to control it? I'm probably going to return the 2 meter cable and get a much longer one. The sub is currently against a neighboring wall of a duplex and I doubt the neighbors are nearly as impressed as I. :)

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Old 11-21-2013, 08:35 PM
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Thanks!  I took the grille off and noticed the LED was red, looked in the AVR settings and saw the front speakers were set to large, switched them to small and the LED turned blue for receiving a signal.  The subwoofer db was set at +2 in the AVR. I also turned dynamic compression off (was medium). The crossover on the sub is 200HZ, 80HZ in the AVR.

With those changes - If I turn the sub volume from 1/4 to 2/3 on the physical sub I get the 'umph' again!

A remote toggle would really come in handy for the volume. Unless there is there a better way to control it? I'm probably going to return the 2 meter cable and get a much longer one. The sub is currently against a neighboring wall of a duplex and I doubt the neighbors are nearly as impressed as I. smile.gif

+ 2 is great - you got that after re-running setup after adjusting the volume correct? you didn't see that THEN adjust the volume did you? Just to be clear, you want that +/- 3db AFTER running setup smile.gif.. Once you've got it in that sweet spot, the best way to adjust the sub volume is to go into the menu to add a bit of bass. Many people like to run their subs a little "hot".. see what works for you. After setup - when it's within that -/+ 3 db rating, then you can boost your bass a bit. that way your setup settings will always be correct, easy to forget exactly where the volume was set originally on the sub.

How do the Pioneers sound? There's some reading for you to do about speaker location etc - if you want to get things optimal. Perhaps you already have smile.gif Here's a link to dolby recommendations http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/setup/connection-guide/home-theater-speaker-guide//index.html .. Also, I don't know where you have your sub placed, but the best way ( other then having an spl meter or using a measurement mic ) to get your sub placed in the optimal position is to do the " sub crawl ": http://lifehacker.com/5751818/use-the-subwoofer-crawl-to-fine-tune-your-speaker-setup ... The better your system - the more you'll find you want to fine tune it. You've got a nice speakers and a great sub now ... make sure you place them optimally to take advantage of their superior engineering smile.gif

PS. - I'm happy to give you advice, but you can also call SVS and they'll happily give you advice about your new sub and ideal set up. They take customer service VERY seriously - don't be afraid to call them. I have - they're great guys down there.
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Old 11-29-2013, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Sean,

Thanks for the tips. I picked up my old JBL HLS620 floor standing speakers my folks apparently did not sell at a rummage sale as they said they did (sticker was still on for $40)!

Anyway, worth using them to make a 7.1 config? The set up is not in a huge room so I may be pushing it a bit! Thoughts? I was thinking of sketching up a diagram. Also, on phone, sorry for grammar and typos.

Jake
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Old 11-29-2013, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Doose View Post

Sean,

Thanks for the tips. I picked up my old JBL HLS620 floor standing speakers my folks apparently did not sell at a rummage sale as they said they did (sticker was still on for $40)!

Anyway, worth using them to make a 7.1 config? The set up is not in a huge room so I may be pushing it a bit! Thoughts? I was thinking of sketching up a diagram. Also, on phone, sorry for grammar and typos.

Jake

Well I don't know exactly what your room dimensions are, I certainly like my 7.2 ( well 9.2 but you know) ... The biggest thing for the rears is to make sure you've some separation between your main listening position and the speakers. I'd say you'd want 3 or 4 feet behind you at least. As far as your speakers go, you might as well throw them there ( if you've got separation ) in the interim basis - but when you've got the extra money together for another set of bookshelves I'd definitely go with a matching set. It's integral if your listening to all channel stereo, and might or might not be an issue for movies and games. Since they're different materials and sensitivities they might not be fluid when panning around, so for instance if a jet was flying past in a surround mix it might sound different when it hit your JBL's - which would pull you out of the movie experience ( once you noticed) and that's no fun. Your auddessy should do a pretty decent job of leveling them out as far as the actual volume goes - but it won't be perfect. Best bet is to wire them up and throw on some 7.1 blue ray's and test it for yourself. If anything - for me at least - I'd constantly be wondering if I was hearing what I was SUPPOSED to hear from the mix, which right or wrong would make me want to match them for peace of mind. They're 8 ohms and fairly sensitive so that won't be an issue. But yeah - I'd get matching surrounds when you can - and they're so reasonably priced, why not?
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