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post #1 of 33 Old 02-27-2014, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi all, newbie from Ireland here and I could do with some help. I'm starting a travelling inflatable Cinema tent for Kids parties/adult movie nights. The tent will seat around 20 and will be 7meters long 5 meters wide and 4.5 meters high. Money is tight so I've gone for the Benq 1070 projector which fits my Budget. In order for this to work I will need as large a projection I can to give it a real movie experience feel. I've worked out that my screen will need to be 528cm diagonal( 259cm high 460cm long) and the projector will be 600cm from the screen. I plan to use a blu ray dvd player with a home cinema sound system. My problem is that I will need to build a mobile screen which will have to be capable of being packed away in limited space. I checked YouTube and found a clip of a dude using white spandex/Polyester to make a portable screen pulled over plastic piping.. Can anyone give advise on what is truly the best material I could use for showing HD movies this way. I have thought about silver spandex base layer with a brilliant white quality spandex/polyester layer over this.Ive no Idea if this would make a difference but I need the picture to be as good as possible. Anyone with any input, advise or possible pitfalls I am not thinking of?

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post #2 of 33 Old 02-27-2014, 01:25 PM
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Have you seen the inflatable screen setups? Assuming your events would be at night, and not in rainy weather, an open-air theater would be a lot easier...

Example:

inflatable_screen_16x9_aeropro.jpg

from www.outdoor-movies.com
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post #3 of 33 Old 02-27-2014, 02:02 PM
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I'm going to be getting an inflatable screen for my backyard maybe this summer! I'm not sure I'll get to go that big though rolleyes.gif

That screen is awsomely huge jautor! biggrin.gif
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post #4 of 33 Old 02-27-2014, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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This is not an option in Ireland we get 4 weeks good weather if were lucky. Its going to have to be within my inflatable tent and if we get a run of good weather this might be a plan.

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post #5 of 33 Old 02-27-2014, 03:09 PM
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[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by gec5741 View Post

That screen is awsomely huge jautor! biggrin.gif

Not me or my screen! cool.gif
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This is not an option in Ireland we get 4 weeks good weather if were lucky. Its going to have to be within my inflatable tent and if we get a run of good weather this might be a plan.

I wouldn't use the inflatable inside a tent. But one with a frame stabilized with some sandbags would work.

http://www.elitescreens.com/index.php/en/products/portable-68272/26-elite-quickstand#4-dimensions
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post #6 of 33 Old 02-27-2014, 03:48 PM
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if you can only afford a 2000 lumen projector, you better scale down your screen size. Even in total darkness, there won't be much light left by the time you spread that across a 17' diagonal screen from over 19' away.
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post #7 of 33 Old 02-27-2014, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Price for this is close to $500 and that's before shipping and Tax/Vat to Ireland so again not an option. I feel that DIY is the cheapest and most suitable way for me. Im pullin my hair out on the internet trying to get answers.

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post #8 of 33 Old 02-27-2014, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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This is my problem the Benq guide says it can project at this distance so this is all I have to go by. If I go much smaller than my original screen size my cinema tent risks becoming just a big t.v in a tent rather than a Backyard Cinema experience. Does anyone have any recommendations for any other projector within reason that might do the job better?

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post #9 of 33 Old 02-27-2014, 04:12 PM
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Price for this is close to $500 and that's before shipping and Tax/Vat to Ireland so again not an option. I feel that DIY is the cheapest and most suitable way for me. Im pullin my hair out on the internet trying to get answers.

I was just pointing to an example. Certainly DIY will be cheaper. But if you plan to set-up / tear down and travel with this gear, you should absolutely look at how the "pro" gear is built and assembled so you can apply that knowledge to your DIY solution. Note how their screen frames break down into a set that can be carried in a bag by one person...
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This is my problem the Benq guide says it can project at this distance so this is all I have to go by. If I go much smaller than my original screen size my cinema tent risks becoming just a big t.v in a tent rather than a Backyard Cinema experience. Does anyone have any recommendations for any other projector within reason that might do the job better?

Just realize that IF there was a cheap projector with tons of light output and excellent contrast - we all would have bought it... But in reality, you'll have to pick any two of those.

Jeff
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post #10 of 33 Old 02-27-2014, 05:35 PM
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not sure of the whole big picture in this installation, but from what I remember, the party (if that's what this is about) is more about the atmosphere then the technology. Circa 1990, I remember stopping traffic and attracting many pedestrians (and discussing the situation with the Indiana State Patrol) in Speedway Indiana the Saturday night before the Indy 500 on the highway leading to the track with nothing more than a school bus with a sheet on the side and a 2nd generation Sharp LCD projector (capable of no more than 500 lumens at it's current bulb life). "Animal House" and "The Incredible Mr. Limpet" were the double feature.
Atmosphere is everything...... some trivia slides (from the Theater Accessory forum?), and a few strips of remote dimmable LED lighting can go a long way can make up for some short comings in the video presentation.
search iowa city magic bus for what evolved from those early road trips
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post #11 of 33 Old 02-27-2014, 11:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I am a complete beginner to projectors so please excuse my ignorance in all this :(Am I to believe that the higher the lumens and contrast according to the manufactures the better chance I have of getting my big picture? I have seen some home cinemas online which were as big as I need but the projector model was not mentioned or available. Anyone know of a model that can handle the heat:), I may be able to stretch my budget if needs be? I understand the atmosphere is key and I think I will have this sorted but to get people interested in making that first Backyard cinema rental jump I think the screen size may be a key selling point. 

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post #12 of 33 Old 02-28-2014, 10:22 PM
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It was that "rental" word that jumps out - if this will be a business venture, the image quality will need to be better than "acceptable for friends to watch"...

By the way - you should check out the Outdoor Theaters forum three down from here - lots of info there you might find useful.


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post #13 of 33 Old 03-15-2014, 11:17 PM - Thread Starter
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So things are starting to come together with my Cinema tent. I made the jump and went for the Acer H6510bd due to its high lumens. screen size and fitting the budget. I gave it a trial run off my computer and I am more than impressed cant wait to see HD and 3d on it. I had my 8oz popcorn machine delivered and I am in negotiations with a company in China for them to build a blackout inflatable tent 7m x 4m x 3.5m high. I have designed a portable screen 4m long made from good white spandex over a silver spandex supported by a PVC pipe frame. This keeps me in budget and allows me to dismantle the screen and store in a small space. But now I am trying to work out how to do or what to do for my sound. I am jumping between an AV amp with 2 large speakers and sub or a mid range 2.1 home cinema package, sound bar and sub. I don't need very high spec sound detail just enough bang for that cinema feel, any ideas? As the tent will be run off extension cables from the house I am trying to keep the amount of power points needed down. As people will be renting this tent for kids/adult parties to mainly watch movies and play games I need to be able to set everything up Blu Ray player/ Games console for them before I leave them to run their own party. My other problem is that the only sound input on the projector is a 3.5mm jack there is no optic line so does this limit what sound system I can attach? I need the speakers to play sound from anything shown on the projector without and need to plug or unplug cables or devices ( it would cause trouble for people doing it on their own) Anyone any more advise or see any problems I am missing?

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post #14 of 33 Old 03-16-2014, 02:38 PM
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The limitations of only having analog audio out of your projector and need to keep operations simplified pretty much dictate that you aren't doing surround sound. (unless you are willing to interject some sort of home audio surround receiver into the system to handle surround decoding and source switching)
Your bass reproduction is going to be the tricky part in that big tent. Maybe look at a four channel amp with built in crossovers and as big of bass cabinet as you are willing to haul around, or make do with an active sub and figure out how to run a hum-free low level signal to it. (along with another power cord). Guess you have to figure out how to balance the desire for a satisfactory "thump" with not creating a noise ordinance violation issue for your clients.
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post #15 of 33 Old 03-17-2014, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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What are these built in crossovers you speak about? I am not worried about  noise the law in Ireland is relaxed you can only get in bother if you have noise going on for a period of time like every day over weeks, but one off parties/Movie nights you can do as you please.

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post #16 of 33 Old 03-17-2014, 03:36 PM
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a crossover is a frequency based audio filter. There are active crossovers that are installed before the amplification stage or passive crossovers that go between your amp and speaker. (usually built into the speaker) This is what sends the highs to the tweeters and the bass to big drivers. You don't want your bass speaker trying to reproduce midrange and high frequencies too. Many commercial amplifiers and all surround receivers will have this feature built in. This feature may be referred to as a "low pass" and "high pass" filter. A four channel amplifier with both high and low pass filtering that lets you mono sum (combine right and left together) the bass channels to double the power to one subwoofer would be an ideal choice for you. If you can find separate amps for mains and subs for less money, other than the added bulk, that could be wonderful, too.
Amplified subwoofers will usually have a crossover built in, often with variable frequency adjustment for the crossover point so you can send it a "full range" signal and let it filter out the high frequencies you don't want it trying to reproduce. (150 Hz and up typically. the frequency selection has a lot to do with the capabilities of your main speakers)
Kewl that you folks can have a good time without somebody getting offended and calling the cops like so many partypoopers in this country.

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post #17 of 33 Old 03-18-2014, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Jesus I am out of my depth what sounds simple to you guys is like a foreign language to me, time to get  researching again. I am surprised to hear you have the cops bothering you if you have the odd bit of noise from a party or backyard movie night, if you want total peace and quiet don't buy a home where you have neighbours off to the mountains with you. Over here you pay for your home so you are entitled to use it how you wish as long as its not every night of course. Thanks for your help keep any ideas coming. Over here people are putting new movies on flash drives any idea how I can get these to play on my projector with that good sound im hoping to have? Can I play them through a BLU ray DVD player or Amp?

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post #18 of 33 Old 03-18-2014, 01:38 PM
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I would think any Blu Ray or DVD player with a USB port would work for your flashdrive idea as long as it was compatible with the file format you saved your movie as.

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post #19 of 33 Old 04-07-2014, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello again, so things are moving well with my cinema tent but im a little stuck with my speaker set up. Here is what ive got at the moment.. A Yamaha RX-V375 receiver and a Phillips BDP5600 blu ray player with an Acer 6500 projector but from reading this forum I think its not just a case now of buy a speaker set and off I go. What I need to know is what power speakers do I need for this amp or what is the highest I can go in watts? The manual says 1 channel 100w and 7 channels 70w but does this mean I cannot put lets say 4 100w separate speakers connected to it or can I just attach any watt speakers to it ? any budget ideas for speakers for this amp that will give good loud sound for a cinema feel? I have been looking at budget tall standing speakersx4 then thinking of a separate centre and sub, or do I even need a sub with what I have planned? Do I need to even bother with 5.1 surround sound if good old fashioned stereo would do? Help.....im out of my depth!   

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post #20 of 33 Old 04-07-2014, 03:47 PM
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The dilemma with a rental system and stereo VS surround is dealing with the default audio track on most DVDs being the surround track. Your blu ray player may be able to be setup for stereo output only, otherwise your user will need to go into the DVD menu at the beginning of the movie and select the two channel track, otherwise you will be sending audio info to speakers that don't exist, especially center and sub (or LFE, low frequency effects).
If the intent is movies, find a way to do a 5.1 system. Your front three speakers should all be the same model, don't think that a pair of towers and tiny center channel will work. Your center channel is doing most of the work up front as far as dialog goes, it has to keep up with the other two.
The power handling rating of a speaker is like a capacity rating. It reflects the maximum amount of power your amplifier should be capable of sending it. A higher power handling rating has nothing to do with how loud the speaker will play or minimum size of amp needed to drive it. That is efficiency, which is also going to be listed by any good speaker manufacturer. Higher is better. It is a measurement of how loud the speaker will play given 1 watt of power, measured at a distance of 1 foot. everything standardized.
In your situation, any speaker rated to handle at least 100 watts and an efficiency of over 90 should be OK. A horn tweeter would probably be a good thing in this situation (and 8 ohm only, you'll probably be running this loud and you don't want to overwork that receiver anymore than you already will) Not sure what brands you see for speakers over there (besides Tannoy) but maybe look for some Klipsch, BIC, JBL or Yamaha.
All that leaves is bass. You're not gonna like to hear this, but reproducing bass in a large tent is going to take the ability to move a serious amount of air, and that ain't going to be cheap. One 8" home theater subwoofer is going to get totally lost in that space.
Whatever you buy, get as big of driver with as much amplification behind it as you can afford, then save up to buy three more. Don't forget, this special speaker will either have its own built in amplifier, requiring an electrical outlet, and an appropriate patch cord to connect to the Yamaha receiver.

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post #21 of 33 Old 04-08-2014, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I spent the day trying to get a grip of your post thanks for the help its getting more confusing the more I look at the speaker situation. I have been taking your advise along my way so maybe you could look at this 5.0 speaker set for me, its a Danish make called Eltax Copenhagen and there is also an Eltax shine 5.0 which is a little more expensive. I think it might do the job along with a sub (which I have yet to finalise) the Eltax Copenhagen is 100w per speaker which is about right with the receiver, but I am wondering about the Ohms, they are 6 but the amp is 8, will this make much difference to the normal person? The set looks nice and the 2 tall speakers are what I think would be good for my tent as people will be on beanbags so the bit of height would be helpful? do you think the Shine model would be any better or should I forget this system?

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post #22 of 33 Old 04-08-2014, 03:16 PM
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You should probably be looking at PA (public address) / live performance speakers for this setup. Those are built to travel, can be easily (and safely) mounted on stands, and have carrying handles or fit together for transport. A portable (wheeled) rack case would be a good idea, too.

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post #23 of 33 Old 04-08-2014, 10:56 PM - Thread Starter
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My idea is a small inflatable tent about 7 meters x 4m and about 3.5 meters high (the viewing area will only be about 5 meters of that so people can be 2 meters back from my screen so its not a huge outdoor area more like a small indoor area) which will be used for kids/adult movie nights/parties. All the advise is saying to keep at the 5.1 set up so is this possible with P/A speakers, given my set up budget is low? I was looking at getting 2 of these speakers but by all accounts my set up may have problems playing sound from  my player given the format of these discs, if I attach say just 2 of these P/A speakers will the sound play from my Amp through my Blu ray player? I just need people to be able to enjoy the movie and atmosphere (as kindly pointed out by the weasel man :)) with a general and good level of sound. I don't think people will be bothered with amazing sound effects but more about being able to hear the movie clearly with similar volume to a cinema, also I don't think I could be lugging around say 4 of these speakers all the time so 2 max would be ideal. So I suppose what I need to know is will  acceptable sound play out of 2 of these P.A speakers through my Yamaha RX-375 amp without too much fussing around with sound set up menus on my player?

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post #24 of 33 Old 04-09-2014, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I have spent the day on the computer checking out forums for outdoor movies ect. and I think I may be guilty of overthinking things here. I found people using cheap small 5.1  speaker systems OUTDOORS for groups of 15/20 people and they were all commenting on how good the sound was. My  inflatable tent will seat small groups around 15/25max(4/5 rows of 4 people) so I don't see how lets say a mid range 5.1 speaker set (maybe with 4 tall front and rear speakers) would not give people the best of both worlds, good volume and sound effects? A set like this would be fine for moving around if I was careful of course and I think that my inflatable tent will keep the sound similar to being indoors. Have I lost sight of the main goal by trying to get too technical and attempting to get amazing sound rather than enjoyable sound? I suppose my real problem here is for all my research I actually have never heard one of these 5.1 sets in action, any stores near me only have sound bars set up, so I actually don't even have a clue what to expect! I did hear a Panasonic sound bar on its own in a big store and it was pretty impressive I have to admit. Im shooting blind buying of the internet but I don't have much choice as home cinema set ups are not popular in Ireland so equipment is hard to come by and expensive. Any thoughts as I finish a beer after a hard days graft:)

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post #25 of 33 Old 04-09-2014, 04:34 PM
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say you purchase some pre-packaged home theater system with a couple of towers, a small horizontally oriented center channel, and a pair of small rear channel speakers. where do you plan on placing the center and rear channel speakers? Does the tent have any structural element strong enough to safely mount them to? What about the wires running to each speaker? How are they routed or covered so as to not create a trip hazard? Sorry for all the questions, but in this country, a businessman may end up bearing the responsibility for the safety of their customers should they injure themselves, so it would be good if things are accident proof.
The Eltax's look serviceable. I saw at least one other post in AVS about them, and it wasn't all bad. You get what you pay for. Too bad you can't just buy 5 of the Idaho front speakers (assuming your screen is high enough off the ground)
The 6 ohm VS 8 ohm thing isn't so much about the audience noticing, unless of course if it causes your receiver to shut down or overheat. Yamaha usually builds a decent amplifier section, just don't overwork it. Your ears will tell you: if it is distorting at the volume you are it, it is too loud, the amp is "clipping" or starting to output DC current which will overheat the voice coils and blow the speaker. Test your setup, run it as loud as you would ever conceivably run it. Put a label on the receiver stating what the maximum volume setting is. ( This used to be a lot easier with analog controls, you could just put a dot marking how far to turn the volume control dial, but with todays digital controls, there is no reference point, other than dB level or some other scale.
Make sure you keep 10mm or more clear above the top of your receiver so it can dissipate heat and avoid damaging internal components (IE don't put your blu ray player on top of it)
Are there any electronics parts or speaker building hobbyist websites similar to our Parts Express? They may offer the best value in terms of speakers, especially powered subwoofers, where bang for the buck is what you are after. Here is an example of what is available for less than $200 American. (obviously without shipping, tariffs, or potential electrical standard issues taken into consideration, but an example of what may be available if you explore some different avenues)
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-sub-1500-15-150-watt-powered-subwoofer--300-634
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post #26 of 33 Old 04-10-2014, 01:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Good morning from overcast (and slightly hung-over) Ireland. My tent will have a weather proof ground sheet so I plan to make small openings in it when I have my final set up worked out so as any cables run under it. This should leave only the connecting cable visible (cable tripping sorted) I was sort of thinking to place the small rears and centre up on some square bean bag type foot stools(about 2 feet high) to get them close to ear level sound. I checked that site out(Very cool) you yanks are spoilt no chance of anything this side of the Atlantic like that. They do ship to Ireland but I think the postage/Tax/vat and electrical issue put paid to getting this sent over. Its interesting that you spotted the Eltax Idaho they have been on my radar for some time now. On a site which sells these I found a similar looking set with the 4 tall speakers called the Hyundai multi cav 1400w 8ohms. At a good price I could afford a decent sub and then all I need is a centre speaker. I am interested to know what you think of these speakers(on paper) compared to the Idaho ones? Also you said it was a pity I could not get 5 of these speakers, am I correct then in thinking that a normal speaker(rather than a marketed centre speaker) can be connected to the centre channel and provide ok 5.1 surround sound? I would like to point out that this venture is a more of a labour of love rather than a big commercial business attempt. I fell in love with home/outdoor cinema while living in Australia and have been wanting to do it here for a long time. So I figure that even if it never gets off the ground I will be left with a cool home cinema all for myself, family and neighbours too I suppose:). My reason for trying to rent the set up is to try get some of my money back and also because Ireland has one of the highest per head cinema attendance in the world. We also have a strange addiction to anything inflatable, castles/slides ect,  for family celebrations so put the 2 together I don't see how I cant get in on the Kids party rental market at least. The tent will also be capable of being used for Gaming and a Video disco after your main event, if I was a kid this is what I would want rather than jumping up and down on and inflatable giraffe! I also plan to supply my 8oz Popcorn machine with retro boxes, and cinema style drink cups included. Just getting people to bite and embrace something new will be my biggest problem I feel.

Thanks for your input the finish line is close I feel.  

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post #27 of 33 Old 04-10-2014, 04:16 PM
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Not only can a non specialized centre speaker be ok, it would be superior if matched with 2 or 4 other identical speakers. The use of smaller horizontally oriented center channel speakers and tiny cube rear channels is more about marketing to the masses (because wifey can tolerate it hidden away in the entertainment center) and meeting a budget, than acoustic quality. You want the system to have the same dynamic capability for each of the 5 channels. Your receiver puts out an equal power distribution to 5 channels for a reason.
I checked out the Hyundai Multicav Towers on the amazon.uk site. Reviews were pretty consistently positive. I'm not sure if this is the exact same speaker as the fronts that come with the Multicav surround sound package. The towers are listed as 8 ohms but the fronts are rated at 4 ohms in the surround package. Not sure I'd take that risk if I knew I wasn't going to be in charge of the volume control all the time. For what it is worth Yamaha has the confidence to rate its receiver's amp output into 2 ohms ( at least for brief "dynamics" IE explosions, gunshots, collisions), so while not recommended, you may get away with it. HiFi Tower was the dealer. They show an Eltax Universe 5.0 package for a little more $$$ that looks like it uses better drivers than the Hyundai, particularly the center and surrounds. Don't believe their hype that you don't need a subwoofer. You'll eventually want a sub. Now, if you hop over to the "PA systems and audio" pages, you'll see some very affordable little PA speakers that could work very nicely in your application. (although probably not as nice in the living room, aesthetically speaking) Buy three pair, sell the extra or keep as a spare. Just a thought, lots of options, as you can see. http://www.hifi-tower.co.uk/Surround-Sound-Speakers_c135.

Looking forward to photos of the whole setup when you're finished.
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post #28 of 33 Old 04-11-2014, 02:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok its get off the pot time this weekend for sound, thanks for your input its put me on the correct path. Here are my final options I would appreciate your input...(1) On Hifi Tower site I found in the Hifi speaker section a 4 pack of Hyundai Multi Cav floor standing speakers for 180euro (item number 61000042) they are listed as 8ohm unlike the 5.0 pack which is 4ohm. I could get the 2 pack of the same speaker for about 110 euro to make 6 in all and use 5 for my tent with 1 spare. Maybe add a sub after testing if needed? A question on this is will I get sound off 5.1 sound tracks without the 1,sub just the 5 speakers if you understand what I mean? 2. To just go for the Eltax Universe 5.0 add a sub this would be a little more expensive but somewhat easier for moving around due to the smaller speakers? 3. I also spotted on the same site the Beng V9b 5.0 system it looks impressive, the centre and rears are listed as 4ohm but there is no stats on the towers which are packed with different woofers and tweeters ,have you any opinion on these? Im going to give the p/a speakers a miss due to lack of understanding and worries about kids pulling them over and unstable ground conditions. My head says go for the Eltax system for ease of set up, my heart says the 6 pack of Multi Cavs for probably better sound and more matching to my amp on paper, and my eyes are saying go for the Benq pack ( I know it should be all about my ears but as explained I don't have that option over here) I would appreciate any thoughts on this before the weekend  as I hope to order and give my set up a first run next Friday. Thanks in advance for your time. 

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post #29 of 33 Old 04-11-2014, 04:07 AM
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You do have the option when setting up the surround sound menu on your Yamaha to choose "no subwoofer" which will send the LFE track to your front right and left. I can't help you decide between form factors or performance since this is "all on paper". I feel for ya, but this is the sad future of audio shopping for most of us due to the death of the traditional brick and mortar stores. You can't judge cabinet quality or sound fidelity from a thumbnail photo and a bunch of anonymous reviews.
I would willing to wager a sixer of Killians that the Beng speakers are made of wafer thin chipboard and have drivers with woefully inadequate motor structure. Less is often better in terms of driver count in a speaker. Good Luck. post pictures

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post #30 of 33 Old 04-11-2014, 06:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for that, just to prove what a cave man I am when it comes to things technical I don't know haw to put pictures on the computer:confused: But the Wife will sort this when I get things together. It looks like I will go for the Eltax they seem to have more quality and will be easier to handle. Makin the jump today should have them early next week, nervous times. Will keep you posted. Great help thanks again.

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