The Godfather Trilogy - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 650 Old 04-05-2012, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post


I understand that, but the IB prints always looked different to release prints and other masters right or wrong, Willis signed off from memory that they were correct this is a choice based on memory.
That will be my last mention on this matter as I am getting sick of the sound of my own voice.

The IB prints *were* release prints. I ran one about 2 years ago of G1 and it was the best print I'd ever seen of the film in terms of color and lighting. The BD looks as close to that as possible.

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post #632 of 650 Old 04-05-2012, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

I understand that, but the IB prints always looked different to release prints and other masters right or wrong, Willis signed off from memory that they were correct this is a choice based on memory.
That will be my last mention on this matter as I am getting sick of the sound of my own voice.

Forgive me for jumping in here, but one fact needs to be made clear, and I believe this was what Mr. Pereira was trying in say.

Our reference were dye transfer prints stored at the Academy from the Technicolor reference collection. These prints carried the signature of Mr. Willis dated 1972 and 1974. Mr. Willis was kind enough to screen the 1972 print with cinematographer Allen Daviau at his side, to confirm the print as consummate reference.

Nothing was left to memory.

Memory is of little value, when it comes to the complexities of color and density.

RAH
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post #633 of 650 Old 04-05-2012, 05:12 PM
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A quick question for Robert Harris:
I know that Blu-ray encodes the "detail" of an image in the luminance channel and color in a separate chroma channel, with the chroma channel at a much lower resolution due to the eye's poor sensitivity to color resolution. Has anyone tried to do something similar with a film restoration, where a faded original negative provides the detail, but the color information is sourced from an IB print?
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post #634 of 650 Old 04-05-2012, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris View Post

Forgive me for jumping in here, but one fact needs to be made clear, and I believe this was what Mr. Pereira was trying in say.

Our reference were dry transfer prints stored at the Academy from the Technicolor reference collection. These prints carried the signature of Mr. Willis dated 1972 and 1974. Mr. Willis was kind enough to screen the 1972 print with cinematographer Allen Daviau at his side, to confirm the print as consummate reference.

Nothing was left to memory.

Memory is of little value, when it comes to the complexities of color and density.

RAH

Robert...quick question: did you have anything to do with the Saga restoration on AMC? If not, do you know who did/how it was done?

"I have never seen it, but by all accounts it is terrible. However, I have seen the house that it built, and it is terrific." - Michael Caine, on Jaws the Revenge
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post #635 of 650 Old 04-05-2012, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

A quick question for Robert Harris:
I know that Blu-ray encodes the "detail" of an image in the luminance channel and color in a separate chroma channel, with the chroma channel at a much lower resolution due to the eye's poor sensitivity to color resolution. Has anyone tried to do something similar with a film restoration, where a faded original negative provides the detail, but the color information is sourced from an IB print?

I have. Fully.

RAH
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post #636 of 650 Old 04-05-2012, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by DigitalfreakNYC View Post

Robert...quick question: did you have anything to do with the Saga restoration on AMC? If not, do you know who did/how it was done?

The saga elements really didn't need restoration, per se. The elements merely needed to be scanned and colored. Nothing on this was performed during our work.

RAH
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post #637 of 650 Old 04-05-2012, 05:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris View Post

Forgive me for jumping in here, but one fact needs to be made clear, and I believe this was what Mr. Pereira was trying in say.

Our reference were dry transfer prints stored at the Academy from the Technicolor reference collection. These prints carried the signature of Mr. Willis dated 1972 and 1974. Mr. Willis was kind enough to screen the 1972 print with cinematographer Allen Daviau at his side, to confirm the print as consummate reference.

Nothing was left to memory.

Memory is of little value, when it comes to the complexities of color and density.

RAH

Sorry, you're not going to convince anyone - they will either ignore this post or just willfully not accept the information contained therein. Personal preference is not the point, will never be the point, and is extremely silly. The ONLY point is how was the film shot, how was it approved by its DP and director, etc. That is the ONLY look that is acceptable. What some home theater enthusiast and expert prefers is the height of something or other - if one prefers some other look to the one that the director and cameraman delivered, then one should only buy films with that look or, better yet, go out and make their own film with that look.

I don't know why it's so hard to understand what Mr. Harris is saying here: An IB Tech reference print was used for the timing. No guesswork, no memory, an actual print from the original release. But I suppose it's easier to disappear rather than acknowledge (even begrudgingly) that what the man who DID the restoration is telling you - which is that this Blu-ray looks as it should look. And from what I can tell, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the person to whom Mr. Harris is responding hasn't even purchased and seen the Blu-ray disc, but is basing his comments on - screen caps? Or am I wrong there? Anyway, it would be truly nice if that poster came back and acknowledged Mr. Harris' factual and correct information. I'll check back in a few years to see if that happened
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post #638 of 650 Old 04-05-2012, 05:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris View Post

Forgive me for jumping in here, but one fact needs to be made clear, and I believe this was what Mr. Pereira was trying in say.

Our reference were dry transfer prints stored at the Academy from the Technicolor reference collection. These prints carried the signature of Mr. Willis dated 1972 and 1974. Mr. Willis was kind enough to screen the 1972 print with cinematographer Allen Daviau at his side, to confirm the print as consummate reference.

Nothing was left to memory.

Memory is of little value, when it comes to the complexities of color and density.

RAH

The IB prints always look different correct?
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post #639 of 650 Old 04-05-2012, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

The IB prints always look different correct?

No. Generally different runs can have small differences. Problems would occur as matrices would wear out. Later re-issues, especially in the early '70s could be problematic as standards declined.

We do not use a production print. There is, literally, one final approved answer print that will have attached cards signed by DP and / or director. This print is preserved as a basis for all future printings, and that -- specifically -- is what we used. These prints are not fit for distribution and have a sole purpose as reference.

RAH
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post #640 of 650 Old 04-05-2012, 06:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris View Post

No. Generally different runs can have small differences. Problems would occur as matrices would wear out. Later re-issues, especially in the early '70s could be problematic as standards declined.

We do not use a production print. There is, literally, one final approved answer print that will have attached cards signed by DP and / or director. This print is preserved as a basis for all future printings, and that -- specifically -- is what we used. These prints are not fit for distribution and have a sole purpose as reference.

RAH

I have only seen one projected and its one I cannot mention, and it is nothing like any other version.
Again I never stated wright or wrong, just I dislike how it looks.
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post #641 of 650 Old 04-05-2012, 06:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

I have only seen one projected and its one I cannot mention, and it is nothing like any other version.
Again I never stated wright or wrong, just I dislike how it looks.

Just trying to understand what you are saying:

You've seen what projected? You dislike how what looks? Have you seen the Blu-ray? Thanks.
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post #642 of 650 Old 04-06-2012, 04:31 AM
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For the record, I'm aware of seven or eight versions (for lack of a better term) of The Godfather that have seen theatrical service.

A run of around 300 prints were produced by Technicolor in 1972 by the dye transfer method. These were in service for a decade or so, along with other variants.

After GF2 was released, and additional prints were needed, they were produced via auto-select from the OCN at Movielab in Hollywood. This was the first of many situations that placed undue wear and tear on the OCN. Duping stock was not good enough at the time toward the creation of duped printing elements.

More prints were struck at RGB, both from the OCN, re-cut (incorrectly) to A/B rolls, with an additional dissolve added that had never been in the film, along with some dupes.

The final run of pre-restoration prints was struck at deluxe around 1997. Many from the OCN elements, and more via dupes.

All prints produced in 2007 were derived from the restored digital 4k negatives produced via DI.

With the exception of direct positive prints produced for editorial, and a single mute final "density print," which was produced before the final answer print, I'm aware of no other printings.

The separation masters do not match the final cut of the film, as they were produced before the project was locked.

As a side note, there was a set of matrices in service in Europe in 1972, from which overseas dye transfer prints would have been struck, along with various sub-title and foreign track elements. There was also a CRI in foreign service.

RAH
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post #643 of 650 Old 04-06-2012, 04:44 AM
 
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I was talking of ib's in general
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post #644 of 650 Old 04-23-2012, 05:09 PM
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For anyone who's interested, here's a comparison of one deleted scene:




"I have never seen it, but by all accounts it is terrible. However, I have seen the house that it built, and it is terrific." - Michael Caine, on Jaws the Revenge
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post #645 of 650 Old 04-23-2012, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris View Post

The separation masters do not match the final cut of the film, as they were produced before the project was locked.

I've heard enough stories of Hollywood insanity to 'never say never' 200 times over about any imaginable eventuality, especially as concerns matters of post-production and post-release. However, with a case like the above, I'm still compelled to ask, "How the hell does that happen?!"

I don't feel special...
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post #646 of 650 Old 04-23-2012, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectator View Post

I've heard enough stories of Hollywood insanity to 'never say never' 200 times over about any imaginable eventuality, especially as concerns matters of post-production and post-release. However, with a case like the above, I'm still compelled to ask, "How the hell does that happen?!"

Time shortage would be a good guess. Start with C before B is finished so you dont miss D.

Good movies are as rare as an on topic discussion.
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post #647 of 650 Old 04-24-2012, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by spectator View Post

I've heard enough stories of Hollywood insanity to 'never say never' 200 times over about any imaginable eventuality, especially as concerns matters of post-production and post-release. However, with a case like the above, I'm still compelled to ask, "How the hell does that happen?!"

Simple answer is that sep masters actually serve dual purposes, and on occasion, the secondary purpose, which is to end the financial drain of production insurance, comes to the fore.

RAH
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post #648 of 650 Old 04-24-2012, 06:32 AM
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Simple answer is that sep masters actually serve dual purposes, and on occasion, the secondary purpose, which is to end the financial drain of production insurance, comes to the fore.

RAH

Thanks, Robert. Is that just because the striking of the sep. masters, as an event, serves as a milestone identifier in the completion bond agreement?

I don't feel special...
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post #649 of 650 Old 04-24-2012, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by spectator View Post

Thanks, Robert. Is that just because the striking of the sep. masters, as an event, serves as a milestone identifier in the completion bond agreement?

Yes
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post #650 of 650 Old 04-24-2012, 07:54 AM
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Yes

Well, I guess we can say at least they didn't tie it to the negative cutting.

I don't feel special...
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