HT or is it???? - Page 24 - AVS Forum
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post #691 of 702 Old 09-24-2005, 12:34 PM
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I'm with Pat. If not for the "watering down" of HT as you put it, Redhouse, we would not have easy and cheap access to a lot of gear. It's a necessary evil and it's one I'm willing to accept to get the economies of scale inherent in commoditized products. It's not that I don't agree that the term "home theater" is watered down, but sitting there and having a temper tantrum about it on an online forum (and, in my opinion, looking like an arrogant ass in the process) isn't doing anybody any good. Well, correction, it's probably serving to keep air in your overly inflated ego. I can't imagine any other reason you've been engaging in this pissing match for this long (other than the very distinct possibility that you're just a troll).

The term has been watered down by marketing. It sucks that the term that once had a very specific meaning now has little meaning. Get over it. Move on. You're wasting your time trying to change what has already happened over the last 10 years. It's not like this is actually an important issue in the context of the real world.

The term didn't get watered down because people didn't speak up and say something. What kind of corny idea is that? It got watered down because the marketing departments of equipment vendors knew they could make money in the burgeoning area of home theater, so they used the term "home theater" to label their equipment. If you're complaining about terms like "home theater in a box," I don't think you have anyone else to blame but the hobbyist community because I'm fairly sure we coined that term, not the companies.

This situation is not unique to home theater by any means. Countless hobbies and specialized areas of interest have become corrupted and commercialized. They've been watered down, reformulated, packaged, and shipped out to stores nationwide. The hobbyists get upset when Joe Sixpack talks like he's an expert in that once-specialized hobby because he popped down to the store and bought one. In my personal experience, I've seen this happen with computers, cars, bicycles, recording studios, and home theater.

You know what? The serious hobbyists - you know, the ones who are actually doing useful things and not wasting months on end posting to stupid un-winnable discussions centered around opinions - look past it. They get over it. They know Joe Sixpack doesn't impact what they're doing. They continue on, quietly and humbly secure in the knowledge that they really know what's going on. It's the newcomers to the scene - the ones who have good potential as serious hobbyists but miss the forest for the trees - that get all bent out of shape and go on misguided quests to fight for all that was once good in the world. Please; we don't need a martyr.

Further proving this is nothing more than a "mine is bigger than yours" situation, you have been belittling people for not showing photos of their setups. Tell me: How does someone having pictures of their rooms and/or equipment in any way, shape or form give ANYONE any sort of credibility in a discussion like this? You have an opinion. Other people have different opinions. You don't have any more or any less credibility than anyone else just because you have some photos of your dedicated room. All it proves is that you have a bias, and that you need to feed your ego by belitting others when they produce photos that don't live up to your standards, or don't produce any at all. Pretty sad, really.
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post #692 of 702 Old 09-24-2005, 12:34 PM
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The dictionary cracks me up,

Theo K, was the man who is the father of Home Theater, you can go back and read what he considers a Home Theater, it the room! So, who's right, the guy created it or the dictionary?

Redhouse
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post #693 of 702 Old 09-24-2005, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
I'm with Pat. If not for the "watering down" of HT as you put it, Redhouse, we would not have easy and cheap access to a lot of gear. It's a necessary evil and it's one I'm willing to accept to get the economies of scale inherent in commoditized products. It's not that I don't agree that the term "home theater" is watered down, but sitting there and having a temper tantrum about it on an online forum (and, in my opinion, looking like an arrogant ass in the process) isn't doing anybody any good. Well, correction, it's probably serving to keep air in your overly inflated ego. I can't imagine any other reason you've been engaging in this pissing match for this long (other than the very distinct possibility that you're just a troll).
Who the hell is being a troll? You come into a discussion at the end I hope and start name calling and talking sh!t. If you don't agree with the discussion or me then don't post in the thread, or share your opinion, but don't start calling me out over it. I think everything you posted so far has shown, you are a troll.

Redhouse
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post #694 of 702 Old 09-24-2005, 01:05 PM
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Prefect, why don't you tell us about your "Home Theater"? How about a few pictures?

Redhouse
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post #695 of 702 Old 09-24-2005, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redhouse
Prefect, why don't you tell us about your "Home Theater"? How about a few pictures?

Redhouse

Wow, that's rich. I was hoping you'd post something like this, further proving my point. I didn't think you'd actually do it, though!
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post #696 of 702 Old 09-24-2005, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Redhouse
Who the hell is being a troll? You come into a discussion at the end I hope and start name calling and talking sh!t. If you don't agree with the discussion or me then don't post in the thread, or share your opinion, but don't start calling me out over it. I think everything you posted so far has shown, you are a troll.

Redhouse
Wake up, I posted to this thread weeks ago. I didn't just start posting to it today. I stopped posting because, though I largely agree that a home theater is a room and not equipment, I didn't really want my opinion to be associated with the way you've been carrying on.
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post #697 of 702 Old 09-24-2005, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redhouse
The dictionary cracks me up,

Theo K, was the man who is the father of Home Theater, you can go back and read what he considers a Home Theater, it the room! So, who's right, the guy created it or the dictionary?

Redhouse
I'd have to say that the dictionary adequately and accurately expresses the common, standard and accepted definition of words and phrases - regardless of what a particular early adapter's original idea may have been. I know there are ample words, phrases, and ideas that have changed drastically between their inception and their current use. Lets take for instance the words computer, automobile, pen, bathroom, world, and television. I would have to say that the associated pioneers/inventors/founders/discoverers/early users of such things would hardly recognize their current definitioins.

And are you telling me that there wasn't anyone who had something they considered to be a theater in their home prior to him and his theater (built in ~1986), and thus he invented/created the idea (and can thereby define it)? Or are you saying he was the first one recognized and published in the industry of creating home theaters as a paid consultant, and thus became a pioneer and spokesperson? The two are completely different.

Finally, where does he define HT as 'a room'? I have read several of his replies to answers, and he says that he wanted to take Home Theaters to a new level by creating a theater type environment. This included creating a room that had many of the architectural designs and concepts found in large public theater palaces. so if you don't have the ambiance of a theater palace, do you lack the ability to call your Home Movie Viewing Cubicle a Home Theater?
Of course, he also indicates that a "rule of thumb" for building a home theater (not including electronics) will require roughly $3-400/square foot. Thus, the typical HT space from our board members (I'm guessing here...haven't gone through to compile data) is 17 x 21 = 357 sq ft. This means that for our typical theater to qualify, it should cost somewhere between $107K and $143K. That doesn't include electronics, mind you. He also says that to have a theater, just a room is not enough. You need a lobby, and an ante-lobby, a foyer and an ante-foyer. How many Home Theaters are there that fit this description? He goes on to say 'if you open just one door and find yourself in the theater, it isn't enough'. Keep in mind that he sells all of the stuff himself - I have no doubt that it is quality merchandise and that his clients are very happy...but accepting his and only his definition of the term Home Theater is akin to taking Ford Motor Company and only Ford's definition of the term "Automobile". It puts us in a place where we are potentially subject to the marketing machine.
I do have a quote where he indicates that the most important elements of a home theater are "proper application of good sound and picture" - that doesn't say anything about 'room.' It does, however, speak volumes of the experience that your eyes and ears will have.
Of course, his original theater (The Roxy) didn't have surround sound - thus the proof that ideas and definitions are constantly changing, especially as it relates to this industry.

He also didn't have it certified through HHTIA. I'll have to send him an email to see if he wants certification or not. I can't imagine he would bypass the chance to get certified... :D

-Scott
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post #698 of 702 Old 09-24-2005, 02:33 PM
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Scott,

Excellent post.

Pat
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post #699 of 702 Old 09-24-2005, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handcuff
...

I do have a quote where he indicates that the most important elements of a home theater are "proper application of good sound and picture" - that doesn't say anything about 'room.' It does, however, speak volumes of the experience that your eyes and ears will have.

...

-Scott
Hey! I said something just like that yesterday. Man, that Theo guy is smart!

I understand Redhouse's postion now: if it's not a dedicated HT (a DHT), it's not *really* a HT. So if you have the DHT, or have DHT envy, or even just DHT longing, you'll never be satisfied (or accept) less as a definition of "home theater".

But the problem is coming up with a suitable definition of what is a NON-dedicated "home theater".

If it's the room, then it's a DHT, and begs the question of "what is a (non-DHT) home theater".

If it's the gear, exactly *what* gear meets the minimum standard for qualification as an HT?

If it's both, then how much room and how much gear is necessary?

What criteria are going to be used to define what is and what is not HT?

FWIW, *my criteria* are as I have described: the **experience** of good sound and picture. Just like that smart Theo guy.

My new speakers have True Cognitive Dissonance Technology (tm).

"They'll always sound as good as you think they should!"
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post #700 of 702 Old 09-24-2005, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat6366
Scott,

Excellent post.

Pat
Hey Pat,

Thanks. I got tired of dripping sarcasm, and thought I would actually contribute (if possible).

I personally believe that the space set aside for a HT is incredibly important - I just think that it is an exclusionists tactic to say "Your HT has to be <x> or <y>" because you don't know what MY needs are for MY home theater and my viewing enjoyment. Now, if you come to my house and experience it, then tell me that, its more qualified. But putting standards such as these seems relatively arbitrary, and counter productive to everyone who is interested in the industry. The industry (and everyone involved) benefits from inclusion rather than exclusion. Vain people benefit from excluding others...it gives them a sense of pride, in their ability to compare themselves to others.
I don't know much about many of the participants from this thread, so can't say what their reasons are for their various opinions. I just know from a macro-economics point of view that the industry, participants and technologies involved are benefited by including as many people as possible. By creating an exclusionary society, you hurt yourself and run the risk of being excluded by higher standards than what you are then able to meet (thus, the point of my initial sarcasm-laden post last night).

Again, thanks for the comment.
-Scott
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post #701 of 702 Old 09-24-2005, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWScott
Hey! I said something just like that yesterday. Man, that Theo guy is smart!

FWIW, *my criteria* are as I have described: the **experience** of good sound and picture. Just like that smart Theo guy.
Man, you are funny! Consider yourself certified. ;) :D
-Scott
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post #702 of 702 Old 09-24-2005, 03:25 PM
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I think its time to shut this one down. Its served it purpose.
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