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post #1 of 1592 Old 02-16-2008, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Edited 4.22.09

Before

Looking Toward the Front Wall





After









Audio
Triad Inwall Gold/6 LCR
Triad Inwall Gold/4 Surrounds (sides)
Triad Inwall Silver/4 Surrounds (rears)
Triad Inroom Gold Powersub w/RackAmp500 (2x)
Triad OmniRound6 (playroom ceiling speakers-2x)

Video
JVC DLA-RS20
Panamorph A480KIT
Chief RPA-233 Ceiling Mount
SmX AT Proline 130" wide 2.35:1
Samsung 46" A650 (playroom)
Monoprice tilt/swivel mount/3724 (playroom)

Electronics
Marantz AV8003
B&K Ref200.7S2
Oppo BDP-83 Blu-Ray Player (upgrade from Panny BD55 on 8.23.09)
Marantz IS 201 IPOD Dock (added on 8.23.09)
Insignia NS-R2000 200w 2ch (for playroom speakers)

Accessories
8 Berkline 078s-grade 4 leather
Middle Atlantic Slim 5 Rack BXBTB5
URC MX-980
URC MX-350 (playroom)
URC Base Station MRF-350
Panamax M5300PM Power Conditioner
Lutron dimmers controlled via URC
Monoprice HDMI splitter/3049
Monoprice HDMI cables
__________________





Ok guys, here are the details:

-14x20 dedicated room (though can extend to 14 x 30) in basement (yet to be finished) mainly for movies
-steel column right smack in the middle at 16', 2 other columns right around 20' that can be hidden in the back wall or keep them and extend room to 30
-seating will be 8 Berklines, front row IOIOOIOI, second row on a riser with IOIOI pole IOIOI

Dealer Equipment Suggestions (though not purchased yet)
Sharp XV-Z20000
Stewart 100" fixed
Marantz SR 8002
Pioneer Elite BDP-95HD
B&W 804S-fronts
B&W HTM3S-center
B&W CWM800-4 in walls
C&W ASW825-sub
Monster HTS 5100

My questions are:

1) Many have suggested going up to 110". I'm not sure whether the Sharp will allow that since I have to hang right in front of the column. I think throw distance is at least 13.5'.
2) Others have suggested JVC RS2 instead of the Sharp. Very different technologies. I have read the reviews, some that compare even, but any comments appreciated.
3) Better acoustically to have 14x20 or 14x30?
4) Dealer suggested Control 4 remote but I really can't see paying just under a grand for a remote. Seems like a complete waste of $. Thoughts?

Any comments or even general thoughts appreciated. I will post pictures of the development once we actually choose a GC!
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post #2 of 1592 Old 02-16-2008, 05:57 PM
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Well, the product page for your projector is here:

http://www.sharpusa.com/products/ModelLanding/0,1058,1771,00.html

It looks like they recommend a throw distance between 13' 5" - 18' 2" for a 100 inch screen so you would be in a good sweet spot if you kept the room at 14x20. I suspect you might have to ceiling mount the projector right in front of the pole at 16', but you'd want to work that out with the GC or whoever is helping you design the space. One of the best things you can do is go find a local A/V or big box store that has a 120inch screen somewhere (or a friend that might have one) so you can see if the size difference is important to you.

Here's a room size calculator that might help you as well with the size and dimensions you want...

http://www.cinemasource.com/articles...des/modes.html
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post #3 of 1592 Old 02-17-2008, 05:23 AM
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Just a heads up not to get taken by expensive cable snake oil salesman.

You should be able buy ALL the speaker wiring and interconnect cabling for $300 or so. Get familiar with monoprice cable prices.

Also If you are paying MSRP for Projector, Screen, and Electronics you are leaving a lot of your money on the table.
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post #4 of 1592 Old 02-17-2008, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I do realize that we are definitely paying a premium by choosing to go to a dealer. While we're not paying MSRP, I can still certainly get much better pricing via online vendors. However, I need someone to do all the installing, wiring, calibrating, etc so I just chalk up the extra cost to having to go that route.

Our wiring estimate was 1,800 - 2,300 so according to your estimate we're getting taken to the bank.
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post #5 of 1592 Old 02-17-2008, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queendvd2 View Post

Our wiring estimate was 1,800 - 2,300 so according to your estimate we're getting taken to the bank.

It is hard to know what they have included and everyone needs to send their kids to college, you are just helping.

If this is new construction and just the one room, HT wiring (excluding electrical) is 1/2 day job before the walls are closed in plus cost of materials and another day when all the equipment is installed and everything is hooked up.

Make sure they are putting in a big conduit from the equipment stack to the projector location to facilitate any future change out of cables.

You should realize that this forum is most often frequented by the DIY enthusiast who do their own wiring and a lot of the construction themselves. If this is a "checkbook only" project you will pay a premium but have more time for other things or for earning the money to pay for the project.
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post #6 of 1592 Old 02-17-2008, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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That's just for the hardware. Labor is 100/hour...sigh. Unfortunately, the DIY route is not an option as I lack the knowledge/time and my husband is not the handy type either. But a home theater is what I have wanted for years. Now that I've committed by buying theater chairs there's no turning back

By the way BIG, awesome theater. I checked out your thread and already got some ideas from your pics. It seems like everyone just creates their own HT threads. Is there one sole thread that just has pictures of everyone's final product?
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post #7 of 1592 Old 02-17-2008, 12:02 PM
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Well I see you got in on the power buy so that is one good buying decision.

here is a good thread to get pointed in the right direction it's the master "show me your" thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=978755

Also have you thought at all about soundproofing and acoustical treatments so that the coin you are going to be spending on sound will sound great and SAY IN THE ROOM?
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post #8 of 1592 Old 02-17-2008, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Well I see you got in on the power buy so that is one good buying decision.

here is a good thread to get pointed in the right direction it's the master "show me your" thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=978755

Also have you thought at all about soundproofing and acoustical treatments so that the coin you are going to be spending on sound will sound great and SAY IN THE ROOM?

Yes, actually I did momentarily think about special soundproofing treatments and just figured it would really jack up the costs of the room. Already, the equipment/install cost is way over what I had estimated. But I will take a peek at some threads to educate myself some more. As everyone is well aware, it's tough to draw the line in the sand of when to stop because obviously this can get pretty crazy.

What height did you use for your riser?
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post #9 of 1592 Old 02-17-2008, 02:17 PM
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Mine happens to be 7 inches but it should be a tad higher.

To calculate the riser height you can use the formulas in this thread. Where you plan on hanging the screen and the size of the screen makes a difference.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=505237
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post #10 of 1592 Old 02-17-2008, 02:26 PM
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As for screen size I have 100 and it's one of the first things I'm going to change. When viewing DVD movies in the 2:35 format the image is too small.

It might be worth your while to take the time to read the "what I would do different thread" to learn from all our mistakes:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=855958
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post #11 of 1592 Old 02-17-2008, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I think if the projector can facilitate, I will go with the 110".

I did read several pages of the what I would do differently. I plan to read more when I have more time on my hands. Definitely have learned a lot already by reading through some.

By the way, just showed my mom your theater and she was like WOW! Now that's a great kitchen/theater!

Do you think I'd be better off with 14x20 (recall I have a steel column right smack in the middle at 16') or with a 14x30 (but will have 2 additional columns left and right after the second row that would have been hidden in the 14x20) and throw in something else like a small bar-lilke area. Acoustically, does it make a big difference?
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post #12 of 1592 Old 02-17-2008, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queendvd2 View Post

Do you think I'd be better off with 14x20 (recall I have a steel column right smack in the middle at 16') or with a 14x30 (but will have 2 additional columns left and right after the second row that would have been hidden in the 14x20) and throw in something else like a small bar-lilke area. Acoustically, does it make a big difference?

Thanks for the kind words. I need to point out that my 7 main speakers in the 7.3 system cost less than one of your B&W 804S's. I'm just jealous.

I would like to see a floor plan of the whole basement before I would comment on whether it makes sense to add more space at the back. You also have to ask yourself how often will you use that extra seating and what do you give up to get the space. Having poles in the middle of a room is a real negative and might take points away from a future valuation.

As for acoustics that is beyond my capability to comment.
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post #13 of 1592 Old 02-17-2008, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, let's see how this goes. Here are a few pictures of my basement. Sorry about the resolution and awful composition. I had to keep cropping the original images in order to meet upload specs. The red steel pole is the pole at 16'. The cut-out straight ahead is where the fixed screen will be placed. The second photo shows the view looking at the HT from the side. The second furthest red pole is the one that will be right smack in the middle of my theater. The wooden poles on the left (near the burner/heater) are right at the 20' where I can either make a back wall or extend to 30'.

The next two images are my crude attempt at a floor layout (cut in two pieces to again meet upload spec requirements). The square boxes are my chairs. The 'S' means steel pole and 'W' means wood pole.

The remainder of my basement will just be an open (albeit pole-challenged) play area for my kids and a full bath.
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #14 of 1592 Old 02-17-2008, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I also neglected to mention that after I re-sketched my floorplan it dawned on me that extending out to 30' may not even be an option because my second row of Berklines run 145'' (out of 168'') so that only leaves me with 23" not including the steel pole.
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post #15 of 1592 Old 02-17-2008, 08:02 PM
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hmm lot's of issues.

First just a FYI, you can create a free photobucket account, upload images as is (no downsizing) , copy the [img] ......{/img] link into the body of your post and like magic the photo will pop in.

Looking at what I can see in your photos and sketch it's not clear about how you are providing access to all the mechanical equipment.

Those two wood posts seem inconsistent with the metal beam and lolly columns. I wonder if they were added as an afterthought to cut down on the floor bounce above. If the answer is yes you might be able to move them back or even eliminate with some other measures. How old is this house? What part of the Country?

If you have the time to make a sketch of the entire basement showing how the room fits into the total space that would help us all provide you some feed back.
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post #16 of 1592 Old 02-17-2008, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a full sketch but again the space limitations crippled me. Have to look into that photobucket. I will scan at work as a pdf so that way you will be able to see in one piece.

Yes, you are correct. Those lolly columns were indeed put in after the fact due to floor bounce. Even though the original owners put them in I'm very reticent to remove them because the floor span is quite long. In some places we can probably rearrange some but those in the HT space likely will stay. I'd rather not have the bounce on the main floor.

I wasn't sure where to place all the AV equipment-whether to create an in-wall (back) shelf space or just store somewhere in a closet. I have to keep around 18" open-air on the side for my burner/heater/oil tank/electrical box so I have some space there too.
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post #17 of 1592 Old 02-18-2008, 05:19 AM
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Some more thoughts and questions.

For me the most logical place to put your equipment would be either a bump out rack or closet along the heater wall, near the first row. But it's not clear how you are providing access to the equipment (Boiler, Hot water, Tank) . Building codes generally require so many inches of space in front and to the side of the equipment for maintenance purposes and a pathway large enough to remove and replace the largest piece of equipment. I'm not sure if the oil tank requires a pathway.

The back would work but is more inconvenient.

Now some questions. How are you planning on cooling and heating this room. Looks like you have hot water heating. Don't see any AC. It's not uncommon for a theater room to need cooling when it is full of people and the projector is throwing off heat while the rest of the house needs heating.

You will also need some ventilation for your equipment if it is in a closet.

Will look for your floor plan later today.
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post #18 of 1592 Old 02-18-2008, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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We will have a closet by the electrical panel (facing theater screen-door will be on the left side). Access to the burner/heater/oil tank will be via a double door in the back. Don't worry, we're leaving plenty of clearance (don't remember exact specs but enough to get oil tank out if necessary) to access and get at appliances.

We have both hot water heater (will create another zone for the basement) and central air. To be honest, I did not think I would need to create an a/c zone for the basement. Is that a big mistake? Does the projector actually give off that much heat?

Ok, hopefully the pdf attachments give a much better picture than my earlier cropped up jpgs. Again, the floorplan is my crude mock-up. Nothing is really to scale. The total basement space runs approximately 1,500 sq. ft, with the theater taking up about one-third of the total space. Thanks.

 

Floor Plan.pdf 30.23828125k . file

 

Basement Pic (Side view).pdf 68.87109375k . file

 

Basement Pic (Potential Screen View).pdf 21.501953125k . file

 

Basement Pic (Facing Stairwell).pdf 65.484375k . file

 

Basement Pic (Facing Stairwell # 2).pdf 74.3369140625k . file
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post #19 of 1592 Old 02-18-2008, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm not so sure the bump out on the side (where the appliances are) would work because I would be worried about clearance for my oil tank. Possibly we could have it right near our electrical panel (which we will have a closet door) which is to the left of the screen. Maybe a movable rack hidden inside the passage way by the circuit board? Do you think that would work?
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post #20 of 1592 Old 02-18-2008, 09:24 AM
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Near the breaker panel could work.


How big a theater could you fit in if the screen wall was where the oil tank is. I'm sure you thought about different scenarios, I'm just double checking all your options for avoiding a metal support pole in the theater.

Also in the last picture, just so you know, there are other options available to stiffen that floor and you could remove those 3 wood columns if you wanted to put the theater there.

If you want, and you have a chance measure the size (height) of those floor joists, are they 12's (11.5) or what, measure the span without that after thought of that mid span support, and measure the spacing between joist. I will look up the engineering recommendations in a reference table to see what you are dealing with.
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post #21 of 1592 Old 02-18-2008, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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For the oil tank option, unfortunately, we don't have enough length. We would only get 14', which would not be enough to accommodate two rows of seating.

The actual sizing of the lolly columns are just two 1 1/2 by 3 1/2 (prob they're just called 2x4s I'd guess). We have an 8' basement. I'm sure I didn't measure exactly what you needed but there are two layers of 1.5" thick plywood. The bottom layer has two pieces that are 7"w x 176". The top layer has around 7"w x 133". The few GCs that we had come in did comment that it was a pretty long span. Sorry, but I probably did not give you what you needed to calculate accordingly.

Some other GCs recommended removing and then walking upstairs to see whether we felt any bounce. I get worried about removing anything though. I know, structurally they're not necessary since it's obvious the previous owners put in after the fact.
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post #22 of 1592 Old 02-18-2008, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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At what height off the floor did you place your screen? Thanks for that link for the riser calculation. I especially like the script that trunks made. Very cool.
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post #23 of 1592 Old 02-18-2008, 11:34 AM
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MY screen bottom is 38 inches off the floor.


OK, back to the original space and the question of 20ft or 30ft. I can't see extending the room to 30 for the 3 reasons that have surfaced.

1) it will present problems in providing clearance/access for the hot water/boiler.

2) as you mentioned with the size of room and seating purchased you won't have a decent aisle to the back.

3) not wanting to move those wood supports results in a real eyesore. Keep in mind that the contractor will probably replace them anyway with the wall and it will end up being stronger than it currently is.

Having said that I will have a napkin sketch of a 20 ft room later today that includes my thoughts on this space.

One last question how far in front of the cement wall with the oil tank were you planning on building your wall for the side wall of the theater?

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post #24 of 1592 Old 02-18-2008, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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One last question how far in front of the cement wall with the oil tank were you planning on building your wall for the side wall of the theater?

Just shy of 5 feet. That's where that wood column stands and will be hidden in the wall. I feel like that should be plenty of clearance to walk around back there and access the various appliances and electric panel.

Big, thanks again for all the advice-very much appreciated.
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post #25 of 1592 Old 02-18-2008, 02:07 PM
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Just studying your plans some more to see what I can offer in the way of recommendations and I was looking up all those speakers to see if they needed to be raised with a modest stage.

You are going with some pricey in-walls rather than the B&W surround speakers, The later would create more of a surround sound field. Any reason? The surrounds are actually cheaper.

That Sub is pretty pricey (not that the rest of the stuff isn't) and it's just one. I suspect that you are going to do very little in the acoustical tuning of this room and therefore with one sub you will have some pretty substantial standing waves with substantial nodes. It will be loud in some places in the room and quiet in others. One partial strategy is to use two subs one in front and one along the side. With what you have budgeted for the one sub you could get a couple of the top of the line HSU subs and have enough left over to do some DIY acoustical treatments for the room (yes you can do it)
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post #26 of 1592 Old 02-18-2008, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I thought given the tight space the in-walls would not only look better but also not risk being knocked down. I'm not sure I understand how we wouldn't have a surround sound effect. We would have four in-walls, one on each side and two on the back wall. Dealer's charging $450/piece. Which surrounds were you looking at? We looked at some other on-wall surrounds and they were actually more expensive than the in-walls.

Yes, I thought the sub was very pricey as well. Based on what I've been reading here, I'm going to do some additional research into Velodyne and SVS. I had even asked the dealer about Velodyne and he remarked that based on the price range, it wouldn't make much of a difference to go Velodyne. I will be surveying a few other dealers just to see what kind of pricing is offered for the whole package. We used this original dealer for our first speaker (Paradigms) purchase five years ago and I was pretty happy with them. But it does kill me that we will be paying such a premium for the actual goods. Problem is you can't buy stuff elsewhere and then ask them to install.

I'll do some more checking on those acoustical treatments. Did you do any in yours?
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post #27 of 1592 Old 02-18-2008, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queendvd2 View Post

Problem is you can't buy stuff elsewhere and then ask them to install.

I'll do some more checking on those acoustical treatments. Did you do any in yours?

I'll tackle these two ?s first.

The labor to install a sub-woofer is like 15 minutes. If you bought the sub(s) somewhere else I would doubt they are going to charge you any extra given the coin you are dropping on everything else.

Yes, I covered a good portion of my walls with 1 inch linacoustic and then GOM fabric. Behind my screen wall the front wall is 100% treated with Linacoustic.
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post #28 of 1592 Old 02-18-2008, 03:58 PM
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post #29 of 1592 Old 02-18-2008, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I'll definitely print out everything and read up on the above topics. Yes, I was already pondering whether I could get away with buying the screen elsewhere. Roman quoted me 200 less and 10" bigger. I figure they can't hassle me too much with that since it's a non-electronic piece. By the way, is it very involved to hang a fixed screen or can the GC do it relatively easily? So far, plan is to go Stewart Studio Tek 110".

Thanks again Big, I look forward to the sketch.
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post #30 of 1592 Old 02-18-2008, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by queendvd2 View Post

By the way, is it very involved to hang a fixed screen or can the GC do it relatively easily?

I got my Stewart from Richard at AVS (the sponsor of this forum)

putting up the screen involves putting 4 screws part way into 2 studs then slipping the assembled screen onto the 4 exposed screw heads.

Knowing where to put the screws to get the screen in exactly the right location, level and centered square to the projector is an art. I wouldn't trust it to just anyone who is on the clock.

If you have the screen up you could put the pressure on your equipment dealer to get the projector hung perfectly centered to the screen. It's a chicken or egg kind of thing.

Also before I forget, have the GC put extra blocking between the joists in the ceiling for the projector bracket before the drywall goes up.
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