To Conduit or not to conduit.... - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 24 Old 01-10-2007, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
silver1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Should I use conduit for my surround sound speakers? Should i just drill holes in the studs?


I have New construction (finishing off basement)with 2"x3" studs. I have been looking at "Carlon" low voltage structured cable management systems, Also I have also considered PVC but I don't want to deal with all the glueing.

What does everyone else do?



Thanks in advance

Seth
silver1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 Old 01-11-2007, 10:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Chiahead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Parker Colorado
Posts: 1,618
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by silver1 View Post

Should I use conduit for my surround sound speakers? Should i just drill holes in the studs?


I have New construction (finishing off basement)with 2"x3" studs. I have been looking at "Carlon" low voltage structured cable management systems, Also I have also considered PVC but I don't want to deal with all the glueing.

What does everyone else do?



Thanks in advance

Seth

If you never want to replace, repair, or add to your lines, just drill and run.

If you ever want to upgrade your speaker wire, repair your wire, add another wire, use the conduit. It's pretty cheap to future proof that way.

Michael

PSN: Chiahead
Chiahead's Man Cave - Indexed
Loganed on 8/29/2008
Chiahead is offline  
post #3 of 24 Old 01-14-2007, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
silver1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I Bit the bullet and installed Flexible conduit. Great stuff.

If you are going to use this stuff, plan, plan, plan.
silver1 is offline  
post #4 of 24 Old 01-15-2007, 05:38 AM
Senior Member
 
misterkit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 480
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Surround sound speakers are less important for conduit. How often would you be changing speaker wire?

I think conduit is more important when dealing with components or jack panels. Anywhere you have a interface that could change I would install it. Think back years ago when people just ran RCA cables. Now everyone is running HDMI. Same thing is true with the networking wires. With conduit you just need to swap the wire out and replace it with whatever the new standard is.

If you do run conduit, I'd also recommend installing a pull string. That makes it really easy to run new lines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver1 View Post

Should I use conduit for my surround sound speakers? Should i just drill holes in the studs?


I have New construction (finishing off basement)with 2"x3" studs. I have been looking at "Carlon" low voltage structured cable management systems, Also I have also considered PVC but I don't want to deal with all the glueing.

What does everyone else do?



Thanks in advance

Seth

misterkit is offline  
post #5 of 24 Old 01-15-2007, 08:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,885
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterkit View Post

If you do run conduit, I'd also recommend installing a pull string. That makes it really easy to run new lines.

Here's a dumb question. I'm putting together a theater in a garage. You can see the details at this page.

And I was looking at conduit today at home depot -- in the electricity section. The gray plastic stuff that is perhaps 2 or 3 inches in diameter.

And I couldn't find "pull strings" anywhere. (Of course I could find lots of string, but which kind would be appropriate for pull strings, or if pull strings are terminated in a special way, was not clear.) The guys working there seemed to think I was crazy. Is it that obscure?


nathan_h is offline  
post #6 of 24 Old 01-16-2007, 10:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Chiahead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Parker Colorado
Posts: 1,618
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

Here's a dumb question. I'm putting together a theater in a garage. You can see the details at this page.

And I was looking at conduit today at home depot -- in the electricity section. The gray plastic stuff that is perhaps 2 or 3 inches in diameter.

And I couldn't find "pull strings" anywhere. The guys working there seemed to think I was crazy. Is it that obscure?

Remember your dealing with the lowest common denominator there. You can get your own string and run it through.

Here is a trick. Tie the string to a plastic bag. Shove the bag into the conduit. Use a shop vac at the other end to suck the bag and string through.

Michael

PSN: Chiahead
Chiahead's Man Cave - Indexed
Loganed on 8/29/2008
Chiahead is offline  
post #7 of 24 Old 01-16-2007, 10:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,885
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Point taken!

So if I read you right, there isn't a formal product line of "pull strings" but it's something that people hack together, right?


nathan_h is offline  
post #8 of 24 Old 01-16-2007, 11:19 AM
C&K
Newbie
 
C&K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Any string will do.
C&K is offline  
post #9 of 24 Old 01-16-2007, 11:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,885
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Cool.

Is the trick to have a string that is twice as long as the conduit, so when you use it to pull a cable through, you then can pull the string back to where it started?

I'm sure there must be a web page or primer about this, but even the cool Home Theater ebook I bought here from a fellow AVS-er only mentions the "pull strings" but doesn't go into their workings, etc.,


nathan_h is offline  
post #10 of 24 Old 01-16-2007, 12:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Chiahead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Parker Colorado
Posts: 1,618
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

Cool.

Is the trick to have a string that is twice as long as the conduit, so when you use it to pull a cable through, you then can pull the string back to where it started?

I'm sure there must be a web page or primer about this, but even the cool Home Theater ebook I bought here from a fellow AVS-er only mentions the "pull strings" but doesn't go into their workings, etc.,

Just need it a little longer than the length. When you pull a new cable through, pull another string at the same time.

You may not want a cotton string. Sometimes when you get allot of cable the string will break, so use a nylon string. Also, you may want to lube the cables up that you are going to run through the conduit (I use WD-40, don't know if that is the best or not) The plastic coating on the cables will cause allot of friction against other cables. Speaker wire, probably not a problem, just for the different video cables.

Michael

PSN: Chiahead
Chiahead's Man Cave - Indexed
Loganed on 8/29/2008
Chiahead is offline  
post #11 of 24 Old 01-16-2007, 12:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,885
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Thanks. Fishing line is too thin, right, so I something more substantial, right?


nathan_h is offline  
post #12 of 24 Old 01-16-2007, 01:12 PM
Senior Member
 
misterkit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 480
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Right,

A pull string is any type of string you leave inside a piece of conduit. I'm not sure if the plastic bag trick will work if there are other wires running in the conduit, but if you leave the string in the conduit, all you need to do it tie it to one of of the wire and pull it through... Its pretty easy. Dont forget to run a new pull string if you are using the old one to pull something through.

I like to use masonary line. Its cheap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiahead View Post

Remember your dealing with the lowest common denominator there. You can get your own string and run it through.

Here is a trick. Tie the string to a plastic bag. Shove the bag into the conduit. Use a shop vac at the other end to suck the bag and string through.

misterkit is offline  
post #13 of 24 Old 01-16-2007, 01:14 PM
Senior Member
 
misterkit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 480
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
You could using fishing line, but it would have to be higher weight. I wouldnt go smaller than 30lb or so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

Thanks. Fishing line is too thin, right, so I something more substantial, right?

misterkit is offline  
post #14 of 24 Old 01-17-2007, 02:44 PM
Advanced Member
 
chinaclipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: I live in the great Midwest!
Posts: 577
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

Here's a dumb question. I'm putting together a theater in a garage. You can see the details at this page.

And I was looking at conduit today at home depot -- in the electricity section. The gray plastic stuff that is perhaps 2 or 3 inches in diameter.

And I couldn't find "pull strings" anywhere. The guys working there seemed to think I was crazy. Is it that obscure?

Nathan:
Hope you got the idea that the conduit is the way to go. I used a conduit that was available at HD. I got four rolls of 25' of the orange stuff" and used 3 rolls. The "pull string" i used was nothing more than a 3/32" nylon cord. I bought 200 feet. I think I paid like $5 for the hank of cord.

The vacuum trick works great, if you can keep yourself from laughing your butt off when the string goes all the way through a 25' run of conduit you are a better man than I. Always include in your wire bundle another "pull string" so you can use it to pull through other wires if needed.

Here is a link to "how I did it".
Best wishes!
Tom

_______________________
Le Cinema Rockhurst
See my build progress here!!
 

chinaclipper is offline  
post #15 of 24 Old 01-17-2007, 04:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,885
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Thanks. Yes, I'm convinced. Not sure whether I'm ready to commit to speaker location, etc, but I can make reasonable guesses I think, and that may be enough.


nathan_h is offline  
post #16 of 24 Old 01-19-2007, 09:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,885
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Just learned, via a consultation today, that I probably don't need to pull the old drywall, especially since I am thinking of doing a second layer, and there is blown in insulation behind the old drywall. This makes the conduit question more complicated. (It also makes re-doing the wiring, which the consultant strongly recommended, more complicated.)

I'm beginning to like the idea of raceways, and outlets on the outside of the drywall surface, and so on -- then covered with light curtains or fabric. I could place acoustic treatment there, as well, and than might work nicely.


nathan_h is offline  
post #17 of 24 Old 01-22-2007, 09:00 AM
Senior Member
 
misterkit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 480
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Are you planning on doing any crown molding? You could always run the wires behind that.
misterkit is offline  
post #18 of 24 Old 01-22-2007, 09:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,885
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 77
I could add that to the plan, but as of right now, I wasn't planning on it.


nathan_h is offline  
post #19 of 24 Old 01-27-2007, 07:28 AM
Member
 
atcNick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Longview, TX
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Can you run any a/v cables together in the conduit? Or should I avoid mixing certain cables due to interference?

Thanks.

Nick
atcNick is offline  
post #20 of 24 Old 01-27-2007, 07:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,885
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 77
The guidelines I've been told:

Power and A/V should be separate by at least 12 inches, and when they have to cross, should cross at 90 degrees.


nathan_h is offline  
post #21 of 24 Old 01-27-2007, 08:27 AM
Member
 
atcNick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Longview, TX
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What about, for instance, speaker wire and other a/v cables? Dont speaker wires carry higher power than most other a/v cables?

Nick
atcNick is offline  
post #22 of 24 Old 01-27-2007, 09:10 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
AnthonyP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 17,632
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Power is the real culprit, with others it is not a big issue
AnthonyP is offline  
post #23 of 24 Old 01-27-2007, 05:42 PM
Senior Member
 
misterkit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 480
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
AnthonyP is right, power is the problem. I think you can run all of your AV cables together. However, if you are running a lot of cables behind crown molding you may not have enough room to get them all to fit. You might consider running speaker wires down one side of the room and your other wires on the other side.

Getting decent cables cant hurt either.
misterkit is offline  
post #24 of 24 Old 01-27-2007, 05:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jwatte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Redwood City, CA, USA
Posts: 1,234
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:


AnthonyP is right, power is the problem.

Speaker wire can also be a problem, because if you play it loud, it can run at several amps. 200 watts into 4 ohm speakers is 7 amps, if memory serves. I guess the mitigating factor is that the speaker output signal will likely be quite similar to the line-level input signal.

If you run balanced audio cables, then the risk of interference is significantly reduced. You can't really run balanced speaker wire, but with powered speakers, you can run balanced line signals all the way through. Yet another reason I like powered monitors :-)
jwatte is offline  
Reply General Home Theater & Media/Game Rooms

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off