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post #481 of 982 Old 03-10-2016, 08:15 AM
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Don't worry about naner plugs, just do direct connection to the receiver. It's more secure.

If you plan any type of minidsp or EQ box for the subs, just use that rca splitter. If you want to go XLR, get a HOSA converter. http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-GXR-135-X...osa+rca+to+xlr
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post #482 of 982 Old 03-10-2016, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Q: will the AVR you will use have subwoofer 1 and subwoofer 2 banks? If just a single subwoofer out you'll need a splitter. You'll probably only find two end of the spectrum for the splitters - super cheap like that, or expensive like a Monster cable splitter. The expensive ones will be better shielded against electrical noise and interference. For cables - monoprice works great with their premium line, but yes that splitter looks cheesy to me.
No AVR selected yet but I would like one with 2 sub outs that way I have a little more flexibility on the two sub banks
Maybe I will hold off on the splitter for now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
You'll find a two pole speakon connector sufficient for the Mackie pro audio speakers (and easier internally to use). 4 poles are used when you want to either a) send separate signal to woofer/tweeter for an active setup) or b) daisy chain two pro audio speakers off the same signal. 4 poles will work for your application - but you don't need them, and you don't need four wires internally in your speaker wire to the Mackie - so don't pay extra for that either.
http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=115&cp_id=11509&cs_id=1150903&p_id=60 1500&seq=1&format=2
I was just thinking of buying all the same for... but ya I will get 2 pole for the Mackie's if they are easier to work with.
There will only be 1 pair of 14 gauge wire going to the Mackies..... there will be 2 pair of 14 gauge for the 21's due to the Watts


With the two pair of 14 gauge for each sub what would you recommend for terminating at the amp?
Just a 2 pole with two wires on each terminal.... might be tight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
You can just use regular speaker wire from that point forward. Alternatively you can buy a 50' (or whatever length) Speakon to Speakon cable, cut it in half and bam you've got two AVR to Mackie C200 cables with the speakon end already terminated. (not that big of a deal - terminating speakon is easy) But if you want a good cable for the money - seismic audio seems like it fits the bill. It's 12 gauge true copper and good quality rubber coated copper cable for the money. I've ordered from them several times.
http://www.seismicaudiospeakers.com/deal-of-the-day - it's on sale today.
http://www.seismicaudiospeakers.com/...?query=speakon to speakon&sortBy=
I've no idea if they service Canada.
I already have the ~75ft of 14 gauge speaker runs (7 in total) to the front wall installed so I will go with the connectors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
You've picked out the wrong cable for the AVR to iNuke signal cable. You want a male XLR to the iNuke rather than the female you pictured.
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4777
Good catch thank you!


Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Don't worry about naner plugs, just do direct connection to the receiver. It's more secure.

If you plan any type of minidsp or EQ box for the subs, just use that rca splitter. If you want to go XLR, get a HOSA converter. http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-GXR-135-X...osa+rca+to+xlr
Oh common naners are pretty and I hate spinning those damb terminals with my sausage fingers
I had not planned on a separate dsp but have been looking at inuke6000dsp for the 21's...... @Fattykidd just suggested a minidsp 2x4 to handle all the subs..... will look closer at soon
I'll look at the HOSA


Thanks guys

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post #483 of 982 Old 03-10-2016, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterboy77 View Post
No AVR selected yet but I would like one with 2 sub outs that way I have a little more flexibility on the two sub banks
Maybe I will hold off on the splitter for now

"]http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=115&cp_id=11509&cs_id=1150903&p_id=60 1500&seq=1&format=2[/URL]
I was just thinking of buying all the same for... but ya I will get 2 pole for the Mackie's if they are easier to work with.
There will only be 1 pair of 14 gauge wire going to the Mackies..... there will be 2 pair of 14 gauge for the 21's due to the Watts


With the two pair of 14 gauge for each sub what would you recommend for terminating at the amp?
Just a 2 pole with two wires on each terminal.... might be tight


I already have the ~75ft of 14 gauge speaker runs (7 in total) to the front wall installed so I will go with the connectors


Good catch thank you!



Oh common naners are pretty and I hate spinning those damb terminals with my sausage fingers
I had not planned on a separate dsp but have been looking at inuke6000dsp for the 21's...... @Fattykidd just suggested a minidsp 2x4 to handle all the subs..... will look closer at soon
I'll look at the HOSA


Thanks guys[/QUOTE]

The distance from the amps to the front wall is 75ft?

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post #484 of 982 Old 03-10-2016, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterboy77 View Post
No AVR selected yet but I would like one with 2 sub outs that way I have a little more flexibility on the two sub banks
Maybe I will hold off on the splitter for now

"]http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=115&cp_id=11509&cs_id=1150903&p_id=60 1500&seq=1&format=2[/URL]
I was just thinking of buying all the same for... but ya I will get 2 pole for the Mackie's if they are easier to work with.
There will only be 1 pair of 14 gauge wire going to the Mackies..... there will be 2 pair of 14 gauge for the 21's due to the Watts


With the two pair of 14 gauge for each sub what would you recommend for terminating at the amp?
Just a 2 pole with two wires on each terminal.... might be tight


I already have the ~75ft of 14 gauge speaker runs (7 in total) to the front wall installed so I will go with the connectors


Good catch thank you!



Oh common naners are pretty and I hate spinning those damb terminals with my sausage fingers
I had not planned on a separate dsp but have been looking at inuke6000dsp for the 21's...... @Fattykidd just suggested a minidsp 2x4 to handle all the subs..... will look closer at soon
I'll look at the HOSA


Thanks guys[/QUOTE]

The distance from the amps to the front wall is 75ft?

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post #485 of 982 Old 03-10-2016, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
The distance from the amps to the front wall is 75ft?

Yup about that as the wire runs up, over, across, down..... as the crow flies 32 ft

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post #486 of 982 Old 03-10-2016, 12:23 PM
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75' is borderline too long.
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable


Two 14 gauge cables are the equivalent of 11 gauge.


Doubling up wire drops the original gauge by 3 numbers.




------
On the 2 pole vs. 4 pole speakon - its just that the screws and terminal hole inside the connector that you attach the speaker wire to can be bigger on the 2 pole since there is less of everything to fit in the speakon.
--------




Notice also - different speakon connectors have different amp load ratings - not sure how much it matters --- but FYI.
http://www.neutrik.com/en/speakon/sp...le-connectors/

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post #487 of 982 Old 03-10-2016, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
75' is borderline too long.
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable

Two 14 gauge cables are the equivalent of 11 gauge.

Doubling up wire drops the original gauge by 3 numbers.

------
On the 2 pole vs. 4 pole speakon - its just that the screws and terminal hole inside the connector that you attach the speaker wire to can be bigger on the 2 pole since there is less of everything to fit in the speakon.
--------

Notice also - different speakon connectors have different amp load ratings - not sure how much it matters --- but FYI.
http://www.neutrik.com/en/speakon/sp...le-connectors/
I looked long and hard at the length, db loss and amps associated with the runs I am dealing with.....
Using THIS handy tool / site.... lots of great information here
Image below are the results.... being conservative.... 1200W with 12 gauge wire.... all good

-----
Speakon - I have never worked with these before, do you think I could get the two 14 gauge wires under one terminal of the 2 pole unit?
Unfortunately, Monoprice only reference that it can accept up to 10 gauge speaker wire... no amp rating... The link you sent the smallest I could see was 30 amp
EDIT: did a live chat with Monoprice the 2 pole is 25 amp rated
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post #488 of 982 Old 03-15-2016, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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To dsp or not to dsp... That is the question

Hello,
I have been reading about amps (mostly inuke) and checking out prices.....

Thoughts:
Getting an amp without dsp is obviously cheaper (~70-100 CAD) per amp
An AVR will do some of the signal settings and crossover points but not like an amp with dsp.... from my understanding
Then there are the minidsp's.... and the vast array of their product line..... a little confusing @Fattykidd mentioned the 2x4 minidsp for the two amps that I am going to need for subs as an alternative to built in
Buying the 2 amps with DSP will be about the same cost as buying without and then getting the separate 2x4 minidsp.

Questions:
1. Does a person even need DSP if the AVR (assume Denon 6200 at this time) does some of the settings
2. Does DSP make an notable difference..... especially on subs
3. Could this be viewed as a future upgrade to a 2x4 minidsp
4. Is having the DSP within the amp advantageous over a separate.
5. Would having the move able minidsp be more flexable to the over all system for changes rather that fixed with in amps


Oh and yes I have been trying to work on the basement and been ....slowly.... accomplishing something's....... we've been having to much fun building @Fattykidd cabinets



Thanks for any feedback

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post #489 of 982 Old 03-15-2016, 06:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterboy77 View Post
Hello,
I have been reading about amps (mostly inuke) and checking out prices.....



Questions:
1. Does a person even need DSP if the AVR (assume Denon 6200 at this time) does some of the settings

Yes, the external dsp wil be used to delay the separate groups of subs properly. And to smooth out anything the room correction has issues with

2. Does DSP make an notable difference..... especially on subs

Yes.. you remember what my subs sounded like when we were doing the dirac measurements. Boomy, bloated and completely out of place

3. Could this be viewed as a future upgrade to a 2x4 minidsp

Yes it can be added later, But.. for the $140, in the grand scheme of things..

4. Is having the DSP within the amp advantageous over a separate.

No external box to house.. would eliminate a pair of cables.

5. Would having the move able minidsp be more flexable to the over all system for changes rather that fixed with in amps

The inukes are limited to 20hz and above.. the minidsp is 10hz and above. To me that's enough right there to go minidsp. No matter what configuration or amplifiers you upgrade/downgrade you will always have the minidsp.
My minidsp opendrc is the one piece of gear I have not changed in the last 2 years. Every other item I own has been changed once, probably twice in that time.


Oh and yes I have been trying to work on the basement and been ....slowly.... accomplishing something's....... we've been having to much fun building @Fattykidd cabinets

Don't blame me for the lack of progress.... But it has been a ton of fun working on these with ya.

Thanks for any feedback
^^^^
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post #490 of 982 Old 03-22-2016, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I wanted to give a shout out to @darklord700
Thanks for having @Fattykidd and I over the other night for a demo of your system and your new atmos setup. I really enjoyed your system and the space you have it in.
Your Krell speakers are very nice.... such a shame to have to cover them with fabric for light reflect, but totally understandable.

It was really nice to hear an atmos system in a home theater environment compared to a commercial theater. Personally I think it sounded better in your space than a commercial theater. I was able to clearly hear the difference when atmos was on compared to off. The imaging and "bubble" of sound really adds to the experience.

I was even surprised at how up scaling an non native atmos movie added to overall imaging.... was it perfect.... no.... but it added in a positive way.

As a result you are going to be costing me more money

What I learned from this experience is that separation of the surrounds to the atmos speakers will be very important. As a result I am lowering my surrounds from where I currently had them planed. New location to be just high enough to clear the seat backs and heads..... this will put the speaker center at ~50" from floor. Originally I had them much higher at ~ 68" from floor (based on ~2 ft above ear height). The way I am installing the shelves for them I will have the ability to raise them slightly if needed.... this will require tweaking and playing during setup and calibration. Current though it 4 volt 6's for atmos to match the planned 4 for surrounds.

Thanks to @beastaudio for putting the bug in my ear about atmos and not going with surrounds in the bulkheads way back in the day. If I had I would really have to do major reworking to change

Atmos WILL be a future upgrade in my system and one that I am very excited about!
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post #491 of 982 Old 03-22-2016, 10:08 AM
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Also keep in mind that the new atmos and DTS:X encodings are also contributing to the overall experience. Even without atmos speakers initially, you will still reap the benefits of object based audio in just the bed channels. So many people brush off atmos....until they hear it done properly in a home environment, then it magically becomes a "Must have."
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post #492 of 982 Old 03-22-2016, 10:25 AM
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Hi Waterboy, it was nice having you and Fattykidd over the other night and sharing our hobby. Good luck with you build and look forward to seeing and hearing your HT when it is done.
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post #493 of 982 Old 03-22-2016, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
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Hi Waterboy, it was nice having you and Fattykidd over the other night and sharing our hobbits. Good luck with you build and look forward to seeing and hearing your HT when it is done.
OH wow, how many hobbits did you guys share? That sounds a little odd.

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post #494 of 982 Old 03-22-2016, 11:52 AM
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Red face

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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
OH wow, how many hobbits did you guys share? That sounds a little odd.
Ah, damn the spell check.
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post #495 of 982 Old 03-22-2016, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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oh wow, how many hobbits did you guys share? That sounds a little odd.
lmao

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post #496 of 982 Old 03-22-2016, 03:14 PM
 
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Tag me in.. It's my turn with the hobbit. Lol.

But seriously.. I've put my xmc up for sale again.. Just can't decide whether to go with anthem or marantz for prepro.. Our demo at darklord's place Saturday pished me over the edge towards atmos as well.

I also see yamaha has released an atmos enabled prepro. Something to consider..
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post #497 of 982 Old 03-23-2016, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fattykidd View Post
Tag me in.. It's my turn with the hobbit. Lol.

But seriously.. I've put my xmc up for sale again.. Just can't decide whether to go with anthem or marantz for prepro.. Our demo at darklord's place Saturday pished me over the edge towards atmos as well.

I also see yamaha has released an atmos enabled prepro. Something to consider..
I've been chatting with WB about the anthem a little bit. ARC is something I have always wanted to give a shot in my space. I am not a huge fan of what audyssey does, so a different iteration of REQ interests me greatly. That and the fact that there is absolutely no video processing, which I don't need. I will be getting one in the near future to test against my marantz 7702. The winner stays

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post #498 of 982 Old 03-23-2016, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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That and the fact that there is absolutely no video processing, which I don't need. I will be getting one in the near future to test against my marantz 7702. The winner stays
I hope you get it soon so you can give us a review

Can you expand on the video processing and why you don't need it?
Is it due to your feed signals being and oppo and xbox only... or do you have other video processing going on?
The Anthem is strictly pass through where as others (Denon, Marantz) can up convert standard definition.

This might be a point of concern for me as I will probably watch some satellite TV on the big screen...... and although they say its HD..... it sure doesn't look like it ..... depending on the station

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post #499 of 982 Old 03-23-2016, 09:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I've been chatting with WB about the anthem a little bit. ARC is something I have always wanted to give a shot in my space. I am not a huge fan of what audyssey does, so a different iteration of REQ interests me greatly. That and the fact that there is absolutely no video processing, which I don't need. I will be getting one in the near future to test against my marantz 7702. The winner stays
Does the Marantz do correction on the atmos channels or just the bed channels ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterboy77 View Post
I hope you get it soon so you can give us a review

Can you expand on the video processing and why you don't need it?
Is it due to your feed signals being and oppo and xbox only... or do you have other video processing going on?
The Anthem is strictly pass through where as others (Denon, Marantz) can up convert standard definition.

This might be a point of concern for me as I will probably watch some satellite TV on the big screen...... and although they say its HD..... it sure doesn't look like it ..... depending on the station
Video passthrough is very desirable as processing sometimes softens the 1080 picture .
My hd channels at my place are superb. Very impressive.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterboy77 View Post
I hope you get it soon so you can give us a review

Can you expand on the video processing and why you don't need it?
Is it due to your feed signals being and oppo and xbox only... or do you have other video processing going on?
The Anthem is strictly pass through where as others (Denon, Marantz) can up convert standard definition.

This might be a point of concern for me as I will probably watch some satellite TV on the big screen...... and although they say its HD..... it sure doesn't look like it ..... depending on the station
My Projector can do any of the major processing I would want. Eshift-4k (upscaling), sharpness, dynamic contrast, etc. and I would rather just leave it all there. I run XB1, Oppo, DirectV, as sources, and even the directv looks fine. I have never used the video processing in any of my units so I just don't find a need for it at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fattykidd View Post
Does the Marantz do correction on the atmos channels or just the bed channels ?


Video passthrough is very desirable as processing sometimes softens the 1080 picture .
My hd channels at my place are superb. Very impressive.
The Marantz corrects all channels
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post #501 of 982 Old 03-27-2016, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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My First Amp Ever!

Pulled the trigger on an amp for the 21's
No cables to hook it up but I did hear it at the guys place I bought it from


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post #502 of 982 Old 04-04-2016, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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@BIGmouthinDC I have been trying to find your video on the fabric panels that you posted in someone's thread....

I need to build some removable ones for in my columns

Also how much space do you allow for the fabric (GOM Sensa) to get a somewhat tight fit

..

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post #503 of 982 Old 04-05-2016, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Column Trim

Finally get a chance to do an update..... I have a couple to do but I guess I will start here with the trim


I decided to make my own after some sage advice from my aunt. I have more time than money so I figured why not
In total I needed to make 16 corner assemblies to wrap the corner of each column
32 trim boards at ~$8.00 a board = $260
2 sheets of 3/4" mdf = ~$90......... save $170..... I like saving money

I ripped the sheet good down to 16x 3 1/2" pieces and 16x 2 3/4" pieces on the table saw..... had to rough cut them with the skill saw so it was more manageable

Waiting a ready for next step


With them ripped I stood them up on edge and sanded them with 180 grit paper on random orbital sander...... made it easy standing them up. Only a couple had to be touched up after to get a nice smooth edge. Then I routed three edges with a 1/8" round over to get ride of the sharp exposed edge


To assemble the two pieces I use the boards up on edge to act as a support for the other piece being brad nailed in
Used 2" 18 gauge brads every 8-10"...... only had blow out on 4 brads Once attached I filled any bad spots then hit them again with 180 grit to try to get the seam between them as invisible as possible. Some are pretty damb good.... some I see but its acceptable to me


Painting.... this was my biggest concern area as the edge cuts of mdf can fuzz up pretty bad.... was hoping @granroth would do his video on painting mdf ... his messages got me going in the right direction THANKS

I first used an oil based primer, sanded with 180 grit then two coats of white latex.... to apply paint I used a "velvet" roller.... it makes for a smoother surface than the foam rollers
Pretty happy with the result..... and no fuzzing on cut edges The velvet roller puts the paint on pretty thin so another coat will be needed once nail holes are filled.


And installed..... Really happy with the result and look. I had a little freak out when the first column was done as I thought I had made the trim to wide...... but I calmed down.... think it was due to being so accustomed to having nothing on them for so long. Oh ya I also got the last of the ceiling installed YA. Next.... need to get at baseboards.....ETC....


For the observant... there is a sneak peek of the screen also..... I will do up a better post when its done


With the trim and the boxes for @Fattykidd the air filter got a heck of a workout
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post #504 of 982 Old 04-05-2016, 06:06 PM
 
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Yay !!! A screen.
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post #505 of 982 Old 04-05-2016, 06:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Another sneak peek........


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One day I will start the new theater....... one day..... THAT DAY HAS ARRIVED
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post #506 of 982 Old 04-05-2016, 07:18 PM
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Keep it up Waterboy, your HT is starting to take shape and it's looking great already.
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post #507 of 982 Old 04-06-2016, 09:51 AM
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Fantastic update! Really coming together now
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post #508 of 982 Old 04-08-2016, 09:46 AM
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looking sharp.
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post #509 of 982 Old 04-08-2016, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fattykidd View Post
Yay !!! A screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darklord700 View Post
Keep it up Waterboy, your HT is starting to take shape and it's looking great already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Fantastic update! Really coming together now
Quote:
Originally Posted by 24Changer View Post
looking sharp.

Thanks Guys, we are really happy to see the vision coming together..... although slowly. Still lots of work to do.... and gear to buy

One day I will start the new theater....... one day..... THAT DAY HAS ARRIVED
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post #510 of 982 Old 04-14-2016, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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White...... to many shades

So why are there so many shades of white????? It's crazy.......

I had some "white" so I painted the column corner trim and window boxes with it..... not even thinking about the "white" that we had used on the other side of the basement.
The other night I realized that this might be an issue so I held up a couple of painted pieces next to each other..... UGH different "WHITES"

Existing white is a "duller" matte white, the recent stuff is a "brighter" glossy white
The ceiling is a "white" somewhere in-between

The corporate decision is to paint the trim all the same in the duller "white".
Reasons...... Its duller "less" light reflection( not that there's much trim near the screen) and the same as rest of basement.... not that anyone would really know..... but I will

Now is the time as I still have to do another coat on the column and window box trim after filling nail holes and I am gearing up for more trim and baseboards

Kind of wish we I had caught it earlier........ UGH

One day I will start the new theater....... one day..... THAT DAY HAS ARRIVED
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." Red Green
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