Criterion Goes Blu!!! - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 2499 Old 12-02-2008, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geremia P. View Post

I agree completely, those are DVD images encoded on a Blu-ray. Sadly, I'll stick with my Miramax disc.

Please do. But there is no comparison between SD and these HD transfers. The stills look great. No, it does not look like "Speedracer", not at all. It looks like the film element they used. That's the ultimate goal of any high quality transfer. If it still looks like this when watching the whole film I'll become a regular Criterion customer.
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post #452 of 2499 Old 12-02-2008, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipside927 View Post

Comparison and Review of Chungking Express

Not impressive.
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post #453 of 2499 Old 12-02-2008, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins View Post

Not impressive.

Speak for yourself. I'm impressed.

I don't feel special...
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post #454 of 2499 Old 12-02-2008, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectator View Post

Speak for yourself. I'm impressed.

Exactly. I'm impressed, as well. I only wish I would've gone with the "more expensive" route this time and ordered directly from Criterion's website so that I might get my copies early, as well. Oh, well. I'll live.

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post #455 of 2499 Old 12-02-2008, 08:20 AM
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Glad you're impressed, but from Criterion I would've expected a higher level of visual quality in a high definition release. I'd have to see it for myself first (and I will seeing as I ordered it) but from what I've seen it hardly looks as though it'll blow me away. The improvement over the DVD transfer looks very slight.
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post #456 of 2499 Old 12-02-2008, 09:16 AM
 
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as it has been said before, they dont have access to the original masters or something like that. so dont expect too much
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post #457 of 2499 Old 12-02-2008, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post

they dont have access to the original masters or something like that

Seriously? Why not?

Didn't know that, guess I missed something in this thread somewhere.
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post #458 of 2499 Old 12-02-2008, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins View Post

Seriously? Why not?

If you are not the producer of a film or the copyright owner it's not easy to get access to the camera negative. In addition for older films the relevant master element is usually an interpositive (IP) made from the original negative. And this was used here as far as I know. While Blu Rays of new films often come from the DI which is made directly from the camera negative. We are spoilt in this regard.
Now, the IP is also a very high quality film element, just not quite as sharp and detailed as the camera negative. Additional softness can be due to the visual style of the film and digital processing during and after telecine. To say more one needs to watch the transfer. The stills look fine and free of obvious digital tampering.
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post #459 of 2499 Old 12-02-2008, 03:37 PM
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TTM review at the beaver
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews8/thirdman.htm

Quote:


ADDITION: Criterion Blu-ray - December 08': Utilizing the same high definition master as the standard DVD (re-issue) released in 2007, we have essentially the same image with better resolution. Technically over 3 times the bitrate. This is a dual-layered Blu-ray with the feature taking up approximately 27Gig of space transferred with the AVC encode. On my 42" system the improvment is certainly noticeable but the larger your system display - the superior the Criterion Blu-ray will appear beyond the DVD(s) image. This transfer has the same infrequent marks and speckles, much less noise/more grain than the re-issue DVD and looks pretty sweet with rich contrast that appears a shade more pure. In short everything is better visually. The Blu-ray may be marginally brighter. Watch out though - it will be hard to go back once you see it in 1080!

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Criterion are committed to this 1080P venture and they are being fair in not gouging for a higher price - this is actually cheaper than the SD-DVD re-issue from 2007! It's the best way to see The Third Man digitally in your home. We absolutely endorse.

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post #460 of 2499 Old 12-02-2008, 08:57 PM
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Bottle Rocket in your beaver
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDRe...et_blu-ray.htm

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ADDITION: Criterion Blu-ray - December 08': Utilizing the same high definition master as the standard DVD from a couple of weeks back, we have essentially the same color palette with better resolution. Technically over 4 times the bitrate. This is a dual-layered Blu-ray with the feature taking up approximately 26Gig of space transferred with the AVC encode. Detail shows a demonstrative improvement. Colors, especially reds, seem far more true. It looks quite impressive.

We have a DTS-HD master track that brings much of the film's score and delightful music to life with selections from Oliver Onions, The Proclaimers and The Rolling Stones. It's not an aggressive track and the mix reflects that but it has a few moments and some subtleties to. This Blu-ray offers only English subtitles as an option.


Extras are duplicated from the recent DVD (see full description below) and thankfully housed all on one disc with many in HD (including The Making of ...,the original thirteen-minute black-and-white short film, The Shafrazi Lectures, No. 1: Bottle Rocket and the Murita Cycles). I actually finished the amusing commentary and it enhanced by strong enjoyment of the film. We also get the liner notes booklet.

Once again Criterion's packaging is fairly basic - a more environmentally friendly cardboard slipcase. I've been enamored with this film for years and it looks and sounds better than ever - personally, a very easy sale. It has a strong recommendation from DVDBeaver.

already sold and waiting
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post #461 of 2499 Old 12-02-2008, 09:30 PM
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Oh man, those shots of Bottle Rocket look fantastic. That might have the nicest looking film grain of any BD yet.

More Wes Anderson please, it's hard to find something the brings solid photography as well as it does the funny.

Damn you searchlight with Darjeeling. You'll be sorry, that's your best HD candidate.

Never thought Bottle Rocket would look that good. Blu-ray kicks ass, every couple of weeks we get a killer title.
Still hyped for TDK, but Bottle Rocket is my most wanted.

Ridiculous codec tier sig gone. Still AVC/24bit lossless fanboy.

Studio quality tier
Most Major studios>Small Studios>dogs>cats>Warner(the guys that do new movies)
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post #462 of 2499 Old 12-02-2008, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowrage View Post

Oh man, those shots of Bottle Rocket look fantastic. That might have the nicest looking film grain of any BD yet.

More Wes Anderson please, it's hard to find something the brings solid photography as well as it does the funny.

Damn you searchlight with Darjeeling. You'll be sorry, that's your best HD candidate.

Never thought Bottle Rocket would look that good. Blu-ray kicks ass, every couple of weeks we get a killer title.
Still hyped for TDK, but Bottle Rocket is my most wanted.

agreed on all points
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post #463 of 2499 Old 12-02-2008, 09:53 PM
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Looks like they did a nice job encoding the movies especially with all the fine grain present.

Bottle Rocket looks a tad soft and I know Wong Kar Wai's movies are usually soft and extremely grainy.

At what resolution do they run the films through the telecine? 2K? They would very much benefit from 4K.
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post #464 of 2499 Old 12-04-2008, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckZ View Post

At what resolution do they run the films through the telecine? 2K?

Yes. Bottle Rocket does look good though, I must say.

I love that movie, still waiting for it to show up.
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post #465 of 2499 Old 12-04-2008, 03:28 PM
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I have to say, I was expecting these to look better than they do...

Chungking isn't a significant upgrade, and neither is MWFTE
The Third Man is slightly better, and Bottle Rocket... but they are the only 2 that are noticeable upgrades from what I can see...
maybe it's the fact that an SD DVD from Criterion was always a step ahead of most other studios for somparative films, therefore the room for upgrade is smaller than others...

I was all over these when announced, then the region blocking pissed me off, but tbh I would only possibly purchase The Third Man anyway from this first bunch... which I still can't do anyway with my region B player...
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post #466 of 2499 Old 12-04-2008, 03:43 PM
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I have to agree with Kobeson, looking at the screencaps at dvdbeaver (keeping in mind they're JPEGS) I'm not impressed. There doesn't seem to a whole lot of detail to them. I guess my problem is that I own the Criterion version of the 7th Seal and the Tartan blu-ray and the difference between them is phenomenal so I was expecting similar results (and yes I realize the masters they got might not have been perfect). Maybe its a different story when they're in motion but I'm not going to blind buy them like I had planned to.
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post #467 of 2499 Old 12-04-2008, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kobeson View Post

I have to say, I was expecting these to look better than they do...

Chungking isn't a significant upgrade, and neither is MWFTE
The Third Man is slightly better, and Bottle Rocket... but they are the only 2 that are noticeable upgrades from what I can see...
maybe it's the fact that an SD DVD from Criterion was always a step ahead of most other studios for somparative films, therefore the room for upgrade is smaller than others...

I honestly think it's that these are just movies that don't show off HD as well as others. Not that there's anything wrong with that, or that they aren't worth releasing, but they are what they are.
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post #468 of 2499 Old 12-04-2008, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdssrugby View Post

I have to agree with Kobeson, looking at the screencaps at dvdbeaver (keeping in mind they're JPEGS) I'm not impressed. There doesn't seem to a whole lot of detail to them. I guess my problem is that I own the Criterion version of the 7th Seal and the Tartan blu-ray and the difference between them is phenomenal so I was expecting similar results (and yes I realize the masters they got might not have been perfect). Maybe its a different story when they're in motion but I'm not going to blind buy them like I had planned to.

I still want to purchase the Seventh Seal Blu, even though I have the Criterion DVD already...

but to further your comment, and mine, from looking at the dvdbeaver comparison review of The Seventh Seal (and the blu-ray.com one also), the screencaps show how significant the upgrade from SD DVD to Blu-Ray is...

so what I am saying is that I don't even think seeing these Criterion Blu's in motion would improve them much...

I was expecting better results ala 7th Seal + Casablanca also... but as SirDrexl put it, maybe these ones just can't be improved upon as much as some... a bit disappointing though, I will definitely wait for any comparison reviews before ordering any of them (once I get my region A player anyway )
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post #469 of 2499 Old 12-04-2008, 05:17 PM
 
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heres a comparison of the criterion DVD and the Alto Media R3 DVD. its not same frame, as I had to take the images with vlc (and cant or dont know how to make exact steps in the video there), because powerdvd made problems with the AR, it looked all wrong. nevertheless, its mostly about colours and sharpness, so its still fine. according dvdbeaver the blu-ray had exactly the same colours as the criterion DVD, so you can estimate how its going to look by that.


Criterion (left) VS Alto Media R3 (right)












while I like the greenish look of the criterion (3rd picture) I have to say that I dont really like its brighter overall look. imho it looks a little nicer the the darker, stronger colours of the R3 version. and as it seems its also a little more sharp. basically I like the criterion bette on shots 1 and 3, but for the rest I prefer the R3 version on my TV.
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post #470 of 2499 Old 12-05-2008, 07:40 AM
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Thanks for posting those comparisons, Thunderbolt!

The R3 release was - by far - the best version up till now. Anyone still watching the Miramax version is getting hosed on both video and audio.

I've been waiting for just this comparison. From your grabs, I certainly prefer the Criterion DVD to the Alto Media disc. And, as you probably know, the "green filter" look is typical of Chris Doyle/WKW and they've spoken out strongly against those releases that removed it (particularly "2046", which seemed to get more than its fair share of "natural color" releases). Of course, the CC release is DP/D approved.

I agree, however, that it is difficult to tell much difference between the DVD and the BD going by the Beaver's jpegs. I had a similar issue when deciding whether to import the HK-BD of "Days of Being Wild". The Beaver's comparisons showed very little difference, and I could only perceive the slightest improvement on my home computer with the better monitor. Still and with much reluctance, I ordered the HK-BD and hoped for the best.

My hopes were amply rewarded. Despite some typically dodgy subtitle translations, the HK disc looks immensely better "in motion". In fact, a direct A:B between my Tartan WKW-Collection release (upscaled to 1080i via Oppo) and the HK-BD (output at 1080i via Panny BD30) revealed that the latter had a much more solid image, far better colors, and much better detail (as well, it was derived from a much more pristine print). And - no small thing - a huge step up in audio quality.

There likely won't be as great a difference between the CC DVD and BD of "Chungking" as these are both derived from the same scan, but thanks to your graps I'm feeling even more optimistic that my much-beloved R3 actually will be replaced by an even superior transfer. I honestly never thought it would get much better than that.

One more WKW-related tidbit: Kino has announced that "Fallen Angels" will be one of its first BDs... hopefully rendering my (also quite gorgeous) Alto Media R3 release of that flick obsolete!
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post #471 of 2499 Old 12-05-2008, 08:44 AM
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Hey, Rich, you have taste. Come over to Albany and hang out with me.

I don't feel special...
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post #472 of 2499 Old 12-05-2008, 10:36 AM
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Don't do it, he might rape you.
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post #473 of 2499 Old 12-05-2008, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins View Post

Don't do it, he might rape you.

You talking to him or me?

I don't feel special...
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post #474 of 2499 Old 12-05-2008, 11:30 AM
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I'm obviously talking to both of you.
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post #475 of 2499 Old 12-05-2008, 11:52 AM
 
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I know that the criterion disc is approved and I also like that greenish thing, but I just dont like the overall brighter look that comes along with it :S

taking into account that the weather is more sunny there in those regions in china as in central europe, the darker skin colour in the 2nd last screenshot of the R3 looks more right too me. the skin colour of the criterion disc is too white. we have some chinese students at our university and in average they have a little darker skin colour than what is seen in the criterion edition.
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post #476 of 2499 Old 12-05-2008, 12:15 PM
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I prefer the Criterion; the R3 is contrast boosted. Blown whites on the shirt in the last shot, but even worse are the unnatural and harsh highlights on the face. In the third shot practically all the shadow detail is gone, leaving only a silhouette. It gives the scene a different and interesting look as well, but I doubt it's what they were shooting for.
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post #477 of 2499 Old 12-05-2008, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post

we have some chinese students at our university and in average they have a little darker skin colour than what is seen in the criterion edition.

I'm pretty sure Criterion's methods of gauging accurate skin tone is slightly more sensible than your method of basing it completely on the handful of Chinese students at your University.

When I got the Prestige I thought the skin tones were all off, Christian Bale wasn't pale enough, but then I realized I had gone temporarily insane and was basing it on my pale brother and some really white guy I saw that day at the grocery store. When I realized all white people came in slightly different shades my world was turned upside down and I had to reevaluate the score I gave the movie (I originally only gave it a B, B for "Borderline swarthy.")

On second thought maybe your University should let Criterion borrow its Chinese students so they can properly adjust the skin tones of their future Hong Kong titles so they more accurately reflect the average shade of your college's student body.
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post #478 of 2499 Old 12-05-2008, 12:51 PM
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I'm not sure what value there is in judging the skin tones on this release against real people/real-world situations. This is stylized cinematography and the pertinent question is not "What do real Chinese people look like under x, y and z lighting conditions?", but "What do Wong Kar-Wai and Christopher Doyle want this film to look like?"

I don't feel special...
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post #479 of 2499 Old 12-05-2008, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectator View Post

"What do real Chinese people look like under x, y and z lighting conditions?"

Enough talk, talk is cheap. There's only one way to find out, you grab the lightbulbs, I'll get the place tickets.
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post #480 of 2499 Old 12-05-2008, 01:02 PM
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I think we'd better hold up the typical AVS standard, here, and go for real accuracy in our measurements. I'm not going to settle for just any Chinese people.

Anybody have Faye Wong's address?

I don't feel special...
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