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post #1351 of 1368 Old 12-28-2012, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Zenjabil View Post

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Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

Be aware that both versions present the movie at 1080i/50Hz.

Is this really the case? I realize that the intro (menu?) and trailers, etc. are likely encoded at 1080i/50Hz, but would think that the movie itself (French pressing of Tell No One) would be 1080p24.

And, yes, I realize that not being able to view the menu and thus access the main feature (which would presumably be readable by a most/all US players) might render the distinction irrelevant,
Looking into the issue further, the first French release has the movie in 1080P and will play anywhere, as it is region-free. The newer French release is supposedly presented in 1080i/50Hz. European distributors really don't care and will release films in 1080i/50Hz format, as their intended customers can all play it. Someone maintains a list on here featuring European BDs of that nature. Here's an older comparison of Blu-rays:

http://www.dvdcompare.net/comparisons/film.php?fid=14580
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post #1352 of 1368 Old 12-31-2012, 10:28 PM
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Guess I'm a little confused. Everything I've read to date tells me HD-DVD and BD HD programming is independent of 50/60 Hz. As long as it's region accessible, it will play properly. Regarding additional BD content, as long as it's NTSC, it will also play properly.

I just sampled the extra content (and films) of several of my overseas purchased BD.

1) French release of Demolition Man with trailer
2) UK Air Force One with teaser and featurette
3) UK Gladiator with a broad sampling of disc 2 extra content
4) UK Magnum Force with two featurettes
5) UK Predator 2 with two featurettes

Both those countries utilize 50 Hz power and there were absolutely no problems on my Samsung BDP-1000, no speed-ups or otherwise. At present, I've no reason to believe there is any such thing as 50 Vs 60 Hz HD-DVD or BD. Can any others with greater knowledge contribute to this question?
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post #1353 of 1368 Old 01-01-2013, 04:57 AM
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Yes, because none of those discs have 50hz content.

All of the major studios, will by and large not use 50hz or PAL content in any form.

It's when you get into the smaller labels and sub-divisions across Europe and Australia, then it becomes quite common.

Just because you don't believe it, doesn't mean it's not 100% true.
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post #1354 of 1368 Old 01-01-2013, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

At present, I've no reason to believe there is any such thing as 50 Vs 60 Hz HD-DVD or BD. Can any others with greater knowledge contribute to this question?

No, that's not correct.

Hidef 50hz is not the most common case on imports but neither is it rare.

Sometimes a film-based title is converted to 50hz for broadcast and that version is used for the Blu-ray disc. We have a thread on those titles, although I have not seen it updated recently. The same thing happens in 60hz countries: you see 1080i60 discs of film-based titles.

With modern cameras features are sometimes natively 1080i50. The import of DOWNTOWN ABBEY season 3, for example.

The Blu-ray standard includes the most common case: 23.976hz, but also the oddball 24.0 and often 1080i60 and 1080i50. Those are just the hidef frame rates; BR also allows legacy NTSC and PAL formats for the standard definition supplements.

-Bill
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post #1355 of 1368 Old 01-14-2013, 11:15 PM
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Anyone else bought this disk? Have you been able to play it? I have an Oppo 93 which I thought was universal but no dice.
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post #1356 of 1368 Old 01-15-2013, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Phil Olson View Post

Anyone else bought this disk? Have you been able to play it? I have an Oppo 93 which I thought was universal but no dice.

Oppo players will play any disc provided there are no region restrictions. The disc you are trying to play is probably Region B (if Blu-Ray) or other than Region 1 or 0 (for DVD) and won't play for that reason. There are aftermarket mods available for Oppo players that can allow for playing of region-locked discs. Check your specific Oppo player owner's forum for more info.

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post #1357 of 1368 Old 01-16-2013, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

Guess I'm a little confused. Everything I've read to date tells me HD-DVD and BD HD programming is independent of 50/60 Hz. As long as it's region accessible, it will play properly. Regarding additional BD content, as long as it's NTSC, it will also play properly.

I just sampled the extra content (and films) of several of my overseas purchased BD.

1) French release of Demolition Man with trailer
2) UK Air Force One with teaser and featurette
3) UK Gladiator with a broad sampling of disc 2 extra content
4) UK Magnum Force with two featurettes
5) UK Predator 2 with two featurettes

Both those countries utilize 50 Hz power and there were absolutely no problems on my Samsung BDP-1000, no speed-ups or otherwise.
That player will probably play the 50i ones anyway, though I doubt any of the ones you've listed are.
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At present, I've no reason to believe there is any such thing as 50 Vs 60 Hz HD-DVD or BD.
I don't think there were ever any 50Hz HD-DVDs, since the Toshiba players weren't capable of it until around the time they announced they'd be stopping making the players, when they released a firmware update to enable it.
There are Blu-ray titles with 50i and 60i. Have a look at recent UK TV series on BD - they're likely to be 50i for the UK version.
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post #1358 of 1368 Old 03-12-2013, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

That player will probably play the 50i ones anyway, though I doubt any of the ones you've listed are.
I don't think there were ever any 50Hz HD-DVDs, since the Toshiba players weren't capable of it until around the time they announced they'd be stopping making the players, when they released a firmware update to enable it.
There are Blu-ray titles with 50i and 60i. Have a look at recent UK TV series on BD - they're likely to be 50i for the UK version.

There were a few television titles released on HD DVD in 1080i/50, Planet Earth being one example.

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post #1359 of 1368 Old 03-12-2013, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Pecker View Post

There were a few television titles released on HD DVD in 1080i/50, Planet Earth being one example.

Steve W
Do you own Planet Earth on HD-DVD and have you checked (eg. by the info button on the player/tv remote - if they tell you the refresh rate)? Or are you just going by what it says on the case (eg. 1080i) and assuming that means it's 1080/50i?

See this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/822245/unofficial-hd-dvd-audio-and-video-specifications-thread/90#post_14456426
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post #1360 of 1368 Old 03-12-2013, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pecker View Post

There were a few television titles released on HD DVD in 1080i/50, Planet Earth being one example.

I have the HD-DVD of Planet Earth and it is 1080p dispite any claims otherwise.
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post #1361 of 1368 Old 03-19-2013, 03:24 AM
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I'll have to check it out.

I'm in the UK, BTW. Not sure if the discs aren't different. The original BBC broadcast will certainly have been 1080/50i. As far as I'm aware most players and displays struggle with 1080/25p, which is what it would be de-interlaced at the correct running spped.

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post #1362 of 1368 Old 03-19-2013, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Pecker View Post

As far as I'm aware most players and displays struggle with 1080/25p, which is what it would be de-interlaced at the correct running spped.
Except for the credits, and probably transitions. The sd special features on the special edition are 50hz.

As far as I know, the European/UK Blu-ray of Planet Earth: Special Edition was the first version of PE on disc that was HD at 50i.
All previous versions of Planet Earth (on HD-DVD or Blu-ray) were either 1080p24 (approx) or 60i.
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post #1363 of 1368 Old 03-20-2013, 02:22 AM
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+1 but AFAIK the first BBC BDs to come in 1080i50 was Nature's Great Events (Jun 2009) and Life (Nov 2009). PE SE was in Oct 2010.

I don't think players would de-interlace 50i to 25p as this isn't in the spec and cannot be output, unless you are sure 50p output is really 25p doubled, but motion adaptive de-interlacing would generate 50p in any case. The US Pioneer Kuro would display 50i/50p as 75Hz so this could be 25p x 3.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #1364 of 1368 Old 03-20-2013, 11:39 AM
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Yes, I was saying it (the special edition) was the first version of Planet Earth on a high def disc that was 50i, not that it was the first BBC 50i HD disc.
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Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

I don't think players would de-interlace 50i to 25p as this isn't in the spec and cannot be output, unless you are sure 50p output is really 25p doubled, but motion adaptive de-interlacing would generate 50p in any case. The US Pioneer Kuro would display 50i/50p as 75Hz so this could be 25p x 3.
I think what they would (or should do) is for 50i content that is 25Hz in temporal resolution (eg. the main sections of Planet Earth: Special Edition, excluding things like credits), it would /should de-interlace those parts to 1080p25 and then double it to 1080p50 for output (since 1080p50 is one of the main output standards - for EU - depending in player output settings). For 50Hz temporal resolution sections (eg. end credits, special features) it wouldn't de-interacle to 1080p25 first but would de-interlace instead to 1080p50. Basically for 25Hz motion, keep 25Hz motion, and for 50Hz motion, keep 50Hz motion (talking about European players).
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post #1365 of 1368 Old 03-21-2013, 12:20 AM
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Why would the credits not be 25p if the main feature is 25p, afterall for film everything can be 24p?

I suspect for 25p material, 25Hz speed repeated or 50Hz speed if done correctly would be very similar or identical, except perhaps for very fast motion. Any test material to show the difference?

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #1366 of 1368 Old 03-21-2013, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

Why would the credits not be 25p if the main feature is 25p, afterall for film everything can be 24p?
The credits are 50Hz instead of 25Hz so that they scroll up the screen twice as smoothly or to quote the BBC "to prevent unacceptable judder" (see below).

Here are the BBC guidelines:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/dq/pdf/tv/tv_delivery_of_programmes_to_worldwide_v1.0-2011.pdf
According to the guidelines:
Quote:
Electronically generated moving graphics and effects (such as rollers, DVE moves, wipes, fades and dissolves) must be generated and added as interlaced to prevent unacceptable judder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca 
I suspect for 25p material, 25Hz speed repeated or 50Hz speed if done correctly would be very similar or identical, except perhaps for very fast motion. Any test material to show the difference?
If a TV was always outputting at 50Hz, it wouldn't matter if the 25Hz source it was receiving was 25Hz (if that was possible in HDMI) or 50Hz with the source frames doubled. Both should look the same (though in a thread in the Flat Panel section (the one about motion blur measurement) they're claiming that an LCD display with a 30Hz output option would display 30Hz content better than one outputting 30Hz content at 60Hz (doubling each frame)).
But for smooth motion, 25p isn't as good as 50i (interlaced footage) - see quote from BBC guidelines above. For motion, 50Hz motion is twice as smooth as 25Hz motion. eg. the difference would be like the difference between "film look" and "video look".
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post #1367 of 1368 Old 03-21-2013, 06:56 PM
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The credits (usually slow moving) in 24p film looks smooth to me when viewed in 72Hz, certainly not 'unacceptable judder'. I can understand for special effect graphics with fast motion there might be a good reason for using 50Hz speed instead of 25Hz.

As to the 25p vs 50i, I was referring to 25p native source mastered as 50i on disc. I was saying 50i de-interlaced by weaving adjacent fields to 25p, then repeated to 50p, would be very similar to when each successive field is applied line interpolation without weaving to get 50p, if done correctly unless there is high speed motion. LCD always looks more juddery/broken up in motion to me and I suspect what you said is more to do with its inherent technology.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #1368 of 1368 Old 03-23-2013, 02:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

The credits (usually slow moving) in 24p film looks smooth to me when viewed in 72Hz, certainly not 'unacceptable judder'. I can understand for special effect graphics with fast motion there might be a good reason for using 50Hz speed instead of 25Hz.
I think if you compared them you'd still notice that the 50Hz titles were a lot smoother. A good comparison would be if you can compare credits of the same size & speed.
24 fps films probably need to use slow credits to minimize the judder.
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LCD always looks more juddery/broken up in motion to me and I suspect what you said is more to do with its inherent technology.
Various film makers are moving to higher frame rates because of the judder of 24Hz, and UHDTV has made 120 fps one of it's options, so it's not just because of LCD technology.
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