"Despicable" Patton comparison *PIX* - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

That is exactly what makes this thread hysterical. DNR is bad but artificially sharpening and adding grain in photoshop is met with drooling praise?

There is no more actual detail in the photo shopped pics. This leads me to believe some of you just prefer grain even if it doesn't actually give you more details.

Who is praising the Photoshopped image? That is just insulting. Have you seen the 70mm version? If you have the chance go see it. Then come back here and share your experience.

Its there to show what could've have been. I even put a disclaimer. The BD version is like some kid's plastic toy soldiers posed and re-animated to re-enact the movie Patton!
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post #182 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow View Post

Oh, okay so you care more than I. That's your opinion.

My opinion is that if you cared so much why did you buy all those less than perfect titles? I assume the answer is you love movies and will take whatever looks best in the home. Kinda like Patton BD.

Therein lies the problem and i'm sure many are being bought blind. One can like the content of the movie and that should be the main reason for purchase BUT just like SACD, audiophile vinyl, etc etc., one best be focusing on the quality before pulling the trigger.
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post #183 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragar01 View Post

Is it just me or does the original dvd release look more detailed than the rest of the samples? I think I'll stick with my laserdisc.
Someone wake me when Fox remasters this film the right way please.
Gary

That's the first thing I noticed, too. Look at Xylon's shot of his saluting hand. The DVD actually has more detail than the BD!

Doug
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post #184 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

That is exactly what makes this thread hysterical. DNR is bad but artificially sharpening and adding grain in photoshop is met with drooling praise?

There is no more actual detail in the photo shopped pics. This leads me to believe some of you just prefer grain even if it doesn't actually give you more details.

The first comment is just false, where is the drooling praise ?

The second comment is easy to explain, the DNRed image looks so false, so plastic that even adding false grain made it look more natural despite there being no added detail.

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post #185 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 06:26 AM
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This version of Patton is region code A and as I have said before maybe we will all get lucky and Fox will release a version without DNR and EE that can be used with all BR players.

Until then I suggest to keep an eye on this site for the next showing of Patton in 70mm:
http://www.in70mm.com/now_showing/index.htm
There is no screening of Patton announced at the moment, the movies that get screened the most seem to be Lawrence of Arabia and 2001.
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post #186 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

Yes. I used smart sharpening and grain to highlight the difference and see what could have been. The settings are a tad bit over exaggerated of course to show the contrast between the pictures.

But this time I replaced the pictures with a more conservative setting at 1% with no sharpening applied. This is much more pleasing to my eye. Anyways in most scenes EE is also originally present so it will take care of the artificial sharpening

Remember I am just speculating what level of graininess is actually on the transfer and I am not even factoring in the lost details caused by DNR. If only someone can go into the vaults and get just one digital frame grab of the non DNR & non EE copy this "good enough" nonsense can stop.

I tell you Rob as a movie lover what they did to Patton is a travesty. Lawrence of Arabia better not get this kind of "dumbing down". Agree?

Thanks Xylon.

Re Lawrence, Robert Harris made a post recently indicating that he expects Lawrence to come out nearly perfect based on what he knows. He obviously didn't find that to be the case with Patton.

One thing I found interesting in your screen grabs is how much more noticeable the EE is. I did notice EE on my screen, but it didn't look nearly as bad/obtrusive as it does here.
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post #187 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 08:11 AM
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I have not personally seen this on BD yet, but the reviews I've read indicate that the opening scene is the worst part for EE and DNR. Nothing like starting off on the wrong foot, eh?

Are the Stars within stars SUPPOSED to be there? For the life of me I can't remember seeing them in the theater. Would any of you noticed that if you couldn't pause or screen cap it? Sure you'd probably get a nagging suspicion that something isn't quite right, but I doubt very many people would notice that without a screen cap.

Just goes to show that just because it's fleeting on the screen, does not mean it's excluded from Xylon's microscope.

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post #188 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 08:14 AM
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I'm so conflicted on whether or not to purchase this one.
I've never seen Patton (blashphemy! I know...), and want to see it in the best possible form (currently BD, since there are no 70mm showings in my area). But I don't want to support the use of EE and DNR as displayed in this thread.

grr...
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post #189 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 08:19 AM
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Depriving yourself, SomethingMore, isn't worth not at least viewing the movie for its content. Rent it at least.
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post #190 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 08:23 AM
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I watched this "Despicable" Blu-ray again yesterday. I must have been drunk since I thoroughly enjoyed it again and thought it looked and sounded great again.
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post #191 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lasvidfil View Post

I'll say it again since this doesn't seem to go away. Patton looks fantastic! I don't miss the grain at all. Stick with your lower quality dvd's and i'll enjoy my Blu-Ray.

Agreed.

I've watched the movie TWICE now on Blu-Ray and I'm with the reviewers, it is a fantastic looking film. The DVD pictures just show how poor it looks in comparison. It is blurry, noisy, and just screaming "low-res".

You guys are being a bit nit-picky, but to each his own.

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post #192 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 08:54 AM
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I'm with Art, it's obvious from the pic with the flag, look at the halos the stars have. I don't know why Fox did this, they actually have a decent track record on over-processing film up to this point, so it's confusing. Did it get farmed out to a processing facility that was over-aggressive??

Having said that, I'm still giving in to the big bad studio and purchasing this movie as well as Longest Day and Pebbles, I just can't do without them.

-Josh Murrah
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post #193 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 08:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulidan View Post

Gotta add that I just don't buy the 'it's new tech...these will all get much better in time, just like DVD did.'

OK than....how bout tech improvements in hardware as well? I've had ALL the formats from BetaMax through Blu-ray and without exception, we all witnessed dramatic improvements in PQ/AQ as the result of improvements in software encoding and hardware display technology over the years.
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post #194 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 08:59 AM
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The whole point is it could have been lots better.

Time to close the thread IMHO as we already have discussions in others beforehand. When replies come back from insiders or the studio, I'd be quite interested.
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post #195 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 09:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

I tell you Rob as a movie lover what they did to Patton is a travesty. Lawrence of Arabia better not get this kind of "dumbing down". Agree?

"Movie lover" indeed!!!

I'll tell you why I consider myself a 'movie lover." For the past 50 years I've attended, on average, as least one movie per week. I have a dedicated home theater with over 500 SD DVD, a few Blu-ray/HD-DVD discs and a DBS HD-DVR hookup as well as VHS and Laserdisc players. I consider myself a "movie lover" in the extreme and yet I'm happy to have added to my stored HD collection on HDD Lawrence of Arabia which hasn't looked this good since I saw it in the theaters over 40 years ago. I will buy Patton probably over a sale because it looks tons better than the SD DVD.

You see these 2 films as a "travesty," I see them as never having looked so damn good. Whose the "movie lover?"
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post #196 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertc88 View Post

The whole point is it could have been lots better.

Doesn't that describe just about any release?
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post #197 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 09:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertc88 View Post

The whole point is it could have been lots better.

Time to close the thread IMHO as we already have discussions in others beforehand. When replies come back from insiders or the studio, I'd be quite interested.

Your point maybe....my point is the BD looks to be tons better than the SD DVD. So enjoy. I'm sure Patton will get another release in.... say 10 years. Maybe that one will satisfy you purists.
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post #198 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDarrylR View Post

Doesn't that describe just about any release?

Sure. But given the limits of BRD, some movies come closer to achieving an accurate REPRODUCTION than others, and many members of this forum enjoy discussing the accuracy and transparency of various encodes. There is a wide margin of difference between No Country for Old Men (on the positive side) and the original encode of Full Metal Jacket (on the negative side), and within this margin there is a LOT to talk about.
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post #199 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by louigi222 View Post

Your point maybe....

Not merely *his* point, but the point of the thread in which you are posting is that the integrity of the transfer has been compromised by excessive DNR.

Quote:


my point is the BD looks to be tons better than the SD DVD.

okay...

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So enjoy. I'm sure Patton will get another release in.... say 10 years. Maybe that one will satisfy you purists.

Cute.
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post #200 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 10:05 AM
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I find that I tend to get caught up in the movie and, after a brief period of adjustment in the beginning (Blu-Ray or DVD), minor issues don't stand out to me. How one watches a movie like Patton and focuses on relatively minor issues of transfer quality rather than the movie istelf is a mystery to me. My thought was that the movie looked better than I've ever seen and the detail was far far better than the DVD.
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post #201 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 10:10 AM
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Can we agree on this?

This movie could have looked better.
There is no defendable reason for it to not look better.
Its the best version you can get today.

I want my grain region free.
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post #202 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

Can we agree on this?

This movie could have looked better.
There is no defendable reason for it to not look better.
Its the best version you can get today.

Yes.

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post #203 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

Can we agree on this?

This movie could have looked better.
There is no defendable reason for it to not look better.
Its the best version you can get today.

To carry it further:

1) Keep it if you like it.
2) Sell it if you don't

I would not pass any judgment personally though but I didn't particularly care for the opening of this thread in the possiblity of separating folks based upon their feelings are for this title. Men versus boys?
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post #204 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertc88 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

Can we agree on this?

This movie could have looked better.
There is no defendable reason for it to not look better.
Its the best version you can get today.


To carry it further:

1) Keep it if you like it.
2) Sell it if you don't

A perfect summary of the situation. It looks great on Blu-ray as is but could have been even better.
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post #205 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 10:53 AM
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Apparently there are no 70mm theaters on the east coast. I have to go to California, the midwest, or Europe to see a 70mm movie? And I can't see one in NY or DC?
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post #206 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

Can we agree on this?

This movie could have looked better.
There is no defendable reason for it to not look better.
Its the best version you can get today.

Thats a realistic summery.

For those who say they are happy with this transfer you should promote those who care about PQ and point out weak transfers. Some day you will benefit from their efforts. In the meantime enjoy your movies but I see no need to interfere with progress. If no one pressed for better PQ the studios would still be sitting on DVD.
By all means keep the threads coming pointing out weak transfers. After all HD is all about PQ. I hope we see the use of EE and NR come to an end, after all DVD quality plopped on HD media does not make it HD.
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post #207 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDarrylR View Post

A perfect summary of the situation. It looks great on Blu-ray as is but could have been even better.

I agree with the three-line summary.

I do not agree that it looks "great." I think it looks terrible. Not just by comparison with BDs like "The Sand Pebbles" which do look great, but on an absolute scale. The processing has given the movie an artificial, plastic look that is impossible to ignore.

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post #208 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

I agree with the three-line summary.

I do not agree that it looks "great." I think it looks terrible. Not just by comparison with BDs like "The Sand Pebbles" which do look great, but on an absolute scale. The processing has given the movie an artificial, plastic look that is impossible to ignore.

I agree , it does not look great.

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post #209 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 11:33 AM
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Guess folks need to see The Professional, Broken Trail, and Sand Pebbles to name a few.
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post #210 of 930 Old 06-16-2008, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webdev511 View Post

Just goes to show that just because it's fleeting on the screen, does not mean it's excluded from Xylon's microscope.

"For over a thousand years Roman conquerors returning from the wars enjoyed the honor of triumph, a tumultuous parade. In the procession came trumpeteers, musicians and strange animals from conquered territories, together with carts laden with treasure and captured armaments. The conquerors rode in a triumphal chariot, the dazed prisoners walking in chains before him. Sometimes his children robed in white stood with him in the chariot or rode the trace horses. A slave stood behind the conqueror holding a golden crown and whispering in his ear a warning: that all glory is fleeting."
- Gen. George S. Patton, from the movie Patton

thanks for the pics Xylon.

chris
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