"Despicable" Patton comparison *PIX* - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by louigi222 View Post

Yes....but do YOU believe that? What's YOUR opinion? It's YOUR money. I don't know if you've seen the BD Patton but the BD screen shots to me look terrific....soooooo much better than the SD DVD shots.
Could the BD version been better? Probably.
Could ALL of the 400+ BD releases have been better? Probably.
Is it a waste of my money, or your money, to buy the BD Patton disc?
This is something we each have to answer for ourselves.

I'm pretty sure you are happy with the way Patton looks.

Fortunately ,it appears that the overwhelming majority of us here are not. This is heartening. Having the foremost film restoration expert on our side adds much to our credibility.

I love Robert Harris' remark about "least common denominator" and "freshly waxed floor" it would be difficult to have summed it up much better.

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post #362 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 05:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jgatie View Post

It's funny, I was just thinking about this very analogy. I was reminded of a story I heard about Chef Jasper White (a reknowned chef here in Boston). At one of Jasper's restaurants, a woman was making a scene and calling for the chef.

Jasper came out of the kitchen and asked what the problem was. The woman said her steak was awful. Jasper asked her if was cooked to her preferred doneness. She answered yes. He asked her if it was prepared as the menu described it. She said yes. He then asked "So then what's the problem?" The woman said "It's just awful!!"

Jasper promptly told her to get out of his restaurant, flinging a few curses along with the request. He comped the meal for the remainder of her party . . . and got a standing ovation from the rest of the diners.

There's a big difference between Jasper White and the kid manning the grill at BK . . . if only more people appreciated that fact.

I think Jasper should have sampled the steak....maybe it was bad?
In any event, I think the gracious thing to do was to apologize and proclaim with a smile, " ma'am, I'm going to personally cook you the best steak you've ever tasted in your life." If I saw this, I would stand up and clap. In business...the customer is ALWAYS right!
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post #363 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 06:25 PM
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Fortunately ,it appears that the overwhelming majority of us here are not. This is heartening. Having the foremost film restoration expert on our side adds much to our credibility.

The same Robert Harris who sang the praises of the BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA Blu Ray? Sad to say the guy's word isn't worth nearly as much as you seem to think it does, regardless of his restoration work years ago.
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post #364 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by DM2006RI View Post

The same Robert Harris who sang the praises of the BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA Blu Ray? Sad to say the guy's word isn't worth nearly as much as you seem to think it does, regardless of his restoration work years ago.

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post #365 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

Depends on what you mean by "great". For many of us, "great" means "an extremely faithful reproduction of the original film". For others (including you, apparently) "great" means "a nice, clean, scrubbed HD video look that need not be faithful to the original film".

You see, this issue of semantics is exactly what I was referring to in my comment.

Compared to any of the previous releases of Patton on any format, this Blu-ray edition looks FAR from terrible...in fact it looks GREAT.

The problem is that it should look FANTASTIC. Unfortunately, because of the DNR and EE, it merely looks GREAT.

To anyone who considers themselves true videophiles and film lovers, GREAT is unacceptable if FANTASTIC is possible.

I was arguing the point that anyone who says Patton looks terrible is being far to judgemental and not being fair to what is actually there, and it is this reason why this discussion has become so heated. Anyone with eyes in their heads should look at those screenies and say "wow, that's a gorgeous image!"

But...they should also realize that this image, great as it looks compared to all the other versions shown, in fact should be MUCH, MUCH better because it is missing detail that has been spoiled by severe post-processing.

If you think these Blu-ray screenies look terrible, then I think you're being far too anal. On the other hand if you are disappointed because, as good as the new transfer looks, the transfer should not have been mutilated by DNR and EE, and would have been immeasurably better if it wasn't, then you are completely justified in saying so, IMO.

J6P, who doesn't know any better, would look at these screenies and say you're crazy if you try to tell them these Blu-ray images look "despicable" (hence the arguing in this thread). What they need to be told is not that they loo terrible (which they don't), but they are not true to the original master and have been tampered with. A much better transfer is possible and should have been released instead of this one.

Raise a stink with FOX if you have a problem with it...I'm all for that. This movie deserves to be seen in the best possible transfer, and the present one ISN'T it. But don't try to tell people this transfer looks terrible.
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post #366 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DM2006RI View Post

The same Robert Harris who sang the praises of the BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA Blu Ray? Sad to say the guy's word isn't worth nearly as much as you seem to think it does, regardless of his restoration work years ago.


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post #367 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 07:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

I'm pretty sure you are happy with the way Patton looks.

Probably...but it's not on my "must have" list. I'd buy it on a 2 for 1 sale. You Purists aren't going to make a fuss about Warner's removing those Cinerama lines on How the West Was Won are you? That's on my "must have" list.
Quote:


Fortunately ,it appears that the overwhelming majority of us here are not. This is heartening. Having the foremost film restoration expert on our side adds much to our credibility.

Anything that Mr Harris can do to improve BD PQ on his side of the fence would be welcome in my book.
Quote:


I love Robert Harris' remark about "least common denominator" and "freshly waxed floor" it would be difficult to have summed it up much better.

I think it's insulting and very unprofessional. You catch more flies with honey.....
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post #368 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by louigi222 View Post

I think Jasper should have sampled the steak....maybe it was bad?
In any event, I think the gracious thing to do was to apologize and proclaim with a smile, " ma'am, I'm going to personally cook you the best steak you've ever tasted in your life." If I saw this, I would stand up and clap. In business...the customer is ALWAYS right!

Jasper already cooked her the best steak of her life. The woman was just too much of a tool to realize it and probably complained about everything to everyone in all facets of her life. In art (and fine cuisine is art) the artist should be respected, especially by those who can't produce that kind of art.

In short, she wasn't his customer, she was his guest. She just didn't realize it.
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post #369 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 07:23 PM
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I think this is a different Robert Harris as this one actually saw something wrong with the image and criticized it instead of just blindly praising it and pulling stuff out of thin air.

If you order steak and you get a plastic replica the cook better get fired.
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post #370 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by DM2006RI View Post

The same Robert Harris who sang the praises of the BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA Blu Ray? Sad to say the guy's word isn't worth nearly as much as you seem to think it does, regardless of his restoration work years ago.


"Years ago?" You mean like his just finished supervision of the full 4k restoration of The Godfather films? So how many films have you restored lately.
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post #371 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by louigi222 View Post

Probably...but it's not on my "must have" list. I'd buy it on a 2 for 1 sale. You Purists aren't going to make a fuss about Warner's removing those Cinerama lines on How the West Was Won are you? That's on my "must have" list.

Anything that Mr Harris can do to improve BD PQ on his side of the fence would be welcome in my book.

I think it's insulting and very unprofessional. You catch more flies with honey.....

He's not trying to catch you. He's seen these threads and knows you and your ilk are a hopeless cause. Are you seriously trying to say you could be swayed from your Philistine ways by a little more sweetness in RAH's posts?
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post #372 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 07:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jgatie View Post

Jasper already cooked her the best steak of her life. The woman was just too much of a tool to realize it and probably complained about everything to everyone in all facets of her life. In art (and fine cuisine is art) the artist should be respected, especially by those who can't produce that kind of art.

In short, she wasn't his customer, she was his guest. She just didn't realize it.

Jgatie,
Trust me...I'm older and wiser than you. How the steak tasted in this situation you describe is not the point. Always, and I mean ALWAYS do the gracious thing even if your the greatest artist in the world.
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post #373 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by louigi222 View Post


I think it's insulting and very unprofessional. You catch more flies with honey.....

It may be insulting to a degree, but perhaps Mr. Harris felt that Fox was insulting the consumer (or, considering some of the posts in this thread, I should say "film lovers" instead of consumer) by giving us a transfer of Patton with DNR?

I don't think that is unprofessional. I think it is calling it like you see it....whether you agree with it or not.
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post #374 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by louigi222 View Post

Jgatie,
Trust me...I'm older and wiser than you. How the steak tasted in this situation you describe is not the point. Always, and I mean ALWAYS do the gracious thing even if your the greatest artist in the world.

I've eaten at Jasper's. I've also eaten at his Summer Shack restaurant. The ungracious one was the woman, not Jasper. He has been nothing but humble and gracious the couple times I've met him. He's just not tolerant of those who think just because he cooks your food, you automatically get to abuse him to show off what a big shot you are. Jasper White earned the right to insult a tool like that. So has Robert Harris.
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post #375 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 08:14 PM
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The woman at Jasper's reminds me of a number of "experts" we have here at AVS.

 

It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so

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post #376 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 08:19 PM
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The woman as Jasper's reminds me of a number of "experts" we have here at AVS.

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post #377 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 08:21 PM
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The woman as Jasper's reminds me of a number of "experts" we have here at AVS.

That woman was no "expert" . . . you can follow the logic from there.
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post #378 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 08:24 PM
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Bottom Line.
Everyone should stop buying FOX Studios releases on Blu-Ray because they treat HD like DVD.
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post #379 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 08:45 PM
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Bottom Line.
Everyone should stop buying FOX Studios releases on Blu-Ray because they treat HD like DVD.

There have been some posts in this thread that I have considered to be ignorant, but none more so than this.

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post #380 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post

To anyone who considers themselves true videophiles and film lovers, GREAT is unacceptable if FANTASTIC is possible.

Anyone getting tired of this "class" warfare BS?

I am now NOT a film lover because I bought Patton, and enjoyed the film

I'd love to get my hands on a Blu Monster's Ball.-LilStinky

Refering to a possible release of said movie on BD LOL
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post #381 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 09:43 PM
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Well, I decided. Even though it was a gift, I returned Patton & The Longest Day for There Will Be Blood & Spiderwick Chronicles. Just can't support this type of excessive DNR crap on classics. A little DNR, maybe, but Patton/Longest Day shouldn't look like direct-digital Dreamworks Animation titles.

Fox's poor judgment is Paramount's gain!
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post #382 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Urza View Post

Anyone getting tired of this "class" warfare BS?

I am now NOT a film lover because I bought Patton, and enjoyed the film

Did you actually read my comments in their entirety? by "film lover" I meant in terms of the image itself. If it makes you feel any better, ignore the words "film lover" and re-read my comment. I think you'll see that the conclusion you're drawing from that one little phrase is not what I was saying at all.
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post #383 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

This shouldn't devolve into a bash/praise Robert Harris thread. He is indeed an expert in film restoration and has more knowledge in his left finger than most of us in our whole body but to be honest some of the HDdvd releases he praised were indeed clunkers. He gave the first release of Full Metal Jacket and The Perfect Storm high praise when many thought something looked off and later we all learned and WB admitted that they were made from filtered 1080i masters and had tons of jaggies. At the time he said they looked great and film-like and in regards to FMJ said it looked exactly as it should. Well, the new 1080P transfer of FMJ was released and looked miles better. We also have a new BD coming of The Perfect Storm that WB said will be correct.

The Perfect Storm - HD DVD - VC1





Full Metal Jacket (Original Version) - Blu-ray - MPEG-2






And The Dracula thing is very controversial. Many who knew the film very well feel that they reduxed the new transfer way too much. He also admitted he didn't know the film that well. If one sees the BD without knowing what it used to look like, sure, it looks pretty good and film-like.

However in regards to this with the DNR he is indeed spot on.

Didn't they correct "Full Metal Jacket"? I thought the white covered version was crap, I didn't open mine and I exchanged it for the remastered version so I never had a chance to compare. I agree they should use the best available transfer and if they are not we are getting short changed. But they did this with LD and DVD.... Came out with remastered sound and picture quality, I don't see this being any different except greedy since they are having problems coming up with original content anymore. Lets see how many versions of Star Wars I have.. LOL I have Patton and Longest Day on order but might rethink this, but I read Sand Pebbles looks great.
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post #384 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 10:51 PM
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You returned the Longest Day?!?! I realize the DNR turned you off, but how can you return a movie with such an unintentionally hilarious scene like the one in which Rommel stands on the Beaches and discusses its defense.

While I agree with your stance on DNR, I can t return my copies of The Longest Day or Patton, so I will enjoy them as they are and await the (inevitable) re-release, hopefully without DNR.
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post #385 of 930 Old 06-19-2008, 11:01 PM
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yes, garman. The above pics are from the original release. The perfect storm is soon to be reissued as well
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post #386 of 930 Old 06-20-2008, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by louigi222 View Post

I think it's insulting and very unprofessional. You catch more flies with honey.....

Yes. I also think it's insulting and very unprofessional... of Fox to release Patton as they did.
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post #387 of 930 Old 06-20-2008, 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by paintit77 View Post

Bottom Line.
Everyone should stop buying FOX Studios releases on Blu-Ray because they treat HD like DVD.

Not really. I enjoyed many Fox releases. Patton is something else, though.
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post #388 of 930 Old 06-20-2008, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

This shouldn't devolve into a bash/praise Robert Harris thread. He is indeed an expert in film restoration and has more knowledge in his left finger than most of us in our whole body but to be honest some of the HDdvd releases he praised were indeed clunkers. He gave the first release of Full Metal Jacket and The Perfect Storm high praise when many thought something looked off and later we all learned and WB admitted that they were made from filtered 1080i masters and had tons of jaggies. At the time he said they looked great and film-like and in regards to FMJ said it looked exactly as it should. Well, the new 1080P transfer of FMJ was released and looked miles better. We also have a new BD coming of The Perfect Storm that WB said will be correct.

So, the guy claims that the first incarnation of FMJ looked "good" and Im supposed to take his word over other critics? I guess this just proves the theory that you'll have to make your own PQ/AQ decisions and not neccessarily trust all of the reviewers. Especially since a large majority of them heap praise on the Patton transfer.

So if this guy is working on the Godfather Blu-ray discs, I HOPE he uses common sense and gets rid of the damned grain, gets rid of the orange color tint, and bloats out the contrast so it looks like Discovery HD Theater.

We want 3D POP!!!!!!

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post #389 of 930 Old 06-20-2008, 07:03 AM
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Still waiting for them to reply WHY they released this film in this manner.
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post #390 of 930 Old 06-20-2008, 07:41 AM
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Still waiting for them to reply WHY they released this film in this manner.

As I have suggested elsewhere, my theory is the reason they did this was to make the movie fit on a single disc.
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