The Godfather Trilogy - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 650 Old 09-17-2008, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

But is that viewing the restored prints on 35mm or the OG prints ?

Did you not understand "newly restored 35mm prints", or are you just being flip and contrary for some unknown reason?

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post #362 of 650 Old 09-17-2008, 05:27 PM
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Just to clarify: When I said that a Paramount transfer engineer told me the DVDs looked exactly like the original prints, that was in 2001. I agreed with the engineer, but it's because at the time I thought the prints had deteriorted. Apparently so did Coppola and Paramount, which is why we now have the "Coppola Restoration."

Note, too, that the folks at Paramount go out of their way in their promtional materials to say that only the first two "Godfather" films were "restored." The third film, apparently in better shape, was only "remastered."

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post #363 of 650 Old 09-17-2008, 06:21 PM
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Any idea which online retailer or B&M has the cheapest pre-order price?

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post #364 of 650 Old 09-17-2008, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...7-post149.html



It's fine to discuss. The evidence is the Blu-ray fully represents the filmmaker's intent, therefore, if you have a problem with the color, then take it up with the filmmaker of what you think his film should look like. To suggest or imply a screw-up with the BD color timing because in your opinion it doesn't mimic your "real world" (which no film does, nor is necessarily intended) seems mistaken.

That link is to a post regarding the restoration. So far all signs indicate the first two films were restored and not III, so that doesn't even apply. Everything I've seen of the first two films thus far show the restoration work was excellent indeed.

For you to suggest I'm mistaken isn't really warranted. The DVD version of the remaster is very different than the BD. So everybody's explanation that the remastered version of III is accurate does not reconcile logically. It also doesn't reconcile with the comments before about the restored prints, since III is the one that was not restored and is the one with the drastic changes. It's very possible that the caps were indeed taken incorrectly. If so, then obviously the BD caps are wacked, and that should be acknowledged. If not, then there is some other answer for it which can either be explored or ignored. If you choose to ignore it that's fine.

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post #365 of 650 Old 09-17-2008, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lodolfan View Post

Any idea which online retailer or B&M has the cheapest pre-order price?

Tower has the cheapest I've seen - $59.86 w/free shipping:

http://www.tower.com/details/details.cfm?wapi=112275645

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post #366 of 650 Old 09-17-2008, 07:00 PM
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My Tower.com order just shipped a few hours ago. I chose priority shipping (2-4 business days, USPS), so that brought the total to $64.85. Still a good price ($21.61 a film) Hopefully, I will get it by Saturday -- I'm in S. California. If so, Saturday night is gonna be "Godfather Movie Night" on my PS3/front projector.

Thanks LBFilmGuy from giving us the heads up!
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post #367 of 650 Old 09-17-2008, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

That link is to a post regarding the restoration. So far all signs indicate the first two films were restored and not III, so that doesn't even apply. Everything I've seen of the first two films thus far show the restoration work was excellent indeed.

For you to suggest I'm mistaken isn't really warranted. The DVD version of the remaster is very different than the BD. So everybody's explanation that the remastered version of III is accurate does not reconcile logically. It also doesn't reconcile with the comments before about the restored prints, since III is the one that was not restored and is the one with the drastic changes. It's very possible that the caps were indeed taken incorrectly. If so, then obviously the BD caps are wacked, and that should be acknowledged. If not, then there is some other answer for it which can either be explored or ignored. If you choose to ignore it that's fine.

Brandon

All Godfather films underwent restoration work. The first two movies were obviously in far worse shape as has been reported. Given the amount of effort and resources that went into this release. It's HIGHLY unlikely there was a screw-up. I'm not basing anything on the screenshots.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/3397028-post24.html

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post #368 of 650 Old 09-17-2008, 07:41 PM
 
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My copy arrived today. Haven't watched it yet. Haven't even opened the shipping box yet. Will open the box soon. Anyone want unboxing photos?
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post #369 of 650 Old 09-17-2008, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDad View Post

Tower has the cheapest I've seen - $59.86 w/free shipping:

http://www.tower.com/details/details.cfm?wapi=112275645

Thanks BigDad!!

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post #370 of 650 Old 09-17-2008, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

That seems to make sense if indeed true.

There's a very simple way to find out. Somebody here can post caps of the same frames used in DVDbeaver's review.

House, are you up for it?

Brandon

This isn't the exact same shot as the DVDBeaver one you linked, but it's the same scene;





Doesn't seem to be any major difference, and of course it's not the same frame but even then... my shot was taken with BT709 btw so can probably rule out the 601 theory.
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post #371 of 650 Old 09-17-2008, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

All Godfather films underwent restoration work. The first two movies were obviously in far worse shape as has been reported. Given the amount of effort and resources that went into this release. It's HIGHLY unlikely there was a screw-up. I'm not basing anything on the screenshots.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/3397028-post24.html

That post doesn't say all were restored, and in other posts it is suggested that only the first two were. And in his last post on the subject he specifically mentions the first two and says nothing about the third.

Nevertheless, it doesn't matter much to me. Thanks for the screencap, House.

Edit: this is from an article regarding the restoration:

Quote:
After working through The Godfather and Part II, the team turned to the much more recent Part III (1990), which required no restoration at all; they did a digital intermediate (DI) to create the director’s cut, a version that previously existed only on home video. For all three films, there are now new 4K preservation negatives, separation masters from which new printing elements can be derived, and backup data tapes

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post #372 of 650 Old 09-17-2008, 08:10 PM
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Excellent mine has just been shipped. Can't wait

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post #373 of 650 Old 09-17-2008, 08:18 PM
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As far as I am concerned, I and II look and sound sensational and III looks pretty darn good as well.

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post #374 of 650 Old 09-17-2008, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

That post doesn't say all were restored, and in other posts it is suggested that only the first two were. And in his last post on the subject he specifically mentions the first two and says nothing about the third.


In that HTF post, Harris specifically says "Godfather(s)" obviously implying all Godfather movies hence the plural ("s"). He also said "...the entire system of WB's MPI facility never fell below 4k." I don't think it can be more obvious that ALL three movies were restored to whatever degree was necessary. Do you really think they are just going to forget about getting the third movie up to par?



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Nevertheless, it doesn't matter much to me.

Evidently. Are you still convinced Godfather III color is screwed up based on someone's screen shots instead of the monumental amount of evidence that ALL three of the movies were handled properly?

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post #375 of 650 Old 09-17-2008, 10:12 PM
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Not impressed with Godfather III screenshots. The black levels and contrast seems to slightly weak. Will put my order on hold for time being.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #376 of 650 Old 09-17-2008, 10:21 PM
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lgans - do you think it will be re-released?

this is the best it's gonna look for years is it not? if ever?
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post #377 of 650 Old 09-17-2008, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

In that HTF post, Harris specifically says "Godfather(s)" obviously implying all Godfather movies hence the plural ("s"). He also said "...the entire system of WB's MPI facility never fell below 4k." I don't think it can be more obvious that ALL three movies were restored to whatever degree was necessary. Do you really think they are just going to forget about getting the third movie up to par?

lol, it couldn't be more obvious? "Godfather(s)" does not "obviously" imply that all Godfather movies was restored. By definition something being pluralized just means there is more than one, it does not mean every nor all.

If only I and II are restored, then "Godfather(s)" is still completely correct. Harris specifically mentions I & II were confirmed by the originally approved and surviving dye transfer prints respectively, while saying nothing of III. The promotional materials say I & II were restored and III was remasered. And of course the article clearly states that III was specifically not restored. I've nearly read through that entire thread by now, but if there is a post somewhere that says something different, feel free to point it out. But everything so far has suggested or specifically stated otherwise, and it doesn't take a genius to read it.

Quote:


Evidently. Are you still convinced Godfather III color is screwed up based on someone's screen shots instead of the monumental amount of evidence that ALL three of the movies were handled properly?

Why even bother responding if all you're going to do is misprepresent the discussion and put words in my mouth? "Monumental"...funny.

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post #378 of 650 Old 09-17-2008, 11:09 PM
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Peter Bracke's review, for those that are interested: http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/1613...ollection.html

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post #379 of 650 Old 09-17-2008, 11:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

While I can clearly see the extra detail, I'm not liking the red push. The color timing change is even more drastic than the SD DVD version.



The SD DVD looks to have a more orangeish-yellow push compared to the BD. Both are pretty big changes from the prior release. The cake-cutting cap is the most telling.

Brandon


From the (very interesting) article you referenced:

In his conversations with the restoration team, Willis emphasized that the most important visual aspect of The Godfather was its color structure. “It’s yellow-red in much of the lighting as well as the lab work, and that ties all three films together,” says Willis. “So my main concern was to get the color right.” Harris was able to track down original dye-transfer prints of The Godfather, and one of them, from the Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences’ Technicolor collection, was screened for Willis, who determined it to be an accurate color reference.

“When we turned to creating the director’s cut of Part III, which had a Super 35 negative, we had to conform to video,” he adds. While Harris and Yarbrough were finishing up Part II, colorist Ray Grabowski started the digital grade on Part III in another room at MPI, with Bob Raring, the film’s original color timer at Technicolor, providing some guidance.
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post #380 of 650 Old 09-17-2008, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

lol, it couldn't be more obvious? "Godfather(s)" does not "obviously" imply that all Godfather movies was restored. By definition something being pluralized just means there is more than one, it does not mean every nor all.

It was obvious Harris was referring to all three movies. Again,"..the entire system of WB's MPI facility never fell below 4k." Do you honestly think they are going to screw up or not support the third movie?

Quote:


If only I and II are restored, then "Godfather(s)" is still completely correct. Harris specifically mentions I & II were confirmed by the originally approved and surviving dye transfer prints respectively, while saying nothing of III. The promotional materials say I & II were restored and III was remasered. And of course the article clearly states that III was specifically not restored. I've nearly read through that entire thread by now, but if there is a post somewhere that says something different, feel free to point it out. But everything so far has suggested or specifically stated otherwise, and it doesn't take a genius to read it.


Quote:


Why even bother responding if all you're going to do is misprepresent the discussion and put words in my mouth? "Monumental"...funny.

Brandon

Either way, all three movies received optimal treatment including from one of the greatest film restoration experts; in addition, it was approved by the filmmakers whether they were "restored" or "remastered". All you are doing now is playing a "gotcha" game with me and you're the one who is funny thinking you know how these movies should look based on Internet screenshots and the SD DVD. Now THAT is funny!

Sorry, but I'll take Robert Harris', FFC, and Willis' word over yours.

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post #381 of 650 Old 09-18-2008, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeb View Post

From the (very interesting) article you referenced:

In his conversations with the restoration team, Willis emphasized that the most important visual aspect of The Godfather was its color structure. “It’s yellow-red in much of the lighting as well as the lab work, and that ties all three films together,” says Willis. “So my main concern was to get the color right.” Harris was able to track down original dye-transfer prints of The Godfather, and one of them, from the Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences’ Technicolor collection, was screened for Willis, who determined it to be an accurate color reference.

“When we turned to creating the director’s cut of Part III, which had a Super 35 negative, we had to conform to video,” he adds. While Harris and Yarbrough were finishing up Part II, colorist Ray Grabowski started the digital grade on Part III in another room at MPI, with Bob Raring, the film’s original color timer at Technicolor, providing some guidance.

Yup, I read that. The article is very good. Did you note the paragraph right after that discussing how the contrast on all three movies is supposed to have the same tone and style? It goes on later to explain why III had differences in the dye transfer process which resulted in differences in contrast and color saturation that couldn't match the first two. Changes were made with controls in the DI Suite while Harris was finished up part II to try and get them to better match the first two films. A lot of interesting stuff in there.

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post #382 of 650 Old 09-18-2008, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Either way, all three movies received optimal treatment including from one of the greatest film restoration experts; in addition, it was approved by the filmmakers whether they were "restored" or "remastered". All you are doing now is playing a "gotcha" game with me and you're the one who is funny thinking you know how these movies should look based on Internet screenshots and the SD DVD. Now THAT is funny!

The SD DVD is based off the same restored/remastered digital master as the Blu-ray. Even with the color-space differences the actual color differences shouldn't be as drastic as they are.

Maybe the SD DVD is way it's supposed to look, color-wise. It does say Coppola restoration on the box regardless of the resolution. Check any DVD vs HD comparison and the color differences are never as noticeable as they are with GFIII.
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post #383 of 650 Old 09-18-2008, 01:28 AM
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http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare/godfather3.htm

Godfather - III - The Blu-ray is way too dark. Looks like the technicians overworked on the first 2 parts and left the 3rd one to suffer from weak contrast and black/gamma levels.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #384 of 650 Old 09-18-2008, 01:42 AM
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Love the BD image but not so crazy about the unnatural (in my eyes) BD color temps. Was Coppolla indulging in too much of his wine when going through the BD color process?
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post #385 of 650 Old 09-18-2008, 03:06 AM
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The new Blu-ray/SD-DVD look awful.

All I can say is that they totally screwed up the contrast and color timing on these new disks.

All the warmth is now gone, and the dark atmosphere that we all know and love has been stripped away.
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post #386 of 650 Old 09-18-2008, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhoq View Post

Canceled my Amazon order as well (9/29/08 estiamted ship date) and ordered at Tower. I've been ordering from them for a few weeks now have never waited more than 4 days for a Blu-ray order to arrive once I've received shipping confirmation.



Believe it. Tower.com rocks! They ship as soon as stock arrives at their warehouse(s).

Hi Rhoq: My copy still hasn't shipped. I guess the people at Tower figured everything out so it is extremely likely that they will ship at Release Date of Tuesday September 23rd. At least I saved one measly $ vs. Amazon. Oh well!
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post #387 of 650 Old 09-18-2008, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emgesp View Post

The new Blu-ray/SD-DVD look awful.

All I can say is that they totally screwed up the contrast and color timing on these new disks.

All the warmth is now gone, and the dark atmosphere that we all know and love has been stripped away.

Wow....Welcome to Wrongsville--Population: You.

Is no one actually reading the thread before posting?

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post #388 of 650 Old 09-18-2008, 06:54 AM
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I still can't wait to get my set. We will have to have a Godfather marathon!

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post #389 of 650 Old 09-18-2008, 06:59 AM
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I still can't wait to get my set. We will have to have a Godfather marathon!

Agree, though mine is coming next week.

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post #390 of 650 Old 09-18-2008, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmonkeee View Post

Is no one actually reading the thread before posting?

In addition, I'm trying to figure out how people are judging the films by screencaps...Video cards/monitors, etc. also have an effect on the display. Unless everybody but me has a copy of the films, I would suggest witholding judgment until actually viewing the film for yourself.
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