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help me spend please

416 views 11 replies 4 participants last post by  mthomas47 
#1 ·
I am not sure if I am posting in the correct place or not - please excuse if I am in the wrong place.


My woman and I are looking to improve our old surround sound system. We are not building a home theater but we want the effect and we listen to a lot of music. Our room is large (30' x 26'), currently the ageing 5.1 fills the room but the speakers are in one corner (literally 1/4 of the room) surrounding the couch. the rest of the room is used for various things - pool table, reading area and the like. I am sure you all will ask for a drawing but I don't have one. I run this system as surround for the large TV and music to fill the room. I would like remote speakers near the pool table.


So far here are my selections:


TV: Sony XBR75X850D 4K HDR Ultra HD Smart TV


Receiver: Marantz AV7703
Amp: Marantz PM-11S3


Speakers / Subs: undetermined, need help


without speakers I am in around 10K. Speaker budget can be 4K for surround and 4K for subs. So if you make speaker suggestions please try and stay within this budget. I like in your face base, watching a movie I want to feel the base of a shotgun firing.


Open to opinions on my TV selection and receiver/amplifier. I want to make sure what I select will pair well.


thank you all in advance.
 
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#2 ·
You are starting fresh but you should post in the speaker threads for more answers. Since you have a decent budget you'll get lots of choices, its always better to hear them first, everyone has different tastes and most will recommend speakers they own, myself included. Which is why I would recommend getting in touch with JTR speakers and see what he can do for a package deal great speakers and his subs are top notch by all accounts. PSA and SVS and others have great 30-45 day trials, you can send them back if you dont like them.

Take some time to read some threads and talk to some companies, all almost all of them will be willing to talk to you and help guide to meet your expectations. Great advice on here so I wish you luck, no matter where you end up im sure you'll be happy in the end.
 
#3 ·
Thanks - I will search JTR as you suggest. Also, I have been reading threads here all morning - vast opinions but a world ok knowledge. I do see SVS mentioned a lot and I searched the SVS Ultra bookshelf package. They are well reviewed and clearly have great support, but they also look large to me. I am not adverse to large speakers but I would at a least prefer a less intrusive center speaker. The SVS subwoofers I would need to go hear, I see they have a package for 2 16" that's in the budget. I doubt I would like the ported version they offer. I wrote down some notes on other speakers that have been well reviewed and will begin researching them next.


I will post in the speakers section as you suggest, first I will let this thread play out so not to post duplicate threads.


I was hoping since this is a home theater section that it would be all inclusive, and a large concern of mine is ensuring matched power to speakers. I am not 100% sold on anything I posted and would appreciate feedback/opinions on it all. Its a lot of money to spend and I, like so many before me, don't want to make a mistake.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Hi Jake,

It's hard to define audio "mistakes" as we all have different priorities and tastes, and we all learn as we go. There are three general suggestions I would make, though. First, although having a separate pre-amp/processor is sexy looking, there are very good AVR's available which would save you some money, and deliver comparable sound quality. Marantz, with XT-32, is an excellent choice, but freeing up money for speakers/subs with a comparable AVR (7010 or 7011) would be a good way to go. If you select reasonably sensitive speakers, a good AVR will have plenty of clean power, and you won't need a separate amplifier. The amplifier you are currently looking at is only a two-channel amplifier (with only 100 watts per channel in 8 ohms) so you would be left without any way to run a 5-channel system. Okay, maybe we can define some audio mistakes. :p Please just get a good AVR which does everything. Marantz marketing and sales won't thank you, but your checkbook will.

Second, with such a large area, even though your listening area is confined to one quadrant, some of your bass will be lost. You will also not be getting much room gain, until you are below 20Hz, and I'm guessing that you are probably on a concrete slab in that large room. If so, concrete doesn't transmit tactile bass sensations very well. So, to get serious ULF (
 
#5 ·
Thanks for the replies !


By mistake I mean buying without getting some opinions and spending cash where it can be avoided.


And out of the box you have pointed a huge mistake in the amp I selected will not run my surround sound ! ugh .... that would have sucked. back to the drawing board.


okay - let me rephrase. If you had up to 15K to spend for a surround sound system going into the room I have described what would you buy? perfectly acceptable to come in under budget :) and I am asking for opinions and I know they will vary. But I want something really nice, strong base for my movies and yet can still fill the room with music when entertaining. I feel so turned around after reading all the threads on this forum.
 
#7 · (Edited)
You are welcome! I don't think that opinions alone are going to be quite enough here. But there are a couple of places where I don't mind trying to advise you. If you are on a concrete slab (you haven't said yet), then in a space that size, I strongly recommend ported subs. And, I made a couple of very good recommendations for that. I would especially recommend two Cap 2400 ULF subs from JTR. I really don't think you can do better than that for HT, unless you want to go all out with the Cap 4000 ULF's. If you are saving some money on amplifier/pre-pro, you would have plenty even for the 4000 ULF's and they are probably the most powerful commercial subs you can buy. But, again, it's a big room, so there will be some bass lost, and you will get almost no room gain, and if you are on concrete, you will have to generate all of your own ULF (
 
#6 ·
jakeHayz,

If we all try hard enough, we can stop that "spinning around" sensation in it's tracks. But if you read "too much"...spinning isn't gonna nbe the issue...it will be a bout of "Brain Bleed"! :eek:

BTW....in a General Home Theater Forum such as this, you should indeed get purposefully directed responses.

The "Speaker" and "Sub" Forums are too limited to only information concerning those items. On here, you'll get posts on what Speakers / Subs will most effectively match up to your Room's needs....which seem multi-purpose.

mthomas47's advice is the most "sound" (...horrible pun...) A good AVR is the way to go....and with a 4K display, you'll want one with the latest 4K Transfer abilities.

In the semi-esoteric vein, Receivers such as the Integra DRX-5 or DRX-7 are exceptional values.

Outlaw Ultra-X12 Sub Woofers are extremely attractive and 2 can give you tremendously tight Bass response in a room even larger than you have....and for a reasonable sum too.
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/ultra.html.

Personally speaking, I do not think large, front ported Subs are for you simply because they will introduce more acoustic issues that you almost assuredly won't be able to deal with.

Your Speaker options will be the singular most defining choice to make, and should be based around your Rooms configuration and Seating. A Floor Plan diagram (...and Images...) would be not just helpful, but virtually essential in anyone giving you the best possible suggestions.
 
#8 ·
MississippiMan mthomas47 - thank you both for the feedback, a wealth of knowledge !


I am on a concrete slab - forgot that I should have added that.


I searched the JTR Subs and found a local dealership and was able to hear many speaker options. The issue I have is the audio rooms I visited (2 stores) are much smaller, well insulated and sounded beyond words - I know far well they will not sound the same in my room. So I had issues trying to select what I liked and to be honest I liked everything.


JTR 4000 are sweet looking but too large for my taste the 2400 would fit very nicely into my design. The bass they deliver is exactly what I am looking for so thank you for the recommendation. Of course in my room they probably wont sound as good as in the store. From what I listened to the ported subs are packing much more chest feeling bass, this is what I want.


You guys have me convinced on the AVR rather than the route I was trying to go. The Integra DRX-7 is comparably priced to the Marantz AV7703 (I think its $100 difference) and the Integra is putting out more power. I am just not familiar with Integra, I don't mind throwing money at my AVR as its going to be around a long while. And these considerations are very under budget, so if there something bigger and better out there feel free to point them out.


Speakers continue to elude me and I will continue to research. I guess I was looking for someone to say these speakers, these subs and this receiver and you will be happy :) I do accept room size and everything else to consider is a challenge. Back to reading
 
#9 ·
You are very welcome, and it sounds as if you have already made a lot of progress. Just take your time with the speakers, and do multiple auditions. You are a very good potential customer, and they will be glad to accommodate you. Try picking out just one speaker system to listen to--two-channel only, with some music you really like. Spend some time with it. Then, switch to a second system and do the same thing. Listen for subtle things that you do, and don't like. Perhaps a warmer tone versus a clearer tone. Deeper bass versus a more prominent mid-range. Warmth versus clarity. Whatever differences you hear, just let them filter into your subconscious. Over a period of several days, you will start to hear more, and will start to develop more definite preferences. You won't have to force it, I think. It will just happen naturally.

You are right that the speakers will sound a bit different in your room, although the basic sound signature won't change too much. But, when you are ready to buy, just buy on approval and give yourself a few days to find out how you like them in your room. And, don't be afraid to swap them out if you aren't sure you like them. This will be a fairly big expenditure, so again, I am sure they will accommodate you. And, as you develop a relationship, they will be looking for repeat business.

In time, you may very well choose to invest some time and effort in some room treatments of your own, to enhance the natural sound of the speakers you like, in your room. This is a process, and it is best to think of it that way. You can just throw money at a sound system, but it is much more rewarding to learn as you go, honing your own appreciation for what you are hearing, and enhancing your audio environment to your own satisfaction. :)

Regards,
Mike
 
#10 · (Edited)
Hi Mike - thank you for your feed back on the forum.


My girlfriend and I were out visiting potential speaks that need a home last night and will be listening to some more this evening. Its been a LOT of fun and so far we are on the same page for what we are looking for. We both keep going back to the SVS Ultra bookshelfs but we heard some Klipsch that had superior clarity which we enjoyed for music but not for movies - ugh. On the SVS web site they have a 5 speakers for $2,700 - It would be a start and I can add more SVS speakers if I choose to go to 7 or eventually 11 set ups. Chances are we will pull the trigger on the SVS 5 speakers set up, but this evening we will be listening to Kef and Elac so we shall see.


I am looking into these receivers and would enjoy your opinion (I am on the fence between the SVS Ultra SB16 subs or the JTR's - we both feel they are similar to the point when not facing we cant tell which one is firing) so it may just be a price decision.


okay, receivers. here is the list that I think fit the bill

Anthem MRX 1120
Marantz AV7703
Denon AVRX6300H
Integra DRX-7


I think all these put out 4K signals for my TV and I am interested in having the ability to grow my system and include multiple zones. Speakers are something I can see me swapping out before upgrading my receiver, so I want to buy the best I can afford and be able to grow into it.


thanks for any input and guidance !
 
#12 · (Edited)
Hi Mark - thank you for your feed back on the forum.


My girlfriend and I were out visiting potential speaks that need a home last night and will be listening to some more this evening. Its been a LOT of fun and so far we are on the same page for what we are looking for. We both keep going back to the SVS Ultra bookshelfs but we heard some Klipsch that had superior clarity which we enjoyed for music but not for movies - ugh. On the SVS web site they have a 5 speakers for $2,700 - It would be a start and I can add more SVS speakers if I choose to go to 7 or eventually 11 set ups. Chances are we will pull the trigger on the SVS 5 speakers set up, but this evening we will be listening to Kef and Elac so we shall see.


I am looking into these receivers and would enjoy your opinion (I am on the fence between the SVS Ultra SB16 subs or the JTR's - we both feel they are similar to the point when not facing we cant tell which one is firing) so it may just be a price decision.


okay, receivers. here is the list that I think fit the bill

Anthem MRX 1120
Marantz AV7703
Denon AVRX6300H
Integra DRX-7


I think all these put out 4K signals for my TV and I am interested in having the ability to grow my system and include multiple zones. Speakers are something I can see me swapping out before upgrading my receiver, so I want to buy the best I can afford and be able to grow into it.


thanks for any input and guidance !
Hi Jake,

You are welcome, and don't worry about the typo. I think you have to have about 8 posts before the edit feature pops up. Any of those brands would be good, so I don't know that there is much to choose among them. I am most familiar with Audyssey and have always been partial to Marantz, so that would probably be my personal choice, FWIW. Remember, though, that the Marantz model you are looking at does not contain amplifiers. The AV designation means it is just a pre-pro (an AV processor and pre-amplifier). So, you will also need to buy a separate amplifier, which in my opinion, would be a waste of money. A comparable Marantz AVR would be the SR7011, which would be a very good choice. I didn't check the others, except for the Denon, but you are looking for an AVR, which contains built-in amplifiers, all in one unit.

I have 4 SVS Ultra subs, in a large room (28' x 24' x 9'), on a concrete slab, and I do use all of the room. Three of them are PB16's, and the fourth is a nearfield PB13 (2' behind my listening chair). I started with SVS subs, a number of years ago. I like my subs very much, and have simply upgraded over the years to their newest and most powerful models. But, there is literally no comparison in output, and low-end extension, between the PB16 and The JTR Cap 2400 ULF. If I were about to buy subs today, it wouldn't be a close call for me. I would buy the Cap 2400's, which is why I recommended them to you. Dual 2400's would have way more output, particularly below about 14Hz, and above about 35Hz, than all four of my Ultras combined. If you end up never using all of the output you have available, which I don't, it might not matter as much, although the very low bass would still be better for action movies. But, I would still buy the JTR subs, if I were starting out today. And, the subs don't need to be the same brand as the speakers you choose.

It sounds as if you are having fun shopping for speakers. You are probably right that you may end up trying more than one kind. That's part of what makes this hobby so much fun. :)

Regards,
Mike
 
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