Which brand cables to get for 2 core shielded balanced line cables? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 01-06-2014, 04:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Folks,
Cables are where the most mis-information is floating around...I'm really not sure which ones to go for...

I'd like to get some help from forum members on which cables offer the best price/performance.

My processer is a Motu Ultralite Mk3 (Hybrid) used as a USB DAC outputs are balanced 1/4" TRS.
I intend to use Amphenol ACPS-GB-AU or Neutrik NP3X-B for the TRS plugs.

My speakers are Neumann KH310 for 5 channels - subwoofer is still not decided. I intend to use Neutrik XLR connectors.


I will need about 50m of 2 core shielded balanced line cabling...
Which of the below brands do is highly recommended?

Belden (USA)
Mogami (USA)
Klotz (Germany)
Sommer (Germany)
Eurocable (Italy)
ProEl (Italy)

Any other brands?


Some factors I've been advised to consider:
1. Oxygen Free Copper
2. Number of strands in each core
3. Whether it is rated for AES/EBU
4. Should I get microphone cables or balanced line cables?

Anything else I should know or consider?

Thanks in advance for all responses...
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post #2 of 15 Old 01-06-2014, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intgenx View Post

Which...brands
Any recognized name brand should be fine as long as it has adequate shield.
Quote:
Oxygen Free Copper
You won't hear a difference from ETP.
Quote:
Number of strands in each core
Only revelant for flexibility of cable.
Quote:
Whether it is rated for AES/EBU
Irrelevant for an analog connection.
Quote:
Should I get microphone cables or balanced line cables?
Balanced.
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post #3 of 15 Old 01-07-2014, 05:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the response...Colm

I wasn't even sure if I was posting in the right sub-forum...as there ought to be a "Cables and connectors" sub-forum like anything else
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Originally Posted by Colm View Post

Any recognized name brand should be fine as long as it has adequate shield.
You won't hear a difference from ETP.
Only relevant for flexibility of cable.
Irrelevant for an analog connection.
Balanced.

My locally available choices are Belden, Klotz and Sommer.

Shield: How will I know if it has adequate shield? Which published spec would identify that?

OFC: I don't understand what ETP here is?

Thickness/strands: What is the thickness of the core I should be looking for?
What capacitance? Impedance?

AES/EBU: If price is not a factor - I'm being told AES/EBU rated cables are desgined for low signal loss and so should be better even for analog signals?
How true is this?

Mic vs Line: What is the difference between mic cables and balanced line cables?
I'm guessing line cables cannot be used for mic level signals but mic cables can be used for line level signals?
Is using balanced mic cables going to be better in any way than balanced line cables?
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post #4 of 15 Old 01-07-2014, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intgenx View Post

My locally available choices are Belden, Klotz and Sommer.
Belden is good, 1800F would do the job i you want an AES/EBU cable. The regular cables are cheaper and will work as well for analog. No experience with the other brands.
Quote:
Shield: How will I know if it has adequate shield? Which published spec would identify that?
Depends on the environment. If you are in a high RFI environment, maybe 95%+ copper braid or serve, or 100% foil. But considering your cables are audio, not digital, and the shield isn't very effective at audio frequencies, probably none at all. Belden is offering unshielded twisted pair for balanced lines now like 1353A.
Quote:
...ETP...
Electrolytic Tough Pitch copper, the copper that most electrical wire is made from.
Quote:
...thickness...
24 AWG is fine. The cable is carrying almost no current.
Quote:
What capacitance? Impedance?
Lower capacitance is better, but for reasonable length runs it isn't worth worrying about. You won't hear a difference. Impedance is primarily a factor of cable length. So, not a lot you can do about it.
Quote:
I'm being told AES/EBU rated cables are desgined for low signal loss and so should be better even for analog signals?
You won't hear a difference. The main difference is that the AES/EBU cables have a characteristic impedance that matches the requirements for the digital interface. Characteristic impedance is not an issue for analog audio because the cable is not operating as a transmission line.
Quote:
Mic vs Line: What is the difference between mic cables and balanced line cables?
Two kinds of lines are used for microphones: balanced (twisted pair, with or without a shield) and unbalanced (single wire with shield). The same is true for line level audio. Balanced lines have better noise rejection. Microphone cables are typically more flexible than other audio cables.
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post #5 of 15 Old 01-08-2014, 05:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Colm...

There is a new wrinkle now...

One of my dealers is offering a cable that can carry both power and signals... using a 4 core wire... (2 cores to carry signal and 2 cores to carry power)

This will especially be ideal for me to connect the Active Speakers - since I just have to run a single cable - particularly to the surrounds... which will make the job a lot neater...
and obviously the 2 cores to the speakers will be terminated with XLR connectors and the 2 cores to the power will be with the appropriate power jacks.

What are the demerits of sending both signal and power in the same cable?
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post #6 of 15 Old 01-08-2014, 11:48 AM
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What you would like to do is exactly what we try to avoid. Running power in parallel in close proximity to signal will couple noise from the power line onto the signal line. The longer the run, the worse it will be. Balanced lines are good at rejecting noise, but are not perfect. And at power frequencies, a shield won't do much to prevent it. Also, the power wires have to be sized appropriately, and I am not going to get into that.
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post #7 of 15 Old 01-09-2014, 03:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Could u comment on the attached Digital-Power hybrid cable?

http://shop.klotz-ais.com/cgi-bin/quickorder/lshop.cgi?action=showdetail&artnum=HD01PC_&wkid=2004g&ls=e

Klotz - HD01PC15

can this be used... for analog signals without any interference / noise?
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post #8 of 15 Old 01-09-2014, 12:04 PM
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No. See my previous post.
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post #9 of 15 Old 01-12-2014, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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How is Canare - quality comparable to Belden or is it in a higher league?
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post #10 of 15 Old 01-12-2014, 02:50 PM
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The quality is comparable. You won't hear a difference.
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post #11 of 15 Old 01-16-2014, 04:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm simply amazed at the level of misinformation or half-information floating around... and that just suits or is even encouraged by many companies as they seem to be making and marketing products not just for every budget level but also for every ignorance level....


Has anyone used an AES/EBU rated cable to carry Analog signals and noticed or measured any difference?
Or at the very least are they in theory supposed to be better for any signal be it digital or analog than non AES cables?


btw: what do you think of the attached white paper from Canare?
http://www.canare.com/UploadedDocuments/A%20Technical%20Paper%20-%20Evaluating%20Microphone%20Cable%20Perfrmance%20and%20Specifications.pdf

I'm thinking I'll go with the Canare Star Quad...
http://www.canare.com/UploadedDocuments/Cat11_p35.pdf

any other similar products from competitors - that I should consider?
Price is not a factor - but pro-quality and good performance is...
hype is not a factor - but good reputation among the pros and those in the know is a must....
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post #12 of 15 Old 01-16-2014, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intgenx View Post

I'm simply amazed at the level of misinformation or half-information floating around...
It is really pretty simple. It all comes down to resistance, capacitance, inductance, shield, and consistency of construction of the pair.
Quote:
...and that just suits or is even encouraged by many companies as they seem to be making and marketing products not just for every budget level but also for every ignorance level....
Cable companies produce a variety of cables for a variety of needs. An educated user should have no trouble figuring out what to use.
Quote:
...AES/EBU rated cable,,,are they in theory supposed to be better for any signal be it digital or analog than non AES cables?
They are built to deliver a particular characteristic impedance required for the AES/EBU interface. The characteristic impedance is irrelevant for analog audio because it doesn't operate as a transmission line. It is fine as far as it goes.
Quote:
I'm thinking I'll go with the Canare Star Quad..
That is fine. Just be aware of the trade-offs. But the odds are you won't hear a difference from single pair.
Quote:
hype is not a factor - but good reputation among the pros and those in the know is a must....
The pros here go with Belden, Mogami, Canare, etc... Single pair is most often used.
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post #13 of 15 Old 01-19-2014, 02:42 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm thinking I'll go with one of the below AES/EBU cables with dual (Braided and Foil) shield.

Belden 1696A
Klotz AEY122
Klotz OT206YS/B
Klotz OT206P
Sommer CMCK02
Sommer SC-CarboKab 225

Any other AES/EBU cables with dual shield?

Any thoughts?
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post #14 of 15 Old 01-23-2014, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Folks,
Its time to pull the trigger and the finalists are:

Klotz - OT206Y
Belden - 1696A
Sommer - SC-SemiColon 2
Gotham - 10601 - GAC2 AES

Pl. vote for your preferred selection.
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post #15 of 15 Old 01-24-2014, 05:21 AM
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Belden.

I think most members from North America are most familiar with Belden, compared with the other brands.

I've never heard mention of the other brands, in this forum. I fear your poll results may be skewed.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha

Give a monkey a brain and he'll swear he's the center of the universe. -Fishbone
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