"Despicable" Patton comparison *PIX* - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 930 Old 07-03-2008, 02:21 AM
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rlsmith,

very correct post and I am well aware of the BlowUps of standard 35mm movies. I originally intended to write "large format films with 70mm prints" in order to be able to include Spartacus that was not shot in 65mm but in Super Technirama 70. I have edited my post accordingly.
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post #632 of 930 Old 07-03-2008, 02:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Yet I've never seen an IMAX presention in person that had no visible grain.


Art

I was referring to the IMAX Antartica Blu-Ray mentioned by Sheldonison. It might be possible that the film grain of the IMAX elements is too fine to make it to the 1920 x 1080 resolution possible with Blu-Ray.

They should have made movies with IMAX cameras and a 1.5 anamorphic lens similar to Technirama and Super Technirama 70 - now that would have made for some nice looking movies, even the reduction prints to standard 70mm would have looked very nice
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post #633 of 930 Old 07-03-2008, 02:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davide View Post

This is from widescreen museum website and is a frame from the Dimension 150 print.

Now if we could get that as a high quality scan with a resolution of 2k or more ...
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post #634 of 930 Old 07-03-2008, 03:56 AM - Thread Starter
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post #635 of 930 Old 07-03-2008, 03:57 AM - Thread Starter
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post #636 of 930 Old 07-03-2008, 05:21 AM
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Wasnt Spartacus also shoot in 35mm and blownup to 70mm?
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post #637 of 930 Old 07-03-2008, 06:09 AM
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Per definition one could call Spartacus a BlowUp but it was shot in the large format process Super Technirama 70, which is horizontal 8 perf 35mm. It has about 2 1/2 times as much negative area as anamorphic 35mm and nearly 4 times as much as Super 35. So it is a true large format process but it is photographed and printed with a 1.5 anamorphic squeeze/unsqueeze.

Apart from Vistavision, which was not intended for very wide screens, Technirama and later Super Technirama 70 were the most common large format processes.
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post #638 of 930 Old 07-03-2008, 07:26 PM
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Look at the cartridges on the back of Patton's belt.

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post #639 of 930 Old 07-03-2008, 08:22 PM
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My heart sank when I saw this topic as I am new to Blu Ray and truly thought the days of double dipping for a more accurate rendering of the a given picture were over. My question is, why would Fox or any studio digitally manipulate the picture with the apparent goal of making more pleasing eye candy when in fact the end result is (if i'm reading all of this correctly) that there is less detail? This makes no sense to me. (And as an aside, I can't conceive of even MORE detail in this particular picture--you can see the razor bumps on George C. Scott's neck for goodness' sake.)
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post #640 of 930 Old 07-04-2008, 03:56 AM - Thread Starter
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post #641 of 930 Old 07-04-2008, 03:56 AM - Thread Starter
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post #642 of 930 Old 07-04-2008, 03:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Pilot View Post

I watched Patton in Blu Ray as soon as it was released (front projection - 120inch screen) and was delighted with the transfer. I admit I will give the engineers a break when dealing with a very old film. Obviously, there is only so much they can do. But, if anyone is interested in this movie, rest assured the Blu Ray version will simply blow your mind. The transfer is truly excellent. Sound quality was a bit less than I had hoped for but nevertheless was excellent,


Aside from this slight technical glitch...this is an excellent film and the transfer to blu ray lets you enjoy it.

Marcus



Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Cordingley View Post

I agree completely. On my 100" 1080 screen, it looked fabulous. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

There is NO DNR smearing, no edge enhancement, so posterisation, no banding, no compression artefacting. I rate it as one of the finest presentations I've seen.


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post #643 of 930 Old 07-04-2008, 07:02 AM
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You're piling on now Xylon. Really the DVD has as much or more detail in that example.

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post #644 of 930 Old 07-04-2008, 07:07 AM
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It's a real shame they had to ruin it with the filtering. The colors and contrast look really nice but this is not HD. There's no textures, no depth, everything looks flat and rendered. Beowulf and Final Fantasy have more life than this manniquin freak show.
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post #645 of 930 Old 07-04-2008, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Future Man View Post

...when in fact the end result is (if i'm reading all of this correctly) that there is less detail?

Less detail compared to something that hasn't been released on home video so far (i.e. a non-DNR'd Blu-ray or HD broadcast).

As flawed as this transfer is, IMHO it is a substantial leap over all previous video releases of Patton. But the point is, it could have been a *quantum* leap, and for many, the finely scrubbed linoleum floor look is as distracting, if not moreso, than the mosquito noise and other negative aspects of the DVDs.

In the last screen cap comparisons on this page posted by the great Xylon, you can clearly see specks of lint in the first and second rows of uncovered stars - between the third and forth stars (counting from bottom-left to top-right). Compare that to the DVD screen caps.
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post #646 of 930 Old 07-04-2008, 07:59 AM
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Just watched this last night on a 102" screen (Marantz 15S1 projector). Big disappointment. The big problem isn't the absence of grain per se, it's the baby they threw out with the bathwater. The image lacks the you-are-there quality of the great transfers where you see the pores in the actors' skin. You get the wax museum version instead of the real thing.
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post #647 of 930 Old 07-04-2008, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flexx View Post

As flawed as this transfer is, IMHO it is a substantial leap over all previous video releases of Patton. But the point is, it could have been a *quantum* leap, and for many, the finely scrubbed linoleum floor look is as distracting, if not moreso, than the mosquito noise and other negative aspects of the DVDs.

The DVD and HD look both bad in their own ways. We should not have to chose between Lucifer and Belzebub.
If I have to chose I take the HD and sit farther away than usual so I see only ~480p detail. Then it should look really nice.
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post #648 of 930 Old 07-04-2008, 06:03 PM
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I was checking the guide on my HD PVR when I noticed Patton was on in HD. I watched it for a few minutes and I swear it doesn't look anything like the waxy BD shots I see in this post...there seems to be natural "film grain" in the image as well as that jittery type grain that I've sometimes seen in older films (Sorry I'm not an expert when it comes to how film looks). I immediately hit the record button (it was about 50 minutes in already) so I could compare it with the BD images.

I just wish I had an HD capture card on my PC so I could upload captures of it from my PVR (the firewire out on the box is disabled). I'll still report back once I've looked over both and compared them. I'm wondering if the Patton MPEG2 master was DNR'ed when they converted it to MPEG4...that would mean they may still have the MPEG2 master lying around.

BTW I'll be comparing them on a 106" screen so unless I'm blind I'll probably see a difference if there is any.
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post #649 of 930 Old 07-04-2008, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyricardo View Post

I was checking the guide on my HD PVR when I noticed Patton was on in HD. I watched it for a few minutes and I swear it doesn't look anything like the waxy BD shots I see in this post...there seems to be natural "film grain" in the image as well as that jittery type grain that I've sometimes seen in older films (Sorry I'm not an expert when it comes to how film looks). I immediately hit the record button (it was about 50 minutes in already) so I could compare it with the BD images.

I just wish I had an HD capture card on my PC so I could upload captures of it from my PVR (the firewire out on the box is disabled). I'll still report back once I've looked over both and compared them. I'm wondering if the Patton MPEG2 master was DNR'ed when they converted it to MPEG4...that would mean they may still have the MPEG2 master lying around.

BTW I'll be comparing them on a 106" screen so unless I'm blind I'll probably see a difference if there is any.

What channel? Perhaps there will be repeat showings.
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post #650 of 930 Old 07-04-2008, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
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post #651 of 930 Old 07-04-2008, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
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woah, they had botox back then?!?!?

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post #652 of 930 Old 07-04-2008, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

What channel? Perhaps there will be repeat showings.

It's actually in Canada on Moviepix HD. I'll have to check to see if it airs again in case a another fellow Canadian has the ability to capture some pics.
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post #653 of 930 Old 07-05-2008, 01:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyricardo View Post

It's actually in Canada on Moviepix HD. I'll have to check to see if it airs again in case a another fellow Canadian has the ability to capture some pics.

Yes please. I like to see that.
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post #654 of 930 Old 07-05-2008, 02:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

I have seen the 70mm showing with all of its glory.

I hope it did not look too awful - it is a 38 year old movie after all
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post #655 of 930 Old 07-05-2008, 08:11 AM
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While, I'm sure a good deal of high frequency information is lost, one cannot say that it isn't a great looking transfer, that is a huge improvement over past releases.
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post #656 of 930 Old 07-05-2008, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

Yes please. I like to see that.

The stupid guide on my PVR only has a weeks worth of info but I checked the online schedule a they will be showing it on the 17th and 26th. I'm not exactly sure if it will be in HD again since they sometimes just show it on their SD channel instead.

I recall seeing some sort of HD capture box at my local Costco so I'll have to see if they still have it. I may be able to temporarily buy and then return it later...Costco gets enough money from me anyways.
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post #657 of 930 Old 07-05-2008, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post


Hey! I've seen this movie! A Scanner Darkly right?

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post #658 of 930 Old 07-06-2008, 06:59 AM
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Xylon, can I suggest one more Patton screen shot that will really hammer home the negative effects of DNR on this title?

At time code 11:59 there's a wide shot of the battlefield. There's a dog in the center left that tries to leap forward but is restrained in mid air. It looks very strange. Why did that dog's motion stop? In the following close-up shot you can see that the dog is tethered by a leash, but in the wide shot the leash has been virtually erased by the DNR. I guarantee you that the leash would have been visible in a 70mm print.

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post #659 of 930 Old 07-06-2008, 11:43 AM
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Redundant posts removed.

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

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post #660 of 930 Old 07-06-2008, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Xylon, can I suggest one more Patton screen shot that will really hammer home the negative effects of DNR on this title?

I don't think additional shots will make any difference in this discussion. There are already a plethora of them in this topic.

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