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post #181 of 1104 Old 07-31-2014, 03:30 PM
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I gotta ask, how much different is the bass in this room vs your old one? It seemed like your previous space required ungodly amounts of air movement to just register a little big of pressure in the room.

Is the new one more flattering in that regard? :-)

Looks great!
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post #182 of 1104 Old 07-31-2014, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I do think the new space is more forgiving. It's bigger and yet I can still fill it with ease with the Captivators!

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
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My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
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post #183 of 1104 Old 07-31-2014, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
I do think the new space is more forgiving. It's bigger and yet I can still fill it with ease with the Captivators!
An open field is more forgiving than your old place.

Seriously though, I do agree. The Caps crush your new place! Haha, good thing you have more drivers on the way.
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post #184 of 1104 Old 07-31-2014, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
What a gigantic difference from v.1 to v.2. Excellent work.

Question about the baffle wall treatments....is that OC703 with black facing or something like Insulshield black? And was it available locally or did you have to order it online? Looking for similar for my baffle wall and need to place an order soon.




That's just about right. OC703 with a black, light absorbing, finish. They are actually ceiling tiles made by CertainTeed. Craig John turned me onto them. Gorilla83 has installed them to great effect as well. The ones I bought are Theater Black f. They are 3% light reflectivity and range from .75 to .90 NRC rating depending on thickness. I installed them on the ceiling and on the front wall. I stuck them to the wall with locktite adhesive spray. They cut super easy with a serrated steak knife or utility knife. They absorb WAY more light than the darkest black matte pant I could find which I was previously using on the front wall. The Theater Black tiles worked much better for contrast ratio increase behind my AT screen. I bought mine locally from a big drywall distributer. They were about $120 + tax for 16. I needed three packs to start and need three more packs to finish the back of the room. Gorilla83 had a local place in PA that sold them for just about 1/2 price what I could find them for here in MO.


You can find a local distributer or reseller here:
http://www.certainteed.com/Locators/...ProductType=17


http://www.certainteed.com/products/...erforma/314184

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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Last edited by Archaea; 07-31-2014 at 04:24 PM.
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post #185 of 1104 Old 08-01-2014, 08:14 AM
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Got some major catching up to do on this thread.
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post #186 of 1104 Old 08-01-2014, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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I spent most of the day yesterday afternoon listening to the 228HT (home sick), then after some discussion in the JTR thread about the Mackie C200 - I hooked up all the Mackies again last night and listened to some two channel and movie clips, then went back to the JTR 228HT for some direct comparison. I hate to admit it but I think I must have had the Mackies wired up out of phase in the L/R when I originally was demoing them for stitch1 and carp. There was no longer any of the weird DSP effect on L/R stereo listening. All channel stereo listening was always fun on the nine Mackies, but two channel was a bit weird. No more. They still aren't as good as the 228HT, but I wouldn't define them as weird or off somehow for two channel. I'm surprised I didn't recognize them being out of phase, but I didn't. Sheldon and Tim will have to give them another listen. All of us liked them for all channel stereo, but not too much for traditional stereo. They use speakon connectors and unfortunately I must have wired one of the fronts in reverse initially. Last night I rewired. Honestly, I'd say the Mackies are 75% of the JTR 228HT for 20% of the price. (street to street price) Their fault is a sibalance on the treble. It's not quite a clean, more sssss, more blurred treble at loud volumes - but not nearly as bad as a previous set of speaker I owned - the eD Cinema 12. (The Mackies are better than the eD Cinema 12 as I recall by playing some of the tracks I found distasteful on the eD - specifically some of the dubstep music on Art of Flight was obnoxious on the eD because of the heavy treble, but while a bit blurred on the Mackie - is not obnoxious. (on other stuff the eD really shined too - so obviously this comparison is by memory since I don't have the eD anymore)).

I'd still say the Mackie are excellent for movies, and now I can say they are enjoyable for two channel too. (not the last word in refinement, but not disappointing either). The JTR 228HT compression driver costs alone costs more than the whole street shipped price of the Mackie C200 speaker - so you'd expect it be better. But the C200 is good. If looks aren't a problem I don't see how anyone could be disappointed with them for surround -- they fit my surround needs perfectly.

All channel stereo with nine of those mackies is a lot of fun!

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post #187 of 1104 Old 08-04-2014, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Bought four sealed 18" cabinets on a wild hare - Direct me to a driver setup at least competitive or superior to JTR Captivators...


Getting close now. Eight Ultimax 18"drivers are supposed to be shipping this week!

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #188 of 1104 Old 08-04-2014, 01:23 PM
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Idk what you plan on powering them with, but I noticed musician's friend and guitar center are blowing out the crown x4000 for 300 bucks. That's a better power $ ratio then most.
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post #189 of 1104 Old 08-04-2014, 01:47 PM
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I was just telling Austin Saturday how much I liked your Cap subs. With 8 more subs in play this will be fun to watch. Glad the Daytons finally arrived in the US.

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post #190 of 1104 Old 08-04-2014, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't know what I plan on powering them with either. I'm going to toy around.

I currently own:
(2) iNuke DSP 6000
iNuke DSP 3000
Crown XLS-5000
Cerwin Vega CV-5000
And an EP4000 with one channel failed.

The Ultimax's 2ohm voice coil configuration and power handling characteristics are less than ideal for most modern powerhouse amps and trying to run multiples.


I'll look into those Crowns real quick.

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post #191 of 1104 Old 08-04-2014, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post
I was just telling Austin Saturday how much I liked your Cap subs. With 8 more subs in play this will be fun to watch. Glad the Daytons finally arrived in the US.
me toooooooo - to both loving the caps and being glad to see the Ultimax are coming.

Austin liked them too - if he didn't let on to you in that convo. I remember at the Gorilla83 meet when he pulled me aside and said they stole the show for him at that meet. Even over the Seaton Submersive triple setup, and the pair of DIY LMS 5400 sealed wolly mammoths subs he brought. Simply on volume alone the Caps were brutal. They knocked over two bass traps during their demo at Andrews (must have trapped all the bass they could handle and tapped out), and unscrewed a lightbulb in the bathroom.

They won't compete with what Austin finished with in his room by any means, or even the eight sealed in Gorilla83's room currently - but I'm pretty sure I could put up my pair of caps against 6 SI sealed and the outcome would be pretty comparable to most enthusiasts. 2 ported caps beatup four sealed Si 18" pretty thoroughly in my room when we compared (IMO) Eight sealed 18" SI wins though.

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post #192 of 1104 Old 08-04-2014, 02:28 PM
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Yeah Austin let on that he liked them. For the cost of the unpowered version they seem hard to beat!

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post #193 of 1104 Old 08-04-2014, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormwind13 View Post
Idk what you plan on powering them with, but I noticed musician's friend and guitar center are blowing out the crown x4000 for 300 bucks. That's a better power $ ratio then most.




That really is a stellar deal. I web searched this and found guys clamoring over these things at previous sale prices of $500 and even $650. The X1000 at $99 is also a steal.


Do I need any amps? no.

I suppose I could sell my Sherbourn 7-350 and replace it with four X-1000's. Probably pocket $1k. hmmmmm. I'll sleep on it.

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post #194 of 1104 Old 08-05-2014, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormwind13 View Post
Idk what you plan on powering them with, but I noticed musician's friend and guitar center are blowing out the crown x4000 for 300 bucks. That's a better power $ ratio then most.
Ah, so you're to blame for me looking at those closeout amps now? Dang!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
me toooooooo - to both loving the caps and being glad to see the Ultimax are coming.

Austin liked them too - if he didn't let on to you in that convo. I remember at the Gorilla83 meet when he pulled me aside and said they stole the show for him at that meet. Even over the Seaton Submersive triple setup, and the pair of DIY LMS 5400 sealed wolly mammoths subs he brought. Simply on volume alone the Caps were brutal. They knocked over two bass traps during their demo at Andrews (must have trapped all the bass they could handle and tapped out), and unscrewed a lightbulb in the bathroom.

They won't compete with what Austin finished with in his room by any means, or even the eight sealed in Gorilla83's room currently - but I'm pretty sure I could put up my pair of caps against 6 SI sealed and the outcome would be pretty comparable to most enthusiasts. 2 ported caps beatup four sealed Si 18" pretty thoroughly in my room when we compared (IMO) Eight sealed 18" SI wins though.
Jonathan - If you're getting any type of decent room gain in your room now I think you will really enjoy the sealed setup. When comparing the 2 dual opposed sealed Daytons when I first built mine I preferred them in almost every way to my Dual Caps. The caps might have had a slight advantage at port tune, but everywhere else (mid bass - drum kicks were unreal, ultra low stuff, etc) they sounded really good. I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts.

BTW - I think the Crown and CV are great matches for your 8 drivers! Look no further.
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post #195 of 1104 Old 08-05-2014, 05:38 AM
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I happened across them at guitar center yesterday. Had to use a lot of restraint to not just buy them all up.
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post #196 of 1104 Old 08-05-2014, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Stormwind13. I think you could double your money on ebay.




Gorilla83, did you see the spec sheet (released yesterday) for the UM18-22"? Looks pretty nice and from 8hz and up the impedance is 6ohm or above.
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/...D=5or0ptyrqzpi


I saw that Ricci ordered one so we'll see how it holds up in real world testing, but the specs even look better than originally expected. Nearly flat frequency response to 400hz? What kind of cabinet was used for that test I wonder? It doesn't seem like a nearfield sealed subwoofer response.

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post #197 of 1104 Old 08-05-2014, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Stormwind13. I think you could double your money on ebay.




Gorilla83, did you see the spec sheet (released yesterday) for the UM18-22"? Looks pretty nice and from 8hz and up the impedance is 6ohm or above.
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/...D=5or0ptyrqzpi


I saw that Ricci ordered one so we'll see how it holds up in real world testing, but the specs even look better than originally expected. Nearly flat frequency response to 400hz? What kind of cabinet was used for that test I wonder? It doesn't seem like a nearfield sealed subwoofer response.
That looks like a really nice driver. Can't wait for Ricci to get his hands on one and test it!
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post #198 of 1104 Old 08-05-2014, 11:05 AM
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I went back to guitar center today and bought 2 x4000s and 2 x1000s. Might keep em, might not. Don't know yet.
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post #199 of 1104 Old 08-07-2014, 08:27 AM
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Looking pretty good, Archaea. Where are the new room measurement graphs? Forthcoming? I'm curious to see what you're working with as your in-room response, even if just with the Caps.
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post #200 of 1104 Old 08-07-2014, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Nube,
I've done some omnimic work - - a couple minor cuts on two bands of my Symetrix 5 band PEQ makes for a flat response to about 20hz in the new room with the caps. Nothing at all extra ordinary. I have an unfortunate suckout in the mid 20hz range with the current captivator position, but it's very steep and narrow and I'm not too worried about it because when you put 1/6 smoothing on it doesn't really show up, and I don't really hear anything funky --- from what I've read (~1/6th smoothing is what our ears perceive)

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post #201 of 1104 Old 08-07-2014, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
That really is a stellar deal. I web searched this and found guys clamoring over these things at previous sale prices of $500 and even $650. The X1000 at $99 is also a steal.


Do I need any amps? no.

I suppose I could sell my Sherbourn 7-350 and replace it with four X-1000's. Probably pocket $1k. hmmmmm. I'll sleep on it.
Does anybody know if these are as quiet as the XLS series or will they need to be in a separate room?
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post #202 of 1104 Old 08-07-2014, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Coach2369,
word on the street is they are nearly silent.
Cheap Crown Amp Power $99

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post #203 of 1104 Old 08-07-2014, 08:10 PM
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Quiet as the xls class d series? No. But they are inaudible at the lp even when stressed and the movie paused. You can't even hear the crown xls amps unless you practically put your ear tp them. (I've owned both the xls1500 and the x4000)
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post #204 of 1104 Old 08-08-2014, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Coach2369,
word on the street is they are nearly silent.
Cheap Crown Amp Power $99
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormwind13 View Post
Quiet as the xls class d series? No. But they are inaudible at the lp even when stressed and the movie paused. You can't even hear the crown xls amps unless you practically put your ear tp them. (I've owned both the xls1500 and the x4000)
Thank you both your input and the link to the thread..

According to the search by store feature, my guitar center has some of these in stock. I potentially have four surround speakers that might need some power, so I am going to check these out today.

Thanks.
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post #205 of 1104 Old 08-08-2014, 05:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Atmos ceiling speaker amps?

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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2011 KC Sub Shootout
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post #206 of 1104 Old 08-08-2014, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Atmos ceiling speaker amps?
No....not ready for that yet.

I actually have the Sunfire TGA-7401 and have been looking at doing something different with my LCR, which might allow me to sell the Sunfire and get something less for the surround speakers..
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post #207 of 1104 Old 08-08-2014, 07:14 AM
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What is the status on your ultimax drivers?
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post #208 of 1104 Old 08-18-2014, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Shipped, arrived, tested with some 20hz sine waves briefly outside the box. No problems. All eight still outside the sealed boxes on the floor. Intending to put them all together this weekend.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #209 of 1104 Old 08-18-2014, 06:27 PM
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Glad to see all the delays and ordering stress has been rewarded. Looking forward to the pictures and description of the results.
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post #210 of 1104 Old 08-18-2014, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
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Shipped, arrived, tested with some 20hz sine waves briefly outside the box. No problems. All eight still outside the sealed boxes on the floor. Intending to put them all together this weekend.
Yeeessss!!!
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