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post #1 of 34 Old 08-25-2014, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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New house wiring Fiber?

I am going to be building a house soon. I want to put a lot of cables in the wall to try and future proof (so to speak). I'm trying to decide between multi-mode and single-mode fiber. Any thoughts. I know single-mode can go farther, but my longest run would be 93'. I also want to make sure its compatible with any future Audio/Video things that may come along. So I wasn't sure which technology was best for A/V
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post #2 of 34 Old 08-25-2014, 04:39 PM
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fiber for in home connectivity is probably overkill, unless the runs between the headend and outlets exceed 300 feet. But if you are insisting on installing fiber, use single mode. Multi mode is quickly falling off the map for commercial data inter-connectivity, and there is virtually no chance your service provider will be running multi mode to your house, so extending within the house would involve other electronics anyway. You would be far better off running flex conduit to each outlet with the wiring for immediate use run outside it, then you are set to pull in whatever the future dictates is necessary.

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post #3 of 34 Old 08-25-2014, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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9/125 or does it matter?
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post #4 of 34 Old 08-25-2014, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jjohnston7 View Post
So I wasn't sure which technology was best for A/V
Cat5e / Cat6 and a flex conduit. As Weaselfest said, the flex conduit would be a far better use of those funds. The odds of needing any fiber in the home is almost nil.

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post #5 of 34 Old 08-26-2014, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I guess my thought was, for $160 to get a fiber line in every room as a just incase, is pretty cheap. But that conduit would cost me more like $900. $160 I can do, $900 is a bit outside my budget right now. But at the same time, I hate to spend the $160 if its just going to sit there and not ever be used in the next 100 years.
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post #6 of 34 Old 08-26-2014, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jjohnston7 View Post
I guess my thought was, for $160 to get a fiber line in every room as a just incase, is pretty cheap. But that conduit would cost me more like $900. $160 I can do, $900 is a bit outside my budget right now. But at the same time, I hate to spend the $160 if its just going to sit there and not ever be used in the next 100 years.
That $160 would be better spent on another spool of cat5e/cat6. The practical approach on the flex conduit is to run that to the "key" AV locations (family room, game room, etc.) that are not accessible post-construction from an attic / basement /crawlspace... I added conduit runs to my family room, study, and two outdoor locations, for example.


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post #7 of 34 Old 08-26-2014, 01:58 PM
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Yea I'm not sure I would run fiber in my home. I mean you could but fiber is more prone to issues later down the road. It's easier to damage then coper. And with cat5e or cat6 fiber is really not nessesary. I ran a lot of flex conduit in my basement build and maybe spent 200 bucks on it. So i suppose if you are thinking of running it all over your house that could get pricey but you shouldn't need to. What I did when my house was built was had the builder put 2 good sized chase pipes (1" conduit) from the basement to the attic. Then I was able to pull all my cat6 and coax from my home run in the basement to the attic and down into each room. I filled the pipes so I did not leave access to them from the basement. If I want to add lines in my upstairs then I can because I terminated one live line into my boys closet and patched that into a switch. So if I need more lines I can drop a line in an upstairs bedroom and run it over to the boys closet and patch into the switch. Instant live data jack! Then all the flex conduit I used in the basement runs back to my utility room (homerun) location with nothing but a pull string for future pulls. Just make sure if you use the pull string to tie another pull string onto the same cable your putlling. Or you can just use the cable as the pull string I suppose.

I also added a run to my back yard and garage for 2 outdoor locations. You can see that in my build thread.

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post #8 of 34 Old 08-26-2014, 04:27 PM
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Please use the examples of running flex conduit to only the critical locations and larger diameters to other wall fishing locations such as attics or crawl spaces. I didn't mean to imply running flex conduit to every single low voltage location in your home. As far as fiber type, yes 9/125 for single mode. I have to amend my earlier statement on multimode as Crestron still leverages its DigitalMedia 8G product on 50/125 mulit mode. Extron offers multi mode products that support both 50 and 62.5/125 and SM at 9/125.
Data networks are using 9/125 or the 10Gig 50 micron laser optimized stuff for data centers

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post #9 of 34 Old 08-26-2014, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, thanks for all the examples! they help a lot. I just didn't want to be in the position where 10 years from now I want to install the new 8K resolution SuperUltra HD TV and maybe that runs on fiber and kick myself for not having run it.

I think I may skip the fiber, but run a couple small runs of conduit from the main media input in the house, up to the attic. That way if I need to add something in the future I have a way to at least get it run inside the house.

Does anyone know of any decent priced conduit? I found some pvc flex for like $80 for 50'
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post #10 of 34 Old 08-28-2014, 10:03 AM
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I used this stuff for my basement runs. It is sometimes referred to as "smurf tube" because of the blue color I suppose. There are attachements for connecting pieces together and also attachments that snap into the orange carlon boxes. It worked great.

http://www.menards.com/main/electric...769-c-6423.htm

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post #11 of 34 Old 08-28-2014, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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OH! Thanks gec! that is the stuff I'm going to use I think!

I'm not sure if I want to run it to teh attic or not... I may just run it to the key spots. My fear is, when the temps here are -20 degreese outside, I don't want the cold air following that tube right down into the basement.
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post #12 of 34 Old 08-28-2014, 10:24 AM
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I would run actual electrical conduit to your attic and not go with the flex for that. But using the flex to key spots is nice and easy. You may want to run a few chases of regular conduit up to your attic actually. I did and was glad for it. I filled mine with cat6 and coax pretty quick. i was able to get a coax for TV and a couple cat6 per bedroom though. I have 4 bedrooms up there so that's quite a bit of cable. But I also terminted one to a remote switch in my kids closet so I can add network lines down the road if I ever want to.

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post #13 of 34 Old 08-28-2014, 10:33 AM
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Here are a couple links to my build where I show this smurf tube in action.

http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/327193/

http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/327192/

http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/327194/

http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/327195/

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post #14 of 34 Old 08-28-2014, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Is there a reason to avoid flex for going up to the attic?
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post #15 of 34 Old 08-28-2014, 12:22 PM
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Well I suppose not really. But for that long of a run and it should be nice and straight with no bends if they go up the side of the house. The main reason to use the flex in a build for me is that it's easy to install and snake around things. But if it's just a straight shot then I would proabably prefer to use smooth electrical conduit that is nice and rigid and secure. My builder used 1" electrical conduit up my side wall from the basement to the attic. I'm not sure what the price difference for that run would be so maybe it would make sense to use the flex if it's cheaper.

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post #16 of 34 Old 08-28-2014, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh ok. Menards has 3/4" 5' PVC conduit for $1.05 per. I would think 6 or 7 is enough. Would just need the glue.
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post #17 of 34 Old 08-28-2014, 02:11 PM
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Maybe even doing regular pvc pipe at what ever dimensions that is. Or a couple would be good. Just what ever you end up going with make sure you have enough room in the pipe or multiple pipes for what you may think you want to run. I ran out of space in mine. If I had to do it over I would make sure the builder used larger pipe for my 2 runs.

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post #18 of 34 Old 08-28-2014, 03:50 PM
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If a straight run with rigid PVC is possible up to the attic, that would be a preferred method. 3/4" flex in short sections coupled together is the last resort. You want to search for Carlon Resi Gard flex conduit, in a diameter of at least 1.25". Usually comes in 50' sections or longer. Splices are nothing but potential trouble, not only for separation, but for creating another ridge for your wire pulling to hang up on. A 3/4" ID pathway won't hold much, 4 cat 5's or a couple of RG6 coax, much more and you risk damaging things during installation.
The most important thing to remember when routing your conduit run is to avoid having more than 3 bends before a breakout point. 4 bends or more and you create so much friction, it will very difficult to pull cabling in without exceeding its pulling tension limits and compromising its performance. Wire pulling lubricant will help, but avoiding bends is the safest way to ensure your future pathway is truly usable.
If you seal up the open ends of your conduits with a small ball of insulation and some electrical tape, it will greatly reduce the cold air infiltration.
If your flex conduit doesn't come with a pre-installed pull string, a vacuum cleaner and "mouse" made of some plastic sheeting with a pull string tied on can make the job far easier.

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post #19 of 34 Old 08-28-2014, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
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Is there a reason to avoid flex for going up to the attic?
cost. one inch stiff conduit is about 30¢ a foot, flex $1.00 a foot.


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post #20 of 34 Old 08-29-2014, 08:04 AM
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Like Weasel said about the pull string I used my shop vac and a bag from HD I think. The small plastic kind. I just cut the top part with the handle ares off. tied the pull string to it and rolled it up in a ball and stuffed in in one end. Then took the old shop vac to the other end and sucked it right through. It was really cool how well that works! Another tip if your running your conduit and any wire now in advance is to run any pre wire out side the conduit. The reason is now it's easy to run your wire so you don't really need the conduit so when it comes time that you may or will need it it's open for any cable you put in it. The only thing in my flex runs in my basent at the moment are the pull strings. I prewired but zip tied the cable to the outside of my runs.

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post #21 of 34 Old 08-31-2014, 04:59 PM
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I would run actual electrical conduit to your attic and not go with the flex for that. But using the flex to key spots is nice and easy. You may want to run a few chases of regular conduit up to your attic actually. I did and was glad for it. I filled mine with cat6 and coax pretty quick. i was able to get a coax for TV and a couple cat6 per bedroom though. I have 4 bedrooms up there so that's quite a bit of cable. But I also terminted one to a remote switch in my kids closet so I can add network lines down the road if I ever want to.
I was afraid of this. Im under new construction and my builder only offers ONE 1.5" conduit from basment to attic. I initially wanted to run multiple cat5e\6 to each bed room (Also 4, plus a bonus room) but Im having to scrap\adjust my plans..
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post #22 of 34 Old 08-31-2014, 09:11 PM
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I was afraid of this. Im under new construction and my builder only offers ONE 1.5" conduit from basment to attic. I initially wanted to run multiple cat5e\6 to each bed room (Also 4, plus a bonus room) but Im having to scrap\adjust my plans..
Why? Do you mean *you* wanted to run multiple cables after construction? During construction they can run as much wire as you want (read: pay for) outside the conduit...


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post #23 of 34 Old 09-01-2014, 07:06 AM
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How do you meet code when running conduit from the basement to the attic? That is, can you simply cap off each end? Or do you have to install fire caulking and if so how do you modify this in the future? Can you cut/drill through that stuff?

Bob
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post #24 of 34 Old 09-01-2014, 02:05 PM
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3M makes fire barrier products in a number of forms. Putty, pillows, sheets. The products I've used in the past stay relatively pliable, allowing you to peel them open and add wires as needed.

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post #25 of 34 Old 09-03-2014, 07:28 AM
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Why? Do you mean *you* wanted to run multiple cables after construction? During construction they can run as much wire as you want (read: pay for) outside the conduit...
The builders price per run was prohibitively expensive. It was not in the budget to have them do it. The idea of getting the conduit was to do it myself.

Doing it outside of conduit is still an option that's still being evaluated.
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The builders price per run was prohibitively expensive. It was not in the budget to have them do it. The idea of getting the conduit was to do it myself.
If you're running the wires later, you might be able to place an Ethernet switch upstairs (preferrably a location with a power outlet - but you can buy a PoE switch, too, $$), to fan out connections to all the bedrooms and not completely fill your conduit. That only works for Ethernet, not any other use of the cat5 cables... Not ideal, but in the face of $100/drop fees, might be a decent DIY compromise.


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post #27 of 34 Old 09-03-2014, 09:42 AM
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Yea similar to what I did. I put mine in my kid's walk in closet up on a shelf. I can get new ethernet lines into my upstairs bedrooms through it.

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post #28 of 34 Old 09-03-2014, 10:35 PM
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The builders price per run was prohibitively expensive. It was not in the budget to have them do it. The idea of getting the conduit was to do it myself.

Doing it outside of conduit is still an option that's still being evaluated.
I have to ask, is the run straight up a wall, or would it snake around a lot of framing and such? If it's a straight shot and all he has to do is drill a few holes then it shouldn't be prohibitively expensive in new construction. Even in my expensive as hell area ( L.A. beach community) for a straight shot say 40' just for a low voltage chase , drill through at attic , second floor , and through to crawl space or basement with 1" I would only charge in the neighborhood of $ 150 , maybe $50 ea for a couple more. Again this is for straight up and down, lots of twists and turns would add a lot to the labor side , but whatever it is , in new construction running just pipe shouldn't be prohibitively expensive.
Slap the chases in yourself , it's pretty simple, workers at Home depot or lowes should be able to help with what you'll need . Remember though , oversize the holes for the pipe you are running , and forstner bits for drilling through your framing kick a whole lot of butt.

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post #29 of 34 Old 09-04-2014, 08:05 AM
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I have to ask, is the run straight up a wall, or would it snake around a lot of framing and such? If it's a straight shot and all he has to do is drill a few holes then it shouldn't be prohibitively expensive in new construction. Even in my expensive as hell area ( L.A. beach community) for a straight shot say 40' just for a low voltage chase , drill through at attic , second floor , and through to crawl space or basement with 1" I would only charge in the neighborhood of $ 150 , maybe $50 ea for a couple more. Again this is for straight up and down, lots of twists and turns would add a lot to the labor side , but whatever it is , in new construction running just pipe shouldn't be prohibitively expensive.
Slap the chases in yourself , it's pretty simple, workers at Home depot or lowes should be able to help with what you'll need . Remember though , oversize the holes for the pipe you are running , and forstner bits for drilling through your framing kick a whole lot of butt.
Specifically - running the conduit from attic to basement, is $560 - its 1.5" conduit,and I dont get much of an option as to where it will end up. The sub contractor will pick a spot that allows for the easiest run (straightest possible) probably towards the middle of the floor plan.

I might try to hire someone to add a few more if I can get the same prices you would charge. Hell, they charge $130 buck per home-run ethernet that is outside of conduit.
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post #30 of 34 Old 09-06-2014, 07:35 PM
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Specifically - running the conduit from attic to basement, is $560 - its 1.5" conduit,and I dont get much of an option as to where it will end up. The sub contractor will pick a spot that allows for the easiest run (straightest possible) probably towards the middle of the floor plan.

I might try to hire someone to add a few more if I can get the same prices you would charge. Hell, they charge $130 buck per home-run ethernet that is outside of conduit.

There are variables that I might not see or know of naturally, but basically a straight shot attic to basement with 1.5" EMT conduit is $12 per 10' length, figure another $20-$30 for connectors and straps to secure the pipe in place,along with chase nipples at each end so there's no sharp edge to cut into your cabling, and if there's no difficult framing to drill through, the project shouldn't take one man 2 hours to complete. I don't know what rates are where you live , but I'm seeing about $70 in material so if it is a simple straight run, they are looking at a HEALTHY profit margin. Turns and bends will add up,both parts and labor because you can't hand bend 1.5", but I couldn't imagine your situation being more than another $50-100 parts and possibly another hour,but I could be wrong
If you are at all handy, or know someone who is, watch a YouTube video or two, get a 1 3/4" paddle or forstner bit and diy. If you are in the L.A. area I'd be happy to look at it for you.

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