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post #181 of 218 Old 08-17-2011, 12:03 PM
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Hi everyone first post, great site!!!

I am finishing the complete gutting and rebuilding of my basement, I will post pics if you would like to see the before and after. Anyway, I am at the final stage of doing my bartop. I have sheets of 1 x 16" oak and I would like to stain them before using the Envirotex...can you use the Envirotex on stained wood?? Also I will be installing bar rail moulding on the outer perimeter of the bar. Should I install the rails first before envirotexing the surface or install after??? (help keep the material from dripping off). Would it be in my best interest to create shoring around the perimeter to keep the material on the top while curing? Also what should I use on the rail moulding to match the gloss and protection of the bar top? I would like everything to match as best as possible.

Thanks for taking the time to read my post...I look forward to your advice!!

Jason
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post #182 of 218 Old 08-17-2011, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddrgn88 View Post

Hi everyone first post, great site!!!

You my friend have NO idea!!

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Originally Posted by Reddrgn88 View Post

can you use the Envirotex on stained wood??

Yes, just make sure you give the stain "ample" time to dry "completely"

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Originally Posted by Reddrgn88 View Post

Should I install the rails first before envirotexing the surface or install after???

Definitely install the rails first. After wont work so well.
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Originally Posted by Reddrgn88 View Post

Would it be in my best interest to create shoring around the perimeter to keep the material on the top while curing?

Please give more detail to this part of your question
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Originally Posted by Reddrgn88 View Post

Also what should I use on the rail moulding to match the gloss and protection of the bar top?

Most people (myself included) just used polyurethane. I did several coats as well.

If interested there are several GREAT bar build threads in the general media/game room forums Click Me or check out my bar build thread for a ton of pictures and such. Its the first link in my signature below. The 2nd link is my home theater build which wont help you much.


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post #183 of 218 Old 08-17-2011, 03:52 PM
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Yeah, pretty much what Iusteve said. Etex will stick to just about everything. I had the foot rail completely installed while pouring the etex. I just used the cheap mil plastic drop sheets to cover everything up including taping it underneath above where your knees would be. If you check out HeyNow's build, he built a duct tape dam around his top to prevent runoff...ain't duct tape a wonderful thing!

I etex'd the bar rail and it turned out OK. I let it rundown the front onto the plastic sheets and ground the hanging etex icicle balls flush a few days later. I have few spots with runs on the curves, but it's not very noticeable except by me. Etex is really designed to be self leveling and for flat surfaces so it presents real challenges on curved surfaces.
Good luck and post some pics.
Rich


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post #184 of 218 Old 08-17-2011, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Same answer.

I installed the bar rail and molding on the backside of the top with a lip extending 1/8-1/4" up above the surface. Worked great.

I covered rail and the rest of the trim/bar with Helmsman Exterior High-Gloss and it matched perfectly.

Definitely use protection!


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post #185 of 218 Old 11-07-2011, 06:39 AM
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I am coating my bar top with Envirotex this week and after reading through the comments I have some questions I was hoping someone could help me with.

I plan on staining the bar top first before I pour the envirotex on it. I prefer to use a minwax oil based stain but will the envirotex coat to it? I read I should use a water based stain instead as epoxy has a hard time coating to minwax oil based stain. I tried out a water based stain on a sample piece of wood and I just don't like the look as much as the oil based.

I planed a trough into the edge of my countertop and on the other edge is a chicago bar stock rail. How do I pour the envirotex with the trough, won't all the epoxy just settle into it? I was thinking of placing some wood in the trough and as the epoxy starts to harden I would remove it, but not sure how that would work. The chicago barstock also has elbow rest grooves so I figured I couldn't epoxy it sincer the surface isn't level. I probably will use polyurethane or polycrylic on that.

Can anyone offer some suggestions on what I might be able to do?

Thanks
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post #186 of 218 Old 11-08-2011, 12:20 PM
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Reddrgn88 & G-Man 42, you have certainly come to the right place. I spent many many hours on here so scared that i would mess up the E-Tex pour. It turned out to be the best decision of my entire build!!

Couple things:

I Masked the underside of the bar to protect it and the floor with some thin plastic sheeting:


I actually poured the back bar first to practice, gave me confidence to do the main part, hence why the back bar is covered in the pic above.

G-Man 42, i assume by trough you mean bar rail? If so, i have one also, and you'll be surprised how the E-Tex acts when it meets an edge, it doesn't like to flow freely over the edge as much as you would think. I just poured the top, floated it around, and poured some more E-Tex in the rail and flowed it around:


I poured the rail with E-tex, a piece of advice, pour the rail last, this way the E-Tex is actually thicker and less prone to run as much. It didn't come out perfect, but I agree with Javatime, i am the only one that notices it. +1 on the icicles too:


I also 'tented' the entire bar after the pour, as i was freaked out about dust settling:


You can see the build album here if interested: https://picasaweb.google.com/1112989...27/BarProgress, i 'finished' last year, and love every minute of it. There are a TON of incredibly helpful people here, definitely start a build thread of your own, post lots of pictures, and you'll get more comments and help than you ever imagined possible.

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post #187 of 218 Old 11-09-2011, 06:03 AM
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mtbvert,

Thanks for your help. This is a great site and your bar looks beautiful.

What kind of stain did you use? I haven't posted enough to attach links yet, but the site I was looking at has me scared. The site is on westsystem.com and they have an actual test with epoxy and different types of stain. Minwax oil based failed all of them.

My bar rail is similar to yours except that it is not open in the back. It's actually grooved into the bar and has about an inch edge on the back side that is the same height as the bar top. I'd attach a picture if I knew how to. I'm glad to hear the epoxy isn't as runny as I was thinking, because I have been kicking myself for even making a bar rail.

Thanks again for the pictures and advice. They are very helpful.
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post #188 of 218 Old 11-09-2011, 06:17 AM
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I forgot to ask you how long did you wait after staining before you placed the epoxy? Then when you poured the epoxy how long did you wait until you uncovered it?

Thanks again
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post #189 of 218 Old 11-09-2011, 06:18 AM
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I guess I have posted enough now. Here's the link that has me concerned. http://www.westsystem.com/ss/epoxy-a...n-over-stains/
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post #190 of 218 Old 11-09-2011, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Man 42 View Post

I guess I have posted enough now. Here's the link that has me concerned. http://www.westsystem.com/ss/epoxy-a...n-over-stains/

I used Minwax Oil-Based stain and EnviroTex Lite to pour. http://eti-usa.com/envirotex-lite/

I don't have any experience with the West Systems Epoxy, but the E-Tex had no problem on top of the oil based Minwax. In general, everyone on the forums seems to favor E-Tex over everything else.

It was at least 4 days between stain and E-Tex pour. As i said, i was very nervous too, with the amount of $ i had in the solid red oak bar top and bar rail, the last thing i wanted to do was ruin it with a bad pour. That is why i poured the back bar first, to make sure i did it right!!

I left it "tented" for a full 24 hours after i did the pour. I also stayed out of the bar are completely during that cure time to prevent and chance of dust.

Do you have an scrap pieces of bar rail and top that you could mock up and practice on?

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post #191 of 218 Old 11-09-2011, 10:50 AM
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I completely forgot that i did a seal coat first with the E-Tex, it is recommended with oak to fill in the pores of the wood, it cuts down on bubbles during the cure. I just went back and re-read my build thread, i forgot a lot of the things i did!!

I used 1/4 of the recommended amount for my bar top and applied it with a brush for the seal coat. After that dried, i did the flood coat using the recommended amount to get the final thick layer on top.

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post #192 of 218 Old 11-09-2011, 12:31 PM
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My bar top is maple and I have the E-Tex Lite already purchased. I guess I probably should still do a seal coat. I do have some extra pieces of the bar top to practice on and I will definately do that.

I'm just glad to hear about the minwax oil based stain and about the bar rail. Those were my two biggest concerns. Now my biggest concern is the bar rail is 2 1/2" and not 3 1/2". I had a local woodshop do this for me. Now I gotta figure out if I can cut an extra inch with any of the tools I have.

Thanks again
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post #193 of 218 Old 11-10-2011, 07:49 AM
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2.5" vs 3.5", what do you mean??

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post #194 of 218 Old 11-10-2011, 01:40 PM
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The width of the bar rail. My router isn't strong enough to cut the extra inch so I'm going to have to take it to a wood shop and have them use a commercial router or jig saw to get it done.
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post #195 of 218 Old 11-10-2011, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by G-Man 42 View Post

The width of the bar rail. My router isn't strong enough to cut the extra inch so I'm going to have to take it to a wood shop and have them use a commercial router or jig saw to get it done.

OK, gotcha.

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post #196 of 218 Old 12-26-2011, 06:02 PM
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Hey all . . I'm loooking to do a e-tex bar top over some ticket stubs and other paper items. Ideally I would not like to completely encase these things so if I ever move or something happens, I could remove them (with some effort). I was thinking about some sort of clear layer between the items and e-tex. Any suggestions? Or would I just be better off with an acrylic top? Thanks!
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post #197 of 218 Old 12-27-2011, 06:45 AM
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All I will say (with an etex bar myself)is that Etex is VERY permanent. The items under/in the etex are not salvageable. If you are wanting to "remove" the items at some point I would look into another material to use on top of your bar.


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post #198 of 218 Old 12-27-2011, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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The photos I posted at the start of this thread are gone for some reason. Guess it's too old or they've changed the way they can be posted. Was able to attach some of them. First one is before the Epoxy and the last two are afterwards.

The wood floor planks were pre-finished and the bar rail was finished with an exterior grade gloss polyurethane.
LL
LL
LL


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post #199 of 218 Old 12-27-2011, 07:40 PM
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As Iusteve mentioned, those babies will be a permanent part of your bar top and for the next owner if you move and leave the bar. I would use a plexiglass top.


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post #200 of 218 Old 08-01-2012, 03:51 PM
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Hi guys,

Pictures look great and this thread is very informative. A couple of questions I saw posted yet don't have answers:

I did an initial skim coat to seal my wood bar top, and then I did my flood pour. Turns out my dust free area wasnt so dust free. I have small hairs, a few bubbles and wavy areas.

Will a second pour fix these issues? Or do I literally have to try and sand them / chisel them out? I did my pour about 24 hrs ago.

It looks great but when the blinds are open, the natural light makes it look terrible.

So basically if you do a second pour, will it look noticeable, or will it easily fill in the imperfections?

Also if you do a second pour directly over existing bubbles, will they still be noticeable?

Most of my imperfections are only noticeable at angles, not looking directly down on it.

Thanks in advance guys!!!

Oh one more thing: Best way to remove hardened etex from a laminate / vinyl counter top?
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post #201 of 218 Old 08-01-2012, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Mine has two pours. I use to have pics at the beginning that showed the imperfections and bubbles from the first pour. I sanded the bubbles so that new epoxy could flow into them. After the second pour, you couldn't tell they had ever been there. The second pour fixed all of the issues I had. Don't know about your hair problem.


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post #202 of 218 Old 08-03-2012, 08:31 AM
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Thanks Neuner. I'll eventually try another pour, dam stuff is expensive though. $40 for 16oz kit up here in Canada.

Anyone else done a second pour over imperfections? I figure if the second pour is think enough, it should cover up my hair problem because the hair just loosk like bubbles...
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post #203 of 218 Old 02-08-2013, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuner View Post

Mine has two pours. I use to have pics at the beginning that showed the imperfections and bubbles from the first pour. I sanded the bubbles so that new epoxy could flow into them. After the second pour, you couldn't tell they had ever been there. The second pour fixed all of the issues I had. Don't know about your hair problem.

First time posting, and can't tell you how much help your posts (and those of others) have helped me thus far. I am starting my build on a "L" shaped bar with kegerator tomorrow. I bought the plans from Barplan.com and think I am ready to begin. I'm not new to wood projects, but am FAR from any kind of pro. I figure several weeks of research and planning will make up for my lack of experience. (At least I hope so). I know this is a VERY old thread, but the information in it is invaluable, and I am hoping people are still watching it and will respond.

Anyway, to my questions:
I have selected a 3/4" prefinished hand scraped hardwood (Cocobolo). It's tongue-n-groove so I am hoping it will snap together fairly well and minimize the gaps between the boards. As you can probably guess by the user name I come from a very long line of Irish drunks smile.gif and I am trying to achieve a very antiqued look to the bar top. I am concerned though about the handscraped surface of the wood and it's interaction with the ETex. From what I've read it looks like the ETex is thick enough to level out over the texture variations in the handscraped wood. Is this correct? Also, will I lose that distressed look that the handscraped wood offers? I am worried I might defeat the purpose of distressed wood by covering it with a 1/4" layer of ETex.

Secondly, would you recommend using mastic to "glue" the hardwood floor boards to the plywood under surface, or nails, or both? I read that you had an issue with the edges "curling". I was hoping to avoid that.

Lastly, I am going to tack trim pieces to the back of the bar top where the drink trough will be to allow the ETex to pool. Once it's hardened, can I just remove the trim piece and have a acryllic edge standing above the bar top? I was thinking I would then sand the edge slightly to make the edge of the ETex smooth. Will this work? So it looks like a piece of glass on top of the wood. Will the ETex shift if it isn't surrounded by a barrier after it dries?

Thanks for all the info thus far and any advice you can offer. I truly appreciate it.

Jack
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post #204 of 218 Old 02-13-2013, 10:10 AM
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I'll answer what i can , this thread doesn't see much action anymore so i hope i don't steer you wrong .
I'm just wondering if it might be possible to try a test piece before starting , see how the Etex looks on the wood and how it might look and react with no backing in place . Personally i think if you can somehow leave trim in place permanently you might be better off .
The Etex will cover and self level over any irregularities ( make sure you buld your framework as level as possible) and i would think that both nails and glue might be your best bet for securing your top ,
As i have said a test piece might be the way to go , the Etex will certainly darken the wood somewhat but to what extent who knows .

Good luck with your project , it sure is satisfying when you're all done & compliments from others don't hurt either tongue.gif
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post #205 of 218 Old 02-25-2013, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malbols View Post

I'll answer what i can , this thread doesn't see much action anymore so i hope i don't steer you wrong .
I'm just wondering if it might be possible to try a test piece before starting , see how the Etex looks on the wood and how it might look and react with no backing in place . Personally i think if you can somehow leave trim in place permanently you might be better off .
The Etex will cover and self level over any irregularities ( make sure you buld your framework as level as possible) and i would think that both nails and glue might be your best bet for securing your top ,
As i have said a test piece might be the way to go , the Etex will certainly darken the wood somewhat but to what extent who knows .

Good luck with your project , it sure is satisfying when you're all done & compliments from others don't hurt either tongue.gif

Thanks!! I think I am just going to leave the trim in place. It's a small piece and I would hate to have the ETex start chipping with use after a few years.

As for the test piece, that's a great idea. I'm going to build a test box around two pieces of flooring. That way I can test the result both over the flooring itself, and the joints between the two. I'm going to order some samples and use them specifically for this purpose. The samples are like $10 and the small bottle of ETex will be more than sufficient.

Thanks again for the idea.I think It will work out wonderfully.
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post #206 of 218 Old 02-25-2013, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malbols View Post

I'll answer what i can , this thread doesn't see much action anymore so i hope i don't steer you wrong .
I'm just wondering if it might be possible to try a test piece before starting , see how the Etex looks on the wood and how it might look and react with no backing in place . Personally i think if you can somehow leave trim in place permanently you might be better off .
The Etex will cover and self level over any irregularities ( make sure you buld your framework as level as possible) and i would think that both nails and glue might be your best bet for securing your top ,
As i have said a test piece might be the way to go , the Etex will certainly darken the wood somewhat but to what extent who knows .

Good luck with your project , it sure is satisfying when you're all done & compliments from others don't hurt either tongue.gif

Thanks for the idea! I've decided to leave the trim in place. Don't want to have it chip after a couple of years.

I am ordering some samples from Lumber Liquidators. I'll try the ETex a couple of them so I can see how it's looks both over the rough texture and how it looks over the joints.

Thanks for the great idea!!
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post #207 of 218 Old 09-23-2013, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Popped back on here and glad to see it still offering help. Would be great if any of you posted your before and after pics. I know myself and probably others would like seeing different projects and there outcome.

Neuner


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post #208 of 218 Old 09-29-2013, 05:20 PM
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I haven't had time to do a writeup on my overall bar build experience, but will in the near future... For the Etex lite route, all I can say is WOW!, did an initial skim coat, then about 36hrs later the flood coat was poured and it really came out great (only two bubbles needed to be popped right before the flood coat, no sanding involved, and those disappeared, its like your looking into a pool of water). It does have the consistency just like honey.

This was for an L shaped 8'x4' bar with 30" of total bar top space. Two gallons of Etex covers the drip rail, bar top, and was brushed over the Chicago bar rail (+1 for icicles as well, pretty easily trimmed off after the fact).

Used a torch on low to get the bubbles out of both coats, lots and lots of bubbles on the first coat that kept coming out for at least 2 hours (btw the cO2 in the torch pops the bubbles, not the heat, keep the flame moving....), 2nd coat had some bubbles, but not a ton (bar top was initially stained with MinWax Ebony 2718 to start with btw, dry time about 24-30 hours before Etex 1st coat).



Im not as happy with the finished product of my bar rails (rails themselves were excellent, Etex worked great over it, and it was just an oversight, not the end of the world rails themselves were not sanded enough, so there is some "texture" in the rail through the etex, again not the end of the world) - Most will not notice this, and I honestly LOVE my bar......


During each coat, even though the directions stated there was only about a 15-20 minute window to spread the stuff around, it actually was a good 35 min that "adjustments" were able to be made with no worries.

Very self leveling, only slight thing I noticed now that its fully cured is a slight bit of orange peel in some areas (hard for most to see except me), as well as very little divits that with the right light I can see, which is the space between the pennies on the bar only.... very hard to see those.

ETex was approx. 2 years old that I used, had been sitting on a shelf from the original bar that was supposed to be rebuilt back then but ran into contractor then other issues....

The Etex from my perspective worth every penny and highly recommended

RVelle
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post #209 of 218 Old 12-05-2013, 08:55 AM
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I am an amateur but have built s few bars and some furniture and would recommend that everyone invest in some bar and pipe clamps. The pictures I have seen are representative of true amateur wood workers who don't know that there are tools and techniques that would make the desired result much less difficult to obtain. Also, a jointer would be useful. My recommendation to all of you non-professionals who want a well built professional looking piece of furniture when you are done is to glue and clamp your finish wood to a good piece of 7 ply AB plywood. Shape the edges to what you want, belt sand, orbital finish sand, stain, and varnish. If you use good materials and techniques, your product will be beautiful and last lifetimes.

 

The use of Etex or other plastic coatings is a mistake. Layers of good Helmsman or other urethane based varnishes will give you the same look while providing a much more robust and maintainable finish. The final touch to this kind of finish is generally a 600 grit sanding followed by a coating of a good wax. You will be delighted at the way you can see into your beautiful wood grain when you are done.

 

Another great feature of a varnish finish; If you have a blemish in the future and you need to repair it, just sand, stain, varnish, sand and wax. Good as new. 

 

Some of my bars are going on 40 years old and look like they were just built. 

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post #210 of 218 Old 12-05-2013, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodDave View Post

I am an amateur ... you non-professionals...

The use of Etex or other plastic coatings is a mistake. Layers of good Helmsman or other urethane based varnishes will give you the same look.




Your first post on a very old thread, and a self-proclaimed amateur, starts off with criticism? Life of most parties aren't you!

So how many coats of Helmsman do you recommend to coat pennies or other objects so that the final finish is mirror flat and smooth? Guess you didn't read the whole thread about where Helmsman was used on the the majority of the rest of the bars with exception to the top rolleyes.gif Have fun telling the majority of the professional commercial bar builders in America that they shouldn't use Epoxy tops on their bar tops because of the durability and finish.


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